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Source: (consider it) Thread: Buddhism and Christianity Compatible
Jengie jon

Semper Reformanda
# 273

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That is your understandings of 'work'. Yes you have interpretations but for us there is not a single only satisfying correct interpretation. You can produce coherency but from my liberal perspective there is often more light to be gained from where things do not fit.

Again please do not tell me what my tradition says.

Jengie

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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge

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Posts: 20715 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jengie jon

Semper Reformanda
# 273

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Right LilBuddha for over thirty years I have tried to consistently read through all of the standard Protestant Bible and for part of that time it included the Apocrypha. I have also read and used commentaries from a wide range of backgrounds and have applied a wide range of different Bible interpretative techniques. I have even tried to learn Greek to improve my knowledge of the Bible. Alone and with others I have consistently joined in the search to look for what is God saying through scripture. I have also listened to many others who have sought to proclaim the Word. I am high end but not exceptional in the tradition I stand in even as a non-cleric. No doubt I have got it wrong as often as right but I am always trying again.

In doing this interaction with scripture, I am not trying to read off a single coherent narrative or set of doctrine. That would be to constrain God. What I see is the messiness of people trying to communicate an experience of the divine and often getting it wrong. The text works not by giving answers but by giving space to try and understand their encounter. Of course it is inconsistent. Some of that is because we get it wrong. Some of that is that the divine cannot really be contained in human experience let alone an account of human experience. Some of it is simply lack of comprehension.

I suppose I take seriously John Robinson's popular Quote from an account of his Farewell to Leyden Speech
quote:
...he[John Robinson] charged us before God and his blessed angels, to follow him no further than he followed Christ; and if God should reveal anything to us by any other instrument of his, to be as ready to receive it, as ever we were to receive any truth by his ministry; for he was very confident the Lord had more truth and light yet to break forth out of his holy word
With such a heritage there can never be a single authoritative interpretation. It is an ongoing act of revelation not a final word.

All I try to do is bear witness to the sometimes glorious, sometimes paradoxical and sometimes dissonant interaction with the Divine I experience through bringing my life into contact with the Bible.

Jengie

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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge

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Posts: 20715 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
That is your understandings of 'work'. Yes you have interpretations but for us there is not a single only satisfying correct interpretation. You can produce coherency but from my liberal perspective there is often more light to be gained from where things do not fit.

I do not mean to offend, but I cannot make sense from this statement.
quote:

Again please do not tell me what my tradition says.

Jengie

i am not telling you what your tradition says. I am saying that there are inconsistencies in the Bible and that all traditions have work arounds. How you address, ignore or otherwise deal with that is up to you. I’m not saying anything that Christians have not said and I cannot help that you do not like this.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Enoch
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# 14322

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Jengie, whatever LilBuddha may be saying,it makes sense to me and I'm finding it inspiring. Thank you.
[Overused]

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sharkshooter

Not your average shark
# 1589

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quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:

Again please do not tell me what my tradition says.


This is one of the most startling thing about the Ship. The tendency of people to spout off on what other people believe. It is worse than annoying, I find it offensive. This is only one thread where this is happening on a regular basis.

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Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. [Psalm 19:14]

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by sharkshooter:
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:

Again please do not tell me what my tradition says.


This is one of the most startling thing about the Ship. The tendency of people to spout off on what other people believe. It is worse than annoying, I find it offensive. This is only one thread where this is happening on a regular basis.
You are aware that this is a place of discussion, not proclamation? And it is, at least generally, of a religious nature?
If I say you, sharkshooter, really believe X despite you saying Y; then I am rude. If I point out, in a conversation about religion that you voluntarily join, that I think there is contradiction within the materials and teachings, how is that rude? Especially when it isn't an uncommon POV within your own community.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 17101 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
quetzalcoatl
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# 16740

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If I say that Christianity or Buddhism are complete bollocks, is that rude? I don't see why. It's different from saying to one individual that their ideas are bollocks, but even then, that seems OK to me.

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the main fear that flat-earthers face is sphere itself.

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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hosting/

quote:
Originally posted by sharkshooter:
This is one of the most startling thing about the Ship. The tendency of people to spout off on what other people believe. It is worse than annoying, I find it offensive. This is only one thread where this is happening on a regular basis.

Sharkshooter, if despite Commandment 5, you find yourself offended, the place to talk about it is Hell. Not here.

If you have complaints about how threads are being hosted, the place to complain is the Styx. Not here.

Everybody: please dial down the rhetoric, take special care to avoid anything that could be construed as a personal attack, and take any remaining personal differences to Hell.

