homepage
  roll on christmas  
click here to find out more about ship of fools click here to sign up for the ship of fools newsletter click here to support ship of fools
community the mystery worshipper gadgets for god caption competition foolishness features ship stuff
discussion boards live chat cafe avatars frequently-asked questions the ten commandments gallery private boards register for the boards
 
Ship of Fools


Post new thread  Post a reply
My profile login | Register | Directory | Search | FAQs | Board home
   - Printer-friendly view Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
» Ship of Fools   » Community discussion   » Hell   » Fucking Guns (Page 1)

 - Email this page to a friend or enemy.  
Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  4  ...  34  35  36 
 
Source: (consider it) Thread: Fucking Guns
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

 - Posted      Profile for Doublethink.   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Yet another college shooting, Oregon this time.

I predict:
  • People will call for gun control and it won't happen
  • The NRA will called for armed staff in schools and it might happen
  • The perpetrator/s will turn out to have been bullied/isolated at the college and previously at scholl
  • The perpetrator/s will turn out to have to been showing blindingly fucking obvious warning signs of deteriorating attitude and/or mental state
  • Fuck all else will change

The usual suspects, including me, will post on this thread and make same fucking arguments again.

I hate.

[ 01. October 2015, 20:12: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 18924 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

 - Posted      Profile for Doublethink.   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Oh yeah, and most/all of his gun related crap will turn out to have been legally owned.

--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 18924 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Wesley J

Silly Shipmate
# 6075

 - Posted      Profile for Wesley J   Email Wesley J   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
He's dead, Jim.

NEXT!

--------------------
Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)

Posts: 6962 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

 - Posted      Profile for orfeo   Author's homepage   Email orfeo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Want to express your anger and make a mark on the world? Want to be meaningful?

Shoot people. It's the American way of making yourself feel better at the expense of others.

Exactly how many months in a row is the President going to have to stand up and say something about the unique propensity of his country's citizens to do this?

[ 01. October 2015, 22:30: Message edited by: orfeo ]

--------------------
The musical diary has been updated in praise of Paul Dempsey.

Posts: 17471 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
RooK

Rusty Ice Cream Fork
# 1852

 - Posted      Profile for RooK   Author's homepage   Email RooK   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
It's fucking horrible.

We Oregonians also recently had a mass-shooting at a mall, and at a high school.

What.
The.
FUCK.

Posts: 14850 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

 - Posted      Profile for Alan Cresswell   Email Alan Cresswell   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
According to one definition of mass shooting (at least four victims, dead or injured) in 274 days this year there have been 294 mass shootings in the US (source, Washington Post). That is a rate in excess of one per day, on average. 380 people killed, over 1000 injured with a quarter of the year still to go.

That's just mass shootings. Put in all gun related incidents and that's nearly 10,000 people killed and 20,000 injured in 40,000 incidents. more people are killed by guns in the US every three months than were killed in the 9/11 attacks. The US administration went to war against a country that was not even remotely responsible for the 9/11 attacks because of the deaths of less than 3000 Americans, yet Congress does nothing about the deaths of over 10,000 a year. Does that make sense?

--------------------
Citizen of the world

Posts: 30883 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

 - Posted      Profile for mousethief   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Does that make sense?

Well, when you factor in the $$, it makes perfect sense.

--------------------
God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

Posts: 61287 | From: Ecotopia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

 - Posted      Profile for Kelly Alves   Email Kelly Alves   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
The US administration went to war against a country that was not even remotely responsible for the 9/11 attacks because of the deaths of less than 3000 Americans, yet Congress does nothing about the deaths of over 10,000 a year. Does that make sense?

Of course it doesn't.

A lot of the people who screamed for the war are the same ones blocking any discussion of reasonable gun control laws. They truly do not give a shit how much American blood is shed, at home or abroad.

Posts: 34875 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

 - Posted      Profile for Kelly Alves   Email Kelly Alves   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
'Murrican windbag says The Usual Stuff.

He couldn't possibly be as pissed off about this as anyone in the UK or Australia would be, though.

