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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Difficult relatives
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
He tells me “I don’t believe in God, your are forcing me to do something I don’t believe in. It’s unfair”. But he isn’t going to use the time reading, or doing homework or tidying his room… oh no, he’s going to play Minecraft with his mates!
Oh My God! Shock! Horror! He's only 11 and already he's showing a different set of priorities to your own!
I bet he's decided he likes different music as well. ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
Strangely enough no! He's a Status Quo fan as well.
My daughter also has similar taste in music to me... Country. She want's some tickets to see Brad Paisley next month at the O2! She can fuck off!
Basically we all like anything rooted in blues and with a good slathering of guitars on there, whether twangy or raunchy.
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
Wow, I thought _I_ was the only Status Quo fan in the village...
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Geez. I am in the shower yesterday morning, and am visited by thoughts of my dead mother. Then I have a dream last night and she is in it. She had so precious little to do with her children in the 25 years before her death, you'd think she'd leave me alone now!
Okay, something triggered my thoughts of her, displacing the leaves, grass clipping and bits of trash my brain usually collects. But what??
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Let's see...hmmmm...
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Yeah, it's a weird oedipal thing. But has something to do with cooking too, she couldn't cook at all unless it was from a can. And she liked to heat tin cans directly to save on having dirty pots.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
Okay, something triggered my thoughts of her, displacing the leaves, grass clipping and bits of trash my brain usually collects. But what??
You've been participating in this thread for nearly a month, and you can't figure out what could possibly have triggered thoughts of a parent in a dream?
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017
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Posted
Cousins who misunderstand their importance. Who remember you a as a breathlessly adoring teenager, and forget that the intervening 30 years of them being an alcoholic who only phones to complain may have tarnished the image somewhat.
Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Alcoholism can do that--leave a person in a timewarp, I mean. Dad was banging on about things so old the rest of us had well -nigh forgotten them, but to him it was yesterday.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189
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Posted
Oh man, here we go again. Now, don't anyone take me too seriously - it's just an ironic story with differing viewpoints...
Every so often (like, lately, at least once a year) my mother gets a maggot in her head about needing to 'de-clutter' her environment. Which is all well and good, probably better than never ever throwing anything away - but here's the thing. Despite 'de-cluttering' at about five times the rate I do it, her house is and remains full . of . crap.
Because when she 'de-clutters' she gives away or chucks out, useful, well-made, high-quality, valuable, or sentimentally valuable items. But keeps things like old cellphones which don't work any more, and sixteen pencils of varying un-useful stub-lengths. Coloured stones. Strings of tiny cowrie shells. Crystals. Furniture made of faux cane. Cushions that died decades ago.
But - oh no, out the door go such things as: a complete Royal Doulton dinner service, a sleek mahogany upright piano in near-perfect condition (but I don't play the piano, dear...), a whole load of very high quality carpentry tools, complete box sets of significant books - you get the picture.
Mostly, it's just kind of sad-funny, but the last time but one this cycle came around she was trying to throw out a whole load (by which I mean one briefcase's worth) of ephemera and photographs my Father had collected, related to a hobby of his - about three months after his death - and I got a bit upset about this. She remained determined to have it out of the house as it was 'in the way' - long story short, my sister now has it stashed under her bed, (in her much smaller house, which has four occupants, rather than one), as a way of keeping the peace between us.
Now the need to declutter has come around again, and this time she has a dresser in her sights. It is the dresser which was in my bedroom as a child, and it is a very fine piece of furniture. If I won't take it, out it goes. I literally can't fit another dresser in my house without compromising an accessway, but that's not really the point. There is of course that it is NOT in the way in her house - but hey, it's her house, and her stuff, and if she wants to put it out on the street despite it probably being the best piece of furniture left in the house, I have nothing much to say to that.
What is really getting me is this: Her house is madly, madly cluttered, and remains so, despite all this 'de-cluttering'. She doesn't need to get rid of something with drawers. She needs to put more things in drawers. Probably even to get more drawers so that things can be put in them. Then some calm might at last prevail in her environment...
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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --
Posts: 993 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008
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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017
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Posted
Total sympathy from me!
My parents house is utterly cluttered and we've been trying to help them shift it for years, with much more success when they were more ill.
I wish they had some decent stuff to throw out! But it's all ....
I decided years ago that I mustn't care about any of it, because it would take years to look at it all. When the time comes, I'll just get a skip.
Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
anoesis - is your mother trying to get rid of memories for some reason? Keeping the stuff which means nothing to crowd out that she is missing your father?
