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Source: (consider it) Thread: Difficult relatives
anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189

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I'm starting this thread because I want to have a bitch on the topic, and to give others the opportunity to do likewise, and (oddly) I find myself a bit squeamish about the idea of writing "Today I condemn to hell" before going on about a family member...

So, anyway, difficult relatives - in this case, my mother, who sent me an email a few days ago couched in a tone I would label 'sniping'. These arrive every few months, and alert me to the fact that, somehow, I have done something to offend her. On this occasion, I have failed to bring the children to visit her over the holiday period, whereas all her friends have had their grandchildren to visit. Any attempt to explain only makes things worse for myself, thus:

Her: Why haven't you brought the children to visit over the holiday period?

Me:...?...because you didn't invite us?

Her: You should know by now that you don't need an invitation to visit me! I am quite happy to clear my schedule and rearrange things to accommodate you!*

Me: Also, I remember you saying when we were down visiting last** that you were very busy in January.

Her: Oh come on! You can't expect me to remember conversations from that long ago, at my age!***

Me: Well, anyway, it's done now, I have other activities planned for the kids, but let's hope we can do a better job of communicating around the next holiday period, so we don't have any more misunderstandings.

Her: I sincerely hope you actually mean that.

Me(to self): Now what the fuck is that supposed to mean?

And the worst of all is that I can't just elect to ignore it and hope it will all wash under the bridge when I get one of these communiques, because if I don't respond I get another barrage asking me why I haven't answered.

In the absence of a 'throwing up hands in frustration and marching out of the room' smilie, I am going to have to make do with this one: [brick wall] [brick wall] [brick wall]


*not wholly true
**a whole six weeks ago
***my mother has NOT entered advanced old age and her memory is completely fine

--------------------
When you listen to Bruce's music you are [no longer] a loser. You are a character in an epic poem...about losers.
- Jon Stewart on Bruce Springsteen -

Posts: 844 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged
Francophile
Shipmate
# 17838

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Oh for goodness sake, love her, she's your mother, you only get one and you won't have her for ever.

Be grateful.

Posts: 243 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2013  |  IP: Logged
Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076

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I'd be tempted to include the response script you give above in my reply, anoesis. [Biased]

[ 22. January 2014, 20:57: Message edited by: Gwai ]

--------------------
A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.


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Spike

Mostly Harmless
# 36

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Shit, is your relationship with your mum so bad you have to wait for an invitation before you visit? That's really sad.

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"People don’t become better when they’re dead; you just talk about them as if they are. But it’s not true! People are still arseholes, they’re just dead arseholes!” - Lemmy

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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189

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quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
Oh for goodness sake, love her, she's your mother, you only get one and you won't have her for ever.

Be grateful.

I do love her. I also get frustrated by her - as I think happens with all the people we love. I appreciate you may think it is bad form for me to discuss this sort of thing on a public forum, but these episodes have an effect on me, and I am hoping to be able to mitigate that (and actually get on and do something with my day rather than hand-wringing), having been able to vent.

I may not have her forever, but I fully expect her to live for another twenty or twenty-five years, and I don't want to spend all that time being told it is unreasonable in me to expect a measure of consistency in her behaviour and/or actions because she can't really be expected to remember things she said a month or so ago 'at her age'.

--------------------
When you listen to Bruce's music you are [no longer] a loser. You are a character in an epic poem...about losers.
- Jon Stewart on Bruce Springsteen -

Posts: 844 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged
Francophile
Shipmate
# 17838

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Not bad form, just dull and boring and depressing.

I also think it strange how you bright young things dote on your little darlings (also boring to the sad childless) and yet speak of the older generation so nastily.

I suppose you'll understand when you're old(er) and your kids have their own lives to lead and you're left out.

Posts: 243 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2013  |  IP: Logged
anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189

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quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
Shit, is your relationship with your mum so bad you have to wait for an invitation before you visit? That's really sad.

Well, I live several hours drive from her, so visiting necessarily involves staying a few nights - and I come bearing children, which her house is not really prepared for. So while I may not need an invitation, exactly, I certainly need to obtain an okay before turning up - I can't just arrive and expect to be fed and watered and housed without running it by her beforehand, can I?