--------------------
"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

Posts: 34875 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

 - Posted      Profile for lilBuddha     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
'Murrican windbag says The Usual Stuff.

He couldn't possibly be as pissed off about this as anyone in the UK or Australia would be, though.

He took the politicise bullshit and owned it. what is wrong with this? Genuinely curious.

--------------------
And I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad
The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had

- Roland Orzabal

Posts: 14523 | From: out of the corner of your eye | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

 - Posted      Profile for Kelly Alves   Email Kelly Alves   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Sarcasm.

My in laws had to sell their house and leave town for a year to unregulated gun bullshit. I am not inclined to let the "American Way" crack pass.


I do thank Alan for at least pointing out that the fucking around about gun control results in loss of American lives. Or does one not rate as American unless one is pulling the trigger?

[ 02. October 2015, 01:49: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

--------------------
"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

Posts: 34875 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

 - Posted      Profile for Alan Cresswell   Email Alan Cresswell   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Another account of the Presidents speech
quote:
President Obama’s statement was bold and brave .... The President asked the American people to think
Bold and brave indeed.

Ask the people to think?

--------------------
Citizen of the world

Posts: 30883 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

 - Posted      Profile for Kelly Alves   Email Kelly Alves   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
It's more like, trying to get then to unthink what they are thinking-- "Holy God, if they take our guns, there will be a liberal police state!" and various other things that People Who Don't Give a Shit are telling them.

--------------------
"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

Posts: 34875 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

 - Posted      Profile for Kelly Alves   Email Kelly Alves   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
And Doublethink is right-- even Obama is saying, "How many times do we have to say the same old shit?"

--------------------
"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

Posts: 34875 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

 - Posted      Profile for Alan Cresswell   Email Alan Cresswell   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
It's more like, trying to get then to unthink what they are thinking-- "Holy God, if they take our guns, there will be a liberal police state!" and various other things that People Who Don't Give a Shit are telling them.

Well, I suppose that depends on whether people are thinking that, or just turned their brains to neutral and accepting what Fox News tells them. If someone has actually sat down and considered things and reached the conclusion "we need our guns to protect us from a liberal police state" then I'd say they're nuts, but their thinking. I don't think that's what happens though, is it? People just take what's fed them from the right wing media, and follow blindly, unthinkingly, where they are led.

--------------------
Citizen of the world

Posts: 30883 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

 - Posted      Profile for Kelly Alves   Email Kelly Alves   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Beats me... maybe we need to go out and interview gun rights advocates or something, because most people I know, even gun owners, have common sense ideas about gun control laws. I can't even begin to think how you get to the place where you think the situation we are in is preferable to making some sensible changes.

--------------------
"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

Posts: 34875 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

 - Posted      Profile for Kelly Alves   Email Kelly Alves   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I am haunted by a local town meeting incident, in which all of the council except one member voted to deny a business license to a gun shop owner who wanted to put his shop a block away from the local high school. They asked the owner to find a different storefront (at a time when many storefronts were available in the town.) The minute the mayor banged her gavel, arrow of-- suits, really, with Ray-Bans and trench coats-- jumped up from the last row of seats and filed out, quickly. Within a month the store opened in the location near the high school. Apparently they had "lawyered up."

Who the fuck are these people? It was like they swept in out of nowhere.

The "brand" (if you will) that they are associated also owns: a local coffee shop, a couple local car dealerships, and one other business I can't remember. To me, it reeked of money talks. Like RuthW keeps saying, we are an oligarchy at this point.

[ 02. October 2015, 02:34: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

--------------------
"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

Posts: 34875 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

 - Posted      Profile for Golden Key   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
NPR (maybe the "Marketplace" show?) mentioned today ShootingTracker.com. It's been crashing--probably due to over use.

But you may be able to get directly to the 2015 stats here.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 16377 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

 - Posted      Profile for mousethief   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:

quote:
President Obama’s statement was bold and brave .... The President asked the American people to think
Bold and brave indeed.

Ask the people to think?

