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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Difficult relatives
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Tempting.
One last horn toot in the pity party and then I'll shut up: I had missed a family party that the Neez and Nephs threw before they traveled out of state for Christmas. Mom offered to take my gifts and hand them off to Sis. Since there was chocolate involved and I didn't want it to turn stale, I caved in ( my original plan was to get together with them and hand them out personally.)
So, the entire family was gathered without me, and Mom got to play Santa with my gifts for the kids.
Because I was pissed, and because I wanted to counteract whatever " I guess that meeting is more important than us" comments were being made, I hopped on one of the posted pics and as cordially as I could, explained what had been told to me about attendance that night and that the last communication I'd heard seemed to indicate they were still discussing a day to meet.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Srsly, I think you should consider taking a job overseas. Couple of my acquaintance having whale of a time teaching in Brunei. If you have scruples about the likes of Abu Dabai, then Nepal...
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I was wistfully poking around Chilean Patagonia the other day on street view. I could teach English...
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
You could consider doing something like this for a year or two: http://www.boarding.org.uk/job-board/37/Resident-Deputy-Housemistress residential posts can be a good opportunity to boost your savings in preparation for new step in life.
(I assume the US has some similar type places.)
[ 16. January 2016, 17:28: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Why I mentioned Nepal... Friend spent time in remote village training the teachers in the local school. Even with the language barrier, the impact of those few weeks has probably been enough to change things for those children for years to come.
As the Man said: 'Family? what family? People doing radically good stuff are my brothers and sisters'. (Obviously I paraphrase a bit, but the point is: you don't have to put up with this lot. There is another family waiting, one that you chose).
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
This looks like it would be well cool - http://www.vsointernational.org/volunteer/professional/professional-vacancies?_ga=1.259882186.1772237399.1452968975?_ga=1.259 882186.1772237399.1452968975.
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
in remote village training the teachers in the local school.
you don't have to put up with this lot. There is another family waiting, one that you chose.
A friend gets jobs living in an old person's private home so there is someone at night to respond to an emergency like a fall. We did that for grandma, hired someone to be there at night, no cooking or cleaning, maybe a little personal help getting out of a bathtub, might occasionally play cards together but not required. Life with no rent expense, sleep there at night, days free to hold down a real job.
Not sayin' "do this" but maybe this conversation can spark ideas of whole other ways to live.
I like the idea of take an overseas job teaching. The Oxford certificate for TEFL costs about $1000, is a lot of work for a month, and widely recognized -- but look into it carefully opportunities and reported experiences before jumping. I almost took the course but accidentally learned no countries give the work visa if you are over 50 unless you've already been working there. Wish I had looked into it a decade earlier. (The migrant situation may have changed that?){URL=https://www.oxfordseminars.com/tesol-tesl-tefl-course/]Oxford certificate course for teach english as foreign language[/URL]
An uncle got a job teaching English (with no teacher experience and no TEFL certificate) in his 70s through a missionary organization -- there may be many routes.
A friend moved to one of the Caribbean islands to work as a bartender for several years, loved it.
Took me too long to realize the traditional route of take a job buy a house eventually retire is the rat race singles are free to escape and do something very different!
Also took me too long to realize I have no family. When they did the leave and cleave thing they created their own new family; the people who I think of as family don't think of me as family because they have a different family now. I have to self define as "I have no family" and build a different but good life on that reality.
One advantage of finding out of state or oversees jobs - the familied often think the single one has free time to be the parent caretaker. Leaving town makes that impossible even if they resent you for not being there to do your supposed duty.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
age limits for teaching english overseas
This may be more accurate than the article I read saying no one over 50. But older folks definitely have more trouble finding job. Still, English is the language all the world has to learn. If the cut off is 70 a school won't hire someone getting near that.
I know people who moved to a country and taught English privately, private lessons. Formal schools aren't the only way.
If you've never lived overseas (generic you) - do it! Its an amazing world.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
We had a wonderful friend who went off to teach English at the age of 68. She had a ball. She was a very experienced teacher though.
[ 17. January 2016, 01:04: Message edited by: Arabella Purity Winterbottom ]
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Re older folks starting new careers:
IIRC, Miss Lillian, Pres. Carter's mom, joined the Peace Corps when she was...in her 80s, maybe?
As far as the Peace Corps goes, there's a hidden rape problem there, too. There've been expose`s.
