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» Ship of Fools   » Community discussion   » Purgatory   » Church, drinking cultures, and the exclusion of teetotalers (Page 3)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Church, drinking cultures, and the exclusion of teetotalers
ExclamationMark
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Alcohol is part of life for most people. It's all around us but that doesn't mean we have to accept society's norms.

It's still a big deal for lots of people as regards those of us who don't drink. We're somehow just a little bit strange - ok great to have along because we can drive but a little strange like the men who don't like "the footy".

Sadly I don't see the same level of concern for those who struggle with drinking. I suspect that the level of drinking amongst those who go to church is pretty similar to that of those who don't - in which case where is the church leading the way?

The other thing is the cost alongside the expectation to join in. How many people end up struggling financially simply because they want to keep in the crowd in the bar?

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Leorning Cniht
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quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

Sadly I don't see the same level of concern for those who struggle with drinking. I suspect that the level of drinking amongst those who go to church is pretty similar to that of those who don't - in which case where is the church leading the way?

There's a large assumption in there. You assume that generally lower alcohol consumption is the way in which the church should lead.

I don't agree.

Excessive alcohol consumption (to the point that you're getting drunk and behaving in a foolish manner) is a moral issue. If you find yourself regretting something you did last night whilst under the influence, you're drinking too much. That is a moral issue.

Alcohol dependency is a moral issue.

Alcohol consumption below that level is not a moral issue. If you're drinking a few pints every night, what you have is a health issue and not a moral issue. You might equally bemoan the fact that churchgoers don't eat noticeably fewer pies than non-churchgoers.

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Baptist Trainfan
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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
Alcohol consumption below that level is not a moral issue. If you're drinking a few pints every night, what you have is a health issue and not a moral issue.

I don't quite agree - and I don't think EM, from his post above, would either.

For surely feeling pressurised to spend cash one can ill-afford in order to be accepted socially is a moral issue? And also the demand on finite healthcare resources made by people whose health has in some way been compromised by alcohol?

(BTW I'm not a teetotaller, just to be clear).

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Boogie

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There are also plenty of functional alcoholics. They drink every day but are perfectly able to function in life. But this is not harmless, they are a worry to their families and will become a burden to the Heath service.

Many people think they are drinking responsibly when they are not. They make excuses to themselves and others to have another drink and they think about alcohol far more than is healthy, they are addicted.

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ExclamationMark
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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

Sadly I don't see the same level of concern for those who struggle with drinking. I suspect that the level of drinking amongst those who go to church is pretty similar to that of those who don't - in which case where is the church leading the way?

There's a large assumption in there. You assume that generally lower alcohol consumption is the way in which the church should lead.

I don't agree.

Excessive alcohol consumption (to the point that you're getting drunk and behaving in a foolish manner) is a moral issue. If you find yourself regretting something you did last night whilst under the influence, you're drinking too much. That is a moral issue.

Alcohol dependency is a moral issue.

Alcohol consumption below that level is not a moral issue. If you're drinking a few pints every night, what you have is a health issue and not a moral issue. You might equally bemoan the fact that churchgoers don't eat noticeably fewer pies than non-churchgoers.

What's the function of alcohol?
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Baptist Trainfan
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From my point of view, purely to add taste and body. I like good wine and cider; if non-alcoholic variants tasted the same as their alcoholic counterparts I would happily drink them, in fact it would be a boon as I could drink more than a single glass when I go out for a meal!

But - to my palate at least - they are far inferior.

[ 27. July 2017, 09:32: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

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Anselmina
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quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
What's the function of alcohol?

To be enjoyed, presumably.

Of course, when the function of alcohol becomes, for an individual, the whole point of their existence, or the consumption of such that without it they can't get through the day, that is obviously unhealthy. As with anything we consume or do which is pleasurable and which becomes disproportionately important and detrimental to us. Like acquiring wealth, property, relationships etc, or hobbies, or food, or sports.

