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Source: (consider it) Thread: Oprah 2020
Gramps49
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This has been touched on on the Trump thread, but I hope we can have another thread about here.

She has a lot of cred in the Democratic Party.

She speaks for a lot of women nationwide.

Even Herr Drump said at one time he had considered her for VP but decided against that.

The negatives, as I see them:

She is 63 years old, 65 by the time the next presidential election rolls around. We just do not need another Baby Boomer in the office IMHO.

Her partner and she are not married. If she is going to get any traction in conservative states and even some liberal areas, that will have to be addressed.

She is an entertainer. Yes, we have had entertainers before: Ronald Reagan and Herr Drump come to mind, but look at how their administrations have been.

The ideal candidate for me would be someone who knows the ropes in Washington DC, who is a Gen X or Millennial, and who has stood up to big money interests.

Does matter which race or which gender.

If Oprah does through her hat in the ring, let the primary system winnow out all the chaff and may the best person win.

If she does come out of the primaries on top. I will vote for her, though.

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Rossweisse

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She has no - zero, zip, none, null - experience in government.

At least she's an actual businessperson, though, as opposed to a real estate developer, which is to say a habitual cheat. I would still prefer someone who has dealt with real-world issues while in office.

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Ohher
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Let's start with someone who at least has cast a comprehending glance or two at the U.S. Constitution. While I'm guessing that might include Oprah, we need candidates with both political savvy and governmental experience.

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Rossweisse

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Yes, to have some concept of the Constitution would be a Good Thing. (And if someone had told me I'd write such a sentence two years ago, I'd have laughed. Silly me.)

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simontoad
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Would someone like Oprah get any traction running as an independent?

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lilBuddha
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Trump has a good chance of winning re-election.
If you want someone else to have a chance of defeating him, it has to be a man.
Given the demographics of the actual voters in the US, a woman is at a major deficit. Trump's victory is in large part due to Hillary being a woman.
A black woman? You really think a country that elected a man who made massively racist statements in his announcement of his candidacy and massively sexist things during his campaign is going to elect a black woman?
Obama's win gave me hope for America; Trump's crushed it.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
Would someone like Oprah get any traction running as an independent?

The US is a two party system. The only way an independent can win is by out muscling one of the two parties. And, as Oprah is going to be closer to a Dem than a Republican't, she would have to out muscle both parties. What she would do as an independent would be to split the already in trouble lefty vote.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

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Stetson
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buddhawrote:

quote:
A black woman? You really think a country that elected a man who made massively racist statements in his announcement of his candidacy and massively sexist things during his campaign is going to elect a black woman?
Obama's win gave me hope for America; Trump's crushed it.


You might have been overestimating the social signficance of both Obama's and Trump's elections. The number of bigots and non-bigots probably hasn't changed much since Obama won his last election in 2012. What changed between elections is things like how motivated people from the respective parties were to came out and vote, as well as how many people from one party switched over to the other party, and not neccessarily because they had suddenly become racist.

And then toss in the electoral college, which this time around had the effect of amplifying the influence of certain rust-belt voters(a fair number of them former Obama supporters) who got conned into believing the Republican Party would let Trump pursue an interventionist policy on factory closures.

As an example, I come from what is considered the most right-wing province in Canada(the historical reality is actually a bit more complicated, but the reputation is broadly accurate). Alabama North is one of the nicknames. Last election, however, the voters gave a majority to a socialist party of the Bernie Sanders variety. But I don't think a whole swackload of people in the province suddenly converted from right-wing craziness to democratic socialism. A lot of other factors were at play there.

[ 09. January 2018, 03:44: Message edited by: Stetson ]

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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
She is an entertainer. Yes, we have had entertainers before: Ronald Reagan and Herr Drump come to mind, but look at how their administrations have been.

Full of criminals and suspected criminals, and disastrous for the working people of America?

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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Stetson
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^^ And FWIW, no, running Oprah for president would be a bad idea. Not neccessarily because she's a black woman(unless you want to believe the nation that birthed the KKK and Jim Crow would vote for a black man, but draw the line on gender), but just because she's nowhere near being a suitable candidate.

And I don't buy the logic of "Well, Trump was pretty unsuitable, and that didn't hurt hurt him." That's like deciding to get bombed out of your skull before a job interview, because you heard that last year the CEO's nephew got hired for a job when he was drunk for the interview, so obviously this company will always hire drunk employees.