[ 17. January 2016, 03:14: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Maybe we can start a thread titled "plans for running away from home" in All Saints. For now I return to-- fuck them both, especially for getting the kids involved. Fuck them.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
I'd be up for that thread, Kelly.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I hear that. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
At the right moment, you might ask your sister who put the thought that you cared more about the meeting than her birthday into her head.
That cursing to ridiculousness is something Rabbi Lionel Blue suggested - "May you find 6 substitute daughters or sisters who seem to be all you want and drown you in sugar."
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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The Phantom Flan Flinger
Shipmate
# 8891
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Posted
So, my grandfather died on Boxing Day.
The 4 children try to arrange the funeral etc.
Second youngest decides that the funeral should be all about her and her children, puts the most appallingly written tribute in the local newspaper, insists that her children will carry the coffin (one of them wearing jeans and a hoodie), insists on reading the poem that my mother wanted to read, doesn't speak to anyone including her own mother, and leaves without a word.
Grrrr.
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http://www.faith-hope-and-confusion.com/
Posts: 1020 | From: Leicester, England | Registered: Dec 2004
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
When my aunt died there was a small funeral including some people who hadn't talked in 20 years. The aunts daughter read a speech which was quite eloquent about the aunt. I found out later it was the one that had been written for the late mother of the other cousin who was attending that the speaker decided was too nice not to plagiarize. I don't think they'll be talking for the next 20 years.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Good grief. Funerals bring out the asshole in some folk, don't they?
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
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Posted
It sure does. When my MIL died one of her children took over completely.
The other siblings were not allowed to even choose a hymn, she didn't even tell them who the undertaker was or which pastor was taking it or when they were meeting him.
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009
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Beenster
Shipmate
# 242
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Posted
I wrote most of the address for dad's funeral.
The preacher (a relative) was more than happy to take the credit. Silly bitch.
Posts: 1885 | Registered: May 2001
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beenster:
I wrote most of the address for dad's funeral.
The preacher (a relative) was more than happy to take the credit. Silly bitch.
That's awful. When I do a funeral in those circumstances I always say something along the lines of "Bert's son/daughter/brother/whatever wrote this tribute which I'm going to read to,you now"
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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The Phantom Flan Flinger
Shipmate
# 8891
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Posted
It goes on.
Second youngest daughter wants to commandeer the ashes, so that my Granddad can go "home" (he came to the UK from what was then Czechoslovakia).
This despite him never mentioning wanting to go back - ever.
Ah, but, the kicker is, my Mum is the next-of-kin, and the undertaker won't release the ashes without her say so ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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http://www.faith-hope-and-confusion.com/
Posts: 1020 | From: Leicester, England | Registered: Dec 2004
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Sometimes people have their ashes scatterd / buried in two places - perhaps a compromise could be reached ?
[ 18. January 2016, 09:41: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Get an urn with something else in for her to lug over to Bratislava or wherever, and do what Mum wants with the real one.
Is this too horrible of me?
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Get an urn with something else in for her to lug over to Bratislava or wherever, and do what Mum wants with the real one.
Is this too horrible of me?
I'm sitting here thinking of all sorts of possible replacements...
But a word of caution. If you're taking the ashes (or whatever substitute) on a plane, they cannot be in an urn. You would need to check what your airport security regulations are. (I had to take my parents' ashes in clear plastic bags inside plain cardboard boxes so they could be x-rayed.)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Pidwigeon
My mind is now trying to think of something cheap, legal but that would set off airport security. I know naughty.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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kingsfold
Shipmate
# 1726
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Posted
Kitty litter?
Mixed with just a few iron filings, enough to cause problems on X-ray?
Posts: 4473 | From: land of the wee midgie | Registered: Nov 2001
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Beenster
Shipmate
# 242
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
quote:
Originally posted by Beenster:
I wrote most of the address for dad's funeral.
The preacher (a relative) was more than happy to take the credit. Silly bitch.
That's awful. When I do a funeral in those circumstances I always say something along the lines of "Bert's son/daughter/brother/whatever wrote this tribute which I'm going to read to,you now"
Thank you that means a lot. I was so proud of my little prose, randomly written but it was full of energy and really encapsulated dad. My siblings did have parts said in the address and were credited.
So, I looked like a crappy little shit.
I didn't have the energy to mind and thought I was being petulant. Had I complained that's what mum would have said to me.