I guess one of the specific difficulties with alcohol, however, is the fact that it chemically changes the body, and some people's chemistry can't cope with it in various degrees.

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Baptist Trainfan
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According to Psalm 104:15, wine is a gift from God which can "gladden the human heart".
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betjemaniac
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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
From my point of view, purely to add taste and body. I like good wine and cider; if non-alcoholic variants tasted the same as their alcoholic counterparts I would happily drink them, in fact it would be a boon as I could drink more than a single glass when I go out for a meal!

But - to my palate at least - they are far inferior.

I'd agree with that - my consumption of non-alcoholic alcoholic drinks has gone through the roof the last couple of summers. Why? Because normally I drink bitter or mild (or wine), I only like lager on hot summer days. They've *finally* cracked non-alcoholic lager (Becks Blue is ok, but the San Miguel one is great).

If I was a year round lager drinker I'd drink non-alcoholic lager year round. Unfortunately I'm not.

But then like you I'm drinking for the taste, not to get smashed.

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TurquoiseTastic

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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
According to Psalm 104:15, wine is a gift from God which can "gladden the human heart".

Interestingly Proverbs 31 suggests that one should give strong drink to poor people so that they will drink and forget their troubles, but that it is inappropriate for kings and those in authority as it makes them neglect their responsibilities.
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betjemaniac
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Maybe I'll make my millions inventing a decent non-alcoholic bitter...

Don't get me wrong, I do like the "buzz" from alcohol and wouldn't want to give up drinking completely and in all situations. But it's not the alcohol I want most of the time, it's the drink. Sometimes I fancy a pint or two in exactly the same way that sometimes I fancy a cup of tea, a glass of water, or anything else. Hence the ease with which I've swapped over to non-alcoholic lager for the lager drinking occasions (especially helpful when you live in the middle of nowhere).

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Sioni Sais
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I've practically given up alcoholic drink (on medical advice) since about March last year. I have found non-alcoholic ginger beer, or ginger cordial with sparkling water, to be the best alternative. A bit of lime juice helps.

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Twilight

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I never was much of a drinker, but gave it up completely about five years ago when I discovered that my blood oxygen levels are rather low and alcohol makes it worse. Other than a cup of coffee in the morning, I drink nothing but water.

The whole family has clear, chilled (Britta) water with meals and we now wonder how we could have taken up stomach space and interfered with the blend of the meal with calorie and flavor filled liquids. Now, even when I have guests, we have water with the meal. I didn't cook all day just so someone can down a 200 calorie glass of something right off the bat, taking the edge off their appetite.

This is a fascinating thread to me, because I see a real pond difference. Both of my grandmothers were temperance leaders before, during and after prohibition. Their Methodist and Presbyterian churches took the view that "whatever causes my brother to stumble" they would avoid.

Now, that's all ancient history to most Americans and I don't believe Episcopalians and Catholics were ever part of all that. Even so I think church activities without alcohol are still more common than not in the U.S. and hearing churches compared to businesses that have a "right," to serve alcohol seems strange to me.

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Pyx_e

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Most of you know I'm a recovering alcoholic, so my post comes from a perspective.

I understand a couple of drinks in a social occasion, my church has wine at the Harvest Festival and after the APCM (which before I came they needed to recover from the trauma, now less so as the damn thing only lasts 15 minutes).

I say I understand but I mean I understand in my head, my heart will never see what anyone would ever only have 2 drinks, I mean WTF??? you guys can drink and get away with it, I don't understand why you are not all pissed all the time ...........

My question is: in what situation does drinking make you a better Christian?

Pyx_e

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
My question is: in what situation does drinking make you a better Christian?

My question is: in what situation does drinking make you a better Person?
Again, I'm not teetotal, so the question doesn't come from there.

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If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:


I understand a couple of drinks in a social occasion, my church has wine at the Harvest Festival and after the APCM (which before I came they needed to recover from the trauma, now less so as the damn thing only lasts 15 minutes).

