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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Difficult relatives
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
The problem with having had an abusive childhood or the like is that you see things which aren't there
If someone if following you from room to room, keeping a distance of a few feet, it is either there or it is not. It was there.
And If I thought it was happening because I am a comforting prescence, that would be one thing, but when they then interrupt my attempts at connecting to other people with criticism and ridicule, to the point that I can't talk to other people at all, I couldn't care less who I am comforting.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I did agree with that part--see my previous post-- Beenster asked where I got the thing about " just because they aren't aware doesn't mean..."
I was just at a point where I didn't give a rat's what the motives were, I just wanted it to stop.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Beenster
Shipmate
# 242
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Posted
Ah I understand sorry Kelly Alves.
I should have used the word "sometimes". I know for me, I sometimes see shadows that aren't there. It's a consequence of being hyper sensitive. Other times, the shadows I see are there - like your follower.
I also know that I see shadows that are very very subtle that I see, others don't but I'm sure as sure as sure can be - they *are* there.
And to confuse - people are not always aware of what they are doing. I don't know if my siblings are aware of how patronising they are to me. But they are. End of.
Well, that's how it is for me. Your follower is def a shadow that is there, no doubting that. And I'm sorry if you thought I doubted you in the follower. I didn't mean to - just wanted to lend my solidarity in that how such an action can lead a doppel head fuck along the way.
Posts: 1885 | Registered: May 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
If someone if following you from room to room, keeping a distance of a few feet, it is either there or it is not. It was there.
And If I thought it was happening because I am a comforting prescence, that would be one thing, but when they then interrupt my attempts at connecting to other people with criticism and ridicule, to the point that I can't talk to other people at all, I couldn't care less who I am comforting.
It can be both, with some seriously fucked-up people. These are the "I hate you, don't leave me" types.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
Without disagreeing at all, I kind of get the childhood thing. Bullfrog and I have had multiple conversations where I have reacted very strangely to him and we later realized it was because I thought he was doing X for the reasons <Difficult Relative> would have while he was doing X for totally different reasons.
MrP and I have those conversations too...
Sometimes it is not just the survivors of childhood nonsense who walk on eggshells; their partners do as well - but full and honest communication helps to sort out what is going on.
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
If someone if following you from room to room, keeping a distance of a few feet, it is either there or it is not. It was there.
And If I thought it was happening because I am a comforting prescence, that would be one thing, but when they then interrupt my attempts at connecting to other people with criticism and ridicule, to the point that I can't talk to other people at all, I couldn't care less who I am comforting.
It can be both, with some seriously fucked-up people. These are the "I hate you, don't leave me" types.
This really really feels like what is going on with Mom. She needs someone proximate, hates herself for needing it, and takes it out on them. I had a weird dream last night in which she was trying to talk me into letting her move into my bedroom, and I was stonewalling the hell out of her.
Reading back-- I agree totally with the idea that sometimes you will have to recognize that you are having family reactions to non-crazy, non-family folk. When my biological father died, one woman on staff at the (dysfunctional) school I worked at demanded I go home for the day. It took me years to figure out she did that because she was worried about me, and wasn't scolding me for being upset at work.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
Preach it Kelly. It can take a while to adjust to people who do something not to manipulate, but just for the simple straight forward surface reason. There's this radical technique of plain speaking rather than murky subtexts that can take adjustment to those who have had to evolve defenses.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
Well, my cocaine addicted beer guzzling nephew phoned around last week and managed to convince people he was in Rehab, Not. Found out later he withdrew his full disability cheque in one swoop last week
I have a bag full of (now) cleaned clothes, including his prescription sunglasses and his powerful prescription reading glasses here. I expect he will try to pick them up soon, but I won't be here. Also insulin ampoules and pills.
Too bad.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
You don't think he might break in ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
Preach it Kelly. It can take a while to adjust to people who do something not to manipulate, but just for the simple straight forward surface reason. There's this radical technique of plain speaking rather than murky subtexts that can take adjustment to those who have had to evolve defenses.