Bah. Is it bold and brave to ask a turtle to fly?

--------------------
God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

Posts: 61287 | From: Ecotopia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

 - Posted      Profile for Penny S     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
It is expedient for the few to die to maintain the liberties of the many.

Or some such rubbish.

Posts: 5004 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

 - Posted      Profile for Lamb Chopped   Email Lamb Chopped   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I've been ducking the NRA renewal phone calls for several months now. We were basically forced into membership in order to meet a Boy Scout training requirement for Mr. Lamb, but have no intentions of re-upping now that the certificate is in hand. But man are they persistent. (one more call today)

--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 19184 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

 - Posted      Profile for lilBuddha     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:

quote:
President Obama’s statement was bold and brave .... The President asked the American people to think
Bold and brave indeed.

Ask the people to think?

Bah. Is it bold and brave to ask a turtle to fly?
Flying turtles aside, I don't think it is bold or brave for a person who will no longer be standing for election.
However, I thought the bit neutralising the "politicise" rubbish the gun lobbies paid puppets trot out, was a good maneuver.

--------------------
And I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad
The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had

- Roland Orzabal

Posts: 14523 | From: out of the corner of your eye | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Wesley J

Silly Shipmate
# 6075

 - Posted      Profile for Wesley J   Email Wesley J   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
I've been ducking the NRA renewal phone calls for several months now. We were basically forced into membership in order to meet a Boy Scout training requirement for Mr. Lamb, but have no intentions of re-upping now that the certificate is in hand. But man are they persistent. (one more call today)

They might try and shoot people who don't renew - thus proving that they, and guns, are needed. Wouldn't surprise me. At. All.

--------------------
Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)

Posts: 6962 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

 - Posted      Profile for Alan Cresswell   Email Alan Cresswell   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I don't think it is bold or brave for a person who will no longer be standing for election.

So, we're waiting for Hilary or Donald to make a statement regarding gun control?

--------------------
Citizen of the world

Posts: 30883 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

 - Posted      Profile for Kelly Alves   Email Kelly Alves   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Bet Bernie already has.

--------------------
"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

Posts: 34875 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

 - Posted      Profile for Kelly Alves   Email Kelly Alves   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Well, shucks.

--------------------
"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

Posts: 34875 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

 - Posted      Profile for Alan Cresswell   Email Alan Cresswell   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
You know, if I was American I'd vote for Bernie. But, that's because I have FB friends who keep posting reports on what he's been saying. If I relied on the news media I'd have never heard of him.

--------------------
Citizen of the world

Posts: 30883 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

 - Posted      Profile for Boogie     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
From the CNN report

quote:
Investigators have interviewed members of his family and friends, they said.

"I will not name the shooter," Hanlin said. "I will not give him the credit he probably sought."

This is what should happen every time. No notoriety, no names given, ever. None.

It may start to lesson the number of people who do it to go down in lights.

[Frown] [Tear]

[ 02. October 2015, 07:27: Message edited by: Boogie ]

--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk

Posts: 11872 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

 - Posted      Profile for mr cheesy   Email mr cheesy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
A saw this video by a group of people who want to reform the US gun laws, which I thought was quite powerful.

It isn't graphic, but it is disturbing. I don't know if it has any effect on those who buy guns.

Anyway..


here it is

--------------------
Pass me a book I've read
Pass me a fresh cut flower
And ask me what I dread
That the good in me is dead

Posts: 7027 | From: da wales | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

 - Posted      Profile for Kelly Alves   Email Kelly Alves   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
From the CNN report

quote:
Investigators have interviewed members of his family and friends, they said.

"I will not name the shooter," Hanlin said. "I will not give him the credit he probably sought."

This is what should happen every time. No notoriety, no names given, ever. None.

It may start to lesson the number of people who do it to go down in lights.

[Frown] [Tear]

That is a great idea. Hope it catches on.

--------------------
"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

Posts: 34875 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

 - Posted      Profile for Golden Key   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
LC--

You're not alone in getting those calls. I did a search on "how to stop the NRA", and there were many hits from people in your situation.