I'm sure that for Anglicans or Brits this is a familiar anagram, but for google and I all we can come up with is:

Adhesive Prepregs for Composite Manufacturers

or

Asia Pacific Chapter Meeting of International Society for Peritoneal Dialysis

I'm guessing neither of these is what you're referencing.

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Jengie jon

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APCM

Annual Parish Congregational/Church Meeting would be my guess.

AGM/ACM to you or me. The time when you have the reports of various committees and vote in the officers for the coming year.

One of the few occasions where I accept alcohol may be useful to remove the tedium.

Jengie

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leo
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[QUOTafter the APCM (which before I came they needed to recover from the trauma, now less so as the damn thing only lasts 15 minutes). [/QB][/QUOTE]
You could earn more as an advisor to the rest of us on how to keep those boring meetings that short. (Come to think of it, we shall be looking for a new vicar soon.)

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My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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Pyx_e

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Annual Parochial Church Meeting. = AGM by any other name.

Leo, its a church business meeting. Which has only little to do with the business of the Church. They lucky to get 15 minutes.

edit to add, they will take my freehold form my cold dead fingers, this bunch of charlatans and bean counters. They would not know the Holy Spirit if he shat in their lap.

Pyx_e

[ 31. July 2017, 15:40: Message edited by: Pyx_e ]

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mark_in_manchester

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I'm not sure about this.

I find getting pissed on the small amounts it takes me, from time to time, a great relief from mental pressure which otherwise (having filled in my Doctor's helpful brought-to-you-by-Pfizer-manufacturers-of-anti-depressants-multi-choice-would-you-like-SSRIs-yet form) would have me on meds which I think (for me) are far less predictable than alcohol. I administer this alone when required.

Occasionally I drink socially with some men on the fringes of society, one of whom is a dry alcoholic and one who shakes so hard he needs a straw some days. The first decided to stop, the second seems to have decided there's no point in stopping. Knowing him and his life, I can't disagree.

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(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

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Brenda Clough
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I threw my knee out (surgery is in the offing) and am thrilled to report that far and away the most effective painkiller for it is a beer.

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chris stiles
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quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:

My question is: in what situation does drinking make you a better Christian?

In what situation does doing anything pleasurable that can also constitute a vice make you a better anything?
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Leorning Cniht
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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:

For surely feeling pressurised to spend cash one can ill-afford in order to be accepted socially is a moral issue?

Sure - but that's not a property of alcohol. If your social group eats in restaurants on a regular basis, there's the same social pressure. If your social group goes out and drinks hand-pressed pomegranate lemonade, there's the social pressure.

These are two different issues.

If you're a non-drinker who joins a group of friends in the pub, the price you will pay for your soft drink is on the same scale as the price the drinkers pay for their pints.

And to EM, the function of alcohol is to be a pleasurable drink. I like a decent pint. I enjoy the taste. You may as well ask what the function of a cup of tea is.

I also find that a drink is helpful in situations where I have to socialize with people I vaguely know. I find that challenging, but one drink makes it easier. (Much more than one drink doesn't.)

Does it make me a better Christian? No, but the spicy bean salad I ate with last night's dinner doesn't make me a better Christian either. It tasted nice, though.

[ 31. July 2017, 18:42: Message edited by: Leorning Cniht ]

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Twilight

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Ah but spicy bean salad never ruined anyone's life.
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chris stiles
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Sex, food and work all have done. Shall we ban all those?
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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
Sex, food and work all have done. Shall we ban all those?

Nope, just banning food will be sufficient.
Adding sex to those church meetings might reduce the need for alcohol, though.
Seriously, this is a kind of ridiculous argument to make.
We're are not talking ban and you don't need alcohol.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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chris stiles
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

Seriously, this is a kind of ridiculous argument to make.
We're are not talking ban and you don't need alcohol.