God yes. It took me years to work out that, when MrP asked me why I had done something, he really wanted to know and was not indirectly criticising me.
(We both have our own DR we have evolved coping mechanisms for; his is definitely more Difficult (i.e. psychopathic) but I think I am more fucked up because he rebelled whereas I went with the programme. In fact, it is only recently, having moved 100 miles away from her, that I have realised how dysfunctional that relationship is.)
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Beenster
Shipmate
# 242
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Posted
JoannaP I too went with the programme, love the turn of phrase. I don't know about you but I went with it out of guilt, and a desire to seek approval that was never ever going to come. My siblings have fared better from DR (aka La Madre), as they created distance.
I'm now creating it but it's really really hard to put boundaries in place, they are trampled over with tedious relentlessness.
I'm caught in between feeling deep sadness for DR and her chronic dysfunctionality, and her predisposition to be wholeheartedly abusive towards me. It's like this stupid pendulum, like Stockholm Syndrome, I return to the abuser again and again and again.
It's difficult to create the wholehearted distance to someone who is borderline personality. Everything is so subtle.
Posts: 1885 | Registered: May 2001
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
You don't think he might break in ?
He has, in all likelihood, forgot where he left them... and, even if he did, once I knew what was missing, I would set the police on his sorry ass (I know where he hangs out)
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
I was just thinking if you left them somewhere accessible its less likely your property would get damaged.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
God yes. It took me years to work out that, when MrP asked me why I had done something, he really wanted to know and was not indirectly criticising me.
(We both have our own DR we have evolved coping mechanisms for; his is definitely more Difficult (i.e. psychopathic) but I think I am more fucked up because he rebelled whereas I went with the programme. In fact, it is only recently, having moved 100 miles away from her, that I have realised how dysfunctional that relationship is.)
One thing I remember thanking my ex husband for was, when we had arguments, they eventually ended. Sounds like a basic thing to be thankful for, but before him I never really experienced someone close to me being angry at me temporarily and lovng me most of the time.
Based on family, I think I have developed an assumption that if
Someone lets me know they dislike me, there is no going back from that. I will disliked by that person forever, no matter what I do. I think people who are turned on by withholding approval sense that in me, and play with it, but I also think I give up on people who potentially might like me based on the fact that they were annoyed with me one time. " That's it, I've lost them"
[ 03. January 2015, 22:04: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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crunt
Shipmate
# 1321
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Posted
My difficult relatives are kept well at arm's length - and beyond.
It's all good for me, but it is a little bit horrifying to realise that, actually, I am the difficult relative.
Everything is alright now, but when I was a lot younger I spent a lot of time in the homes of other family members without contributing very much at all in terms of money or labour. I've also got a smart mouth (tamed a bit now I know that not everyone thinks it's hilarious to say rude things).
I never meant to hurt anyone. I was just selfish and unaware, but probably thought of as difficult by the people whose needs I was selfishly unaware of. Luckily I matured a bit as I got older, so we all get along with each other now.
Living in another country helps as well.
Reading about some of the bullshit shipmates are dealing with is making me feel like I wasn't so bad after all - just thoughtless.
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QUIZ: Bible
QUIZ: world religions
LTL Discussion
languagespider.com
Posts: 269 | From: Up country in the middle of Malaysia | Registered: Sep 2001
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
quote:
Now I wanna know exactly what Mark said. If it was something along the lines of, " who gives a rats ass what you think?" I might be inclined to send him chocolate.
I've been thinking about this a fair bit (which is either useful mental preparation for next time, or catastrophising / vengeance fantasy, depending on who you talk to). On the day - no, too much old conditioning in play, and all that 'don't wind up your father, he'll take it out on me' stuff. Still, squeezing out a 'you have no right' wail was something of a PB.
But there is a useful outcome. I feel pretty peaceful about 'I'm no longer available to play bad child in anyone else's unilateral admonition exercise'.
It might be a bit complex to reach for in the heat of the next crisis, but it's working to cool off the catastrophising / vengeance fantasy.