[ 09. January 2018, 03:59: Message edited by: Stetson ]

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Gramps49
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History shows that independents will weaken one party or the other. John Anderson ran as an independent in 1980 siphoning votes from the Republican Party.

Should Oprah run as an independent, she would siphon votes from the Democrats.

Sanders had long been an independent Senator, caucusing with the Democrats, but when he ran for president he went full on with the Democratic party. I happen to think after he had been defeated (unethically in my book) he knew full well he would destroy any chance to defeat Herr Drump if he decided to go independent.

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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
^^ And FWIW, no, running Oprah for president would be a bad idea. Not neccessarily because she's a black woman(unless you want to believe the nation that birthed the KKK and Jim Crow would vote for a black man, but draw the line on gender),

I can well believe that, frankly.

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Gramps49
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I do not think gender is that much of an issue now because I have never seen the women's movement so energized as it is now. Last year there was the Pussy Hat movement. Then there is the #MeToo movement. Come 20 January there will be women's marches throughout the US though some places are choosing to postpone the march, I think because of a gay pride march already scheduled in those areas.
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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
^^ And FWIW, no, running Oprah for president would be a bad idea. Not neccessarily because she's a black woman(unless you want to believe the nation that birthed the KKK and Jim Crow would vote for a black man, but draw the line on gender), but just because she's nowhere near being a suitable candidate.

Well, yes. But also Obama won in part because of the recession. The American economy isn't doing too badly right now.
quote:

And I don't buy the logic of "Well, Trump was pretty unsuitable, and that didn't hurt hurt him."

In modern American politics, the incumbent has a massive advantage, regardless of approval ratings.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Golden Key
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For the most part, I don't think she's qualified. No gov't experience. Not sure if she went to college--that's not a deal-breaker, but it might give us some insight into what and how much she knows about the world. She hasn't been in therapy, despite a background for which it might be very helpful. That's not a big deal. However, she said her talk show was her therapy. IMHO, that sometimes interfered with the show, because *she* had to understand everything guests said, and *she* had to announce her opinion and judgement of the guests and what they said. ISTM it was very much waiting for a queen to rule. If she still operates that way, it might trip her up in her presidential work.

There might be a religious problem: she's definitely spiritual, but she may not be a Christian. If that's the case, she'll catch a lot of flack.

OTOH: In public, she's good with people. She's a powerful, self-made rich woman. She's well-known, well-liked, even well-loved. And respected. She's been in a committed relationship for many years. She started a girls' school in Africa. (Though something went wrong--abusive staff, maybe???) She reads and writes--both in terms of doing and capacity. She has stage presence.

Marry Stedman, her partner? Doubtful. They talked about it, many years ago, but decided not to.

Her BFF Gayle might be at the White House a lot.

Her race might be an issue for some; but never underestimate how popular she is, especially with women.

**BTW, she gave one heck of a "Time's Up" speech at the Golden Globes awards last night.** That alone could swing voters her way.

I don't think she should be president, but she might make an excellent ambassador, or something at the UN. But ISTM she likes to make her own decisions, and that could be problematic.

FWIW.

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Og, King of Bashan

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Why would Oprah want to be President?

She has her own network. She has her own magazine that has her on the cover every month. She is loaded, and seems genuinely interested in using her wealth to improve the world. She has the power to inspire millions of people. She had at least a hand in getting the first black person elected President.

What on earth does the White House have to offer her, even if we look from a completely vocation-driven humanitarian perspective? Can't she do more good on her own, without having to get bogged down in the nasty business of budget reconciliations and approving drone strikes?

It was a great speech, and the reaction tells us just how hungry a lot of people are for an inspiring, decent voice in the White House. But I'll be shocked if she actually runs.

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Ian Climacus

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quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
I do not think gender is that much of an issue now because I have never seen the women's movement so energized as it is now.

I'm not as optimistic as you. I think sexism is still fairly rife in society and in men's minds and actions. At least down here in the colonies.

edit: clarification

[ 09. January 2018, 04:33: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]

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Gramps49
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Oprah did go to Tennessee State University, a black institution, but I do not know if she finished.

She was raised Baptist, but I would describe her current spiritual life as post-church. She has said "I have church with myself: I have church walking down the street. I believe in the God force that lives inside all of us, and once you tap into that, you can do anything."

