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Source: (consider it) Thread: What are we going to do about men in politics?
Brenda Clough
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I hate to point out to you that Bill Clinton is no longer in office. i

[ 13. November 2017, 17:48: Message edited by: Brenda Clough ]

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I hate to point out to you that Bill Clinton is no longer in office. i

His point is about the continued association with Clinton. Which is a valid question.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Soror Magna
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I was watching Morning Joe this morning and Nicole Wallace made an interesting point about the people who withhold opinion or judgment because they're waiting for ... something or other. In the case of the Roy Moore allegations, she said there isn't anything more to wait for. There isn't going to be any trial. In her words, either you believe the accusations or you don't.

My corollary to that is that if there isn't going to be a trial in a court of law, then the court of public opinion will be the only trial, for better or worse. How to avoid this? Rather than never leaving the house, keep your supraesophageal ganglion to yourself. At least at work or when there are kids around. Geez. Is that so complicated?

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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
Is that so complicated?

The case of Roy Moore is the same as Trump. Christians willing to excuse transgressions because they think the transgressors will further the Christian agenda. Anti-homosexuality, anti-abortion, anti-immigrant...

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Brenda Clough
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George F. Will, the dean of conservative columnists, says in today's Post:
"Evangelical Christians who embrace Moore are serving the public good by making ridiculous their pose as uniquely moral Americans, and by revealing their leaders to be especially grotesque specimens of the vanity — vanity about virtue — that is curdling politics."

The church is doing itself no favors by embracing this piece of excrement. I know that the state of Alabama is racked with doubt, not because of their love of Moore (which is on the record) but the plainer and more painful fact that this will affect business investment, convention traffic, and tourism.

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Tubbs

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
OK. I'm wrong. But it is consistent to say that someone got a conditional discharge and had to pay something to a victim and also was put on the register. Possibly this is not technically a fine.

In murder and manslaughter, (1) A person should be taken to intend a result if he or she acts in order to bring it about and (2) In cases where the judge believes that justice may not be done unless an expanded understanding of intention is given, the jury should be directed as follows: an intention to bring about a result may be found if it is shown that the defendant thought that the result was a virtually certain consequence of his or her action. The rules might be the similar for other offences, but IANAL.

It sounds like the judge decided the actions could result in an offense, the defendant was aware of that but did it anyway.

Sometimes a Judge might prefer to let someone off having heard all the evidence, but they have to follow the sentencing guidelines so they award the least they can. The entry on the Register lasts for the period of the discharge.

Someone who was in the building but didn’t witness the incident doesn’t automatically get interviewed. Or if they are interviewed, it would be very short.

Q: Did you see the incident?

A. No

Job done. Nothing else is relevant.

I read way too many crime books.

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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am

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Golden Key
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And now, per the news, Al Franken (senator and "Saturday Night Live" alum) has joined the list of offenders.
[Frown]

Will be interesting to see if, how, and when SNL handles this.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Golden Key
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{Presented for your consideration, on a YMMV basis.}

I was looking around on Instructables, and came across "Street Safety For Women", written by a woman who survived two attacks on the street. IMHO, it's really well done, and she won a contest for it, too.

A lot of this could be used for indoor, at-work situations, I think. Worth a read.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Golden Key
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Golden Key:
[QB] {I've been trying to figure out whether I should say this, or how. I think it might be important. So please bear with me. If you get angry, please skip to the end and read that.}


...when there's a lot of justified rage against certain people, it can spill over onto other people...

So I gently suggest that decent guys and trying-to-be-decent guys be extra circumspect about touch, comments, and sexual behavior.

A few guidelines,

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Golden Key
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
{I've been trying to figure out whether I should say this, or how. I think it might be important. So please bear with me. If you get angry, please skip to the end and read that.}


...when there's a lot of justified rage against certain people, it can spill over onto other people...

So I gently suggest that decent guys and trying-to-be-decent guys be extra circumspect about touch, comments, and sexual behavior.

A few guidelines, which you probably already know, but just in case:

--Don't behave remotely sexually (however playful you might think it is) with someone over whom you have power.

--No whistling "appreciatively" at people passing by, or people you know (kids included). (I've yet to hear a woman say she likes that, and we generally take it as very inappropriate.)

--Hands off, literally.

--Don't make sexual jokes.

--ASK FIRST, politely, if you want to behave sexually with a person. Unless they very specifically say "Yes", don't proceed.