I think the real answer, though, is that, no, most of the time, this relationship works just fine, and I sometimes propose visits to her, and sometimes they are proposed to me, and likewise with her visiting us, and its all okay. But when I get asked 'Why haven't you brought the grandchildren to visit me?' in a manner that implies some sort of dereliction of duty on my part, I wonder if bringing a little more formality into the relationship might actually be helpful, because at least then everyone would know how things stood - the easy, casual, approach has the potential to lead to assumptions, and cross-assumptions, and here we find ourselves, both kind of annoyed about something which is (I'm aware) nothing much, really. It's just that it happens a lot.

--------------------
When you listen to Bruce's music you are [no longer] a loser. You are a character in an epic poem...about losers.
- Jon Stewart on Bruce Springsteen -

Posts: 844 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged
Jane R
Shipmate
# 331

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Goodness, is someone holding a gun to Francophile's head and forcing him to read this? [Votive]

anoesis, you may regret opening this thread in Hell rather than All Saints. But FWIW I too have an Irritating Mother. She pampers Other Half outrageously when we go to stay with her and heaps extravagant praise on him every time he makes a cup of tea or helps with the washing up. This sets impossibly high standards (which I have no interest in matching, anyway; he irons his own shirts at home).

He thinks she's wonderful and gets very indignant when people try to tell him mother-in-law jokes.

[ 22. January 2014, 21:25: Message edited by: Jane R ]

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Kitten
Shipmate
# 1179

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If it's any consolation anoesis, things can improve. I've never had what you might call an easy relationship with my mother (80 next month) but things have improved in the last few years and while things may never be perfect, I have a better relationship with her now than I've ever had before.

--------------------
Maius intra qua extra

Never accept a ride from a stranger, unless they are in a big blue box

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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189

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quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
Not bad form, just dull and boring and depressing.

Alright, alright! You know, this is helping enormously, actually. I'm now a lot more angry with you than I am with my mother.

quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
I also think it strange how you bright young things dote on your little darlings (also boring to the sad childless) and yet speak of the older generation so nastily.

I resent that. I am not a bright young thing. I am depressed and anxious and frazzled and worn out from trying to entertain and mediate between my 'little darlings' (and what have you seen in my posting so far to indicate that I dote on them, particularly, may I ask?) Or are you just making assumptions, along with the assumptions about how other childless people feel, and the assumptions of how I feel about other people of the older generation? I have known my parents-in-law for nearly twenty years now and I have tremendous respect for them a great relationship with them which is not fraught with all this emotional baggage. Similarly, I had an excellent relationship with my father, once I was out of adolescence.

quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
I suppose you'll understand when you're old(er) and your kids have their own lives to lead and you're left out.

I suppose I will. When it eventually happens, you can look down from your heavenly abode and sneer at me some more, eh? And by the way, that is the sort of sniping comment that my mother specialises in. You cannot possibly understand what it is like to be me, because you haven't reached my age yet, but inevitably you WILL understand, when you do reach my age, because it's inconceivable that anyone my age doesn't feel as I do. And then you'll see. And then you'll be sorry. And then you'll wish you'd been nicer to me. Rah rah.

--------------------
When you listen to Bruce's music you are [no longer] a loser. You are a character in an epic poem...about losers.
- Jon Stewart on Bruce Springsteen -

Posts: 844 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged
anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189

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quote:
Originally posted by Kitten:
If it's any consolation anoesis, things can improve. I've never had what you might call an easy relationship with my mother (80 next month) but things have improved in the last few years and while things may never be perfect, I have a better relationship with her now than I've ever had before.

Thanks. I think in part I am responding badly to this episode because we have had some excellent (but painful) talks in the past couple of years, and I really did think things were better - and I had a phone conversation with her about ten days ago that was as happy as you please - and then we seem to be back to square one again, and I still can't work out what sets it off.

--------------------
When you listen to Bruce's music you are [no longer] a loser. You are a character in an epic poem...about losers.
- Jon Stewart on Bruce Springsteen -

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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017

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I assumed franophile must really hate you, due to scrap on other threads. I don't know, I don't read enough. I've no idea what the hell is going on, but I assume you opened his thread for other people to rant about their families, rAther than comment on you and yours.
Mothers are always a touchy subject. I love and not love mine, would struggle post on a forum about her. My daughters' crap half brother, however, is open season. Bring it on, the man is a jerk.

