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» Ship of Fools   » Community discussion   » Purgatory   » do we really want to be counselled by a smart phone in a connected up world?

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Source: (consider it) Thread: do we really want to be counselled by a smart phone in a connected up world?
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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Apparently the Google-Apple wants to have Siri or Theresa or whatever voice comes with smartphones programmed to talk to you about your developing mental health problems. I saw this idea first with EMACS in the early 1980s as a joke module for a typing based time killer while waiting for analyses to run on a mainframe computer (Tops-20 if anyone cares).

I'm struck at the full absurdity and grave dangers of this latest intrusive idea. Computers are not human. Humans do not process information, our brains do not run algorithms, we don't do input/output, we are not a logical series of equations or routines.

Further, if your phone voice collects info about your anxieties, won't it link that with location info when you shop, to your Fitbit watch which tracks your sleep quality and calculates the size of your home and how you move around in it, how much time you spent in front of the stove to cook what it knows you bought, time on the toilet, reading Ship of Fools and everything else you click on and all places you go. I suspect ultimately counselling by phone assistant means targetted adverts and buying advice.

Are you as concerned about such profit privacy-questionable driven ideas as I am?

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

Posts: 11183 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Apparently the Google-Apple wants to have Siri or Theresa or whatever voice comes with smartphones programmed to talk to you about your developing mental health problems.

If people want that, let them have it. Personally I have Siri turned off on my devices anyway so it won't make a lot of difference to me.

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Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 29953 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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My first, only partially facetious, response was that it couldn’t be worse than a human therapist.
But that is actually the point. Humans misread each other and we are face to face for all the non-verbal bits. AI isn’t nearly sophisticated enough by a long shot.

ETA: The problem, MtM, is that people already ask questions that the software cannot deal with. If they officially say it can, more will be mislead.

[ 28. September 2017, 14:46: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 17115 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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This thread brought to mind Ray Bradbury's classic short story The Murderer:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Murderer

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

Posts: 9449 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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*shrug*

We seem to do everything else by smart phone.

I also have Siri turned off and am unimpressed by Alexi, which my friend has and only seems to use for novelty value.

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Garden. Room. Walk

Posts: 12740 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840

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Computers have given us many novelties yet at the same time we are being drawn into zones which are beginning to look ever more creepy.

What short memories we have. 30 years ago a mobile phone was a child's toy phone which was pulled along on wheels. The internet ? That was just [Confused] WTF?
Even though we lived without these devices quite sufficiently it now appears there is no going back, but where they are ultimately taking us to no one really seems to know.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

Posts: 3110 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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I listened to a CBC news item that ringing a door bell is too stressful for them and creates too much uncertainty that Millenials are text messaging instead. WTF? We are electronically hyper-connected but experience only the most superficial of human connections, even with our own selves.
Posts: 11183 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Hiro's Leap

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# 12470

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Dr. Bot shows how it's done.
Posts: 3418 | From: UK, OK | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged
mark_in_manchester

not waving, but...
# 15978

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Someone I know - a university professor of IT, I think is his title - has made some money and reputation points out of developing some kind of app for smart phones aimed at saving the NHS money by automatically monitoring the mental state of patients with chronic mental health conditions.

He was not amused when I asked whether the thing would whisper 'do it, do it now' in his patients' ears.

I hope he has substantial liability insurance, for when the thing fails to work and a tragedy ensues. I focus only on the financial angle, since that seems to be the traditional UK approach to mental health problems.

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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

Posts: 1548 | Registered: Oct 2010  |  IP: Logged
simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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Therapy can be useful in dealing with mental health issues, and in the maintenance of good mental health . The key is finding the right practitioner for you, which is very difficult.

My most recent experience involved the counselor chucking various ideas and ways of seeing things at me, gauging my reaction and amending his suggestions accordingly.

I'm not all that concerned with an app being used to counsel people, as long as they go see a specialist if their angst persists. I'd love the stock pieces of advice to be "Don't be so materialistic" and "What's that you have? An i-phone 10." and "Geo-located. First-world problems." The final bit of advice should be: "Talk to your Doc. 'cos this phone ain't listening."

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Human

Posts: 1281 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014  |  IP: Logged
Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772

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The program I remember from the early days , was actually based on Rogerian Analysis which turns every patient statement into a question. Eliza You can google for a working version on line. Including it in a post seems cruel to the hosts and possibly a violation of posting rules.

There's also the parody of the Microsoft word helpful assistant

Clippy

The Eliza article mentions that versions serious and comic offered religious advice. I think there's a great tendency for people to create a social relationship even if it's an animal or non-animate object.

