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Source: (consider it) Thread: To planets unknown
Jamat
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# 11621

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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Billions of years after our species is not even fossils.

Now, if you took the Bible seriously, you could become aware of a divine plan that is outside the envelope of time. It does involve, in the first instance, the cleansing and recolonisation of the earth. The Bible calls it the millennium reign of Christ. It occurs after the great tribulation which will climax in the defeat of evil at Armageddon.
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Martin60
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# 368

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If you took the bible as seriously as I you couldn't be a wooden literalist.

--------------------
Love wins

Posts: 16899 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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The Starlost was a sci fi TV show I quite liked at the time (1970s). Pod worlds within a huge space ship whose multigenerational crew had been killed, and whose job it was to oversee the multiple worlds. Some people get out of the Amish world and visit neighbouring pods with different cultures and learn to run the computer.
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rolyn
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# 16840

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quote:
Originally posted by Russ:
A sci-fi future in which the human race is united against the bug-eyed monsters, and working together on the project of interstellar travel has its attractions. An open system in which individuals can achieve on behalf of the species.

If the alternative is a closed system in which the height of our aspirations is a different distribution of finite resources,we war against those of our fellows who hold different ideas of social justice, and achieving anything is at somebody else's expense, then bring on the bug-eyed monsters...

War of the worlds, all those 50's sci-fi offerings, and many which followed tend to share the common theme of hostile aliens either peering in on our squabbles and endeavours, or more likely, having an unquenchable desire to control or eradicate us.
All of this now looks like a classic exercise in the projection of our own fears and ambitions. Not much different from the projections many suspect lie behind religion.

Pondering on the fact that we are, for all intents and purposes, alone and unable to reach another habitation.....
If we are lost in space, then from where have we become lost?
If we have been banished to a Cosmic outpost, then Who did the banishing?

--------------------
Change is the only certainty of existence

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Billions of years after our species is not even fossils.

Now, if you took the Bible seriously, you could become aware of a divine plan that is outside the envelope of time. It does involve, in the first instance, the cleansing and recolonisation of the earth. The Bible calls it the millennium reign of Christ. It occurs after the great tribulation which will climax in the defeat of evil at Armageddon.
Alternatively, we can take the Bible seriously and realise it says a lot about how we should be living right here, right now ... but, the future (and especially the distant future) is unknown to all but the Father, even the Son not knowing the day or the hour.

--------------------
Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

Posts: 32134 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
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# 368

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Perfect.

--------------------
Love wins

Posts: 16899 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jamat
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# 11621

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Billions of years after our species is not even fossils.

Now, if you took the Bible seriously, you could become aware of a divine plan that is outside the envelope of time. It does involve, in the first instance, the cleansing and recolonisation of the earth. The Bible calls it the millennium reign of Christ. It occurs after the great tribulation which will climax in the defeat of evil at Armageddon.
Alternatively, we can take the Bible seriously and realise it says a lot about how we should be living right here, right now ... but, the future (and especially the distant future) is unknown to all but the Father, even the Son not knowing the day or the hour.
Alternatively, you could take it seriously and realise the distant future will not exist in temporal terms but that you can learn quite a lot about the destiny of humanity through it. Certainly, God knows everything he has planned but Daniel the prophet had a considerable revelatory window which one can read all about that has zip to do with worrying about the day or the hour. There is nothing remotely Christian about speculation regarding interplanetary colonies and the more technologies we develop, the less realistic such speculation becomes.
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Jamat
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# 11621

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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
If you took the bible as seriously as I you couldn't be a wooden literalist.

I am not a wooden literalist. You seem to be though..regarding the 'truth tale' in the rocks.
If you take it seriously, perhaps you could tell me what 1cor 15:1-10 is all about.

--------------------
Jamat ..in utmost longditude, where Heaven
with Earth and ocean meets, the setting sun slowly descended, and with right aspect
Against the eastern gate of Paradise. (Milton Paradise Lost Bk iv)

Posts: 2967 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Alternatively, we can take the Bible seriously and realise it says a lot about how we should be living right here, right now ... but, the future (and especially the distant future) is unknown to all but the Father, even the Son not knowing the day or the hour.

The Trinity is multiple personalities? The Guy sitting on the right of the Father is a different chap? Totally?

Which has me wondering now about The Matrix and a cyberpunk future (a character is named Trinity), where Jesus hacks reality, changing people's coding so they aren't blind any more, cure illnesses by rewriting DNA coding (bacterial, virus or other), take water code it into wine, compress time and space with bullet time respawning after death.

Yes! God programmed it. Moses learned it. Jesus hacked it. The Holy Spirit? I don't know what the HS does here, gives inspiration? Reboots our souls? Is that what communion is? Soul reboot?

Any road: Jesus hacks my reality.

(I wish I could say I was all ginned up to write this, but no fuzzy coding here)

--------------------
Maybe I should stop to consider that I'm not worthy of an epiphany and just take what life has to offer
(formerly was just "no prophet") \_(ツ)_/

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
You seem to be though..regarding the 'truth tale' in the rocks.

Pfft. Geologists fight over the details of that all the time. It's how academic careers are made.

--------------------
Forward the New Republic

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Martin60
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# 368

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quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
If you took the bible as seriously as I you couldn't be a wooden literalist.

I am not a wooden literalist. You seem to be though..regarding the 'truth tale' in the rocks.
If you take it seriously, perhaps you could tell me what 1cor 15:1-10 is all about.