[ 22. January 2014, 21:50: Message edited by: Taliesin ]

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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189

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quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
I assumed franophile must really hate you, due to scrap on other threads.

Not that I know of.

quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
I assume you opened his thread for other people to rant about their families, rAther than comment on you and yours.

Bingo. Exactly.

quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
Mothers are always a touchy subject. I love and not love mine, would struggle post on a forum about her. My daughters' crap half brother, however, is open season. Bring it on, the man is a jerk.

Actually, I suppose I am fortunate, in a sense, as there is no-one I can think of, even in the wider family, who is a complete unmitigated jerk. It's just some people are harder to get along with than others.

--------------------
When you listen to Bruce's music you are [no longer] a loser. You are a character in an epic poem...about losers.
- Jon Stewart on Bruce Springsteen -

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Frankly, the whole "one day I'll be dead and you'll be sorry" routine is exactly what various obnoxious family members of my own used to get away with being as rude and unkind as they wanted, without consequences.

At one point I decided a good life goal would be to treat my people in such a way that they wouldn't mutter "promises, promises" should I ever be stupid enough to utter that line.

--------------------
"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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Francophile
Shipmate
# 17838

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quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
Not bad form, just dull and boring and depressing.

Alright, alright! You know, this is helping enormously, actually. I'm now a lot more angry with you than I am with my mother.

quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
I also think it strange how you bright young things dote on your little darlings (also boring to the sad childless) and yet speak of the older generation so nastily.

I resent that. I am not a bright young thing. I am depressed and anxious and frazzled and worn out from trying to entertain and mediate between my 'little darlings' (and what have you seen in my posting so far to indicate that I dote on them, particularly, may I ask?) Or are you just making assumptions, along with the assumptions about how other childless people feel, and the assumptions of how I feel about other people of the older generation? I have known my parents-in-law for nearly twenty years now and I have tremendous respect for them a great relationship with them which is not fraught with all this emotional baggage. Similarly, I had an excellent relationship with my father, once I was out of adolescence.

quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
I suppose you'll understand when you're old(er) and your kids have their own lives to lead and you're left out.

I suppose I will. When it eventually happens, you can look down from your heavenly abode and sneer at me some more, eh? And by the way, that is the sort of sniping comment that my mother specialises in. You cannot possibly understand what it is like to be me, because you haven't reached my age yet, but inevitably you WILL understand, when you do reach my age, because it's inconceivable that anyone my age doesn't feel as I do. And then you'll see. And then you'll be sorry. And then you'll wish you'd been nicer to me. Rah rah.

No wonder your mother despises you. What has she done to deserve a self pitying, whining excuse of a daughter like you. You really need to experience real hardship. Oh, and did anyone force you to have children to frazzle and depress you? Grow up and take responsibility for your own pathetic choices un life.

Oh, you cannot possibly undrstand what ut is to be me.

Why post your self absorbed drivel on the Hell board if you're looking for sympathy? You ain't going to get it except from the pathetic, right on Christian idiots on here.

Hope I get banned.

Posts: 243 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2013  |  IP: Logged
anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189

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quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
No wonder your mother despises you.

I'm not aware that she does. She merely gets upset with me from time to time (on a strangely regular sort of timetable). Do you have ANY family? Any relationships with other people at all? YOU are actually the one who is blowing everything out of proportion here by suggesting that we two despise each other when what is actually going on is some mutual frustration as a result of poor communication.

quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
What has she done to deserve a self pitying, whining excuse of a daughter like you.

Fuck you, fucknugget. Oh everyone, gather round! See how little respect I have for the older generation!

quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
You really need to experience real hardship.

REAL hardship being the sort YOU have experienced, no doubt... the only genuine article. Will it make me a better person? It's not looking like it from where I'm sitting, but of course, I'm only young, so what would I know?

quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
Oh, and did anyone force you to have children to frazzle and depress you? Grow up and take responsibility for your own pathetic choices un life.