It was a rhetorical question driven by the direction of travel of Pye's original comment. After all that's an obvious reduction ab absurdum of "in what situation does drinking make you a better Christian?".

I think there is a benefit to articulating the healthy appreciation of pleasures, even when they are dangerous ones.

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Gee D
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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
Ah but spicy bean salad never ruined anyone's life.

Are you sure of that? An important business meeting, too much spicy bean salad, and where are you?

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MaryLouise
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At church picnics, it is easier to refuse a glass of wine than a bowl of three-bean salad lovingly made by the chairwoman of the Catholic Women's League, using a hefty combination of butter beans, red kidney beans and haricot beans in tomato sauce. If you're unlucky, there will be minced chillies or chopped green bell peppers added and three days of indigestion to follow.

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Baptist Trainfan
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I threw my knee out (surgery is in the offing) and am thrilled to report that far and away the most effective painkiller for it is a beer.

Applied topically or subcutaneously?
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mark_in_manchester

not waving, but...
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IV drip?

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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

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Gee D
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quote:
Originally posted by MaryLouise:
At church picnics, it is easier to refuse a glass of wine than a bowl of three-bean salad lovingly made by the chairwoman of the Catholic Women's League, using a hefty combination of butter beans, red kidney beans and haricot beans in tomato sauce. If you're unlucky, there will be minced chillies or chopped green bell peppers added and three days of indigestion to follow.

Indigestion is much milder than the consequence I was contemplating.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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mdijon
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quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
I think there is a benefit to articulating the healthy appreciation of pleasures, even when they are dangerous ones.

I enjoy alcohol quite a lot, and sometimes I drink too much. By too much I mean that I have a slight headache the next morning, not that I got into a fight or was majorly hung-over. I'm not an alcoholic, and I don't think there's any danger of me becoming one.

Most of the time I simply enjoy a drink or two, and while I could do without a drink I'm pretty sure I'd be a much worse person if you took all the things I enjoy but could live without away from me.

In terms of long-term health, it's worth noting that in many groups studied a moderate alcohol intake is better for death rates than no alcohol intake.

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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon

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Gee D
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Amen to your last comments. My GP, a learned man, recommended a couple of glasses of wine a night for me and another for Madame. Preferably red. We follow what our doctor tells us, and so most nights it's a half bottle between the 2 of us at dinner. A bit more if we go out and if any driving's needed we sort out who'll be the the designated driver before we go out.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Brenda Clough
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Now that I have joined the Fellowship of People With Knee Issues I learn that beer (applied internally, by the glassful) is a common home treatment. Since I'm having an MRI on Friday and a date with an orthopedic surgeon on Wednesday I'm off to the store to lay in a couple of six-packs.

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mdijon
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Pyx_e, in what world does a motorbike make you a better Christian?

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Baptist Trainfan
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Now that I have joined the Fellowship of People With Knee Issues I learn that beer (applied internally, by the glassful) is a common home treatment.

Someone wrote to the "Times" years ago telling how his neighbour swore that a pint of Mackeson's stout each day did wonders for his roses.

It was only later that he discovered that the stout was applied to said rose bushes only after it had been imbibed earlier, in the pub.

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betjemaniac
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In my keener days as a cross country runner (13 years back now) we were advised by the sick bay of my naval establishment to drink a pint of beer at the end of our races as it was better for you than a pint of water. I assume this is replacing lost sugars, etc while at the same time (English bitter) being still mostly water.

It's advice I still follow on my more recreational running now, and after a hard morning in the garden!

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And is it true? For if it is....

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Baptist Trainfan
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On a stiff walk along the south Devon cliffs on a hot morning some years ago, a cool refreshing half of local cider at the Pig's Nose was very refreshing. I didn't even dare to ask the alcohol content!
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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:

Most of the time I simply enjoy a drink or two, and while I could do without a drink I'm pretty sure I'd be a much worse person if you took all the things I enjoy but could live without away from me.

