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Source: (consider it) Thread: What should we do about 'our own' terrorists?
mdijon
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quote:
Originally posted by Russ:
Is it so inconceivable to you that the concept of "Jewish culture" could possibly have meaning ?

The concept of culture has a meaning that doesn't involve statistics on the frequency of cut-throat capitalists. That's not what culture is.

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ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon

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Gamaliel
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You really can't see it, can you, Kaplan?

Read what I write, not what you think I've written.

I have written that we are constrained and conditioned by our culture and context.

We all agree on that.

What I have not said is that this means we are completely incapable of independent thought or action.

In Charlemagne's context that means that whilst he could have certainly shown clemency, introducing a more pluralist religious policy was not an option open to him at that particular time and context.

That's not contradictory or binary.

That's simply an historical observation and one you appear to wish to elide.

Equally, in Cromwell's case, because of changes in society, culture and conditions, he was able to exercise a greater degree of pluralism than would have been available to his predecessors - but not as much as those who came after him.

I really don't see why that's so difficult a concept to comprehend.

It's not me who is being binary. You are. And the irony is, you can't see it.

Don't flatter yourself in terms of the volume of my posts. I post quickly. I type fast. I shoot from the hip.

If I've posted inveterately here it's because I'm exasperated by your simplistic, binary, a-historical and untenable arguments.

I'd call you to Hell but you'd be flattered by that.

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Praise the Lord for He is kind.

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Gamaliel
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Also, if you'd read my posts properly, you'll have seen that I've speculated that not even Charlemagne - most of the time - would have considered it legitimate to kill people simply because they were heathen of heretics.

I've posted this a number of times.

I wouldn't be surprised if he'd have executed hundreds of Saxon 'rebels' had the Saxons already been Christians or Christianised when he annexed Saxony.

I doubt very much that he randomly executed any Jews, Muslim or pagan who happened to be traveling within his borders.

Equally with Cromwell, other than the Jesuit priests and the monks and nuns found within the walls of Drogheda and Wexford, those who perished there weren't killed simply because they were Catholics.

It's not an exact analogy, but it would be like saying that the very Catholic population of Nagasaki was nuked for being Catholic rather than for being Japanese.

Nobody is saying that the NT 'requires' or 'commands' rulers to execute heathen or heretics, all that's been said is that to a certain extent rulers like Charlemagne and Cromwell would have understood their 'God-given' authority in a way that could encompass that at times.

If your world-view is one of, 'God gave them as stubble to our swords' - then it's not hard to see how they could take things to that kind of conclusion.

They brought that world-view with them when approaching the scriptures.

We might not like that, but that's how they thought.

You have not proven otherwise. Because you can't and all the historical evidence is against you.

Please do me the courtesy of reading what I write and not what you think I write. And do yourself a favour by reading for comprehension. That way you'd score fewer own goals and stop revealing your own ignorance.

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Let us with a gladsome mind
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Martin60
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G., why is it so hard for you to understand, the KC Sunshine hermeneutic shines through all of time and shone in the eyes of Charlemagne and all those that deliberately chose to look away since Constantine.

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Love wins

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Golden Key
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{tangent}

Martin--

I'll see your KC & the Sunshine Band, and raise you "Let The Sun Shine In", from "Hair".
[Biased]

{end tangent}

[ 28. August 2017, 08:22: Message edited by: Golden Key ]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Jamat
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quote:
Gamaliel: the irony is, you can't see it.

The irony actually is that you lost the argument back about page 10 because you refuse to admit the implication of what you assert. You want to argue the defining power of culture, but then you deny that that argument actually excuses behaviour which in no sense ever, by any definition could be genuinely Christian. Sorry..you lost.
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Martin60
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
It's a matter of education. Nobody with a liberal arts degree or even 'A' levels in English literature and history could think in such a faulty way.

Ha ha ha ...

I now await notification from Jamat and Kaplan as to what particular qualifications they have and their reactions to such 'pomposity' ...

Hmmmm. Early days I suppose. KC, like Russ, can't stoop to respond to me directly, but Jamat should.

Anybody aware of any contemporary academic or writer who thinks like them?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. You'd think that anyone with a liberal arts education or a non-savant medico-scientific one who had such an anti-intellectual, irrational hermeneutic would proclaim the cradle of their thinking and be able to find a single contemporary intellectual who agreed.