Considering how many millennials and gen z people are nons or atheists, I don't think her religious views would have any impact on them. Gen Xers are in the middle of the road, Baby Boomers and what is left of the Greatest Generation would probably have the most problem. It certianly will be used against her in deep red states.

[ 09. January 2018, 04:37: Message edited by: Gramps49 ]

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Trudy Scrumptious

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Speaking as a non-US observer: why on earth would the US want to elect an entertainer with no government experience as president just because she supports some of the same causes you agree with and you liked a speech she gave?? Because it's working out so well NOW????

Half the problem with Trump, for liberals, is the right-wing planks in his platform and the right-wing nutbars he enables. The other half of the Trump problem, the half which should be a problem for liberals AND conservatives (and is a problem for some of the never-Trump Republicans, the ones who haven't gone strangely silent) is his incompetence and lack of preparedness for the job.

Only one of those problems would be better under (I can't believe I'm typing this) President Oprah.

If any significant number of Democrats get behind an Oprah 2020 run, to me it just suggests they're every bit as dumb as the MAGA people -- they're just as willing to endorse a problematic and inexperienced celebrity on the basis of star power, a stirring speech, and a few shared opinions.

A party that has senators like Kamala Harris, Kirsten Gillibrand, Cory Booker, Sherrod Brown, Tammy Duckworth ... to name the first five that popped into my head ... does not need to line up behind a daytime TV host who has used her platform and wealth to do a couple of good things (as well as some terrible things like promoting "Dr" Oz the snake-oil salesman). What a dumb idea.

I try not to participate in the usual Canadian sport of "We're so much better than our neighbours to the south" but it is worth noting that in our opposition party's recent leadership race, the "celebrity candidate" who thought he could waltz into the job on the basis of his business background and TV star status was so unpopular he dropped out before the leadership vote even happened. That's exactly the contempt with which an Oprah presidential run should be treated, even if one does agree with her on some points.

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no prophet's flag is set so...

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Perhaps politics is entertainment now. Just not very good entertainment. Waiting for the musical myself.
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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
Speaking as a non-US observer: why on earth would the US want to elect an entertainer with no government experience as president just because she supports some of the same causes you agree with and you liked a speech she gave?? Because it's working out so well NOW????

Half the problem with Trump, for liberals, is the right-wing planks in his platform and the right-wing nutbars he enables. The other half of the Trump problem, the half which should be a problem for liberals AND conservatives (and is a problem for some of the never-Trump Republicans, the ones who haven't gone strangely silent) is his incompetence and lack of preparedness for the job.

Only one of those problems would be better under (I can't believe I'm typing this) President Oprah.

If any significant number of Democrats get behind an Oprah 2020 run, to me it just suggests they're every bit as dumb as the MAGA people -- they're just as willing to endorse a problematic and inexperienced celebrity on the basis of star power, a stirring speech, and a few shared opinions.

A party that has senators like Kamala Harris, Kirsten Gillibrand, Cory Booker, Sherrod Brown, Tammy Duckworth ... to name the first five that popped into my head ... does not need to line up behind a daytime TV host who has used her platform and wealth to do a couple of good things (as well as some terrible things like promoting "Dr" Oz the snake-oil salesman). What a dumb idea.

I try not to participate in the usual Canadian sport of "We're so much better than our neighbours to the south" but it is worth noting that in our opposition party's recent leadership race, the "celebrity candidate" who thought he could waltz into the job on the basis of his business background and TV star status was so unpopular he dropped out before the leadership vote even happened. That's exactly the contempt with which an Oprah presidential run should be treated, even if one does agree with her on some points.

Trudy, you've expressed what I think better than I could. Your two halves of the problem is succinct and bang on. Thank you.

For me that gets two of these.
[Overused] [Overused]

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Brenda Clough
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Post commentator Jennifer Rubin explains what Oprah would need to do if she's serious.

However, as she says, "Trump has ruined presidential politics for the uninitiated celebrity. We’re a lot more leery of non-politician presidential candidates than we were before Trump ran, extending even to any number of businesspeople who would be dramatically more fit for the presidency than he. The myth that a businessman has some secret sauce to make the government run better has been punctured. We are all too aware that success in one arena does not necessarily transfer to another."

Oprah may be a wonderful person, a great speaker, a superb TV host. But I would not hire her to drill on my teeth. For some jobs, I want an experienced professional with a track record I can inspect.

