Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Yesterday It Was Funny.....
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Ian Climacus
 Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by SusanDoris: I'm not quite sure if this is the best place for this article from the New Yorker which I saw elsewhere.
Thank you. I was having a rotten day and this has made it better.
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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fletcher christian
 Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
It's being reported here this morning that the DUP are agreeing to a hard Brexit as part of the deal. I can't see this anywhere in the UK press currently so I'm hoping it's just a fog of nonsense. On the other hand it wouldn't exactly surprise me.
-------------------- 'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe' Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by fletcher christian: It's being reported here this morning that the DUP are agreeing to a hard Brexit as part of the deal. I can't see this anywhere in the UK press currently so I'm hoping it's just a fog of nonsense. On the other hand it wouldn't exactly surprise me.
I wonder how they square free trade access to the Republic with leaving the single market. Have they given any indication that they're open to the idea of a hard Irish border?
-------------------- arse
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
I think the BBC news website had something earlier about the Tory-DUP deal 'not having a deadline', but it seems to have disappeared (the news item I mean).
Mrs. May is going to have rather more to cope with over the next few days than the DUP deal, however important that might be. Some of the less right-wing papers are homing in on the selling-off of social housing some 30 years ago...
IJ
-------------------- Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Mrs. May is going to have rather more to cope with over the next few days than the DUP deal, however important that might be. Some of the less right-wing papers are homing in on the selling-off of social housing some 30 years ago...
IJ
It is true that this couldn't have really come at a worse time. However it can't be good that the unfortunate timing means that ministers cannot be properly held to account in the HoC because it isn't currently fully sitting.
Once again, the British fascination with insane and arcane procedures is meaning that we're coasting down a hill with no breaks and a distracted driver.
-------------------- arse
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Bishops Finger: I think the BBC news website had something earlier about the Tory-DUP deal 'not having a deadline', but it seems to have disappeared (the news item I mean).
I saw that as well. I understand she is betting (probably safely in this case) that the DUP won't vote down the Queen's Speech even if they abstain, and so it should pass, albeit narrowly.
-------------------- Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Alan Cresswell
 Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by mr cheesy: quote: Originally posted by fletcher christian: It's being reported here this morning that the DUP are agreeing to a hard Brexit as part of the deal. I can't see this anywhere in the UK press currently so I'm hoping it's just a fog of nonsense. On the other hand it wouldn't exactly surprise me.
I wonder how they square free trade access to the Republic with leaving the single market. Have they given any indication that they're open to the idea of a hard Irish border?
IIRC, the noises from Downing Street before the election was called (if they have any meaning at all) were that the UK would seek to leave the single market/customs union and retain an open border with Ireland. Without any indication of how on earth they were going to pull off this miracle.
Though, I'm fairly sure that an open border is something Ireland wants as well, and so the EU would not be looking favourably on any deal that doesn't provide that (which doesn't make such a deal possible, just that the sane heads in the EU will be trying to find a solution while the headless chickens in the UK government run around doing fuck all, which at least offers a shred of hope that something might be worked out).
-------------------- Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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fletcher christian
 Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
Posted by Mr Cheesy: quote: I wonder how they square free trade access to the Republic with leaving the single market. Have they given any indication that they're open to the idea of a hard Irish border?
There are I'm sure others who can explain this more succinctly than I. but essentially the DUP play a politics game. The old saying of hunting with the hound and running with the fox could easily be said of how the DUP do politics in order to get what they really want; and therein lies the great question: what dot he DUP want? Essentially there have an almost irrational, paranoid fear of a united Ireland so will do anything (including cloak and dagger partnerships with paramilitaries) to see that done. That has been slowly eroding democracy in NI and consistently chipping away at the GFA. Look at ho they appeal to the diverse approaches to religious sentiment to get voters on side too. You could claim this is part and parcel of politics but when it deliberately divides communities and results in violence (and they are under no illusion that this is what they are doing) you have to question if they should be in any position of leadership.
But I think the main thrust is still to cement the union and destroy any possibility of a united Ireland. Policies have been both passed and resisted in order to make that process either difficult or almost impossible. So for instance, recently they have emphatically opposed an Irish language act and have toyed with linking it to Ulster Scots (which is a dialect rather than a language and even that is questioned by language academics). Things like this help to muddy the waters and create a fog of confusion, so that any Irish language act would not be seen as a similar act to what already exists in the republic. In this sense they are not governing for the people in their care. They are only acting in self preservation. In this light, a hard border makes perfect sense. It is much more difficult to talk about a united Ireland when the border is anything but 'soft'. In talks with the RofI a trade border that treated Ireland as one entity was mooted (with the trade border being somewhere across the Irish sea). That utterly terrified them and I think if they still believe that this might be on the table - even if it is only as open possible prospect - they won't want to back it.
Sorry, that wasn't very succinct at all.
-------------------- 'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe' Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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fletcher christian
 Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
Sorry, I missed the edit.
Essentially there have an almost irrational, paranoid fear of a united Ireland so will do anything (including cloak and dagger partnerships with paramilitaries) to see that done
Should read:
Essentially they have an almost irrational, paranoid fear of a united Ireland so will do anything (including cloak and dagger partnerships with paramilitaries) to see that it [a united Ireland] is not done
-------------------- 'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe' Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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TurquoiseTastic
 Fish of a different color
# 8978
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Posted
The DUP ought to be willing to do a deal with the Conservatives under almost any conditions, because Corbyn would see this as an obvious way to deliver hard Brexit plus no border between NI and RoI - simply reunite Ireland! Unionists shafted = added bonus.
Results - probably not good - "Ulster will fight etc...". [ 16. June 2017, 11:27: Message edited by: TurquoiseTastic ]
Posts: 1092 | From: Hants., UK | Registered: Jan 2005
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fletcher christian
 Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
Posted by Turquoise: quote:
The DUP ought to be willing to do a deal with the Conservatives under almost any conditions, because Corbyn would see this as an obvious way to deliver hard Brexit plus no border between NI and RoI - simply reunite Ireland! Unionists shafted = added bonus.
Results - probably not good - "Ulster will fight etc...".
There's one very large insect in that ointment though. You would need to have the agreement of the current Dail in the RofI and it would need to go to a referendum. There currently isn't a snowball's chance in hell of that ever getting passed here, despite posturing noises barely a few months ago.
-------------------- 'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe' Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Pangolin Guerre
Shipmate
# 18686
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Posted
Looking at Leorning Cniht's calculations, my mind wandered to a hypothetical situation.... Would a caucus revolt against May be possible, and, if so, would that have a meaningful effect on the numbers? LC came up with 326/320. Would four Conservatives defect if May were to stay? Would the Conservatives hold firm to an MP if she were to resign?
Would SF's support give them a one-time pass? I would hope, but I wouldn't be optimistic. Sometimes peace requires a suspension of stated principle.
Posts: 758 | From: 30 arpents de neige | Registered: Nov 2016
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre: Looking at Leorning Cniht's calculations, my mind wandered to a hypothetical situation.... Would a caucus revolt against May be possible, and, if so, would that have a meaningful effect on the numbers? LC came up with 326/320. Would four Conservatives defect if May were to stay? Would the Conservatives hold firm to an MP if she were to resign?
The chances of the Tories bringing down the government because they don't like May are close to zero, I would think. At a resulting election, many of them would be out of a job.
quote: Would SF's support give them a one-time pass? I would hope, but I wouldn't be optimistic. Sometimes peace requires a suspension of stated principle.
Academic discussion because SF have very recently repeated that they'll not be sitting in the HoC.
-------------------- arse
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