Good luck.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 16377 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
St Deird
Shipmate
# 7631

 - Posted      Profile for St Deird   Author's homepage   Email St Deird   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
You know, if I was American I'd vote for Bernie. But, that's because I have FB friends who keep posting reports on what he's been saying. If I relied on the news media I'd have never heard of him.

He's the real life Jed Bartlett, in other words?

--------------------
They're not hobbies; they're a robust post-apocalyptic skill-set.

Posts: 317 | From: the other side of nowhere | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

 - Posted      Profile for Kelly Alves   Email Kelly Alves   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
More like the real life Henry Drummond.

--------------------
"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

Posts: 34875 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

 - Posted      Profile for Alan Cresswell   Email Alan Cresswell   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
who?

--------------------
Citizen of the world

Posts: 30883 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

 - Posted      Profile for Sioni Sais   Email Sioni Sais   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
It is expedient for the few to die to maintain the liberties of the many.

Or some such rubbish.

And the deaths continue.

I'm just old enough to remember the anti-breathalyzer and anti-seatbelts campaigns of the 1960s here in Britain, quoting the same authoritarianism.

--------------------
When you are dead, you won't even know you are dead. It is a pain felt only by others.

Same if you're stupid.

Posts: 23283 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

 - Posted      Profile for Golden Key   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I don't think it is bold or brave for a person who will no longer be standing for election.

So, we're waiting for Hilary or Donald to make a statement regarding gun control?
Yahoo article has candidate comments about halfway down the page, after the tweets.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 16377 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
passer

Indigo
# 13329

 - Posted      Profile for passer   Email passer   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Another mass killing followed by the traditional yadda, yadda, yadda, as DT pointed out, to be followed soon by.... the traditional nothing.

I watch these reports, and the only thought I have nowadays, having become desensitized to the detail and the righteous words and the expostulative proclamations of the gun nuts, is a genuine curiosity as to what it will actually take to overcome this onanistic need to unnecessarily own an unnecessarily powerful gun.

Somewhere there is presumably an elusive tipping-point, where something so truly horrific occurs that the NRA will be emasculated and its supporters will shamefacedly slink off and pretend never to have heard of it. (Whilst secreting their arsenals in dark places just in case there's another revolution.... just in case.)

Until then, I guess I'll just metaphorically chew gum and listen to the reports of another shooting, followed by the obligatory press conferences from the local law-enforcement officers, and the governor, and the president, all of whom thank the first-responders ('cause it's in the script - Yes, there's a script) and ask for prayers (oh, the irony) and just generally look uncomfortable at being here again.

Posts: 1257 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

 - Posted      Profile for orfeo   Author's homepage   Email orfeo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
I watch these reports, and the only thought I have nowadays, having become desensitized to the detail and the righteous words and the expostulative proclamations of the gun nuts, is a genuine curiosity as to what it will actually take to overcome this onanistic need to unnecessarily own an unnecessarily powerful gun.

There is a school of thought that if Sandy Hook wasn't sufficient, nothing will be.

I think about the only thing that might still work is if the victims of a mass shooting are rich, powerful, right wing and gun nuts.

--------------------
The musical diary has been updated in praise of Paul Dempsey.

Posts: 17471 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812

 - Posted      Profile for Gamaliel   Author's homepage   Email Gamaliel   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Don't you read The Grauniad, Alan?

Lots about Bernie in there.

--------------------
Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

Posts: 13907 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
bib
Shipmate
# 13074

 - Posted      Profile for bib     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I'm afraid I just don't understand why people need guns. Someone told me that they need a gun in case someone else has a gun. That just doesn't make sense as the situation will just snowball. It is always going to be difficult to disarm the criminals, but surely if the rest of the population turned in their guns it would make such a difference to the gun problem in the USA.

--------------------
"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"

Posts: 1217 | From: Tasmania Australia | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

 - Posted      Profile for Alan Cresswell   Email Alan Cresswell   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Don't you read The Grauniad, Alan?