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Stetson
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From Slate...

Oprah has a history of promoting charlatans

And I'll throw in her endorsement of the Satanic Panic in the late 80s.

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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
I do not think gender is that much of an issue now because I have never seen the women's movement so energized as it is now. Last year there was the Pussy Hat movement. Then there is the #MeToo movement. Come 20 January there will be women's marches throughout the US though some places are choosing to postpone the march, I think because of a gay pride march already scheduled in those areas.

The women's movement is energized because it has to be. Because gender is that much of an issue. If Gender were not much of an issue in our society right now, the woman's movement would silently die out. Women are fighting back because they're getting the short end in many ways and in many places. In short, the symptom you observe points to exactly the opposite situation than you have diagnosed.

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Golden Key
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np--

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Perhaps politics is entertainment now. Just not very good entertainment. Waiting for the musical myself.

The musical "Hamilton". The musical/film "1776". Both very good. ("Hamilton" is still too expensive for mere mortals to see, but there are clips online. And PBS did a sort of "the making of" show.)

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--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
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Golden Key
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mt--

Good post about gender still being an issue.


Trudy--

I'm not endorsing Oprah, but there are at least 2 differences between her and T: TTBOMK, she's both sane and functional.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Stetson
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
TTBOMK, she's both sane and functional.

You really should have seen her moderating the aforementioned shows on Satanic Ritual Abuse in the late 80s. Granted, one can possibly parse a difference between "insane" and "willing to believe the most obviously ridiculous claims possible and to encourage her audience to believe them as well".

[ 10. January 2018, 04:54: Message edited by: Stetson ]

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Anglican_Brat
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The problem with Oprah is that whereas Donald Trump revels in conflict, Oprah seems to go the opposite extreme and avoids conflict by not taking controversial stances on political issues. There is a good reason for that from a business perspective, you don't want to tick customers off, but from a political perspective, an inability to take a stand, can be perceived as weak.

For example, I expect that the next Democratic party internal debate would be over healthcare, whether it should continue the incremental move towards universal healthcare through at least temporarily accepting the role of private insurance, or go through throttle towards mandated single-payer insurance and eliminate or substantively reduce private insurance. I don't think the next Democratic candidate can get away without taking a clear position on this issue, and certainly Oprah will come off as weak and indecisive if she states 1) a decision should be made after careful consultation and dialogue or 2) that is something for congress to decide.

An Oprah candidacy is problematic from the left's perspective. She has made her fortune and success through the American capitalist system, would she seriously be able to deal with Republican attacks on social assistance who will cite her success story as proof that poor people and African Americans do not need government support to succeed?

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Tubbs

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To me the biggest problem with Oprah running is that it re-enforces the idea that the only people who can become President are celebs. Which may not be the message you want people to get.

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RuthW

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
I do not think gender is that much of an issue now because I have never seen the women's movement so energized as it is now. Last year there was the Pussy Hat movement. Then there is the #MeToo movement. Come 20 January there will be women's marches throughout the US though some places are choosing to postpone the march, I think because of a gay pride march already scheduled in those areas.

The women's movement is energized because it has to be. Because gender is that much of an issue. If Gender were not much of an issue in our society right now, the woman's movement would silently die out. Women are fighting back because they're getting the short end in many ways and in many places. In short, the symptom you observe points to exactly the opposite situation than you have diagnosed.
EXACTLY! (And yes, I'm shouting!) Thank you, mousethief.

The notion that Oprah Winfrey could run for president enrages me. There are so many people who have dedicated their lives to public service while she has made a fortune catering to people's silly and shallow feelings about what might make their lives more comfortable and promoting charlatans like Mehmet Oz. Let's choose from the pool of qualified folks this time.

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Enoch
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RuthW, I'm not particularly happy with the idea that high office should be seen as a reward for somebody who has dedicated their life to public service. Two of the really essential prerequisites for high office should be governmental competence and personal integrity.

I don't know enough about Oprah Winfrey to know how she stands on the second, but as far as I'm aware, she's not so far done anything that would provide any evidence of the first.


Making an impassioned speech that presses the right symbolic buttons to inspire a segment of public opinion, is definitely not enough to make up for the absence of that. It's a very bad idea to think it's even relevant.

Tangent alert
To my eyes, all the evidence both before and since his election point to the Orange Cookie-Monster not meeting either of those two prerequisites.