Posts: 1885 | Registered: May 2001
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Beenster
Shipmate
# 242
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Posted
I knew this would happen but I'm still batshit crazy about it.
A good visit with mum last weekend. She was nurturing, kind and supportive.
Since then, the boundaries are screwed. She is more insistent than ever. Phone calls which I ignore and plaintiff messages "I haven't heard from you for ages". Passive aggressive overload.
I'm in hot water for not thanking that stupid sister of mine for the present. I thought I would leave it 3 weeks and then write 46 words - same as she did. Or perhaps I should write 47 words. I picked up my present a week ago - she was too effing lazy to post it miserable bugger.
Posts: 1885 | Registered: May 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
It's so much easier when they refrain from being kind and supportive. If they would just stay perfect shits all the time, they wouldn't catch us with our guards down when they revert to normal.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Beenster
Shipmate
# 242
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Posted
That's just on the money LC. It's so easy when they're shits, when they pop the head above the parapet and are nice, the expectation is (or it feels for me) that I drop everything and am at her bec and call. There is now the sense of entitlement from her.
It's tough. She can feel entitled. She was so fucking angry in one of the messages on the voicemail. Why haven't you called!!!! It seems ages since I cooked you a roast and then did bla bla bla and dropped you off without so much of a backward wave. Oh to get the knife in. I diffused the anger with a breezy - oh i've been busy. That went down badly. What, didn't you have time for a 5 min call.
I wish i was one of those people who could divorce my mother. But I just can't.
Anyway. She ain't getting the Easter visit she told me to organise and she ain't getting the weekly phone calls she expects.
Posts: 1885 | Registered: May 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
oh yeah. This is really shitty of me but I've been known to use behavior modification (of the sort you use on toddlers and dogs) on these people. As in, "I don't appreciate you doing X. Here are the consequences for you doing X in the future. If you do X, I will do Y every bloody time." And then sticking to it. Which sucks, because it requires being a total adult (which is hard hard HARD) and also having to follow through every freaking time.
Still, it has worked. I had one who insisted on saying shitty critical things about other relatives to me which I really did not want to hear (esp. since I was certain she was doing the same about me to them). And when confronted it was always "because I care about you" and hurt feelings and "You're so mean" crap.
I finally got her to stop by making it clear that I would hang up, leave or otherwise end the conversation if she started up any of that crap with me, every freaking time. It led to about three years of tension, but she doesn't do it anymore.
The same technique worked for getting her to stop offering me criticism/"advice" about my weight. She now realizes that bringing up that topic, even in a roundabout way, will lead to an abrupt and sudden change of subject along the lines of "Oops, just remembered I've got to go now, bye." In a very obvious, transparent, don't give a shit if you call me rude way.
Small victories, but it is so, so nice not to have to listen to either of these two subjects anymore. There are still plenty of other things to give me fits with...
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beenster:
That's just on the money LC. It's so easy when they're shits, when they pop the head above the parapet and are nice, the expectation is (or it feels for me) that I drop everything and am at her bec and call.
Beenster - totally on target, and I'd try Lamb Chopped's strategy if my difficult relative was still alive.
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
This is really shitty of me ...
It's not, IMO. Sometimes you're really doing someone a favor when you train them out of bad behavior. They might even think twice about behaving that way with others. (No guarantee there, but you never know.)
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Beenster
Shipmate
# 242
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Posted
What RuthW said. Far from being shitty, people generally feel happier when they have sensible boundaries to stick to.
Being an adult with mum - hm. I have done it at least once in the past. It went down incredibly badly! The BDP in her brought out the victim in an incredibly powerful way. I thought never again but maybe that's what I must do, try over and over.
Posts: 1885 | Registered: May 2001
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The Intrepid Mrs S
Shipmate
# 17002
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Posted
Apart from anything else, Beenster, you can always point out that the telephone (unlike the TV) works in both directions
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Don't get your knickers in a twist over your advancing age. It achieves nothing and makes you walk funny.
Prayer should be our first recourse, not our last resort
'Lord, please give us patience. NOW!'
Posts: 1464 | From: Neither here nor there | Registered: Mar 2012
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beenster:
Being an adult with mum - hm. I have done it at least once in the past. It went down incredibly badly! The BDP in her brought out the victim in an incredibly powerful way. I thought never again but maybe that's what I must do, try over and over.