GK. I was THERE! I seen 'em. NEKKID! In the age of Aquarius. Backlit by the light of KC's Sunshine Hermeneutic!!!

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Love wins

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Gamaliel
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
quote:
Gamaliel: the irony is, you can't see it.

The irony actually is that you lost the argument back about page 10 because you refuse to admit the implication of what you assert. You want to argue the defining power of culture, but then you deny that that argument actually excuses behaviour which in no sense ever, by any definition could be genuinely Christian. Sorry..you lost.
Nonsense.

Just because you appear unable to deal with paradox doesn't mean the rest of us can't.

Both KC and yourself ratchet everything up into such black-and-white terms that you appear unable to appreciate that the rest of us see the world in shades of grey.

If I've lost any argument it's through trying to argue with people who are colour-blind or who are unable to make out chiaroscuro because their theological lenses won't allow them to.

There is no argument to lose. You don't even have an argument.

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Praise the Lord for He is kind.

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Gamaliel
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To return to the OP ...

What's the best strategy?

To pretend or deny that Christian individuals, groups or organisations can be capable of the most heinous wrongs?

'Oh, they couldn't possibly have been Christians in the first place ...'

Or to recognise that things can and do go badly wrong and to seek to address and redress that? Which yes, involves hermeneutics - among other things.

Both approaches work towards the same goal, which is prevention.

We may have different starting points but the same end in view at least.

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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Jamat
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quote:
Gamaliel: deal with paradox
Sorry Mate, this is not paradox, this is a denial of an obvious corollary of your argument.
I repeat, you lost this argument 10 pages back.

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Jamat ..in utmost longditude, where Heaven
with Earth and ocean meets, the setting sun slowly descended, and with right aspect
Against the eastern gate of Paradise. (Milton Paradise Lost Bk iv)

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mdijon
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
...I repeat...

Sorry to selectively quote, but it does sum up a lot of this thread.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
...I repeat...

Sorry to selectively quote, but it does sum up a lot of this thread.
[Killing me]
Pretty much why I stopped bothering with it awhile ago.

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Hallellou, hallellou

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Gamaliel
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More fool me for continuing with and making 'come-backs' when it had become obvious that neither Jamat or KC are prepared to read for comprehension or even listen to alternative views.

Rather than engage with what myself and others have been trying to say they cover up their ears and go 'la la la la' whilst trying to tar me with the same binary brush they use to brush their teeth in the morning, teeth that are located in a somewhat different anatomical location to other people's.

They apparently cannot distinguish between varying degrees of social and cultural influence and conditioning from being trapped in a deterministic way by the prevailing zeitgeist.

They clearly don't understand the social and historical forces at work between the time of Charlemagne and the time of Cromwell nor those between Cromwell's time and our own.

Nor do they have any inkling of the complex processes involved in reading and interpreting texts.

Worse, because ignorance is excusable to a certain extent, they have misrepresented my arguments and twisted my words.

For that I call them both to Hell.

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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Martin60
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They can't help it G. They are their uneducated, old, unscholarly, incorrigible hermeneutics. As a man thinketh, so is he. In grinding all grist to his mill down to chaff.

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Love wins

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Gamaliel
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That's more deterministic than I've been accused of being, Martin60.

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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Martin60
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I should hope so G. That's why they are so forgivable. In fact there's nothing to forgive. Only understand. The wind changed a long time ago.

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Love wins

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Gamaliel
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Hmmmm ...

Well, Jamat is 'uneducated' - at least in a liberal arts type sense it seems to me. Kaplan isn't. He has less of an excuse. So yes, there are things to forgive.

Just as I've done stupid stuff too and am in need of forgiveness. Verbosity. Repetition ... even assuming certain people are capable of listening and reading for comprehension ...

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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Jamat
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quote:
Well, Jamat is 'uneducated'
Sigh! I certainly am not prepared to be educated by you. However, I think it a mistake take anything personally. It is all just a matter of following the trail till you find the rabbit. Take a cooky. By the time you finish eating it you'll forget all about this conversation. [Smile]

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Jamat ..in utmost longditude, where Heaven
with Earth and ocean meets, the setting sun slowly descended, and with right aspect
Against the eastern gate of Paradise. (Milton Paradise Lost Bk iv)

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Gamaliel
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The problem isn't that you are unprepared to be educated by me, you are unprepared to be educated aboard Ship by anyone who doesn't hold to your untenably wooden interpretation of scripture.