Nope. But, as I believe you have already noted, I don't come from the 'just suck it all up and plaster on a smile so everyone else can be happy' generation. The fact that I express the fact I am frazzled and depressed by my experience of having young children does not preclude my taking responsibility for them, or for any other area of my life I may choose to express my feelings about. If you don't like to read it, then fucking STOP, for crying out loud!

quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
Oh, you cannot possibly undrstand what ut is to be me.

Why post your self absorbed drivel on the Hell board if you're looking for sympathy? You ain't going to get it except from the pathetic, right on Christian idiots on here.

Hope I get banned.

I like my own mother more and more with every passing second. You have done me a service here, you know. I could have done so much worse for a parent. I will endeavour to be more patient with her in future.

--------------------
When you listen to Bruce's music you are [no longer] a loser. You are a character in an epic poem...about losers.
- Jon Stewart on Bruce Springsteen -

Posts: 844 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Anoesis, just ignore him/ her/ angelic being who never had an uncharitable thought about a relative. The rest of us live on earth and know how it is. I will try to think of some juicy stories that are appropriate for sharing and chime in later.

The thing about my mom, is that she was the oldest child in her family, and developed a razor tongue, a penchant for bossiness, and a lack of ability to handle it when things don't go her way. Sometimes dealing with her is heart- breaking, because she just doesn't care what she says as long as she wins the argument. But when I write down what she says later, often times I laugh it off, because "who the hell says that?"

And it makes me hate her less and accept her more.

[ 22. January 2014, 23:06: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

--------------------
"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Francophile, if you're that desperate for attention, why don't you open your own thread? All this jumping up and down and thumping your chest isn't doing much for you.

(Thoughtfully) who was it who said if you want attention that badly, you can just pay for it up the alley like all the other freaks?)

--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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Well both of my parents are dead now and I am sorry for all the times I didn't visit or wasn't patient enough with them or disappointed them in some huge way -- but, at the very same time, I find myself still remembering all the times they said hurtful things to me or let me down somehow. That's what really bothers me most, my inability to forgive and forget their failings as parents while simultaneously making mistakes with my own family that they will probably remember and resent long after I'm dead.

Go raise children.

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Isn't it possible to forgive someone while still acknowledging the can be a huge pain in the ass sometimes? Of course it goes both ways-- does that mean one can't talk about their end of things?

In fact, how on earth can you really forgive someone until you have articulated what has happened? Even if only to yourself?

--------------------
"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

Posts: 34910 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

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Francophile, what the ever loving fuck is up your ass on this fine day?

you don't have to like aenosist... aeomebist... anmbulist... analcyst....whatever. You can even get all judgy and superior because your family's shit don't stink. fine with me. But what I'm seeing here is a sad, lonely human who is projecting the fuck out of this situation.

So tell us, you delicate little snowflake... did someone not get a visit? feeling rejected? let me guess, they left you off their christmas card list? it couldn't possibly be because you're a nasty little excuse for company, could it? How on earth could they possibly not be just wrestling and jostling each other for a chance to sit there with you telling them how fucked up and evil they are and how much better you are?

Frankly, I'm not a huge fan of reading about how dysfunctional other people's families are. I come to the Ship to escape, not face my own reality straight in the eye coming out of other people' typing fingers.

(one of these days I'm giving you all a dose of my baby sister both barrels and you'll collectively wet yourself)

The reality is, anosist gets to bitch about the fucked up freak what spawned her. You get to say what you like in return (and kudos for the eversion therapy, BTW) but frankly, on this thread I would like to deal with one disastrous Shipmate at a time and you're piling all your issues all over this shit.

Take your turn, you big baby. tell us about how you done been wronged by your family ('cause, you know... it's fucking obvious) and get your agenda out of aoneaosis's throat.

you really need to buy her a drink first.

--------------------
Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by comet:
How on earth could they possibly not be just wrestling and jostling each other for a chance to sit there with you telling them how fucked up and evil they are and how much better you are?

[Killing me]

Ok, first funny mom story.

Listening to my mom on the phone is excruciating, because she never leaves space for the other person on the line to talk. Also, what she has to say usually revolves around a string of complaints. (Hence my laughter at the above.) Whether it was her that called or the other person, from the first second she starts talking she just keeps up talking in one long stream. I can't imagine what the poor soul on the other end must be doing. "Yes, I.. Well of course.. Actually..."