I quite like Fruit and Nut, since you were asking ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
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Posted
OMFG my spoiled princess aunt.
At our last family reunion my female cousins and I were bonding over how difficult she was for us to deal with. The shit she's done over the years make it hard for me to even be in the same room with her sometimes. She's gotten better over the years, but she still expects way too much to be organized around what she thinks and feels and wants.
I recently got in touch with my dead mother's best friend, who I haven't seen or talked to in ages. Apparently after my mother died my aunt - who has no relationship with this woman whatsoever - got in touch with her a couple times in order to talk shit about me and my mother. The best friend knew us well enough and knew enough about our relationship with [my aunt] and her lies (complete misinterpretations if I'm being charitable) not to believe her.
I'm fairly certain this is not the only time she has done this. And, like with my father and stepmother, the thing is that people sometimes believe her because she's family and after all she would know me and what I'm like and the kind of actions I'm likely to take better than anyone even though I learned early with all of them that I needed to place firm boundaries on our interactions because they're mean and nasty people. So they barely know me at all because they are people who will deliberately take away everything you care about in order to control and manipulate you to their own ends.
And she has the nerve to claim spiritual superiority because she just doesn't let stuff get to her the way I do.
How do I have so many people like this in my life? Are the majority of people really this mean and hateful and selfish or do I just have really bad luck?
[Edited to remove names. —A, HH]
[ 18. January 2015, 14:22: Message edited by: Ariston ]
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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
Sometimes families have a culture and someone is cast in a role. But if it keeps happening with people outside the family who don't know them, then it's worth asking yourself if they are being made by the die of your actions. I do know that I tend to expect to break relationships and a lot of that is on me.
My friend Robert who was married 4 times had a favorite Peter Cook/Dudley Moore bit;
"Do you learn from your mistakes"?
"Yes, I can repeat them exactly".
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
Folks, I know this is hell, but this monster thread probably needs no replication in AS, so if I may be permitted...
I've read a few shit self-help books on all this stuff (there, there's something as badass and hellish as I can muster right now) - but I am half-way through a good one:
P.T.Mason, R.Kreger, 'Stop walking on eggshells', New Harbinger (2nd ed. 2010)
The subtitle is 'taking your life back when someone you care about has borderline personality disorder' but could equally be the even less snappy 'regaining your sanity and hopefully starting to enjoy life again, whilst unavoidably engaged in relationship with someone displaying some of the symptoms of what some people have labelled 'borderline personality disorder''. In other words, I think it works even if your mad person (sorry, Difficult Relative) has no diagnosis, and indeed even if you're suspicious of the label as a diagnostic tool.
cheers
Mark
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
Nah, you're good to go.
Though naming and shaming the crap ones (with examples we can all point and laugh at) would be better.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Sounds like a good book M-in-M
Shame I don't have time to read it before a family funeral where I'll be encountering two of my siblings BOTH of whom have been diagnosed as having either/and/or serious personality disorder/paranoia/psychosis...
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
quote:
Though naming and shaming the crap ones (with examples we can all point and laugh at) would be better.
Oh G*d, I'm going to turn this corner of hell into 'book review corner'. Worse - 'self-help book review corner'. That's just too much like hell. One brief one - 'Children of the self-absorbed' had a good title but constant formatting / grammar problems made it hard to take the author's expertise seriously. The tone struck me as rather defensive, which is understandable - by contrast 'eggshells' asks me get my big boy panties on and realise that interactions with my (BPD) DR are going to require the plumbing of / growing of deep reserves of maturity, tact and appropriate self-assertion, if any kind of relationship is going to be possible. It leaves open the possibility of complete separation, but I've not got to that bit yet.
[ 30. January 2015, 19:14: Message edited by: mark_in_manchester ]
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
I can't tell you much about maturity and tact, but I heartily applaud any efforts at self-assertion by this thread's regulars.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Re regaining (or gaining!) a life, per the book described:
Getting out of state helps--for school, work, travel, whatever you can work out. Presuming your DR has enough control/sense not to come find you (or little cash), then at least you won't have to deal with them in person.