I know someone who seems to be burying the past with clutter. And can't be shifted. The clutter thing is very, very difficult to deal with. (And some health service people don't understand this and think relatives ought to go in mob handed and throw the clutter out willy-nilly. It doesn't work. Weeks of tidying just a hall turned into accusations of creating a mess. It's been re-cluttered.)
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
her house is and remains full . of . crap.
the last time but one this cycle came around she was trying to throw out a whole load (by which I mean one briefcase's worth) of ephemera and photographs my Father had collected, related to a hobby of his - long story short, my sister now has it stashed under her bed, (in her much smaller house, which has four occupants, rather than one), as a way of keeping the peace between us.
I literally can't fit another dresser in my house without compromising an accessway, but that's not really the point.
I think it might actually be the point. Anoesis' mother is a hoarder. Anoesis is a junior hoarder with no room for a dresser. Only difference between the two is a matter of taste on exactly what to hoard. Poor sister, caught in the middle has to store stuff in her small house for the hoarders.
My father was such a hoarder we took over twenty truck loads to the landfill after he died. My brother has his house filled to the brim but he tries to forbid me to throw away anything that remotely pertains to my father's art --the father he didn't speak to for his last thirty years.
I'll never understand the hoarder mind set. If something isn't used, why shouldn't it go? Just because it's "worth something?" Clear square footage and attractive, balanced spaces are worth something, too. Sentimental value? Do you need to keep everything the person ever touched in order to remember them? How many generations back do you need to go with that?
The whole business of renting storage units is new and amazing to me. If you can't fit it, comfortably, in your house why in the world do you want it?
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Meg the Red
Shipmate
# 11838
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Posted
Twilight, I rent a storage unit because I can't fit kayaks in a teeny condo unless I want to use them as living room furniture. That being said, I don't want to move to a larger space because there's a tendency in my family to accumulate stuff, and I don't want to go down that road.
I understand the impulse to hoard, though; in my grandmother's case, she raised 7 kids through the Great Depression with very little support from her tomcatting husband. When you don't know if there'll be enough to feed or clothe your children, you don't throw anything away. And even when things get better, the spectre of poverty continues to lurk. When my aunts finally managed to place Grandma in a care facility, she had been reduced to moving around her house in a maze of cramped corridors created by papers and boxes stacked to the ceiling.
I genuinely feel for those who have to sort out hoarders' messes, but also for the people who created the chaos.
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Chocoholic Canuckistani Cyclopath
Posts: 1126 | From: Rat Creek | Registered: Sep 2006
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
Well those Kayaks are a good reason, Meg and so are things like going to another country for a year or storing the tools for a business, the trouble is, in most cases it's old stuff that everyone agrees should have gone to the landfill but, "Someone needs to go through it first, Grandpa once put a twenty in a book!"
I understand the depression era thing, too, but I don't see how all those boxes of papers are going to help if the family gets hungry.
I know, I know, I've watched every fascinating episode of "A&E's Hoarder"s and "TLC's Hoarding Buried Alive," so I've heard the therapists explain it all and if someone would rather sit on their sofa surrounded with cardboard boxes of old jars and piles of McDonald's wrappers, or cook in a kitchen where the counters are covered with every small appliance ever sold on late night TV and the table is set with fine crystal, sterling silver and plastic plates (my brother) -- rather than live in a nice airy, uncluttered space, then more power to them.
I just don't get it.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
quote:
You know how in the days when fish and chips were wrapped in newspaper you would find a story that was interesting and which you had not seen before - even though you had had that paper?
One explanation.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
her house is and remains full . of . crap.
the last time but one this cycle came around she was trying to throw out a whole load (by which I mean one briefcase's worth) of ephemera and photographs my Father had collected, related to a hobby of his - long story short, my sister now has it stashed under her bed, (in her much smaller house, which has four occupants, rather than one), as a way of keeping the peace between us.
I literally can't fit another dresser in my house without compromising an accessway, but that's not really the point.
I think it might actually be the point. Anoesis' mother is a hoarder. Anoesis is a junior hoarder with no room for a dresser. Only difference between the two is a matter of taste on exactly what to hoard. Poor sister, caught in the middle has to store stuff in her small house for the hoarders.
I don't think either my mother or I fit the hoarder profile, really...although I do have a lot of books. Bookcases double-stacked and then piles of books sitting on top of the bookcases, on top of our dresser, etc. I agree that it is partly a question of taste, though about what to throw away rather than what to hoard.