Hmmm. So what in Genesis is not literal but metaphor? That's rhetorical by the way. If you want to answer there's a dead horse for that. And what do you want to know about I Corinthians 15:1-10, what don't you understand? I can't possibly see what you can't.

--------------------
Love wins

Posts: 16899 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
You seem to be though..regarding the 'truth tale' in the rocks.

Pfft. Geologists fight over the details of that all the time. It's how academic careers are made.
You can make an academic career by standing on the shoulders of those who went before you. It's much easier to make your name by walking all over them. Breaking new ground is very hard - though perhaps geologists are more likely to do that.

--------------------
Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Alan--

Nice quip! [Smile]

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110

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Jamat

Martin60 is not alone in his puzzlement over the 1 Cor 15 reference. Me too. Will you explain please?

--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Jamat
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# 11621

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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
If you took the bible as seriously as I you couldn't be a wooden literalist.

I am not a wooden literalist. You seem to be though..regarding the 'truth tale' in the rocks.
If you take it seriously, perhaps you could tell me what 1cor 15:1-10 is all about.

Hmmm. So what in Genesis is not literal but metaphor? That's rhetorical by the way. If you want to answer there's a dead horse for that. And what do you want to know about I Corinthians 15:1-10, what don't you understand? I can't possibly see what you can't.
Perhaps that's the issue..what you cannot see.
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Martin60
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# 368

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Alternatively, we can take the Bible seriously and realise it says a lot about how we should be living right here, right now ... but, the future (and especially the distant future) is unknown to all but the Father, even the Son not knowing the day or the hour.

The Trinity is multiple personalities? The Guy sitting on the right of the Father is a different chap? Totally?
...

Yes. But one God.

And was Jesus talking about what He as pre-incarnate Son knew and as post-resurrection, returned-to-the-Father Son would know? How would He have known? Or was He talking as the wholly or super-positioned or intersecting incarnate Son?

--------------------
Love wins

Posts: 16899 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
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# 368

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quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
If you took the bible as seriously as I you couldn't be a wooden literalist.

I am not a wooden literalist. You seem to be though..regarding the 'truth tale' in the rocks.
If you take it seriously, perhaps you could tell me what 1cor 15:1-10 is all about.

Hmmm. So what in Genesis is not literal but metaphor? That's rhetorical by the way. If you want to answer there's a dead horse for that. And what do you want to know about I Corinthians 15:1-10, what don't you understand? I can't possibly see what you can't.
Perhaps that's the issue..what you cannot see.
Please tell me what you know about I Corinthians 15:1-10 that I don't. Then I'll know.

--------------------
Love wins

Posts: 16899 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
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# 1468

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Jamat--

quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
Alternatively, you could take it seriously and realise the distant future will not exist in temporal terms but that you can learn quite a lot about the destiny of humanity through it. Certainly, God knows everything he has planned but Daniel the prophet had a considerable revelatory window which one can read all about that has zip to do with worrying about the day or the hour. There is nothing remotely Christian about speculation regarding interplanetary colonies and the more technologies we develop, the less realistic such speculation becomes.

Um, we're still in the "envelope of time". (Although my clock does have problems... [Biased] )

We don't know how big that envelope is, or whether it can be stretched if circumstances require it. If salvation, etc. is true, then perhaps God might push/stretch the envelope, so as to give more mercy to more people.

Are you thinking we're in an "any time now" last days mode? I grew up fundamentalist. While I've put most of that in my "don't know" pile, I do still watch for signs, just in case. Sometimes, Christians have embarrassingly decided the 2nd Coming was immediate (whether pre-Tribulation, mid-Trib, or post-Trib, with the Rapture sandwiched in there). People have often thought they were at the end, and they weren't. Sometimes, they actually put on robes and went to wait. (No offense to anyone who's in the lineage of that group.) People get hurt, and there's a big mess.

For all we know, Jesus won't come back for thousands of years. So there may well be time for us to go toodling around in space, with a lot of cool, new toys. And Christian writers (and others) have played with those possibilities.

So...maybe a good approach is to work on living our lives the way Jesus taught. And maybe keep an eye out for signs, *without getting too freaked out about them*.

But if we're always on edge that "Jesus is coming soon, and we'll finally get out of here!", we miss a lot of good life, and are too distracted to do good in the world.

And if life exists elsewhere, it's just more stuff God made.

[ 06. September 2017, 09:24: Message edited by: Golden Key ]

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Martin60
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# 368

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There's no if. It's no less certain than our existence. As it is certain that there will be no new toys. Anywhere.

--------------------
Love wins

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Mudfrog
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Or maybe, just maybe, the Scriptures will be true.

--------------------
"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton

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Martin60
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# 368

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Which? There are no new toys anywhere in the material cosmos. All things will be sublimed new. Those are true scripture.

--------------------
Love wins

Posts: 16899 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
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# 1468

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Martin--

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
There's no if. It's no less certain than our existence. As it is certain that there will be no new toys. Anywhere.

Um...??? Jamat had talked about no new tech, and AIUI that it would be wrong to pursue it.

All I meant was that Jesus might wait thousands of years to return, so there might be plenty of time for us to explore space, and to make lots of new tech to help us do it.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17994 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
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# 368

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I know GK. We can't. Just better probes within the solar system and better telescopes. No sci-fi nonsense like fusion drives, let alone M-AM and Dr Who.

[ 06. September 2017, 11:01: Message edited by: Martin60 ]

--------------------
Love wins

Posts: 16899 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
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# 368

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Sorry, beg her pardon, Doctor Who.

--------------------
Love wins

Posts: 16899 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged



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