Ouch! Yes, that's why you need to do it (be an adult, I mean) and then get yourself the hell out of the eruption area before it can injure you, either by anger or by guilt trips/convincing victimhood. I have gone so far as to hang up on the person when the reaction starts--and I was raised with so much social inhibition that hanging up is the equivalent of me taking off all my clothes and strolling down Main Street.
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
It's self preservation. And when I feel guilty about that, I remind myself as Ruth said, "Sometimes you're really doing someone a favor when you train them out of bad behavior." I'm not going to be able to maintain that kindness if I don't get out of the firing range before she can damage me.
I admit, I usually cook up an excuse of the "I hear my mother calling/baby crying/dog vomiting/toilet overflowing" type. Because I have a real hangup about lying, I have been known to engineer such events ("Honey, when I gesture at you, would you please call me in a very urgent voice to get off the phone and help you?")
Whatever it takes to avoid a useless crucifixion.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beenster:
What RuthW said. Far from being shitty, people generally feel happier when they have sensible boundaries to stick to.
Being an adult with mum - hm. I have done it at least once in the past. It went down incredibly badly! The BDP in her brought out the victim in an incredibly powerful way. I thought never again but maybe that's what I must do, try over and over.
Try this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Change-Better-Through-Practical-Psychotherapy/dp/082646176X - helps you alter the dynamics of relationships. £6.00 relatively little to lose if the approach doesn't suit.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Another communication failure with my mother. I don't know which of us is the difficult relative.
Last week, Mum told me (on the phone) that my father had an unexpected result in a blood test and was having to have more blood tests carried out. She said they didn't know what was unexpected in his result, that the doctor hadn't told them anything, and that they didn't know what the next tests were for. It could be anything from terminal illness to something quite minor, such as dehydration.
This sort of vague, but potentially catastrophic news makes me very anxious. So I did what I usually do when coping with anxiety - I tried to get cold hard facts. I questioned Mum closely, then I googled. I concluded Dad was getting kidney function tests. My anxiety abated, because, I thought, at least I know what's going on.
Two days later my nephew mentioned that my parents were worrying about Dad's kidney function blood test. Turns out they had told him a completely different version, in which they knew exactly what the blood tests involved and the doctor had explained everything carefully.
![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
However my husband says that Mum was looking for an emotional reaction from me, because she was upset and wanted me to be upset too. And she would have known that if she'd said "kidney function test" my reaction wouldn't have been to burst into tears, but to go and read up on it. So she said "mystery blood test for unknown reason, possibly even potentially fatal" in the hope of some daughterly empathic emotion and distress.
But I just can't do it. I freeze emotionally round my mother.
Which of us is the difficult relative?
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
Which of us is the difficult relative?
The emotionally manipulative arsehole playing bullshit games?
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
However my husband says that Mum was looking for an emotional reaction from me, because she was upset and wanted me to be upset too.
Very astute. Sharp guy, your man.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
There are faults on both sides. Mum and I just can't seem to communicate. I don't hear what she's trying to say, and she doesn't hear what I'm trying to say.
I guess the whole "mystery blood test" thing was Mum trying to say that she was worried and wanted empathy.
I get confused and feel as though I'm floundering in jelly when there are different versions of events for different family members. The more I feel that I'm floundering, the more I try to establish cold, hard facts, to restore my sense of order. But I know I can overdo that. My husband calls it "doing a Spock"
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Kittyville
Shipmate
# 16106
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Posted
To be honest, NEQ, seeking cold hard facts sounds like an entirely necessary thing to do with your mother.
That said, my mother is also one who does multiple versions of "fact" and I have no patience for it whatsoever. There are the facts and anything other than the facts is telling lies, whatever your reasoning is. IMO, YMMV and so on.
Posts: 291 | From: Sydney | Registered: Dec 2010
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The Phantom Flan Flinger
Shipmate
# 8891
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
I guess the whole "mystery blood test" thing was Mum trying to say that she was worried and wanted empathy.
But then, she deliberately withheld information in order to get the reaction she wanted.
That is manipulative behaviour.
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http://www.faith-hope-and-confusion.com/
Posts: 1020 | From: Leicester, England | Registered: Dec 2004
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
]But then, she deliberately withheld information in order to get the reaction she wanted.
From what NEQ says, she did more than that: she didn't withhold information but altered it to suit her ends.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
quote:
The more I feel that I'm floundering, the more I try to establish cold, hard facts
I do that, and I too grew up with a drama merchant / liar. Stay with it - you will know the truth, and it will set you free.
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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