Now where's the biscuit (cookie) tin?

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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Martin60
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quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Hmmmm ...

Well, Jamat is 'uneducated' - at least in a liberal arts type sense it seems to me. Kaplan isn't. He has less of an excuse. So yes, there are things to forgive.

Just as I've done stupid stuff too and am in need of forgiveness. Verbosity. Repetition ... even assuming certain people are capable of listening and reading for comprehension ...

I'm sure KC has a the excuse of a conservative background like Anne Coulter: "I'm a Christian first and a mean-spirited, bigoted conservative second...". I think she gets the order wrong, but hey, don't we all. But that doesn't excuse the lack of basic intellect and any scholarship in his hermeneutic once delivered. Even Coulter wouldn't argue that absurdity.

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Love wins

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Gamaliel
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Conservative Christianity is one thing, and I'm pretty conservative theologically, repeated failure to read for comprehension is something else again.

It was beginning to look like deliberate obfuscation and misrepresentation. Once or twice I could overlook but arguing that black = white and 2+2 = 5 isn't something I can stomach.

Hence the Hell-call.

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

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Russ
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quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
The concept of culture has a meaning that doesn't involve statistics on the frequency of cut-throat capitalists. That's not what culture is.

Please do expand on what you think culture is, if it's not something that could conceivably be measured by statistics.

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Wish everyone well; the enemy is not people, the enemy is wrong ideas

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mdijon
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture

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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon

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Kaplan Corday
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quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
For that I call them both to Hell.

If you want to post in Hell and call me names, then by all means go ahead.

Knock yourself out.

Go nuts.

May heaven speed your keyboard, and may the letting off of steam make you feel better afterwards.

You will pardon me (or perhaps you won't) if I decline to reciprocate, but I have better things to do.

It is not immediately apparent why you have become so paranoically and hyperbolically reactive, so passionately involved at a personal level over what is, when all is said and done, a fairly abstruse issue.

After all, we more or less agree on most of the points involved, but it still seems to press your buttons.

Perhaps it is an example of what Freud called "the narcissism of small differences".

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Gamaliel
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Or being driven to distraction by people who don't or can't read for comprehension and who persist in arguing a-historical points?

[Biased] [Razz]

But yes, I do feel better for having vented in Hell.

Carry on, sergeant ...

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

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Martin60
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quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Conservative Christianity is one thing, and I'm pretty conservative theologically, repeated failure to read for comprehension is something else again.

It was beginning to look like deliberate obfuscation and misrepresentation. Once or twice I could overlook but arguing that black = white and 2+2 = 5 isn't something I can stomach.

Hence the Hell-call.

Conservative how?

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Love wins

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Gamaliel
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Conservative in the sense that I assent to the historic Creeds and believe in the Trinity, the Resurrection etc ...

Not conservative in the sense that I am a biblical literalist or fundamentalist in Jamat terms.

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

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Martin60
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Ah. Me too. We share the same last line in the sand.

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Love wins

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Gamaliel
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Or line in the water?

[Biased]

I think we're probably both dotty, too.

No doubt Jamat and Kaplan will think so, bless 'em.

--------------------
Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

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Eliab
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Kaplan Corday

Since there is a Hell thread on which you could respond if you wanted to, it would be appreciated if you took either express or implied accusations of paranoia and narcissism there.

Same goes for everyone else. Hell's there so that if you want to get personal, you can. If you don't want to use that facility, fine, but then don't make personal insinuations in Purgatory.

Now that there is a Hell thread arising from this very discussion, and as posting here takes exactly as many key-presses as posting there does, there's no excuse for testing the limits of personal comment here. Take it to Hell.

Eliab
Purgatory host

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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

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Clutch
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quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Conservative in the sense that I assent to the historic Creeds and believe in the Trinity, the Resurrection etc ...

Not conservative in the sense that I am a biblical literalist or fundamentalist in Jamat terms.

So do I Gamaliel, but I don't consider that "conservative" Theologically speaking that's orthodox.Small o used on purpose.

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Proud liberal socialist,proud progressive Anglo-Catholic and proud to be a conservative's bane.