So, one Sunday a letter appeared in Dear Abby, in which someone complained about a friend who called just to talk about their own stuff and never let them contribute, or get off the phone. Abby( or whoever) suggested that the writer cut the conversation off before it could germinate.

I swear to God, all my mom's friends must have read that article, because for about two weeks afterward, phone conversations were like this on her end.

"Hi, it's [Mom] I was ju-- oh, you're busy. OK, but really quick I just wanted to sa-- oh, can I call later? Tomorrow, maybe? Well, goodbye then."
If it was a coincidence, it was an amazing coincidence.

Another good life goal-- treat your people in such a way that they don't cringe when they see your name come up on Caller ID.

[ 23. January 2014, 01:11: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

--------------------
"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

Posts: 34910 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894

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quote:
Originally posted by comet:
you really need to buy her a drink first.

And, if you'd be so kind, do it in front of my toxic grandmother, Insulter of Daughters-In-Law, Bona Fide Class Snob, and She Who Makes Grown Women Who Have Seen It All break down in tears. She's a strict teetotaler, of the variety who thought I'd turn into a ten-year-old alcoholic from taking communion at a Lutheran church. May I suggest you try the demon rum? It'd do us all even more good than our regular family toasts to her.

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
She's a strict teetotaler, of the variety who thought I'd turn into a ten-year-old alcoholic from taking communion at a Lutheran church. May I suggest you try the demon rum? It'd do us all even more good than our regular family toasts to her.

Oh, she sounds WONDERFUL. Dish! Dish!

--------------------
"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

Posts: 34910 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Ok, here's another Mom story for Annnawhosis--

Mom's version of an argument involved her telling you how much you suck, followed by her shouting louder and louder over any reply you might make until you just give up and storm off, at which point she heckles you for storming off. Loads o' fun.

One time when I was a teenager, we she was shouting at me, and I don't know what it was-- maybe she accused me of something I didn't do, maybe she said something extra- mean-- but at some point I got a sentence in that called her out on something she couldn't wiggle out of. She apologized. Here is her version of an apology.

"Ok, I am SOOORRRRY. I guess I have to be SOOO CAREFUL with my words. Please ForGIIIVE me!"

I was still scowling, so she snapped, "Aren't you done sulking? I APOLOGIZED!"

At the time I didn't understand the concept of a non-apology, so I just sat there.

"I SAID I APOLOGIZE! Do you want me to BEG? Do you want me to KISS your FEET? Yes, that's it, you want me to KISS your FEET! Well alright, then!"

I swear to God I protested, but she moved with cobra-like swiftness. She lunged forward and grabbed my bare foot (I was sitting on my bed just before I was about to turn in-- fantastic time for screaming arguments) and wrenched it to her lips while I struggled to pull it away.

Years later I reminded her of this, and she chuckled. "I guess that's the kind of thing you remember five years later and laugh over."

Pause. I swallowed.
"Uh, Mom? Five minutes after you left the room I was laughing..."

I mean,shit, most of us have these kind of stories, so who cares? It's called life. Make it ART.

[ 23. January 2014, 02:13: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

--------------------
"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

Posts: 34910 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Oh, she sounds WONDERFUL. Dish! Dish!

Eh, most of them are "I wouldn't believe it, except I was there" or "seriously, I know my parents don't go in for hyperbole, and there's no way anybody could have made THIS up" so there's not much to dish. I almost wonder what we're going to kvetch about when she's gone, except that we've material enough to last us a good long time. I do worry about my parents who have to bear the brunt of things, though. Nobody deserves the wrath and insults that come from someone who can just tell what will cut right to your heart and feels no qualms about using every weapon she has without a second thought.

--------------------
“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Well Stephen King made a mighty fine living working his crazy-ass relatives into his books.

Augustin Burroughs, too.

--------------------
"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
I do worry about my parents who have to bear the brunt of things, though. Nobody deserves the wrath and insults that come from someone who can just tell what will cut right to your heart and feels no qualms about using every weapon she has without a second thought.

...and amen to this.

--------------------
"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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Francophile,

This is Hell and one is allowed to be a sanctimonious, little shit. You do not have seemed to realise, however, that it is not required.
When next you visit a physician, please ask about assistance in removing the bug up your arse.

