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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: What to pray for when your good means someone else's bad?
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SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
The conceiver of universes.
I can assure you that this is definitely included in the total - infinite number - of things and ideas in which I lack belief!! If, of course, you can provide an observation I can make of this 'conceiver' of universes, well, there is always the faintest possibility you might be right and I would have to concede! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Posts: 3083 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
So you don't believe that anything precedes universes? They just happen, are conceived, ex nihilo?
[ 13. September 2017, 17:12: Message edited by: Martin60 ]
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
So you don't believe that anything precedes universes? They just happen, are conceived, ex nihilo?
I would have thought that the answer to that is don't know, I mean from the point of view of science. Whether anything preceded this universe seems to be a moot point, and I would not like to anticipate further cosmological discoveries.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Nope. No one seriously doubts cause and effect. No one. From Hume onwards. Only for the sake of argument, in which binary opposites don't have equal weight. Universes don't arise ex nihilo. Something supernatural conceives them. Youtube Alan Guth. And if rationally apprehendable universes could arise ex nihilo, that's a highly specific, impossibly narrow outcome. A law. If anything can happen, everthing has. Every random thing. Except in rational (QM) universes. Bollocks. So make the universal set smaller: all universes are QM and some are a bowl of petunias. Bollocks. What isn't bollocks is that there is infinite negative entropy. Inexhaustible capacity for ever more complex order. That's not natural by, of any known nature. It's the ultimate rational inference. Possibly bar one. That God is.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Nope. No one seriously doubts cause and effect. No one. From Hume onwards. Only for the sake of argument, in which binary opposites don't have equal weight. Universes don't arise ex nihilo. Something supernatural conceives them.
If you are making that claim, then it is of course up to you to substantiate it! The only correct answer to the question about what happened before this universe began is 'we don't know'. Humans might possibly eventually produce a logical answer which will be 99.9% proof, but to insert the god/conceiver/supernatural-cause instead of the 'don't know' answer is not logical, is it. quote:
Youtube Alan Guth. And if rationally apprehendable universes could arise ex nihilo, that's a highly specific, impossibly narrow outcome. A law. If anything can happen, everthing has. Every random thing. Except in rational (QM) universes. Bollocks. So make the universal set smaller: all universes are QM and some are a bowl of petunias. Bollocks. What isn't bollocks is that there is infinite negative entropy. Inexhaustible capacity for ever more complex order. That's not natural by, of any known nature. It's the ultimate rational inference. Possibly bar one. That God is.
I haven't clicked on the video link - could you write a word or two about what he concludes? i.e. is there any likelihood that I will agree with it?!
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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Posts: 3083 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
The conception of the universe substantiates it. That's good enough for me. Alan Guth agrees.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Simply, the multiverse is simpler than a one off universe. Regardless, the laws of thermodynamics are transcended.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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