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Brenda Clough
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Jennifer Rubin, in that Post link upthread, points out that if -any- celeb wants to run for president, there are things they should do immediately. Things like:

=Divest from all businesses, media empires, etc. It'll give you a priceless weapon when you run against the current kleptocrat administration.

=Start organizing the blind trusts, for all the money you're going to get from that divestiture. Tidy up your taxes -now-; you're going to have to release the returns and it'll take several years.

=Begin the 'I am serious' work. Visit foreign capitals and meet with officials, delineate your policies and stances on all the issues of the day, enlisting the help of smart experienced pros to bolster your credibility. No more hanging out with actors and yoga instructors, now you need economic wonks and people who can talk for an hour about water policy.

=Start policing your family and friends. The kids, haircuts and detox; your brothers, cousins, etc. out of criminous or shady careers and onto blander paths. Everybody drops the membership in the neo-Nazi groups as from today. Settle with your spouse whether he/she will stump for you or pull a full Melania.

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Stetson
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quote:
She has made her fortune and success through the American capitalist system, would she seriously be able to deal with Republican attacks on social assistance who will cite her success story as proof that poor people and African Americans do not need government support to succeed?
I don't know her family history at all, but I'd guess that she could probably somehow find a way to spin her success as at least partly due to New Deal and/or Great Society social-welfare programs. Sorta like Joe Biden tried to do(and might have succeeded, had he not stolen the the actual words of his speech from Neil Kinnock).
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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:

An Oprah candidacy is problematic from the left's perspective. She has made her fortune and success through the American capitalist system, would she seriously be able to deal with Republican attacks on social assistance who will cite her success story as proof that poor people and African Americans do not need government support to succeed?

She made her success despite the American capitalist system and she made it through entertainment. She is very much an exception in almost every way possible.
I think Seth McFarlane's take on it to be on the money.

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rolyn
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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Perhaps politics is entertainment now. Just not very good entertainment. Waiting for the musical myself.

You’ve got in one there NP....
T. entranced a bored and disillusioned Electorate with a circus act, (that of the clown). The Democrats are considering a fight back with the same strategy, not a clown but an entertainer nevertheless.
Difficult to predict the outcome of Elections in this the IT age, as we are now acutely aware. However, if I had to lay down money it wouldn’t be on an OW Presidency.

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Rossweisse

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
...Let's choose from the pool of qualified folks this time.

Amen, and thank you, Ruth.

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Gramps49
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Let me clarify what I meant when I said I did not think Oprah's gender will be an issue.

In the last election, the majority of non-college educated white women (64%) voted for Trump, while 35% backed Clinton. This figure is far higher than non-college educated black women, of which only 3% voted for Trump, and non-college educated Hispanic women, of which 25% voted for Trump. Black, Hispanic and other non-white women backed Clinton in far greater numbers.

Overall 54% of all women voted for Clinton, and 42% voted for Trump. But the key is the white women in certain states threw the electoral college to Trump.

In nearly every other presidential election if a woman was running the canard was she could not win because of her sex. The presidential and vice presidential offices seemed to be above a glass ceiling that could not be broken.

That is why I said I did not think gender will be an issue next time. I think more women will be turning out for the election. They will likely be the deciding factor in the election. The women's movement is energized, and that glass ceiling is going to be pulverized.

To tell the truth, I favor Elizabeth Warren. I do hope she will run. I would like to see Warren and Oprah in the primaries. Both will challenge each other: but, in the end, I could see the winner of the two pick the other for vice president.

[ 11. January 2018, 02:14: Message edited by: Gramps49 ]

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There are things I like about Elizabeth Warren, but I don't think her temperament is suited to the presidency. She can go from calmness to righteous fury in about 6 seconds. Very useful in Congress, and I think that's her best place.

Of course, compared with the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., she'd be a vast improvement.

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Egeria
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I don't like the idea of celebrities in politics (although there are exceptions--you'd have to call Kareem Abdul-Jabbar a celebrity, I guess, and I'd vote for him in a heartbeat).

I grew up in California when we had an ignorant, corrupt, racist, red-baiting, anti-intellectual, stupid, lying sack of Hollywood filth in the governor's office--yappity yappity yap non-stop about mostly imaginary hippies and pinkos and dope fiends, constant attacks on our great university , and stupid jokes aimed against the environment ("if you've seen one redwood you've seen them all"). So I have no time for Hollywood and its effluvia--it can sink into the Pacific for all I care.