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Martin60
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quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Or line in the water?

[Biased]

I think we're probably both dotty, too.

No doubt Jamat and Kaplan will think so, bless 'em.

Just join up the dots ....

Clutch is right of course. We're 'o'. Not 'c'!

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Love wins

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Curiosity killed ...

Ship's Mug
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But orthodox is not always seen as properly Christian; do you remember when the liberal Christians on the Ship were called to Hell for not being proper Christians? That OP quoted something I'd said, which I had very carefully made sure was a properly orthodox Christian statement.

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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat

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mr cheesy
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quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
But orthodox is not always seen as properly Christian; do you remember when the liberal Christians on the Ship were called to Hell for not being proper Christians? That OP quoted something I'd said, which I had very carefully made sure was a properly orthodox Christian statement.

The root problem here is that Evangelicalism is an idea that has only really been around for a few hundred years but (some) Evangelical believers absolutely believe that it is the be-all-and-end-all of all Christianity and therefore that they can measure the "soundness" of everyone else against their own standard(s).

Which just seems mental to anyone else.

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arse

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Gamaliel
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Hence my exasperation which Kaplan puts down to paranoia and narcicism on my part.

It can't possibly be anything on his part, can it?

I mean, don't we realise he has a time-machine and has used it a few times to put the Apostles straight on a thing or two?

I mean, it's so obvious that everyone should have interpreted the scriptures in an IVP type way from the outset ...

Why can't the rest of us see that?

--------------------
Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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Barnabas62
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Gamaliel

What Eliab said.

Kindly take these kinds of personal comments to the hell thread you started.

Barnabas62
Purgatory Host

[ 01. September 2017, 08:48: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
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# 3330

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quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Hence my exasperation which Kaplan puts down to paranoia and narcicism on my part.

It can't possibly be anything on his part, can it?

Mm, but you'd have to admit that it is part-and-parcel of a particular worldview, mindset, hermeneutic - right?

You're asking them to deny something fundamental about their whole outlook.

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arse

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
But orthodox is not always seen as properly Christian; do you remember when the liberal Christians on the Ship were called to Hell for not being proper Christians?

Oh bugger. I missed that one. But then these days I'm happy to go with Improper Christian. They're only labels, they mean what the person using them takes them to mean (yeah, I know, it's a bit Humpty Dumpty isn't it?, but if Christian means homophobia, right-wing politics and fanatical support for the modern state of Israel to someone, it'd be a bit misleading for me to describe myself as Christian to them. It's rapidly losing its usefulness as a label because it means so many different and contradictory things).

Call me what you like, I say to these people, you're not going to make me believe a load of hateful tosh by labelling it "Christianity", however I self-define.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:

Call me what you like, I say to these people, you're not going to make me believe a load of hateful tosh by labelling it "Christianity", however I self-define.

It seems to me that all flavours of Christianity are basically assertions and one has to decide whether one is going to agree or disagree with them - corporately and individually.

The irony for me is that there often seems more openness to changes of behaviour on DH subjects from those who see themselves firmly within forms of Traditional Christianity* than from those within relatively recent movements.

I conclude that for some Christians, their sense of identity is about belonging to a community of faith, so it isn't really a great threat to admit that ideas and practices have changed, that mistakes were made in the past, that NOW is the time to embrace and welcome rather than push away excluded people and groups.

Whereas for Evangelicals it often feels like the most important thing is holding to correct ideas and theology (which is nonsense in a way, given that there are so many different evangelical theologies - which is the "correct" one?) even when they make no rational or logical sense and are clearly unfit to meet the challenges of the present and future.

* of course this is an over-generalisation - some traditional Christians are horrible.

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arse

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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Yes, but there's a faultline within evangelicalism, I think. Not long ago I reckon most evangelicals in the UK would have happily signed up to the Nashville Statement, but there are plenty now who are as appalled by it as any wishy-washy liberal compromising type who's sold himself out to the contemporary secular worldview etc. etc. like yours truly here.

And I think it is a faultine rather than a spectrum. At least, it's a gorge with a bloody great cliff on one side, no matter how gentle the slope on the other; for the people on the cliff it's their view or nothing.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gamaliel
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# 812

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Hence my exasperation which Kaplan puts down to paranoia and narcicism on my part.

It can't possibly be anything on his part, can it?