Sometimes, you can and should make a total break. If you can't or won't, then at least try to limit contact.
If you can manage it, don't tell them where you are--though this can exacerbate some DRs. If you give them an e-mail address, don't use it for *anything* else. And do make up the contact info, when you register for it
Let phone calls roll over to an answering machine or voice-mail, if you can. You don't have to pick up, or return messages. If you do get caught in a call, then limit it. "Sorry, I've got an appointment", even if the appointment is just with yourself.
Here endeth the lesson. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
(I'm neither a lawyer nor a therapist, and this doesn't constitute professional advice.)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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squidgetsmum
Apprentice
# 17708
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Posted
My delightful mother-in-law once told me I should NEVER have any more children. This, I believe, was because I was "a bad mother" for disagreeing with her - it seriously is All About Her. Can't wait until she realises Squidge 2 is on the way. Thinking og buying popcorn.
Posts: 13 | Registered: May 2013
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Heh. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
So as per the Praise thread in AS, I am going through a rare good patch with Mom, and want to savor it while it lasts. But as if someone rang a bell and signaled a bump in my self esteem, a couple extended family members randomly had a case of the insufferables.
This has long been a question of mine-- when someone only ever addresses someone to say something negative, do they think that person doesn't notice?
To whit- i had a two month upper respiratory ailment this summer, let my fb family members know-- these two said nothing. For two days straight I have been crowing about my new job-- could care less. Birthdays, graduations, prayer requests, greetings I sent out to them-- nothing. But they do show up to offer a Snopes correction to an article I was pretending I believed, stuff like that.
It is not that I expect people to hover over my every word-- in fact, I assume most people don't. But if you are going to spend the better part of two years (i'm not kidding) ignoring my existence, do me a favor and just keep right in doing it. Why is it you think you are the one I want to tell me that the jpeg I shared is really, really old, or that I misspelled someone's name, or that I'm totally wrong about who was the best Walton?
The one time-- one time!-- I posted an exercise brag on fb about a six mile solo hike I had just finished, one of these idiots showed up to repeatedly redirect the generally friendly conversation to the topic of how bad I must have smelled afterwards. Fucking go away. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
[ 31. January 2015, 21:09: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Unfriend them. Or change your settings so they don't see your posts, or at least can't comment on them.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
There's specific arenas in which I can't avoid them. Otherwise-- already done.
You see my logic, though, right? If there was someone in your sphere that ordinarily you didn't feel was interesting enough to interact with, would you feel comfortable having your first words to them in over a year be something like, " You like pesto? Ugh, how can you stand pesto?"
It's not that I am overcome with offense, or can't strategize around it, I just don't get why someone would bother. Easy to tag such folk as idiots, and the idiots ye shall always have with you, I guess.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
It's like phototropic plants. Some people just have this kink in their sphincters oops brains that pushes them naturally and inevitably toward assholery. Betcha they don't even know they're doing it. (This kind of pattern is the reason some of us look at each other and say "shoot me if I ever get like that," while the relative under consideration goes on obliviously.)
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Kelly--
Maybe they think being mean is the only thing that's worth their time? So they only pipe up when they see an opportunity to be mean.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I think it's more a need to feel superior, but still-- what a dull life one must leave, if one has to resort to scoring points off of people's FB posts to feel good about one's self.
Maybe I should just reverse the superiority polarity and pat myself on the back for being at least emotionally secure enough to find that attitude maddeningly baffling.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
When I was a kid, I knew an adult whose just about every word was venomous, and caused a lot of harm. They really couldn't stop. I don't know what filled them with such poison. I couldn't stand them, and was very glad that being around them was a rare thing.