This illustrates part of the problem in this discussion. No one is speaking of eliminating anything and certainly not everything.

And if we are accepting anecdotes as evidence, I drink for the same reason I eat cheese; the gastronomic pleasure. The effects of the alcohol itself are neutral or mildly negative as far as my enjoyment.

So, now we have positive, neutral and negative as experiences. Yay?
quote:

In terms of long-term health, it's worth noting that in many groups studied a moderate alcohol intake is better for death rates than no alcohol intake.

IIRC, conclusions from this study have the causation/correlation issues.

Alcohol is part of our culture for the foreseeable future.
My questions are to the necessity of use in particular situation. And to the honest self-appraisal of reasons of use.

Side note: I am fairly certain a fair number of the alcohol is wonderful folk cringe at the same arguments for marijuana. A drug that is, with an age caveat, far less harmful.

[ 01. August 2017, 16:26: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Leorning Cniht
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

Side note: I am fairly certain a fair number of the alcohol is wonderful folk cringe at the same arguments for marijuana. A drug that is, with an age caveat, far less harmful.

My arguments against marijuana are:

1. I don't like smoking, and don't want to be around people who are smoking. It smells unpleasant and leaves smells ingrained in your clothing. And lung cancer. (Yes, there are other ways to use marijuana, but smoking is popular.)

1b. I don't want to get high because you are smoking. If you're smoking marijuana, you're also introducing it into my air.

1c. I wouldn't go to the ridiculous bar that has a room filled with misted alcohol either, for the same reason.

2. I don't have confidence that I could control my dose. I don't drink alcopops and the like for this reason - it's too easy to drink more than you expect, because they are designed for people that don't like to taste alcoholic drinks. (Plus they're nasty sickly concoctions.)

3. I find stoned people more annoying that drunk people (unless we're talking about angry drunks, but if you drink and get angry, I don't associate with you.)

1 applies specifically to the means of consumption. If you like pot brownies, it doesn't apply to you.

2 I think is a problem: I think it's rather easy to consume more than you were expecting particularly if you are eating someone else's brownies or chocolates.

3 is entirely personal preference

I don't think I'd try marijuana ('cause I find stoned people annoying, and so I'd probably find me stoned annoying.) Also because it seems to be "just the drug" - when I drink beer or wine, it's because I like the taste more than because I want the chemical effects. I don't drink alcohol that I don't enjoy the taste of.

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mdijon
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
This illustrates part of the problem in this discussion. No one is speaking of eliminating anything and certainly not everything.

I was responding to Pyx_e. On face value his question implies that we should question whether we really need alcohol. I was answering it. Is that really a problem?

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
So, now we have positive, neutral and negative as experiences. Yay?

So I can't give my experiences in a discussion thread now? I'm answering a question about whether I really need to drink or not. I need to draw on my experiences to do that.

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
IIRC, conclusions from this study have the causation/correlation issues.

To some degree, but that's the way with most dietary data, where randomized trials aren't really practical. The same is true for smoking and for breast feeding, but we take clear public health stands based on those observational data. But the effect of alcohol on improving mortality is much weaker than the effect of breast feeding or of the damaging effect of smoking.

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Side note: I am fairly certain a fair number of the alcohol is wonderful folk cringe at the same arguments for marijuana. A drug that is, with an age caveat, far less harmful.

Personally I would legalize marijuana. But there are quite a lot of studies suggesting alcohol in moderation prolongs life, and none for marijuana. (On the other hand the data linking alcohol to cancer are much better than any linking marijuana, but on the other hand there's reasonable data to suggest mental health illness in a proportion of marijuana users.)

Compared to smoking marijuana comes across pretty favourably.

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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon

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chris stiles
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

Alcohol is part of our culture for the foreseeable future.
My questions are to the necessity of use in particular situation.

I don't think anyone here was claiming that it was 'necessary' in church (at least in social settings - people may differ on whether its required as part of the Eucharist or not) or that the scenario described by the OP was particularly healthy at any level.
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Anselmina
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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Now that I have joined the Fellowship of People With Knee Issues I learn that beer (applied internally, by the glassful) is a common home treatment.