Mm, but you'd have to admit that it is part-and-parcel of a particular worldview, mindset, hermeneutic - right?

You're asking them to deny something fundamental about their whole outlook.

Or to see sense?

No, but you're right and I've been pushing against a closed door and getting frustrated when it hasn't even begun to creak open.

This is about fixed ideas and entrenched positions not people. So apologies for the Hellishness here rather than in the Hell thread created for the purpose.

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
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# 368

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quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
I feel a bit inadequate responding with only one post after your six (at last count) since my last post which specifically name me - I don't know when you find time to eat!

Perhaps I should feel flattered....


quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Yes, Cromwell would have been aware of the peaceful witness of the Quakers in his own day and that of the Anabaptists in previous generations.

Amongst other factors, and could have therefore have acted differently.

quote:
We are constrained by our conditioning but that does not remove our culpability.

Charlemagne couldn't have introduced a full Parliamentary democracy in the modern pluralist sense. That option wasn't open to him. He could have shown clemency towards his enemies. That option was and he didn't take it.

You are contradicting yourself.

You want to have your cake (given their historical circumstances, Charlemagne, Cromwell et al could not have even conceived of acting differently from how they did) and eat it (they were culpable because they could have conceived and acted differently).

You have regressed obdurately and immediately to your besetting sin of rigid binary positioning.

And just as an exercise in nostalgia to remind you of your shameful evangelical past, here is a verse to reinforce the rebuke: "As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly" Proverbs 26:11).

It is not a matter of two alternative positions, ie Charlemagne and Cromwell should have acted like 21st century liberal pluralists, versus Charlemagne and Cromwell were irrevocably locked into the limitations of their prevailing worldview.

They were both in a position to understand, on the basis of examples in church history, other Christians, and Scripture, the principle that Christians are not intended to kill heretics and heathen per se, ie simply on the grounds that they were heretics and heathen.

Show me.

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Love wins

Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
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# 368

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quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
you can state confidently that there are no hermeneutics in play in these situations, can you?

Of course there are hermeneutics in play in such situations - really shitty, inadequate hermeneutics, with all the exegetical sophistication of deriving guidance from the dimensions of the Great Pyramid on the basis of Isaiah 19;19-20, or deliberately drinking poison on the basis of Mark 16:18, or going out and slaughtering the reprobate because God has "told" you to do so through one of the more lurid passages in Revelation.

Your elusive NT scholars whom we don't know about (untheologians?) but who definitely believe the NT teaches/requires/allows the killing of heretics and heathen, are beginning to look more and more like the "...little man upon the stair/A little man who wasn't there".

As elusive as the C9th and C17th scholars saying otherwise.

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Love wins

Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gamaliel
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Meanwhile, if it helps, Kaplan and I are having some amicable off-site exchanges. We are pals really. But I will keep away from posting Hellishly here.

I do feel better for having vented in Hell, even though neither Jamat or Kaplan have joined me there.

But I do wonder whether this thread has run its course ... it probably had pages ago ...

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
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# 3330

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Yes, but there's a faultline within evangelicalism, I think. Not long ago I reckon most evangelicals in the UK would have happily signed up to the Nashville Statement, but there are plenty now who are as appalled by it as any wishy-washy liberal compromising type who's sold himself out to the contemporary secular worldview etc. etc. like yours truly here.

And I think it is a faultine rather than a spectrum. At least, it's a gorge with a bloody great cliff on one side, no matter how gentle the slope on the other; for the people on the cliff it's their view or nothing.

Mmm. I'm not quite sure how to order my thoughts, but I think I both agree and disagree with you here.

I think there is a danger of the mindset illustrated here with Evangelicals - but also applicable to others - which goes beyond simply being on this or that side of the issues.

If every Evangelical suddenly rejected this statement from Nashville, I'm not sure that'd change much if they continued with the same mindset - viz that they measure "rightness" of other religion by their own arbitrary standards, where their own ideas are elevated to being the "obvious, inarguable, simple reading of scripture" and where logical and theological inconsistencies are simply brushed away.

The reality is that the of locus of the centre of truth in Christianity is not for Evangelicals to say. When one argues with an Evangelical idea (which is to say little more than "an idea held by a group of Evangelicals"), one is not arguing with God, or scripture, or the central doctrine of Christianity - because those things rarely overlap and things are not central just because someone asserts that they are from their viewpoint and therefore must be.