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I'll never understand the hoarder mind set. If something isn't used, why shouldn't it go? Just because it's "worth something?" Clear square footage and attractive, balanced spaces are worth something, too.
I agree about clear square footage and attractive balanced spaces, and once my kids are out from under my feet, or (pray God, one day), we have a two-level house where they can have their own 'zone', then I will go for the zen thing in a big way - it has a calming effect on my psyche. But investing in storage (such as, say, drawers), is really necessary to this approach, NOT so you can hoard more shit, but so that what stuff you do have is accessible and organised.
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
Sentimental value? Do you need to keep everything the person ever touched in order to remember them? How many generations back do you need to go with that?
Well, this is obviously going to be different for each person, but I know I have felt some sort of vague...lack for not having any tangible history of my family. It's just a big...gap. A load of stuff that happened to some other people, in another country, in another time. All I have is names, and most of them I only found a couple of years ago. I guess this means that the majority of my direct forebears were unsentimental types, too. I suppose I would like to keep some select things as mementos so that my children can get some sort of handle on their history - and they will never know their Grandad as a person, or have any independent memory of him at all. To know what he was interested in and see proof of his skill at it - it seems worth keeping to me. And my sister agrees. The only reason it's still under her bed is that we still haven't got around to going through it and divvying up between us.
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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --
Posts: 993 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008
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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
anoesis - is your mother trying to get rid of memories for some reason? Keeping the stuff which means nothing to crowd out that she is missing your father?
I think this is possible. Either that or that there is a need for work, for sorting, for busyness, for the same sort of reasons. But I'm only speculating, really.
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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --
Posts: 993 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
There's some interesting new research on brain activity of hoarders when they took brain scans of hoarders trying to throw out junk mail. It may be that your mother is overwhelmed by trying to process the smaller effluvia so she chucks the big pieces to make some progress.
It can be very frustrating. My mother's death after living in a house that had almost a century of clutter from her and her aunt happened when the house was flooded. Almost everything including the walls had to be chucked in multiple dumpsters leaving us children to marvel on how a fairly poor family could spend so much on musical instruments.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
The problem with that research is that it was with a group of people who had agreed to be the subjects of research, so possibly not typical hoarders. And the suggested therapy would only work if the hoarders agreed to be treated. Which means that they would have already taken the first step towards dealing with the problem. While they persist in the belief that there is no problem, there can be no solution.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
Anoesis, I didn't mean to offend you or your mother with the "h" word, to me it's an interesting quirk, not a Bad Thing.
I just read the link and it described my brother's relationship with his paper and his shredder so well. I'm all for shredding and recycling in most cases, but those two concepts have stymied the de-cluttering efforts of sooo many overwhelmed people.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
all right, gang. you're on the wrong board. this discussion belongs here. Get your hugs and commiserations outta Hell.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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aunt jane
Shipmate
# 10139
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
I'm starting this thread because I want to have a bitch on the topic, and to give others the opportunity to do likewise, and (oddly) I find myself a bit squeamish about the idea of writing "Today I condemn to hell" before going on about a family member...
So, anyway, difficult relatives - in this case, my mother, who sent me an email a few days ago couched in a tone I would label 'sniping'. These arrive every few months, and alert me to the fact that, somehow, I have done something to offend her. On this occasion, I have failed to bring the children to visit her over the holiday period, whereas all her friends have had their grandchildren to visit. Any attempt to explain only makes things worse for myself, thus:
Her: Why haven't you brought the children to visit over the holiday period?
Me:...?...because you didn't invite us?
Her: You should know by now that you don't need an invitation to visit me! I am quite happy to clear my schedule and rearrange things to accommodate you!*
Me: Also, I remember you saying when we were down visiting last** that you were very busy in January.
Her: Oh come on! You can't expect me to remember conversations from that long ago, at my age!***
Me: Well, anyway, it's done now, I have other activities planned for the kids, but let's hope we can do a better job of communicating around the next holiday period, so we don't have any more misunderstandings.
Her: I sincerely hope you actually mean that.
Me(to self): Now what the fuck is that supposed to mean?
And the worst of all is that I can't just elect to ignore it and hope it will all wash under the bridge when I get one of these communiques, because if I don't respond I get another barrage asking me why I haven't answered.
In the absence of a 'throwing up hands in frustration and marching out of the room' smilie, I am going to have to make do with this one: ![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
*not wholly true
**a whole six weeks ago
***my mother has NOT entered advanced old age and her memory is completely fine
I know this is an old post and I'm not much good at using these boards, but you my every sympathy. Some people get into a dangerous habit of behaviour whereby everything is somehow or other made out to be one particular person's fault.