Lots about Bernie in there.

It's been a long time since I've had time to read a paper. I get most of my news from the BBC (Breakfast when I'm in the UK, online from here).

--------------------
Citizen of the world

Posts: 30883 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

 - Posted      Profile for Sioni Sais   Email Sioni Sais   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
I watch these reports, and the only thought I have nowadays, having become desensitized to the detail and the righteous words and the expostulative proclamations of the gun nuts, is a genuine curiosity as to what it will actually take to overcome this onanistic need to unnecessarily own an unnecessarily powerful gun.

There is a school of thought that if Sandy Hook wasn't sufficient, nothing will be.

I think about the only thing that might still work is if the victims of a mass shooting are rich, powerful, right wing and gun nuts.

That is, AIUI, is the NRA's primary objective. Back in the eighteenth century when the westerm coast of North America was a British colony, some of the local population took arms and used violence to succesfully overthrow their then rulers.

I suppose the NRA stand for the right to do the same sort of thing again should their rulers once again take no notice of the will of the people (according that is to those who run the NRA), but I would have thought the 1861-1865 war would be enough to inform people how wrong that is.

--------------------
When you are dead, you won't even know you are dead. It is a pain felt only by others.

Same if you're stupid.

Posts: 23283 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110

 - Posted      Profile for Barnabas62   Email Barnabas62   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Republican Party, NRA have blood on their hands.

--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

Posts: 20147 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812

 - Posted      Profile for Gamaliel   Author's homepage   Email Gamaliel   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Hmmm ... I think you'll find that the 13 Colonies were on the eastern coast of what is now the USA, Sioni.

The 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution enshrined the right of citizens to bear arms, of course - at a time when the fledgling republic had a tiny standing army and in the context of a 'well-ordered militia'.

The whole point was that they could defend themselves against slave uprisings or attacks from Native Americans (often sponsored by the British over the border in Canada) if their standing army and militia were engaged elsewhere.

It made perfect sense in a frontier setting and when there was nothing more lethal to hand than single shot muzzle-loading muskets and hunting rifles.

I've heard it said - by an American who knows a fair bit of history - that later on and even in the Wild West guns weren't generally openly on show. The whole thing about guys sat dealing stud in honky-tonk saloons with revolvers protruding from their belts is partially mythological. In many western towns you were required to hand your guns into the marshal when you arrived in town and they were impounded until you rode away again.

Of course, guns have always been more common in the US than most western European countries - but generally .22 hunting rifles and so on rather than the AK47s and semi-automatics that seem to be the weapon of choice for those who go on mass shooting sprees.

Whilst the whole gun culture thing is attached to particular views of 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' in some people's minds, then there ain't gonna be any change any time soon.

--------------------
Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

Posts: 13907 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

 - Posted      Profile for romanlion     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
What does "common sense" gun regulation actually mean?

Same old yadda, yadda is right judging by this thread. What exactly do you all suggest would have stopped this or any other mass shooting? And if you say bans and confiscation then you are an idiot.

And to those who can't understand why people need guns, why do people need alcohol? Certainly alcohol is killing on a similar pace each year.

If grown folks can't handle gun ownership then they can't handle alcohol either. Alcohol prohibition worked out so well, why did we ever give up on it? Same for "illegal" drugs. How can we possibly be suffering through an epidemic of heroin deaths when heroin has been illegal for decades?

Easier to blame the guns than the culture and the leaders thereof, I suppose.

--------------------
"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

Posts: 1328 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
# 15351

 - Posted      Profile for Snags   Author's homepage   Email Snags   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Do you not think that the mass ownership of guns is perhaps in some way intrinsically linked with the culture, then?

You don't have to ban guns. Imposing slightly more barriers to ownership and restrictions on use might not go amiss, though.

--------------------
Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)

Posts: 1348 | From: just north of That London | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

 - Posted      Profile for Sioni Sais   Email Sioni Sais   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Firstly, thanks to Gamaliel for at least reading for comprehension.