So, tbh, I'd be pretty wary of an Evangelical who stood up and said that it was "obvious from scripture that women should be preachers" just as much as the one who stands up and says "it is biblical that women shouldn't preach in church" because that's turning the argument back onto the Evangelical to be the arbitrator.

That's not accepting the stupid, tedious argument that all ideas are equal, that all cultural practices need to be accepted, that Nazism is a perfectly acceptable idea - or any of that crap.

But it is to say "I don't really care what you think" when the Evangelical puts out yet another boring statement as if what they farted out yesterday as any theological importance. It is to reject the idea that the centre of Christianity is simply an area that is asserted by an Evangelical. It is to refuse to participate in the same stupid dance articulated by evangelicals that says accepting gays or trans kids is simply about whether or not the dance-moves meet the approval of their self-appointed leaders.

I'm done with this whole conversation that there is an objective truth on what the bible says about trans or gays or male/female leaders - and that we all have to listen open-mouthed to Evangelicals as if they're rational beings talking logical and theological sense.

Most of the time they're not.

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arse

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Kaplan Corday
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# 16119

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In my private email exchange with Gamaliel I asked whether he inferred that I was accusing him of narcissism or paranoia in any strict clinical sense, thereby implying that he suffered from some sort of mental deficiency.

He assured me that such was not the case, and that he was not offended.

I find it difficult to believe that anybody could fail to understand the employment of the term paranoic in its common polemical sense (analogous to schizophrenic, which is found from time to time on the Ship), or could be so ignorant of the cultural and psychological context of Freud's "the narcissism of small differences" as to imagine that it was some sort of casual personal insult on the same level as "you're a loony".

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mr cheesy
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:

I find it difficult to believe that anybody could fail to understand the employment of the term paranoic in its common polemical sense (analogous to schizophrenic, which is found from time to time on the Ship), or could be so ignorant of the cultural and psychological context of Freud's "the narcissism of small differences" as to imagine that it was some sort of casual personal insult on the same level as "you're a loony".

So: "I'm very sorry you were offended, it was due to your obvious ignorance.."

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arse

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Eliab
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# 9153

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quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
In my private email exchange with Gamaliel I asked whether he inferred that I was accusing him of narcissism or paranoia in any strict clinical sense, thereby implying that he suffered from some sort of mental deficiency.

He assured me that such was not the case, and that he was not offended.

I find it difficult to believe that anybody could fail to understand the employment of the term paranoic in its common polemical sense (analogous to schizophrenic, which is found from time to time on the Ship), or could be so ignorant of the cultural and psychological context of Freud's "the narcissism of small differences" as to imagine that it was some sort of casual personal insult on the same level as "you're a loony".

As a human being and fellow Christian, my heart is warmed by this sudden outbreak of good-will.

As a host, my concern is to facilitate open discussion within the rules of this site, which means that:

1) Anything that looks like a personal attack gets said in Hell, or nowhere. I can't speak for the other Purgatory hosts, but in evaluating the nature of an apparently personal comment my cultural ignorance should be presumed to the same extent as my lack of ability to read minds.

2) Questioning hostly warnings or rulings is done in the Styx, not on the thread in which the warning appears. Anything more than a simple acknowledgment (or, on the rare occasions that someone is so minded, a brief apology) risks de-railing the thread.

Eliab
Purgatory host

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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

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Martin60
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# 368

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quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
In my private email exchange with Gamaliel I asked whether he inferred that I was accusing him of narcissism or paranoia in any strict clinical sense, thereby implying that he suffered from some sort of mental deficiency.

He assured me that such was not the case, and that he was not offended.

I find it difficult to believe that anybody could fail to understand the employment of the term paranoic in its common polemical sense (analogous to schizophrenic, which is found from time to time on the Ship), or could be so ignorant of the cultural and psychological context of Freud's "the narcissism of small differences" as to imagine that it was some sort of casual personal insult on the same level as "you're a loony".

You either mean paranoiac or paranoid. Noun or adjective. Which? Schizophrenic is, appropriately, both. Whatever happened to schizophrene?

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Love wins

Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gamaliel
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# 812

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No, I wasn't offended but I could understand the Hostly warning.

That applied to me too.

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged



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