--------------------
And I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad
The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had

- Roland Orzabal

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
Shit, is your relationship with your mum so bad you have to wait for an invitation before you visit? That's really sad.

It's not so rare. Mine moved to another country built a house without guest rooms 3 weeks after the birth of her first grandchild, my child, and saw us 6 times in 20 years. Once because I dragged tbe family along. And then I had to clean up her mess when she died. Now burdened with a father who I moved back and spent God knows how many thankless hours and some $50k organizing. I suppose the abandonment has made me less likely to respond to the pull of talk designed to blame others for feelings.

My general advice is to ensure others' feelings never belong to you. And say when you don't like what they try to put on to you.

Re OP, I would tend to say that I prefer talk to email, and
that I would prefer that she not use guilt towards me, that I don't enjoy having feelings that her email gave. Of course mine was a little different than your's. So my response may be a little strong.

Parents can be difficult. Its the guilt part

--------------------
ubi desinit philosophus · ibi incipit musicus

formerly known more succinctly as "no prophet", either way not be taken seriously. \_(ツ)_/

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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[crosspost]

Oh, let him roll. He's acting out the role of "difficult relative." Makes the whole thing so much more interactive. Anybody can just point him out.

"See, there? See the judgement and criticism? See the sneering dismissal of my comments and the hand-rubbing glee with which he calls me a failure? That's just what my dad was like!" [Waterworks]

[ 23. January 2014, 02:41: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

--------------------
"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

Posts: 34910 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Ok, here's another Mom story for Annnawhosis--
...[snip]
Here is her version of an apology.

"Ok, I am SOOORRRRY. I guess I have to be SOOO CAREFUL with my words. Please ForGIIIVE me!"

Mine goes in for "I'm sorry you feel that way", or "I'm sorry if that's how you heard it"or "I'm sorry if you were offended by something I said", that kind of flavour...

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I mean,shit, most of us have these kind of stories, so who cares? It's called life. Make it ART.

Wise words. It would probably take me more than five minutes to be able to laugh about such an episode as you recount, though. That's a good duck's back you have yourself there...

--------------------
When you listen to Bruce's music you are [no longer] a loser. You are a character in an epic poem...about losers.
- Jon Stewart on Bruce Springsteen -

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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No, I can't take that praise. Usually these harangues left me devastated. I just had this strange moment of clarity in which I realized,"This woman is nuts. And this is comedy gold."

Wish that happened more.

(Having said that, i can't tell you how I giggled over the phrase "cobra-like swiftness.") [Snigger]

[ 23. January 2014, 02:46: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

--------------------
"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

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quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
Nobody deserves the wrath and insults that come from someone who can just tell what will cut right to your heart and feels no qualms about using every weapon she has without a second thought.

see, there? now I feel all warm and cuddly.

'cause my crazyass sister is way too stupid to pull that off with any style whatsoever.

she's just like ocean waves. the constant battering of the "poor me!" routine wears you down until you blow.

and then (I shit you not) she calls Dad and tells on me.

it's so fucking awesome.

But she doesn't have my buttons. no doubt I've offered them up to her in my own stupidity and in weak moments; but she's a brick. the screaming tirades are less "et tu, Brute?"and much more "whattheeverlovingfuckwazat?"

--------------------
Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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I say pressure Mom to move closer and then get her to babysit the kids at every possible opportunity. Then act shocked [Eek!] at any suggestion that in fact THIS time around she's not in a position to have the kids today/this weekend.

--------------------
The musical diary has been updated in praise of Paul Dempsey.

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
I assume you opened his thread for other people to rant about their families, rAther than comment on you and yours.

Bingo. Exactly.
So the whole bit about how you paint a target on your ass when you post in Hell just slipped right by you?
Posts: 24093 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:

Her: You should know by now that you don't need an invitation to visit me! I am quite happy to clear my schedule and rearrange things to accommodate you!

She's your Mum. One day she may be like my Mum - unable to speak to you, remember you or acknowledge you at all.

Read this, then read it again. Remember it and take it to heart.

Now phone your Mum and ask if you could all visit tomorrow/next week/the week after. Repeat indefinitely

Simples, yes?

--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk

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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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Yes, it is Hell. But there should be [i]standards./[i] Franky, Gaul-boy has displayed none. All nasty, no style.