The fact that Oprah has given a platform to the "Satanic panic" pushers who ruined countless lives with their lies, and that foul cretinous unfit parent Jenny McCarthy with her antivaccine nonsense, is enough to make me pray she stays out of politics altogether. Oprah only looks good next to the Repuke thieves and bigots--that doesn't make her a fit candidate for any public office.

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Gramps49
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I take it you are talking about Reagan?
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mousethief

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RuthW, you are welcome. Thanks for noticing.

quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
I take it you are talking about Reagan?

Or Arnold Schwartzenegger.

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Leorning Cniht
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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:

The notion that Oprah Winfrey could run for president enrages me. There are so many people who have dedicated their lives to public service while she has made a fortune catering to people's silly and shallow feelings about what might make their lives more comfortable and promoting charlatans like Mehmet Oz. Let's choose from the pool of qualified folks this time.

This, this, a thousand times this.

I don't think Oprah is a remotely suitable person to be President. The fact that she is significantly more qualified than the current incumbent doesn't alter that.

I'd think Oprah could do a great job using her position to stump for someone who was qualified.

Bernie Sanders will be 79 at the next election. I think that rules him out. Joe Biden is a similar age, and I also think too old.

I could see either Kamala Harris or Kirsten Gillibrand as viable candidates. Perhaps Chris Murphy if the Democrats are too scared to field a woman again. Booker will run, but he's too far to the right of the party economically to get much traction in the primaries.

There's really nobody on the list of current Democratic governors that I consider a viable presidential candidate.

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Ian Climacus

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Anyone who plugged the "The Secret" should never be allowed to run in my book.

I had colleagues going on about it for months.

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Ohher
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
Anyone who plugged the "The Secret" should never be allowed to run in my book.

I had colleagues going on about it for months.

The Secret was one of her book club thingies? Oh, feh. Ptui. Yecch. Gah.

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la vie en rouge
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For my money, Elizabeth Warren is Too. Old.

I firmly believe that the Democrats desperately need to find a capable younger candidate.

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chris stiles
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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:

Bernie Sanders will be 79 at the next election. I think that rules him out. Joe Biden is a similar age, and I also think too old.

I could see either Kamala Harris or Kirsten Gillibrand as viable candidates. Perhaps Chris Murphy if the Democrats are too scared to field a woman again.

I think it's not too implausible to imagine HC trying to run again.
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Brenda Clough
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No, I don't think Clinton would be such a fool.

I agree that a younger but dead serious candidate is the way to go. Biden and Sanders are past their sell-by date.

To believe that there is no innate sexism in politics shows a touchingly sweet nature, truly angelic. You are not observing the invective flung against female candidates.

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Ohher
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I fervently hope that's true, Brenda -- that Clinton isn't fool enough to run again. But I have wondered about her recent speaking engagements (one here where I live recently).

Unfortunately vast quantities of undeserved mud thrown her way during the campaign appear to have stuck. My son-in-law's parents, both otherwise reasonable, intelligent Democrats, seem to have decided that HRC is every bit as corrupt as the opposition painted her. I doubt they're alone in having soured on her.

And yes, the sexism in this country's politics and general culture is. Just. Breathtaking.

[ 11. January 2018, 15:11: Message edited by: Ohher ]

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jbohn
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quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I firmly believe that the Democrats desperately need to find a capable younger candidate.

This. A thousand times this.

quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
I think it's not too implausible to imagine HC trying to run again.

Unfortunately, you may be right. She still thinks it's her turn, as best I can tell - or at least her supporters that I know do.

I've about given up on both parties, to be honest. The Republicans are being led by crooks and right-wing whackjobs, and the Democrats can't seem to figure out that the times have changed.

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SecondRateMind
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Trump has a good chance of winning re-election.
If you want someone else to have a chance of defeating him, it has to be a man.
Given the demographics of the actual voters in the US, a woman is at a major deficit. Trump's victory is in large part due to Hillary being a woman.
A black woman? You really think a country that elected a man who made massively racist statements in his announcement of his candidacy and massively sexist things during his campaign is going to elect a black woman?
Obama's win gave me hope for America; Trump's crushed it.

So sad. But so true. But hey, maybe the US can learn from from the UK, and do the right thing, once it has exhausted all other possibilities. One lives in hope.

Cheers, 2RM

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