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Source: (consider it) Thread: climate disasters or it's just weather
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy quoting the late Professor David MacKay:
Have no illusions. To achieve our goal of getting off fossil fuels, these reductions in demand and increases in supply must be big. Don’t be distracted by the myth that “every little helps.” If everyone does a little, we’ll
achieve only a little. We must do a lot. What’s required are big changes in demand and in supply.
“But surely, if 60 million people all do a little, it’ll add up to a lot?”
No.

the late Professor David MacKay in Without Hotair, chapter 19
This is a great link. Thanks.

[ 06. September 2017, 17:02: Message edited by: no prophet's flag is set so... ]

Posts: 10705 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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With respect to the late Professor MacKay, the question of whether lots of people doing a little will have a big impact depends to an extent on what that little is.

[It also depends on when that little is done - but that boat has long since sailed, we've known for 30 years that burning fossil fuels was affecting the global climate and if we'd all done a little bit then then the effect now would be substantial]

As an example, take housing which is a significant contributor to our carbon foot prints. Just across the road from where I'm currently sitting the local college has a demonstration ultra-low carbon house used for teaching their construction students (and, visited by lots of other people). This has thick, extra insulated walls, triple glazing, ground source heat-pump and underfloor heating, solar panels, rain water harvesting ... the works. The construction has a larger carbon cost than conventional construction, but almost zero running costs means it will have the same total carbon cost as a conventional construction in about 5 years. Given that we tend to keep houses for decades, even centuries, the long term impact is enormous. Is building housing to this standard a big or little step? In terms of cost, this four bed house (in 2008) cost just under £100k to build, when a similar house without all the low carbon features would have cost somewhere around £97k. So, the cost is just an extra £2000 or so, which is lost in the fluctuations of the housing market - thus, building ultra low carbon housing is a small step that if everyone made the decision to only buy new houses that met that criteria would have a very large impact.

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

Posts: 31921 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
thus, building ultra low carbon housing is a small step that if everyone made the decision to only buy new houses that met that criteria would have a very large impact.

I think (I might be over-reaching here, but) the point the good professor is making is that the market sucks at delivering this kind of change.

What is actually required in this particular case (and many other cases) is government intervention. Change the building regs so that only low-carbon houses are built from now on. And then devise a rolling plan to either retrofit or demolish existing housing stock and bring it up to code. That, and only that, would make a big enough difference.

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Get your arse to Mars

Posts: 8620 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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Anyone know why they name hurricanes which kill people happy gentle names like "Irma" and "Harvey". Sounds like they're an old married couple who pat dogs and wave at the neighbours. No,they should call them things like "Destructo Climatechange Denial Donald" and "Climate Storm Fucking Kill You Melanoma".
Posts: 10705 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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Well, when the US started naming them, only women's names were used. It was a great day when men were allowed to share trouble-making blame, too!
[Biased]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17516 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Anyone know why they name hurricanes which kill people happy gentle names like "Irma" and "Harvey".

Mt pet rabbit is called Harvey. While he certainly makes me happy, "gentle" is not a phrase I would associate with him! "Avatar of furniture destruction" perhaps, and that's far more appropriate for a hurricane.

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Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 29783 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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The Lord's Ways are covfefe ↄ⃝ .

Hurricane Irma is headed for trumpy's house.
[Killing me]

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Maybe I should stop to consider that I'm not worthy of an epiphany and just take what life has to offer
(formerly was just "no prophet") \_(ツ)_/

Posts: 10705 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
The Lord's Ways are covfefe ↄ⃝ .

Hurricane Irma is headed for trumpy's house.
[Killing me]

Will he learn from this?

Nope [Roll Eyes]

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Garden. Room. Walk

Posts: 12467 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Anyone know why they name hurricanes which kill people happy gentle names like "Irma" and "Harvey". Sounds like they're an old married couple who pat dogs and wave at the neighbours. No,they should call them things like "Destructo Climatechange Denial Donald" and "Climate Storm Fucking Kill You Melanoma".

Hurricanes are named from a list established by the World Meteorological Organization. Each hurricane basin has its own list. The lists for the North Atlantic/Caribbean/Gulf of Mexico are on a six year rotation, so in 2023 we'll probably see a Hurricane (or Tropical Storm) Arlene again. Names of particularly destructive hurricanes (e.g. Katrina, Andrew, Camille) are retired and replaced on the list with another name beginning with the same letter.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

Posts: 10287 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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I daresay 'Destructo Climatechange Denial Donald' will boast that his properties have been damaged more bigly and expensively than those of the poor, brown, Bad Hombres... [Mad]

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

Posts: 8456 | From: With The Glums At The Bus Stop | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
I daresay 'Destructo Climatechange Denial Donald' will boast that his properties have been damaged more bigly and expensively than those of the poor, brown, Bad Hombres... [Mad]

IJ

[Killing me]

--------------------
Maybe I should stop to consider that I'm not worthy of an epiphany and just take what life has to offer
(formerly was just "no prophet") \_(ツ)_/

Posts: 10705 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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BTW, thanks for the latest Epithet for the Egregious Emperor.... [Snigger]

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

Posts: 8456 | From: With The Glums At The Bus Stop | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
My pet rabbit is called Harvey...