Someone wrote to the "Times" years ago telling how his neighbour swore that a pint of Mackeson's stout each day did wonders for his roses.

It was only later that he discovered that the stout was applied to said rose bushes only after it had been imbibed earlier, in the pub.

Wasn't that long ago since doctors used to recommend pregnant women and nursing mothers to have a regular pint of Guinness.

Don't times change!

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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
[qb]

If you're a non-drinker who joins a group of friends in the pub, the price you will pay for your soft drink is on the same scale as the price the drinkers pay for their pints.

*tangent* In the US, soft drinks or iced tea are much, much cheaper than alcohol (+free refills) even in nice restaurants, so one way I cut costs when dining out. When I visited Europe on a budget a few years back it took several unhappy meal checks before I figured out this wasn't the case cross-pond. Once I figured that out though I happily got with the program and ordered beer.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
Wasn't that long ago since doctors used to recommend pregnant women and nursing mothers to have a regular pint of Guinness.

Don't times change!

I don't remember pregnant women being encouraged to drink Guinness, though there was far less of a flap about this 40 years ago. I thought Guinness is supposed to be good for milk production and that it replenishes things that feeding a baby depletes. Is that no longer the case?

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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

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Moo

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When I was breast-feeding my babies more than forty years ago, a nurse advised me that if I felt frazzled when it was almost time to feed the baby, I should drink six ounces of beer.

A very common problem among breast-feeding women is a failure to let the milk down. The milk is made behind the nipples, and something has to relax before it flows to them. If a woman is uptight, she cannot let down the milk. Six ounces of beer is enough to relax her so that the milk flows.

I was also told that the percentage of alcohol in mother's milk is the same as the percentage of alcohol in her blood.

Moo

[ 01. August 2017, 21:27: Message edited by: Moo ]

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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.

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Leorning Cniht
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quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
When I was breast-feeding my babies more than forty years ago, a nurse advised me that if I felt frazzled when it was almost time to feed the baby, I should drink six ounces of beer.

Mrs. C's doctor told her she should have a small glass of wine in similar circumstances. She's still breastfeeding our youngest, so this is somewhat more recent advice [Biased]
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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
When I was breast-feeding my babies more than forty years ago, a nurse advised me that if I felt frazzled when it was almost time to feed the baby, I should drink six ounces of beer.

A very common problem among breast-feeding women is a failure to let the milk down. The milk is made behind the nipples, and something has to relax before it flows to them. If a woman is uptight, she cannot let down the milk. Six ounces of beer is enough to relax her so that the milk flows.

Not so much.
quote:

I was also told that the percentage of alcohol in mother's milk is the same as the percentage of alcohol in her blood.

Moo

This bit is true.
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

Alcohol is part of our culture for the foreseeable future.
My questions are to the necessity of use in particular situation.

I don't think anyone here was claiming that it was 'necessary' in church (at least in social settings -
Dunno,some of the reactions seem to imply this.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
My arguments against marijuana are:

I don't smoke and I don't want a contact high, so I have some of the same objections to public marijuana use as do you.

Personally, I rarely find people better company drunk, stoned or however else they choose to get high.
quote:

I don't think I'd try marijuana ('cause I find stoned people annoying, and so I'd probably find me stoned annoying.) Also because it seems to be "just the drug" - when I drink beer or wine, it's because I like the taste more than because I want the chemical effects. I don't drink alcohol that I don't enjoy the taste of.

Aright, I do not smoke, now. I did a bit as a child and have smoked a few cigars as an adult. There are taste differences and I can understand liking them. I assume this might be the case with different strains of marijuana. Also, much alcohol is nasty tasting until one gets used to it and/or covers it up.
So, it seems pretty much a draw there as well.

[ 01. August 2017, 21:52: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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