If, for whatever reasons, you find that problematic, talk to a therapist who can help you figure out if there's a problem you need to address.

I've been in a bunch of "me, too" situations, throughout my life. I know there are good guys. I also know that sometimes guys think boundary lines are fuzzy. And I know that many, many victims/survivors of abuse/harassment are raging. If we/they go all Krakatoa, you don't want to unnecessarily be in the way.

FWIW, YMMV. Apologies for any offense. I'm pragmatic, and this is me acknowledging that there are a) decent guys and b) I don't want them hurt. (Not always easy for me.)

A couple of additions. Some from my own experience, on the receiving end. And, while I'm mostly writing to men to keep them from over-stepping boundaries with women that they may not have considered, I think it probably applies to women and other genders, too.

--Do not sneak up behind a girl/woman. Even if you know her. Especially not in an isolated place. Don't poke, tickle, or grab her. Do not try to scare her. No matter how "funny", "cute", or "clever" you think it is, or think *you* are.

(IME, some normally decent guys can be totally and completely clueless about this.)

--Do not put your hands around a girl's/woman's neck to choke her, whether pretend, playfully, or seriously. And if you find out that you spaced out or lost time while doing that, {get thee to a therapist immediately. No excuses.

--Don't block a girl's/woman's way--on the street, on the stairs, on public transportation, at work, at school.

--Don't grade girls/women, put notches in your bedpost (figuratively or otherwise), compete over getting a girl/woman, or toss money at a woman or girl.

--In an elevator, don't stand close to a girl/woman--especially if you're the only ones there.

--If anyone tells you that the way you treat girls/women is way out of line, take them seriously--even if you think they're being over-sensitive spoilsports. You're lucky they're telling you, rather than beating the crap out of you. Seriously. Take the hint.

--Don't keep targeting a girl/woman, like she's a prize to win. Get a hobby.

--Don't take/hide her keys, purse, phone, etc.

--Don't offer her a ride home, if the purpose is to behave sexually with her--or if you think that's your deserved bonus for being a good guy.

--Don't pursue the babysitter.

--Don't assume that a girl/woman is "playing" hard to get. If she doesn't specifically, verbally say "Yes, I want to be involved with you", leave her the hell alone.

--Just be a *good* man.

[Votive]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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mr cheesy
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I'm not sure who you think you are talking to or how typing this list here is helping, GK.

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arse

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Golden Key
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mr cheesy--

It goes with my original list, which I also included in this recent post.

I suggested that "decent and trying-to-be-decent men" be extra circumspect, because it would be easy for the righteous anger at abusive men to spill over onto them.

I've also found, personally and repeatedly, that a lot of guys I know to normally be decent sometimes truly don't get where the boundaries are--ESPECIALLY if they think they are being funny. Sometimes, when a person thinks of something they find funny, everything else in their mind/brain seems to shut down. No behavioral filters. No empathy. No common sense. Even if they normally excel at those things. I've found that, after some guys have fallen into that "oh, I'm sooo brilliantly funny" trap, they have a really hard time understanding what they did was over the line. So, if they know ahead of time, and can avoid crossing the boundaries, life will be much easier for everyone concerned.

And...well, I'm in the "me, too" camp, and a good many things on those lists have happened to me. And all the news and revelations are triggering a lot of things with me, and I figured this was a positive way to deal with that.

FWIW, there are people who agreed with my original list.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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mr cheesy
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I understand, I just don't think your list is particularly helpful. And isn't really helping discussion here.

For example these two:

-- Don't keep targeting a girl/woman, like she's a prize to win. Get a hobby.

-- Don't assume that a girl/woman is "playing" hard to get. If she doesn't specifically, verbally say "Yes, I want to be involved with you", leave her the hell alone.

If I'd listened to these, I'd have never have met my wife properly.

We met briefly but not for long enough to exchange contact details. I had to use various other ways (bearing in mind this was more than 20 years ago and things like facebook didn't exist) to get back in contact.

At some level one has to go out on a bit of a limb in order to risk meeting someone. The problem is the point where that become stalking and/or creepy unwanted attention. I think almost everyone has to "target" a desired lover.

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arse

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Golden Key
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FWIW: I said "don't *keep* targeting". As in, over and over again.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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mr cheesy
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
FWIW: I said "don't *keep* targeting". As in, over and over again.

Almost everyone has to keep targetting a desired lover. What does this mean?

I suspect what you are intending to say is that if one gets the brush-off, then a "good man" realises that the lady isn't interested and stops pursuing her.

