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Source: (consider it) Thread: Warnings & scaremongering
rolyn
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# 16840

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:

Even the stopped clocks of the Mail and the Sun are going to be right twice a day. No reason for 'lefty' newsblogs to be any less accurate.

In the wake of Grenfell there is enough material in today's Daily Mail on anti tax-dodging entrepreneur/corporate giant greed, together with May's car crash Newsnight interview, to content the even most ardent of Lefties.

[ 17. June 2017, 12:52: Message edited by: rolyn ]

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Louise
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During WW2 and after councils had the power to requisition houses and often did- taking empty houses/holiday homes for the homeless and those in need. I remember being surprised looking at Dunoon council records for the late 1940s to see how extensive their powers were and how willing they were to use them. I don't know to what extent they still have powers like that for an emergency but it's not at all unprecedented.

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Bishops Finger
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It would be interesting to see if, and how, these wartime powers of requisition still stand, or could be invoked.

As a PR exercise alone, the Government By Headless Chickens could do worse. Let the Saudis sue us, or just cancel our arms deals with them.

Meanwhile, full marks to HM the Queen (and I'm not a particular fan of the royals) for saying her piece.

Along with Mr. Corbyn, her PM-in-Waiting, of course. [Two face]

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Doublethink.
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Parliament could just pass a piece of emergency legislation with a time limit, if existing legislation is insufficient.

One cause of anger seems to be the lack of a central organising point, and central information point.

I don't understand why the council's not done this, it seems like a deficit in their crisis planning. Which is odd, you'd have thought there would be some kind of default plan as a result of the terrorist threat.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Ricardus
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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
It would be interesting to see if, and how, these wartime powers of requisition still stand, or could be invoked.

According to the BBC, it would require emergency legislation.

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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)

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mr cheesy
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The police say that they believe there are 58 missing-presumed-dead, of which 30 are confirmed dead and 16 unidentified.

Given what else he said, I wonder if the unspoken sense of the fire service is that other bodies have been completely burned up in the fire. Maybe we'll never know how many people were there.

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arse

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Boogie

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# 13538

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quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
It would be interesting to see if, and how, these wartime powers of requisition still stand, or could be invoked.

According to the BBC, it would require emergency legislation.
A comment I read today -

quote:
This is just too good an idea to miss. Start with places whose owners are hidden trusts in Panama and Delaware, places financed by dubiously sourced funds, places purchased by people or other entities who have no right of abode and work in the UK / EU.


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Garden. Room. Walk

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leo
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quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
What I don't understand, is why people are still sleeping on the floor of leisure centres ¹, as if the council are somehow unaware of the existence of hotels in London.

---
¹ Guardian

Kensington & Chelsea are mean and would like to rid themselves of people on benefits. A few years ago they moved old people out of nursing homes to Streathem
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leo
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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
One man heckled the Queen, who has friends missing. Feelings are, understandably, running high, but I'd say that the fact that the Queen and Duke of Cambridge have turned up suggests very much that this isn't an event which is being 'down played'.

I guess she has some spare rooms.

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Martin60
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She has helpless privilege and does the very best she can with it. And where are these spare rooms?

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Love wins

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The Midge
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
She has helpless privilege and does the very best she can with it. And where are these spare rooms?

Buck Palace has one or two.
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mr cheesy
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There are credible yet unoffical sources which suggest there are more than 160 named and missing victims. Local people appear to think it is more than 200 missing.

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arse

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Boogie

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This is how people with money and power use the law to shut people up.

How much longer are we going to allow money to be king? 😢

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Martin60
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quote:
Originally posted by The Midge:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
She has helpless privilege and does the very best she can with it. And where are these spare rooms?

Buck Palace has one or two.
No it hasn't. Any more than your place has. Or mine. Not unless we ALL were ALL Christian about it.

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Love wins

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The Midge
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
quote:
Originally posted by The Midge:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
She has helpless privilege and does the very best she can with it. And where are these spare rooms?

Buck Palace has one or two.
No it hasn't. Any more than your place has. Or mine. Not unless we ALL were ALL Christian about it.
HRM is the head of the Church of England.

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On other days you are the windscreen.

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ThunderBunk

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# 15579

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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
No it hasn't. Any more than your place has. Or mine. Not unless we ALL were ALL Christian about it.

That's an eye-wateringly false comparison, as any analysis beyond "my house is a building containing rooms with domestic purposes; Buckingham Palace is a building containing rooms with domestic purposes; therefore my house and Buckingham Palace are functionally identical" will prove. The royal household, however you define it, has a massive surplus of rooms, and could decamp at a moment's notice to Windsor, leaving the entirety of Buckingham Palace to be used to house those made homeless by the fire for as long as it is needed. This is the point of the whole thing: privilege creates options which poverty denies. The fallacy of the neocapitalist nonsense that has been poured all over this is that ownership conveys divine right, and must remain inviolate. Neither occupation nor ownership is inviolate, and where there is a clear need not countermanded by the clear need of the current occupiers, need can overcome ownership. Whoever royal palaces actually belong to. I'll leave that one to lawyers and materialist Marxists to argue out. Fewer platitudes would help, though.

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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".

Foolish, potentially deranged witterings

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Anglican't
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quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk (emphasis supplied):
Neither occupation nor ownership is inviolate, and where there is a clear need not countermanded by the clear need of the current occupiers, need can overcome ownership.

Is there actually a need? I'm open to correction but I've not read anywhere that the Grenfell victims can't be re-housed using existing public resources.
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ThunderBunk

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And now the richest council in the country needs government aid. Kensington is Burundi.

If anyone doubted that the world has become self-satirising, here, surely, is proof.