Posts: 97 | From: South East of England | Registered: Aug 2005
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Philip Charles
Ship's cutler
# 618
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Posted
Thanks for going back to the beginning. I was in a similar position with my mother. By the GoG I discovered that every time we had a conversation the would throw out a fishing line and I would take the bait.
quote:
Why haven't you brought the children to visit over the holiday period?
Me:...?...because you didn't invite us?
A classic case of following your mother's conversational agenda. There are a number of replies you could make which reflect your agenda.
"are you missing them?" Leading into how are you getting on?
"the children were involved in such and such activity." Leading into what the children are doing.
"we had a lot to do at home" Leading into what you are doing.
Your mother is indulging in relationship destroying behaviour and must not be allowed to get away with it. With practice the cure becomes second nature.
To those who made platitudinous responses, get real, this is a serious family situation.
I had a continuous relationship with my mother on my terms and was with her when she died. Another family member was pissed off and did not attend the funeral.
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There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.
Posts: 89 | From: Dunedin, NZ | Registered: Jun 2001
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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017
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Posted
Someone had totally jumped on my raw nerves on another thread so I've come here to shout.
My bloody mother made it my 'self pity' if I was ever upset about anything, and it invalidated my feelings on every level, every time.
If I failed to stop my self pity, she would 'give me something real to grizzle about' ie, slaps to the bare legs.
I feel really fucking angry. And it isn't here, isn't now. Past.
Thanks. got to cook dinner now.
[ 09. March 2014, 15:43: Message edited by: Taliesin ]
Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I want to be crabby here too because I've got a very close relative (unidentified to protect the guilty) whose idea of cheering me up during this difficult time is to tell me how much worse she has it. It doesn't matter what the hell it is, she has a worse version of it. Lost my job? Well, she's housebound and bored (not entirely true, either). Sick? She's dying (see parenthesis above) Depressed, lonely and grieving? Why, I have it so much better than others .... I think the last conversation might have broken down when I asked if she would have told Jesus on the cross to always look on the bright side of life.
No, come to think of it, that was ANOTHER close relative. But he at least had the decency to laugh and shut up thereafter.
[ 09. March 2014, 16:36: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
I want to be crabby here too because I've got a very close relative (unidentified to protect the guilty) whose idea of cheering me up during this difficult time is to tell me how much worse she has it. It doesn't matter what the hell it is, she has a worse version of it. Lost my job? Well, she's housebound and bored (not entirely true, either). Sick? She's dying (see parenthesis above) Depressed, lonely and grieving? Why, I have it so much better than others .... I think the last conversation might have broken down when I asked if she would have told Jesus on the cross to always look on the bright side of life.
YOu DID??!!!
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
I have a couple of those folk.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Lamb Chopped , the song was Look upon the sunny side of life".
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Holy cow, that mistake is worth a hell call in and of itself.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
I was thinking of a radio show in the fifties. 2GB from memory.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Jemima the 9th
Shipmate
# 15106
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Posted
Hello Dad, thanks for the email reminding us when Mum's upcoming birthday would have been, and how old she would have been.
'Cos it's not like I would have remembered all by myself.
Posts: 801 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2009
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aunt jane
Shipmate
# 10139
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
I want to be crabby here too because I've got a very close relative (unidentified to protect the guilty) whose idea of cheering me up during this difficult time is to tell me how much worse she has it. It doesn't matter what the hell it is, she has a worse version of it. Lost my job? Well, she's housebound and bored (not entirely true, either). Sick? She's dying (see parenthesis above) Depressed, lonely and grieving? Why, I have it so much better than others ....
I once had a doctor who behaved like this.
Posts: 97 | From: South East of England | Registered: Aug 2005
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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017
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Posted
Oddly enough my daughter had an appointment with him this week. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
I appear to have upset my mother.
I did not receive anything from her on my birthday because she doesn't know what I want. WTF? In December she took great pride in telling me that she was ignoring the link to a wish-list I sent her and would give me something unexpected. But assuming that she has decided to give me something that I actually want, couldn't she have tried to find out what that might be before my birthday, rather than afterwards? And I don't see that that explains the lack of a card.
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
She forgot it.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
I suppose it is possible (and, if she had, she would not admit it) but she has never forgotten before, over 40+ years and there are no other signs that she is getting forgetful. Besides which, I think if she was aware that she was getting forgetful, she would make sure it was in her online calendar with a reminder set.