But it isn't as easy as that - which is another reason why posting a list isn't very helpful in-and-of itself. For example - many stalkers are people who previously were in a relationship with someone else, the relationship broke down and the person continued trying to get back together until the point where it became incredibly creepy, unwanted and horrible.

On the other hand, someone who is attracted to someone else and then tries to see them again (and again and again) but isn't given a direct instruction to stop is not necessarily being creepy. Quite often in human relationships things are ambiguous - and not everyone has the emotional intelligence to pick up signals (in both directions).

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arse

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Golden Key
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Re emotional IQ:

That's one reason the boundaries need to be pointed out.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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mr cheesy
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But the boundaries are not as simple as those suggested in your list.

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arse

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rolyn
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Whilst many accept there is a problem to be addressed here, an equal number realise this issue is indeed by no means clear cut.
I'm sure many men would like to be called good but is overly simplistic to group men into 'good' or 'bad'. Because if we do then it continues to baffle when observing women who reject relationships with the so-called good kindly type and gravitate towards the rather more disingenuous category.

This was the whole business with the trump pussy tape wasn’t it? A couple of reasons Americans didn’t outrightly dismiss him as a creepy perv were...
1/ he has a hot wife
2/ it must have been generally considered that those who'd formerly had their pussys grabbed by him were, 'up for it' as it were.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Leorning Cniht
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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:

2/ it must have been generally considered that those who'd formerly had their pussys grabbed by him were, 'up for it' as it were.

AKA a variant of the "but she was wearing a miniskirt" rape "defense".
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Brenda Clough
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The root assumption seems to be that women are black holes, mysterious and unfathomable beings. You poor man, you cannot know what we are thinking and therefore you have to keep on pestering us, looking for secret signal flags.

Could you instead treat us as adult human beings? Ask. "Is there a possibility of this going somewhere, or should I move on?" When she says no, believe her and seek elsewhere; do not ask again. If she says 'maybe,' then ask her what your next move should be. (If she says 'yes' then I assume you can manage the picking up of the ball and running yourself.)

And you will be aware, won't you? That sometimes she feels she cannot say no, because you're an employer, a teacher, a Congressman, because she's 14 years old. But at the very least you can ask out loud and get a verbal consent. That gets you past the 'grope her pussy' bar.

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Golden Key
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Brenda [Overused]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
FWIW: I said "don't *keep* targeting". As in, over and over again.

Almost everyone has to keep targetting a desired lover. What does this mean?

I suspect what you are intending to say is that if one gets the brush-off, then a "good man" realises that the lady isn't interested and stops pursuing her.

But it isn't as easy as that - which is another reason why posting a list isn't very helpful in-and-of itself. For example - many stalkers are people who previously were in a relationship with someone else, the relationship broke down and the person continued trying to get back together until the point where it became incredibly creepy, unwanted and horrible.

On the other hand, someone who is attracted to someone else and then tries to see them again (and again and again) but isn't given a direct instruction to stop is not necessarily being creepy. Quite often in human relationships things are ambiguous - and not everyone has the emotional intelligence to pick up signals (in both directions).

OK, so please stop saying targeted in defence of your position, it is creepy as fuck.
There is a distance between obvious stalker and innocent, but determined wooing; but there is also an overlap in the middle.
One problem I see is that people can see another person as a potential partner and then begin the pursuit. The problem with this is that the potential partner is not always viewed as a complete person, but a goal. Becoming a friend along the way is never part of the plan.

[ 18. November 2017, 02:02: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Leorning Cniht
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Another idiot completely fails to get the point. It's not about having lots of sex - it's about consent.

You can be a "red-blooded heterosexual male" and have lots of sex with a parade of enthusiastically willing young ladies, and there isn't a problem (well, not this problem. Promiscuity might also be a problem for people, but it's not at all the same problem.)

Having an affair is an "indiscretion". Sexual harassment is not an "indiscretion". To his credit, Al Franken seems to understand this given his apology. Judge O'Neill doesn't seem to see the difference.

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
OK, so please stop saying targeted in defence of your position, it is creepy as fuck.
There is a distance between obvious stalker and innocent, but determined wooing; but there is also an overlap in the middle.
One problem I see is that people can see another person as a potential partner and then begin the pursuit. The problem with this is that the potential partner is not always viewed as a complete person, but a goal. Becoming a friend along the way is never part of the plan.