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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".

Foolish, potentially deranged witterings

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Doublethink.
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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk (emphasis supplied):
Neither occupation nor ownership is inviolate, and where there is a clear need not countermanded by the clear need of the current occupiers, need can overcome ownership.

Is there actually a need? I'm open to correction but I've not read anywhere that the Grenfell victims can't be re-housed using existing public resources.
They could be if the authorities got their arse in gear.

It is estimated it will take one to two years for permenant housing. On the basis of my experience of supporting clients to get council housing, I think two years is optimistic and will involve screwing over a different set of vulnerable people.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Doublethink.
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Emergency council housing usually involves being stuck in a crowded hostel or B&B - with little in the way of cooking facilities and the environment in poor repair.

K&C have also caught flack for trying to place people who had just barely escaped with their lives from a tower block fire, in other tower blocks.

[ 18. June 2017, 12:06: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Martin60
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quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
No it hasn't. Any more than your place has. Or mine. Not unless we ALL were ALL Christian about it.

That's an eye-wateringly false comparison, as any analysis beyond "my house is a building containing rooms with domestic purposes; Buckingham Palace is a building containing rooms with domestic purposes; therefore my house and Buckingham Palace are functionally identical" will prove. The royal household, however you define it, has a massive surplus of rooms, and could decamp at a moment's notice to Windsor, leaving the entirety of Buckingham Palace to be used to house those made homeless by the fire for as long as it is needed. This is the point of the whole thing: privilege creates options which poverty denies. The fallacy of the neocapitalist nonsense that has been poured all over this is that ownership conveys divine right, and must remain inviolate. Neither occupation nor ownership is inviolate, and where there is a clear need not countermanded by the clear need of the current occupiers, need can overcome ownership. Whoever royal palaces actually belong to. I'll leave that one to lawyers and materialist Marxists to argue out. Fewer platitudes would help, though.
Somebody else do something.

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Love wins

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ThunderBunk

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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Somebody else do something.

If they are better equipped than I am, yes. There is nothing to be gained by a campaign to tote every bale on earth.

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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".

Foolish, potentially deranged witterings

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Martin60
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And Her Majesty is better equipped than you how?

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Love wins

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ThunderBunk

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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
And Her Majesty is better equipped than you how?

Massive wealth. And having a house on the doorstep of Grenfell Tower.

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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".

Foolish, potentially deranged witterings

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Martin60
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Kensington council should just requisition hotel rooms in its bailiwick backed up by the government. May should be ordering them to. Meanwhile forensically dissect Grenfell, retrieve the 100+ bodies, compensate the survivors and individual estates to the tune of a million a piece - which will motivate arson in this foul world admittedly - demolish the ruin and build a thousand year quality, green, self-sufficient arcology for all the borough's poor and working class and more on the site and tear down all the other blocks when done.

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Love wins

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Martin60
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quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
And Her Majesty is better equipped than you how?

Massive wealth. And having a house on the doorstep of Grenfell Tower.
Neither Balmoral nor Sandringham are any where near.

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Love wins

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rolyn
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Meanwhile forensically dissect Grenfell, retrieve the 100+ bodies, compensate the survivors and individual estates to the tune of a million a piece - which will motivate arson in this foul world admittedly - demolish the ruin and build a thousand year quality, green, self-sufficient arcology for all the borough's poor and working class and more on the site and tear down all the other blocks when done.

And track down those who ordered the fixing of fire-risk material to exterior walls. Presumably in the the belief it wouldn't catch alight on the outside of a building. Or more likely is the case they didn't give a shit as we'd already seen what happened in Saudi Arabia.

[ 18. June 2017, 15:30: Message edited by: rolyn ]

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leo
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quote:
Originally posted by The Midge:
HRM is the head of the Church of England.

No, JC is head, she's 'supreme governor'.

--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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The Midge
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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by The Midge:
HRM is the head of the Church of England.

No, JC is head, she's 'supreme governor'.
Jeremy?

--------------------
Some days you are the fly.
On other days you are the windscreen.

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Zappa
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quote:
Originally posted by The Midge:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by The Midge:
HRM is the head of the Church of England.

No, JC is head, she's 'supreme governor'.
Jeremy?
[Killing me]

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rolyn
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Easy mistake to make, he was offering a large number of free gifts in his Election Campaign.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Martin60
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# 368

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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Exploding fridges can be pretty spectacular and electrical fires move FAST (like a quarter of the speed of light) in to the wall, behind reach of the sprinkler: this fire went from internal to external in a flash. Apparently, anecdotally, no one has died in a fire where (one-at-a-time heat activated) sprinklers were activated (however I've seen one figure of 65% reduction), but I wouldn't be surprised that that would break down in a situation like this where inflammable polyethylene lined cladding, polystyrene insulation and UPVC with nylon window frames are involved. All of that has GOT to stop. One can imagine a situation where rooms are soused by sprinklers but the burning cladding still takes the windows out and fills rooms with hot toxic smoke. Eventually the water will run out and as mark said, wet telephone directories burn.

How about ensuring external layers are irrigated too?

I should have included this at the time, it has resurfaced, the electricity supply was faulty for four years and probably detonated the freezer in the small hours. All part of the catastrophe waiting to happen. That couldn't have happened in the private Goldfinger designed Trellick Tower in the same council district.

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Love wins

Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
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# 368

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I just wanted to acknowledge that all of the issues that the tenants complained about were symptomatic of the (tautological) anti-democratic capitalism that killed them.

The more I think about it the more horrified I am at that not being at the forefront of my thinking and comments from the beginning.

So I apologize unreservedly to all I offended with that lack.

--------------------
Love wins

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