Posts: 2984 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011  |  IP: Logged
Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564

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Ah, the joys of M-x psychoanalyse-pinhead.
Posts: 4900 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013  |  IP: Logged
Rossweisse

High Church Valkyrie
# 2349

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I have Siri turned off, as well as Microsoft's Cor-whatsis on my desktop. I have resisted The Internet of Things, because I figure it's only a matter of (a brief) time before it's all hacked, and if I can't even turn a light on, what's the point?

I'm not sure to what extent this is paranoia, or common sense, or evidence that I'm actually older than my driver's license declares me to be. I do worry that my car might be hacked at some point, but at least it doesn't try to talk to me...yet.

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I'm not dead yet.

Posts: 14757 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I listened to a CBC news item that ringing a door bell is too stressful for them and creates too much uncertainty that Millenials are text messaging instead.

[Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes]

Well it's nice to know that the capacity of the media to feed old people's belief that 'Kids These Days Are Sending The World To Hell In A Handcart, Not Like It Was In My Day' will remain unchanged from one generation to the next ...

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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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I do rather like this app -Unstuck

Ignore the hype and try it if you are a procrastinator, it's rather good imo

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Garden. Room. Walk

Posts: 12740 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
Moo

Ship's tough old bird
# 107

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Clippy offered various choices of suicide methods. I chose 'pastry', and Clippy didn't do anything after that.

Moo

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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.

Posts: 20260 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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Has anyone else received an automated notification reminding you to wish happy birthday to a dead person? I wonder what the dead person's FB account has in it? Invitations to play zombie games, adverts for coffins? Does Jesus read these things? Would my smart phone counsellor know that I was posting to the dead? Pastry indeed Moo. Good one.

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

Posts: 11183 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
I do worry that my car might be hacked at some point, but at least it doesn't try to talk to me...yet.

The GPS in my car talks to me incessantly. "You are over the speed limit. Reduce your speed!" "Red light camera ahead." "In 500 feet, turn right." Etc.

It gets very upset with me when I ignore the route it has suggested to get from one place to another, opting instead for a more sensible and direct route. "Turn back!"

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"Stop your noisy songs; I do not want to listen to your praise bands." -- Amos 5:23, Good News Bible (modified)

Posts: 10353 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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Does the car link with your phone, facebook, computer?
Posts: 11183 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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I wonder if there's a sibling placement connection in who buys these things and who doesn't. I'm a youngest and I bristle under bossiness of any kind. I can't even use the self-help line at the supermarket because the voice always takes that tone with me saying, "Put. The. Item. In. The. Bag." Anything in my pocket, lecturing about anger issues would be tossed under a moving vehicle in the parking lot.
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Does the car link with your phone, facebook, computer?

Phone, yes. I'll use Facebook when you position my cold dead fingers on the keys.

I find the phone connection useful. "Incoming call from . . ." and it gives me the hands-free option of answering it. However, "Incoming text message from . . . " is a tease. It won't let me read the message (and rightly so!) so long as the car is moving. If I pull over and stop, I can read it.

quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I can't even use the self-help line at the supermarket because the voice always takes that tone with me saying, "Put. The. Item. In. The. Bag."

It loves me too. My supermarket gives me the choice of paper or plastic bags. I always choose paper. However, the sensitized packing area of the self-serve checkout doesn't sense the paper bag correctly. "Unexpected item in bagging area," it scolds me. "Attendant summoned." Uh-oh! I'm brought up before the checkout police.

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"Stop your noisy songs; I do not want to listen to your praise bands." -- Amos 5:23, Good News Bible (modified)

Posts: 10353 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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No doubt counselling during driving is possible.
Posts: 11183 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Aravis
Shipmate
# 13824

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To return to the tangent about millennials texting rather than using doorbells: why complain about this? It seems eminently sensible to me for a number of reasons:
- the person you want to contact will be the one to answer the door
- the people in the house you don't want to contact won't be disturbed by the doorbell
- the person you want to contact knows it's you
- no waiting around if the doorbell doesn't work
- your call won't be mistaken for another similar noise (more the case with door knockers than bells)
- this method works even if the person is deaf or listening to headphones (both apply to my husband, who needs to keep his phone on him more)
- you can impart any other useful information in the text to save time, particularly useful if there are a lot of stairs to negotiate

Posts: 657 | From: S Wales | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged
Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I also have Siri turned off and am unimpressed by Alexi, which my friend has and only seems to use for novelty value.

I was quite amused by this interaction with Alexa [NSFW].

[ 02. October 2017, 07:51: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]

Posts: 7578 | From: Albury, Australia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged


 
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