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017
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Posted
When my stepdaughter turned 13, the phone rang and I suggested she answer it of course, since it was likely to be somebody to wish her happy day. It was her mother... they spoke for a few minutes then stepdaughter came back... said they'd arranged the weekend pickup. She hasn't said happy birthday, turns out she'd forgotten.
Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Ouch. Yeah, I've had that happen to me. I suspect I'd be feeling homicidal if it were one of my kids, though.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
JoannaP, if you want to be nasty, send a cheerful note thanking her for the lovely gift she sent last year.
![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017
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Posted
That sort of thing really doesn't work, and leads to all sorts of hell.
Believe.
Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
When my stepdaughter turned 13, the phone rang and I suggested she answer it of course, since it was likely to be somebody to wish her happy day. It was her mother... they spoke for a few minutes then stepdaughter came back... said they'd arranged the weekend pickup. She hasn't said happy birthday, turns out she'd forgotten.
Though in that circumstance it would be helpful for daughter to tell mother that it is her birthday. If I have to tell you why i'm angry, i might as well not bother - is never a successful strategy.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017
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Posted
She didn't withhold it, she was stunned and hurt. Children who are left by their mothers in horrible, hurtful circumstances tend to be fairly low in self esteem at the best of times.
Yes, of course, in retrospect, I should have answered the phone and checked that whoever it was knew the date. I was 24 at the time and it didn't cross my mind. Obviously my childhood was better than I realised.
Certainly, what actually happened, that her father used it as an excuse to get drunk and rant at ex wife, was really crap. Luckily, I was there to give her a nice day and a party with her friends.
Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Just thinking about that--when it happened to me, I didn't tell my Dad because it would have precipitated an alcoholic rage, and I was traumatized enough by all the other rages, down through the years. There are some situations where you choose your battles. I waited a few years until I was mature enough and then wrote an intervention-style letter focusing on the really major issues, which may have been part of the reason he eventually got his shit together. Mostly.
[ 20. March 2014, 20:43: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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George Spigot
Outcast
# 253
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
My son (11) is an acolyte at our Eucharist. It takes up 1 hours of his precious time every few weeks. How much moaning can one small boy do?
He tells me “I don’t believe in God, your are forcing me to do something I don’t believe in. It’s unfair”. But he isn’t going to use the time reading, or doing homework or tidying his room… oh no, he’s going to play Minecraft with his mates!
So I’m sorry son, but you will be an acolyte whether you believe in God or not. Because I expect it of him as part of his “chores” around the house. I accept that it isn’t the same as a profession of faith, but sometimes kids do need to be made to do some things otherwise they will think all things they don’t like can be ignored.
I accept that he may not believe in God. He’s 11 and probably has very little conception or understanding of God, and peer pressure is always there of course, but if he choses to leave his faith behind when he’s an adult then fair enough, but I hope that by then he will have been going enough to have a good understanding of what he is laying down. He may choose then to pick it back up later in his life.
We do have a Sunday School but inevitably this is more a form of crèche facility for children to young for the main service. No education or information for the older children/teenagers is available. I think we’ve a few threads about that. I don’t know, perhaps I ought to step up, but I don’t even know if my own theology is sound. Mind you as a universalist AffCaff in the CofE, I would guess that pretty much anything short of actual virgin sacrifice would fit.
He'll make a fine atheist.
Posts: 1625 | From: Derbyshire - England | Registered: May 2001
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
Forcing him to be an acolyte against his will is likely to reinforce his move to atheism.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Is he attending/going to attend a CofE secondary school entrance to which is dependant on churchgoing?
If the answer is YES then explain that part of the deal for the school of (presumably) his choice is church-going. He is at liberty to give up church but, in all conscience, he should also give up the school place. Of course, if this isn't the case then that argument isn't open to you.
What you could say is that you would very much like it if he would make his communion once a month: you understand that prancing about in an alb is not to his liking so he can go to the early, said service - but that he does that once a month (or however frequently).
Alternatively, if there is an evensong on offer, say he can go to that: just say that you'd prefer it if he went once a month to something.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
Just explain to the boy that sincerity is important. If he can fake sincerity he's bound to be a success.
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Jenn.
Shipmate
# 5239
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Posted
Meanwhile, in England, tomorrow is mother's day.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
Posts: 2282 | From: England | Registered: Nov 2003
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
No, it is Mothering Sunday.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
My late mother always insisted (rightly) on getting it right ... but that meant it was quite difficult buying cards with the correct wording.
John Lewis to the rescue!
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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