Is he six feet tall and invisible?

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

Posts: 9251 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641

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Sections of this article talk over and expand on some of the points raised by myself and others in this thread.

A lot of municipal governments rely on property taxes to fund local spending, and so have a built in bias to 'preserve' property values, even when amounts to denying the problem (waterfront property amounts for some of the most valuable property in many places). Similarly many representatives have their campaigns funded by real estate moguls.

The following quote describes the inevitable outcome as poorer communities are left behind, and those who afford to get out. The picture looks much like the Rust Belt as epitomised by the decline of Detroit.

quote:
Eventually, those who can will leave the coast. ..... In Florida, Hauer projects that 2.5 million people will have to leave their homes by that date.

Perhaps some of the ravaged coastal cities will become sources of scrap. High-quality housing stock in dying coastal cities might be worth disassembling by scavengers in search of bricks, copper pipe, slate tiles, windows, doors, and old-growth hardwood lumber to sell to inland construction markets. We’ve seen that pattern in the Rust Belt: for much of the 1990s St. Louis’s top export was old bricks bound for the booming Sunbelt where its rubble was repurposed as patios bought on credit.



[ 09. September 2017, 14:25: Message edited by: chris stiles ]

Posts: 3681 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
My pet rabbit is called Harvey...

Is he six feet tall and invisible?
Haha, no. Good reference though [Big Grin]

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Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 29783 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116

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Just a question here from an ignorant Brit:

We've known for decades that places like Kansas (Wizard of Oz) has tornadoes, etc, etc - they weren't caused by climate change in the 1930s were they? Anyway, back to my question:

Why, in these hurricane/tornado prone areas do Americans live in wooden houses?
We see on the TV these wrecked places with matchwood everywhere. Is it because they can be easily rebuilt after a storm, or is it simply that a brick house would be just as vulnerable and wooden ones are cheaper?

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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton

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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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Poverty. Bricks cost more than wood, and take specialized skill to lay. Wooden construction is more or less open to anyone with a hammer. Also, assuming that you do not live in an area with natural lumber or a brick industry (Kansas qualifies on both counts) any building materiel has to be hauled in from somewhere else. And wood is lighter and easier to manage than bricks.
It has been postulated, not entirely facetiously, that tornadoes are attracted to mobile home communities. This is because the TV always shows wrecked mobile home parks. But the reason for this is the visual nature of TV. You need a picture of wreckage. The brick or even wooden homes held up, but the mobile homes are trashed. Mobile homes, BTW, are the final resort of the poorer person; you can buy a reasonable mobile home for $25K or so.

[ 11. September 2017, 16:25: Message edited by: Brenda Clough ]

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 5255 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
Why, in these hurricane/tornado prone areas do Americans live in wooden houses?
We see on the TV these wrecked places with matchwood everywhere. Is it because they can be easily rebuilt after a storm, or is it simply that a brick house would be just as vulnerable and wooden ones are cheaper?

In many of the places most prone to hurricanes building codes are fairly relaxed, both in content and enforcement. Houston, in particular, is known for its relative lack of zoning and minimal building standards. In good weather this allows faster economic growth. In a hurricane . . . well, we've all seen the footage.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

Posts: 10287 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641

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quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
We see on the TV these wrecked places with matchwood everywhere. Is it because they can be easily rebuilt after a storm, or is it simply that a brick house would be just as vulnerable and wooden ones are cheaper?

Cost has something to do with it - also frame based construction techniques allow large parts of the houses to be prefabbed off-site and then assembled on site, which cuts overall build time.
Posts: 3681 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged
Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:

Why, in these hurricane/tornado prone areas do Americans live in wooden houses?

Even if you live in Tornado Alley, the chances of your house getting a direct hit from a tornado are fairly small (tornadoes aren't all that big). So it doesn't need to be very much cheaper to build in timber-frame rather than brick or concrete to make it rational on a community scale to build with timber and accept the rebuild costs.

In all the big hurricanes, most of the damage is caused by flooding, not high winds. So I suppose the extent to which it's rational to build a more robust house in a hurricane zone depends on whether it's proof against 15-foot storm surges and rivers that are trying to get in your bed rather than staying in their own. If you have to knock it down anyway, because of mould, or flood-weakened foundations, having sturdy walls isn't an advantage.

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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

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Interesting article in the Guardian today, talking about the last year. Record temperatures, record winds, record rain, record hurricanes, record droughts in some areas, but don't worry, it's not caused by human activity, it's just random. And the fact that we're heading for an increase of 3.5 degrees in global temperatures - don't worry, Trump has it under control.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/11/threat-climate-change-hurricane-harvey-irma-droughts

[ 11. September 2017, 17:21: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]

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no path

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