/hosting

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
If I say that Christianity or Buddhism are complete bollocks, is that rude? I don't see why. It's different from saying to one individual that their ideas are bollocks, but even then, that seems OK to me.

What is felt to be rude is going to vary a bit.
If you say someone’s religion is bollocks unasked, I think that would be rude. If you say it is bollocks during a discussion without any reasoning, it could be rude. If you say it is bollocks during a discussion and give your reasons why, it is not rude. Especially not on a website that bills itself as unrestful.
I find it difficult to see how what I have been saying on this thread is rude and I hope how I’ve been saying it isn’t perceived so.

[ 04. December 2017, 16:38: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 17101 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

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Tortuf wrote:

quote:
So, where I disagree with you is the necessity of learning how to become open to the divine. I think humans all have to learn how to reject ego so that they can truly experience God. We learn early on how to put ego in charge. Ego filters God, therefore learning how to reject ego allows a clearer view of God. It's like wiping schmutz off of my glasses.

The fruits of learning how to experience God for me lie in no longer worrying about what will happen when I die. I know that God is here - right now - always. I know that God loves me just the way I am. I don't have to change anything to be loved by God because love is the nature of God.

This is terrific stuff that you are writing. I would only make several points - some people seem able to just slide off the ego without a lot of effort, just as some people are able to love.

In some Eastern religions, the erosion of ego, is followed by a further acceptance of it, as also part of the divine. I'm trying to think of a famous saying on this, well, 'samsara is nirvana', will do.* When the discriminating mind ceases, then the dual ceases. Some of the Hindu mystics seem drunk on this, as every detail is divine, even the mosquito bites. But the West loves its separations.

* Just the proviso that nirvana does not equal the divine.

[ 04. December 2017, 16:49: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]

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the main fear that flat-earthers face is sphere itself.

Posts: 9707 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
If I say that Christianity or Buddhism are complete bollocks, is that rude?

Yes.

quote:
I don't see why.
Then you need to learn about how people feel about their personal beliefs, and how it feels to them to have them described with a rude term.

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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sharkshooter

Not your average shark
# 1589

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
hosting/

quote:
Originally posted by sharkshooter:
This is one of the most startling thing about the Ship. The tendency of people to spout off on what other people believe. It is worse than annoying, I find it offensive. This is only one thread where this is happening on a regular basis.

Sharkshooter, if despite Commandment 5, you find yourself offended, the place to talk about it is Hell. Not here.

If you have complaints about how threads are being hosted, the place to complain is the Styx. Not here.

Everybody: please dial down the rhetoric, take special care to avoid anything that could be construed as a personal attack, and take any remaining personal differences to Hell.

/hosting

Please accept my apologies.

--------------------
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. [Psalm 19:14]

Posts: 7752 | From: Canada; Washington DC; Phoenix; it's complicated | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784

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Thank you quetzalcoatl. I take your point about ego coming back.

In my case I still have a substantial ego. I am simply learning when it is my ego's self centered fear that is in charge, or the healthy kind of ego where I know that I have abilities and can accomplish things when I seek appropriate guidance and help.

Everyone's mileage obviously varies. For me shedding bad ego has not resulted in any change in God, or how God relates to me. Indeed I have found that God has always been reaching out to me, even when I didn't like myself. Shedding bad ego (as much as I can anyway) has been roughly equivalent to cleaning the lenses of my glasses.

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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740

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I saw a great interview with a Tibetan teacher, who had been in meditation for 40 years or something like that, and the journalist said, after all that time, you must have shrunk the shadow to a dot. (Shadow meaning all the murky stuff in the psyche). And the teacher said, no, shadow now enormous.

One of those paradoxes.

Since I stopped being a Christian, I have been amazed to see all the God-intoxication in different religions. There is a kind of core, which abuts them all. In the non-dual, you are the core, you are love, you are the Christ.

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the main fear that flat-earthers face is sphere itself.

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Enoch
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# 14322

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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
... Since I stopped being a Christian, I have been amazed to see all the God-intoxication in different religions. ...

Is that really that amazing? Is it any more grounds for amazement than going along to a meeting of trainspotters and then saying they spend all their time talking about trains and going to places where they can collect numbers?

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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

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quetzalcoatl
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
... Since I stopped being a Christian, I have been amazed to see all the God-intoxication in different religions. ...

Is that really that amazing? Is it any more grounds for amazement than going along to a meeting of trainspotters and then saying they spend all their time talking about trains and going to places where they can collect numbers?
Ah well, the fault is mine. I had spiritual cataracts, but praise to Chthulu, they have been raised.

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the main fear that flat-earthers face is sphere itself.

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