Romanlion makes a good point. Culture and leadership contribute to the behaviour of everyone in society and to my mind our leaders, in business and government primarily but right the way down to middle-managers and supervisors feel that they have to be seen as strong and powerful. With that motivation, it can hardly be surpisning that when a "difficult decision" needs to be made they takes the option that makes them look most powerful.

That isn't always (I'd venture that it is very rarely) the best option but it does account for a lot of macho posturing by those in positions of power. If we look at those who have taken guns into schools and colleges and shot a dozen or so classmates I expect we will find that the huge majority are anonymous nobodies with no power, status and responsibility and that they were unknown outside their home town until the took a gun into school.

YMMV, but I reckon our leaders at all levels need to consider outcomes more than the maintenance of their own status.

--------------------
When you are dead, you won't even know you are dead. It is a pain felt only by others.

Same if you're stupid.

Posts: 23283 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

 - Posted      Profile for Pigwidgeon   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
A saw this video by a group of people who want to reform the US gun laws, which I thought was quite powerful.

It isn't graphic, but it is disturbing. I don't know if it has any effect on those who buy guns.

Anyway..


here it is

Wow.

--------------------
"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."

~Tortuf

Posts: 8380 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

 - Posted      Profile for Alan Cresswell   Email Alan Cresswell   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
What does "common sense" gun regulation actually mean?

It starts with the recognition that things aren't going to change overnight.

It starts with a national discussion on what are the legitimate reasons why someone might need a gun. An ongoing discussion that in 10, 20, 30 years may result in the number of reasons why people might have a gun decreasing.

And, coupled to that what sort of guns are suitable for the reasons people have guns.

It includes a discussion on licensing. What restrictions get placed on who can have a gun licence? Do you need a license for each gun, or simply a license to have guns? Does the license include requirements for safe storage of guns?

And, have some form of amnesty mechanism where people with guns they don't need can turn them into the police for destruction, probably with some form of financial compensation (with accompanying proof of ownership - though the thought of crooks handing over illegal weapons in exchange for ready cash does appeal!).

And, finally, don't have high expectations of a very rapid transition to a gun-free society. When the country is awash with more guns than people it's going to take a long time for there to be a significant reduction in the number of guns in society.

--------------------
Citizen of the world

Posts: 30883 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
passer

Indigo
# 13329

 - Posted      Profile for passer   Email passer   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
In response to Obama's statement , one of my Facebook acquaintances, who obviously lives in the US, posted the following. The guy is a hard-working self-employed family man. He hunts, and has strong views on guns (if that wasn't obvious!) His political leanings may be apparent from this rant. He posts stuff like this often. I'm really not sure how one would address this kind of logic from an administrative or legislative perspective. Pandora's (gun)box has been well and truly opened in the US. #youareallgoingtodie

quote:
I do speak up, and I do agree it's all become routine. The tragedy, the sadness, the reaction, the call for more gun laws, the total dismissal of common sense. This ended when two more guns were introduced. Why is it so hard to understand that had others there had guns the whole thing may have never happened? Why is it so hard to admit that had it happened that less would have died? The tragedy of this routine is we collectively refuse to grant people the liberty to save themselves. That we continue to pretend it's the result of lax gun laws, when they have never been more restrictive and these tragedies have never been more common.
I speak up, and I place the blame squarely on people just like this man. Leaders who preach that good people need to sacrifice liberty to stop bad people, even though recent events clearly show that it's these restrictions that are the biggest contributor to these tragedies. Even though they surround themselves and their families with armed men. If it's common sense to provide armed guards for elected officials, because a small handful have been shot, how can it not be common sense that we would benefit from the same thing after so many have been killed like sheep in places they are forbidden to protect themselves. Shame on you Mr President.


Posts: 1257 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged



Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  4  ...  34  35  36 
 
Post new thread  Post a reply Close thread   Feature thread   Move thread   Delete thread Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
 - Printer-friendly view
Go to:

Contact us | Ship of Fools | Privacy statement

© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

 
Check out Reform magazine
sip of fools mugs from your favourite nautical website
 
  ship of fools