I very much agree with all of this. I'd add that cultural traditions are highly problematic here. The dating culture of my youth seems to have largely disappeared, but the assumption behind it have not - men are still assumed to be the stronger actors in the beginning stages of relationships. Women used to wait to be asked out; now they wait for men to send them messages on dating sites. Obviously a lot of people have figured out that they don't need to do things this way, but the narratives in popular movies and books are a potent reminder of the highly gendered roles of pursuit, and it will take time to make that go away and replace it with a more egalitarian model of relationship building.
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Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
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My wife and I became friends before we started dating. I view this as a good thing because we tend to treat each other as partners.
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
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Back when I was younger, I was inexplicably 'pursued'. Entirely unreciprocated, and yet the pursuee remained adamant I was the One.

Awkward as fuck. Don't do it.

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Forward the New Republic

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Tubbs

Miss Congeniality
# 440

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
OK, so please stop saying targeted in defence of your position, it is creepy as fuck.
There is a distance between obvious stalker and innocent, but determined wooing; but there is also an overlap in the middle.
One problem I see is that people can see another person as a potential partner and then begin the pursuit. The problem with this is that the potential partner is not always viewed as a complete person, but a goal. Becoming a friend along the way is never part of the plan.

I very much agree with all of this. I'd add that cultural traditions are highly problematic here. The dating culture of my youth seems to have largely disappeared, but the assumption behind it have not - men are still assumed to be the stronger actors in the beginning stages of relationships. Women used to wait to be asked out; now they wait for men to send them messages on dating sites. Obviously a lot of people have figured out that they don't need to do things this way, but the narratives in popular movies and books are a potent reminder of the highly gendered roles of pursuit, and it will take time to make that go away and replace it with a more egalitarian model of relationship building.
Not so much an overlap as the potential for things to go either way depending on the situation and the people involved.

A determined wooer moves on if the person they’re attempting to woo gives them no encouragement or tells them to go away. They give it a go, but accept the other person has agency and may not want the same outcome as them.

The stalker takes no hints, however blunt, or any account of the other person’s feelings / situation. They are convinced if they keep at it they will eventually get what they want.

We definitely need a different dating model. And movies / TV needs to stop normalising behaviour that in normal circumstances would be deeply weird.

Tubbs

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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am

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Golden Key
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And now journalist Charlie Rose. (Am currently listening to the PBS Newshour on the radio.)

[Waterworks]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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Finally, someone proposes a solution that I think will actually work. Of course these allegations are being weaponized. Here's how to cut that off at the knees.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 5673 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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Non-disclosure agreements are simply hush-money, and have no place in this, or any world.

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Forward the New Republic

Posts: 8854 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Alex Cockell

Ship’s penguin
# 7487

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What do i do with the naggng despair that I as an autistic male virgin at 40 don't know the first thing about what to do if ai was ever presented with possible signals of interest- and may not know what they are.. but the testosterone is blasting away and i feel that knot of despair of ever experiencing that thing Successful Men experience.. when a couple finally unite and that is written about in Song of Songs?

I don't want to do wrong - but I also don't want to die a virgin...

Posts: 2136 | From: Reading, Berkshire UK | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by Alex Cockell:
What do i do with the naggng despair that I as an autistic male virgin at 40 don't know the first thing about what to do if ai was ever presented with possible signals of interest- and may not know what they are.. but the testosterone is blasting away and i feel that knot of despair of ever experiencing that thing Successful Men experience.. when a couple finally unite and that is written about in Song of Songs?

I don't want to do wrong - but I also don't want to die a virgin...

The word but absolutely, in the strongest possible sense and with the utmost emphasis, does not belong in that sentence.
Sex is a not a guaranteed right to every individual, nor is the "Successful Men" experience.
The sentence, as structured, implies that the first part is conditional on the second. This may well not be the way you mean it, I don't wish to imply it is.
However, it is the priority of the selfish of the rights of others that is part of the problem we are discussing.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 16960 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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I believe the SoF Commandments prevent the giving of personal advice. So I will only point out that the solution must be found locally, close to you. By definition having (partnered) sex involves being in proximity to a partner.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I believe the SoF Commandments prevent the giving of personal advice. So I will only point out that the solution must be found locally, close to you. By definition having (partnered) sex involves being in proximity to a partner.

Willing partner. This, apparently, cannot be emphasised enough.

And the last sentence of my previous post should read - 'However, it is the priority of the selfish over the rights of others that is part of the problem we are discussing.'