Then there were others...have you ever seen the episode of "Doc Martin" where his semi-estranged parents come to visit? Martin's mom unloads decades of venom on him--how he ruined her life because, after the pregnancy, her beloved husband didn't care about her any more. When I was a kid, there was someone in the household who felt that way about me--as well as loving me, and being (undiagnosed) mentally ill. They, at best. had severely mixed feelings about me--and never came to terms with them. I had to live with that every day. I found out, decades later, that other relatives--who I loved, and who I thought loved me--also thought I ruined this person's life. The kicker is that they cast me as the black sheep, and they're the ones who really are, in all sorts of ways. And I loved them anyway.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Candles? You're using candles in the realm of fiery damnation?
I don't know. You try to go for a big effect and then some twerp goes for mood lighting...
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Ooo, pine scent. Nice!
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
quote:
what a dull life one must leave, if one has to resort to scoring points off of people's FB posts to feel good about one's self.
The more I read, the more I'd scratch 'dull' to insert 'utterly and perhaps irreparably damaged'.
This be the verse .
This realisation might eventually help me to stop wanting to punch my exponents. Not yet, though.
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
Missed the window.
Golden Key - I've had a big dollop of that too - it seems likely my own DR(s) will also go to the grave untreated and unchallenged. I'm glad to have the chance to try to become a grown-up in mid-life - I don't think they're ever going to get over whatever shit it was that got to them all those decades ago. But hey ho, they'll surely share it with me a few more times.
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
Think of them not as candles but as small torches. They are a tradition for crowds that show up with pitchforks.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Ooh, nice save!
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
Think of them not as candles but as small torches. They are a tradition for crowds that show up with pitchforks.
![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Just back from difficult family funeral.
Got the chance to chat to a cousin I haven't seen for 10 years - and definitely not since he left his wife for someone else.
BIG mistake! Got the third degree from my aunt (not his mother): what did we speak about? why? was x mentioned? was he sorry for splitting with his wife? etc, etc, etc.
All rather trying.
AND I've another funeral next week, with the same set of DRs - Yippee ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Would vague forgetfulness work? "Gee, I can't recall. We talked about football, that I do know..."
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
Can I just say how much being wired with bridge building/peace making tendencies sucks sometimes. Particularly with narcissistic relatives, who you know only want to dump on you. Because it's all about how they feel, right? Do I have a sign around my neck saying 'please inject poison here'?
Sigh.
Gearing up to answer an e-mail full of invective from one of my sisters about my other sister and wanting me to 'make her pay'. During her life this sibling has ostracised her parents, her three children, either me or the elder sister at whim and sadly will never know her grandchildren.
And academically she's the clever one.
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
There is no way, you know, that people know you have received an email. For all the sender knows, you have changed your email address. The InterToobz always eat stuff.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
Because I'm the only one in the family still in contact with her. The one shred of connection she still has.
I will not sever that connection because it is important for my 97 year old mother to hear occasionally how her 'brilliant' child is faring.
My husband refers to this sister of mine as 'the one who cuts herself with stones'. I am hopeful the last cut will not be made before my mother shuffles off her mortal coil, even though I know this sister will not come to the funeral.
Ain't families interesting. ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif)
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
hey Banner Lady - more un-hellish A.S. stuff from my book
If you must reply, you might try just being a 'mirror' - "Hey, it certainly sounds like you're really pissed off with ***. I'm sorry to hear that - really. Me and her get along pretty well, most of the time." Just reflect her stuff back - it helps her because she knows she's being heard, she gets the chance (over time - unfortunately for you both, probably a LONG time) to consider if she really means that shit - and you don't have to be creative or dissembling in your response, which helps you too. She'll hate it, but that's OK.
(Now. Address. My. Own. Problems.)
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
Wrong. Families are hellish a lot of the time. This thread was bound to end up here. But a lot of the posts will be exasperated moans like mine rather than rants.
And may shards of very sharp light fall hard on all who make up past family history in order to convince everyone else to be sorry for them. Even if it is fascinating reading.
Do most of us make up fictoricals as we go through life? Do we all massage the back story? My siblings are close in age and grew up together, but the eldest one swears it must have been in different households because of all the fiction put about by the middle child sister. I don't comment as a rule, because I wasn't born till a decade later. Meh.
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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