ETA: Reply to RuthW

[ 23. January 2014, 05:50: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

--------------------
And I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad
The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had

- Roland Orzabal

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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:

Her: You should know by now that you don't need an invitation to visit me! I am quite happy to clear my schedule and rearrange things to accommodate you!

She's your Mum. One day she may be like my Mum - unable to speak to you, remember you or acknowledge you at all.

Read this, then read it again. Remember it and take it to heart.

Now phone your Mum and ask if you could all visit tomorrow/next week/the week after. Repeat indefinitely

Simples, yes?

No. It is often not simple. Love, frustration, anger, happiness, etc. can all cooexist in any relationship. It is not one thing or the other, not balanced. One can love someone but truly, legitimately feel vexed. Simply because they will not exist in perfect health forever, and may die before one does, does not erase all the problems.

--------------------
And I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad
The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had

- Roland Orzabal

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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
I assume you opened his thread for other people to rant about their families, rAther than comment on you and yours.

Bingo. Exactly.
So the whole bit about how you paint a target on your ass when you post in Hell just slipped right by you?
No, it didn't. While the thread didn't pan out quite as I had expected, I read Hell pretty regularly and am familiar with the ways things are down here, so I can't honestly say I was...shocked, shocked, I tell you! And I also acknowledge that just because I started the thread doesn't mean I own it. It's quite possible I should have done as Taliesin advised and started the thread in All Saints instead. That is a board I know less about, but I'm thinking I should educate myself in that area tout suite.

--------------------
When you listen to Bruce's music you are [no longer] a loser. You are a character in an epic poem...about losers.
- Jon Stewart on Bruce Springsteen -

Posts: 844 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged
anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:

Her: You should know by now that you don't need an invitation to visit me! I am quite happy to clear my schedule and rearrange things to accommodate you!

She's your Mum. One day she may be like my Mum - unable to speak to you, remember you or acknowledge you at all.

Read this, then read it again. Remember it and take it to heart.

Now phone your Mum and ask if you could all visit tomorrow/next week/the week after. Repeat indefinitely

Simples, yes?

No. Sorry. It's never been simple with my Mum. It probably never will be. I go through periods of trying, periods of giving up, periods of handwringing. And so does my sister. And, so, I imagine, does my Mum. Cos we're related, and that's how it works - that's how it is. But how it isn't is simple.

--------------------
When you listen to Bruce's music you are [no longer] a loser. You are a character in an epic poem...about losers.
- Jon Stewart on Bruce Springsteen -

Posts: 844 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged
anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189

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quote:
Originally posted by comet:
... aenosist... aeomebist... anmbulist... analcyst....whatever.

[Killing me]

Comet, next hosts and admins day, go on - improve my name. Analcyst! - I love it - although I missed it on the first readthrough...

--------------------
When you listen to Bruce's music you are [no longer] a loser. You are a character in an epic poem...about losers.
- Jon Stewart on Bruce Springsteen -

Posts: 844 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged
Francophile
Shipmate
# 17838

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quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
I assume you opened his thread for other people to rant about their families, rAther than comment on you and yours.

Bingo. Exactly.
So the whole bit about how you paint a target on your ass when you post in Hell just slipped right by you?
No, it didn't. While the thread didn't pan out quite as I had expected, I read Hell pretty regularly and am familiar with the ways things are down here, so I can't honestly say I was...shocked, shocked, I tell you! And I also acknowledge that just because I started the thread doesn't mean I own it. It's quite possible I should have done as Taliesin advised and started the thread in All Saints instead. That is a board I know less about, but I'm thinking I should educate myself in that area tout suite.
Maybe educate yourself in how to use French at the same time.
Posts: 243 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2013  |  IP: Logged
anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189

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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
That's what really bothers me most, my inability to forgive and forget their failings as parents while simultaneously making mistakes with my own family that they will probably remember and resent long after I'm dead.

Go raise children.