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 16960 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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There is a movement (can't find the link) to adjust the definition and make it accurate.
Sex, by definition, means consensual. If it's not consensual, it's not sex. It's assault, rape, a crime, harassment, etc. Only the good and pleasant meanings adhere to the word; bad actions are no longer permitted to masquerade under it.
Thus, by this definition, Roy Moore was never trolling the shopping malls hoping to have sex. He was hoping to assault a 14-year-old girl. Donald Trump was never sexy. He was ogling and groping helpless women.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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hosting/

quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I believe the SoF Commandments prevent the giving of personal advice. So I will only point out that the solution must be found locally, close to you.

Just to clarify this, the Ship's FAQs say this:
quote:
The Ship is not an adequate stand-in for counselling services. Posts which seek to elicit such responses are strongly discouraged, and repeated posts along those lines will be deleted
Y'all's attention is drawn to this and the rest of the FAQ on sharing about personal circumstances.

All of you, please engage your brains extra specially before posting again on personal stuff - or refraining from doing so.

/hosting

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

Posts: 17186 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Alex Cockell:

I don't want to do wrong - but I also don't want to die a virgin...

The word but absolutely, in the strongest possible sense and with the utmost emphasis, does not belong in that sentence.
[..]
The sentence, as structured, implies that the first part is conditional on the second. This may well not be the way you mean it, I don't wish to imply it is.

That's not how I parse Alex's sentence.

My reading of Alex's post is that he doesn't want to miss out on an opportunity that is being offered though an excessive abundance of caution.
That it would be easy to avoid committing sexual assault by avoiding all sexual behaviour completely, but that he, quite understandably, doesn't want to do that, which leaves Alex in a huge mental tangle over what to do if he thinks someone might want to engage in adult activities with him, but isn't sure.

Euty's post about the Ship not being a substitute for counselling is correct, and that's not what I offer here. But in the spirit of a group of friends at the bar, I'll take a long draught of my beer, and offer the suggestion that if you go slow, and explicitly ask if you're not sure what signals you're being presented with, then you won't go wrong.

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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
That's not how I parse Alex's sentence.

My reading of Alex's post is that he doesn't want to miss out on an opportunity that is being offered though an excessive abundance of caution.

Pedantically, but is used to contradict or modify the preceding statement. Using and would have been a clearer choice, regardless.
However, I’d did say I didn’t want to assume.
Dating, for the unsure, is a fraught affair. False expectations, such as the “Successful Men experience” certainly don’t help.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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Alex may also simply have meant that sex outside of marriage is proclaimed to be wrong; he doesn't want to do anything wrong; but he doesn't wish to remain a virgin.

From what he said, and from what I've seen from his posts over the years, I don't think he's referring to doing anything non-consensual. He simply has a rough time picking up on signals, because of his autism.

[Votive]

I wonder...would it be wise to start an All Saints thread for this branch of the discussion? There's a little more leeway there for personal matters.

FWIW.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17994 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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I can only offer Alex sympathy and reflect that navigating this is a minefield for people with autism.

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arse

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I can only offer Alex sympathy and reflect that navigating this is a minefield for people with autism.

It is. I am married to the only woman I ever dated, who I met when I was 25. I was lucky.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17624 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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What in the wide world of sports makes ugly old men think that women want to see them naked? If your being a rich, powerful congressman in an expensive suit and tie doesn't interest her, seeing all your saggy parts, moles and white flabby flesh will not change her mind. Trust me on this.
Posts: 6691 | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Alex Cockell

Ship’s penguin
# 7487

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I can only offer Alex sympathy and reflect that navigating this is a minefield for people with autism.

Yup.

Add to that how I'm hauling myself back from the very gravemouth - after 30 years of suicidal eating (you know the story). It's difficult to believe oneself as "attractive" and somehow magic up this "confidence" I am supposed to have from nowhere...

Add knee damage from carting around all the excess weight... and after all that internalising of sex-neg.. and get hammered by even more of it...

[ 23. November 2017, 12:59: Message edited by: Alex Cockell ]

Posts: 2136 | From: Reading, Berkshire UK | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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Alex C--

Would it be possible for you to talk to a therapist? At least for a few sessions?

I'm in therapy for other things, and I know that it helps me a lot to vent, let everything out, and have someone there who can help me figure out what to do next.

If you already have a therapist, great. I'm not trying to push you away from talking to us. But a therapist can be there just for *you*, uninterrupted, and has skills we don't.

[Votive]

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17994 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged



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