Oh man, you said it. The fact that I have a difficult relationship with my Mum, who had a difficult relationship with her Mum, and I have a daughter, freaks me out completely. Firstly, I'm like "How can I possibly avoid avoid screwing her up? How will I deal with her resenting me for screwing her up?", and second, I'm like, "I have to fix this relationship with my Mum. I have to make it work. But I have no idea how to do this." And then thirdly, "I have to make sure I don't get like that" (because there's no doubt my Mum is getting like my Nan, and I do sometimes hear myself parroting stuff to my kids that she said when I was little). And all the time I have this sense that I'm just flailing around wildly to no effect and upsetting myself in the process.

--------------------
When you listen to Bruce's music you are [no longer] a loser. You are a character in an epic poem...about losers.
- Jon Stewart on Bruce Springsteen -

Posts: 844 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged
Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017

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Not me! I got that you wanted to vent, and invited others to vent on a similar theme. All saints is a much different dynamic, and invites other comments you don't want, like boogie's.

Speaking of toxic grandparents, how about the old lady who spent Christmas day weeping when I came for dinner with my young kids, invited by future husband? Apparently a divorced woman is a bad thing (TM) and 'it's the children I feel sorry for'.

When we later revealed I was pregnant, she suggested we abort him.

Out of wedlock is a bad thing.

Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged
jacobsen

seeker
# 14998

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Froggy-person - you obviously have not A relatives and/or B a clue. Walk a mile in Anacrusis' (sic) shoes before you criticise. Now that our parents are dead, it falls to me to be the next of kin to my disabled sister in care (cue for sympathetic looks in HER direction) A connection living abroad was moved to comment that my thrice yearly visits were "not very often." True, but an aunt who had had more contact with the sister in question replied that under the prevailing circumstances of distance and interpersonal difficulty, it was in fact plenty! As much as I could manage without sororicide IMO. Most of us do what we can, with due regard for our own well being and the need to stay afloat psychologically. You, being an island, pace John Donne, wouldn't experience these issues.

--------------------
But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:

Speaking of toxic grandparents, how about the old lady who spent Christmas day weeping when I came for dinner with my young kids, invited by future husband? Apparently a divorced woman is a bad thing (TM) and 'it's the children I feel sorry for'.

When we later revealed I was pregnant, she suggested we abort him.


As played by Dame Maggie Smith.

--------------------
"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

Posts: 34910 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017

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I crossposted with yours, anoesis, and to that last post, I would say, get thee to an all saints thread and I'll join you there. [Smile]
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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189

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quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
I assume you opened his thread for other people to rant about their families, rAther than comment on you and yours.

Bingo. Exactly.
So the whole bit about how you paint a target on your ass when you post in Hell just slipped right by you?
No, it didn't. While the thread didn't pan out quite as I had expected, I read Hell pretty regularly and am familiar with the ways things are down here, so I can't honestly say I was...shocked, shocked, I tell you! And I also acknowledge that just because I started the thread doesn't mean I own it. It's quite possible I should have done as Taliesin advised and started the thread in All Saints instead. That is a board I know less about, but I'm thinking I should educate myself in that area tout suite.
Maybe educate yourself in how to use French at the same time.
Hah. Yeah, I walked right into that, didn't I? Should I say 'touche' now? (No, I don't know anything about fencing, either. Colonials, you know. Not quite the thing).

--------------------
When you listen to Bruce's music you are [no longer] a loser. You are a character in an epic poem...about losers.
- Jon Stewart on Bruce Springsteen -

Posts: 844 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged
Francophile
Shipmate
# 17838

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quote:
Originally posted by jacobsen:
Froggy-person - you obviously have not A relatives and/or B a clue. Walk a mile in Anacrusis' (sic) shoes before you criticise. Now that our parents are dead, it falls to me to be the next of kin to my disabled sister in care (cue for sympathetic looks in HER direction) A connection living abroad was moved to comment that my thrice yearly visits were "not very often." True, but an aunt who had had more contact with the sister in question replied that under the prevailing circumstances of distance and interpersonal difficulty, it was in fact plenty! As much as I could manage without sororicide IMO. Most of us do what we can, with due regard for our own well being and the need to stay afloat psychologically. You, being an island, pace John Donne, wouldn't experience these issues.

Fuck off.

I nursed my 87 year old father through terminal stages of PD last year. He died in my arms after 24/7 care for months, and years of deteriorating health back to 2003.

Now looking after my 86 yearold mum every day

Love(d) them both despite their foibles.

Go and take a shit.


Go fuck yourself

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