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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Fucking Guns
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saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Shooting folks is just post birth abortion. What's the problem. I also heard some genius saying that owning people and guns were both wanted by your founding slave raping and breeding USA constipation writers so what's the problem with either
No, really, keep going.
quote:
I’m not sure I even know what to do with his slavery analogy, which is so incoherent that one suspects he threw it in the piece just to add that extra little seasoning of racial demagoguery that every far-Left essay needs. But really, Watkins makes everybody a winner. He gets to moralize, his fans get to enjoy their two minutes hate, and law-abiding gun owners are reminded, once again, at how poorly they’re understood and how much they’re despised.
I'm sure it'll be fun for you to watch the war from Canada.
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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
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Eigon
Shipmate
# 4917
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Posted
Just catching up with this thread, and I noticed the comment from saysay about the man masturbating outside her house.
I would have thought that a bucket of cold water would have been more effective than a gun.
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Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
Posts: 3710 | From: Hay-on-Wye, town of books | Registered: Aug 2003
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Or a taser.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
It means the show glorifies the fucked-up, Wild West video game fantasy that many gun defending Americans appear to live in.
On a related tangent, it is also Randian porn.
“Access to women is the way for men to confirm their status, so the resentment is aimed at women, they’re not able to get that status. The resentment should really be towards the larger culture that makes these ridiculous definitions that men have to be dominant, have to be tall, have to be wealthy, all these kinds of things that really very few men can actually live up to."
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
I'm not sure if the big advert at the bottom for a "platoon rifle" with "consider your man card reissued", spoils or reaffirms it's point. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I took it as an illustration of the problem.
ETA yeah, I just checked-- it's not really a working ad; clicking it does not redirect anywhere. It's a still from an ad to underline the point of the article.
[ 19. October 2015, 07:28: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
Dad told the six year-old to leave the gun alone.
Because six-year-olds always obey instructions, and you never find them, for example, sitting in a big pile of mess in a room they're not supposed to be in. ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
Do these people also leave live exposed electrical conductors running around their home, and tell the kids "don't touch the metal"? Store bleach in a milk jug in the fridge, and tell the kids "don't drink the one on the left"? Or are they only stupid with guns?
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
All of the above. And they don't want no nanny state telling them how to raise their kids.
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
It is a sad and ugly way to do it, but these people are simply self-selecting themselves out of the gene pool. There is such a thing as too dumb to reproduce, and what could be more in that line than getting your own kids killed off.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
... There is such a thing as too dumb to reproduce ...
I was thinking something along those lines, BC - never mind not being allowed to have guns, maybe some people shouldn't be allowed to have children.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
I would be happy to see all these open-carry people in their own town or state or whatever, where they can whip out the assault rifle whenever the barista puts the wrong kind of milk into their skinny latte, or open fire whenever the minister in the pulpit meant to cite 2 Peter but instead referenced 1 Peter. Alas, they are among us, which makes life much more unpleasant for all of us.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
It is a sad and ugly way to do it, but these people are simply self-selecting themselves out of the gene pool. There is such a thing as too dumb to reproduce, and what could be more in that line than getting your own kids killed off.
It isn't genetic, it s cultural. Read Kelly's link, it illustrates this.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I would be happy to see all these open-carry people in their own town or state or whatever, where they can whip out the assault rifle whenever. . . .
Every once in a while, talk of secession comes up. I say let them secede, and take their guns with them.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
Do these people also leave live exposed electrical conductors running around their home, and tell the kids "don't touch the metal"? Store bleach in a milk jug in the fridge, and tell the kids "don't drink the one on the left"? Or are they only stupid with guns?
Most gun owners in the US are men. Most primary caregivers of children (and people who understand developmental stages and the reality that children frequently need to hear the same 'don't touch the stove it's hot' rule repeated multiple times etc.) are women. Most of the people who know proper gun safety and storage are men. Most of the people responsible for child-proofing the living space are women.
An awful lot of parents seem to suffer from the delusion that their children are too smart or know better than to touch or play with guns even if they have been given no explicit instruction when it comes to guns. Too many of them seem to believe that their children don't know where the guns are hidden when the kids do know.
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I would be happy to see all these open-carry people in their own town or state or whatever, where they can whip out the assault rifle whenever the barista puts the wrong kind of milk into their skinny latte, or open fire whenever the minister in the pulpit meant to cite 2 Peter but instead referenced 1 Peter. Alas, they are among us, which makes life much more unpleasant for all of us.
So open-carry advocates are now responsible for the fact that a gang member in Chicago had an illegal gun that was improperly stored in his home?
Have you ever actually met an open-carry advocate?
This thread just keeps getting more and more bizarre.
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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
Another father buys a gun "for protection." His three-year-old son was shot and killed by his six-year-old brother.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
This thread just keeps getting more and more bizarre.
I know that I have a self-blindness sometimes, but damn.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
This thread just keeps getting more and more bizarre.
Indeed it does. Just now, I'm trying to figure out what this bizarre statement means.
quote:
Most gun owners in the US are men. Most primary caregivers of children (and people who understand developmental stages and the reality that children frequently need to hear the same 'don't touch the stove it's hot' rule repeated multiple times etc.) are women. Most of the people who know proper gun safety and storage are men. Most of the people responsible for child-proofing the living space are women.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
It's all the fault of entitled white women - didn't you get saysay's memo?
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
Have you ever actually met an open-carry advocate?
I met one. He moved to Colorado over 20 years ago and his brother told me at the time that the guy was openly carrying. If I've seen others, I don't recall. Everyone I still know that carries have taken the ccw course and carry concealed.
About that guy in DC who was at your window masturbating, did he get re-elected?
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
So open-carry advocates are now responsible for the fact that a gang member in Chicago had an illegal gun that was improperly stored in his home?
Have you ever actually met an open-carry advocate?
This thread just keeps getting more and more bizarre.
1) Ex-gang member. You read the article before casting aspersions, right? You also researched the relevant gun laws in his jurisdiction and the matters of particular fact before coming to the conclusion that the gun was possessed illegally?
Of course you didn't.
Even in DC, if you have reason to believe that your life is in danger for a specific reason—like, say, you snitched on your ex-gang—you are allowed to carry a handgun.
2) Met open carry advocates? Related to quite a few. Grew up with quite a few others. Judging by facebook, some of them are sane, normal, rational people who also own guns—mostly, those are the ones who are also veterans. Some of them are also trigger-happy egomaniacs who post constantly about "sheepdog" this and "civilians won't understand" that, despite having no military or more police background than volunteering a couple times a week. Those people scare me.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
Oscar Pistorius is back home today after serving one year for shooting his girlfriend to death. He's a good example of the type who buys guns because he's scared all the time and thinks the guns will keep him safe. He's also the worst sort to have one because he's going to think every little noise in the night is an intruder.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
Some of them are also trigger-happy egomaniacs who post constantly about "sheepdog" this and "civilians won't understand" that, despite having no military or more police background than volunteering a couple times a week. Those people scare me.
It seems they would come across as overbearing and boorish, a real drag to be around, gun or not.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Indeed it does. Just now, I'm trying to figure out what this bizarre statement means.
quote:
Most gun owners in the US are men. Most primary caregivers of children (and people who understand developmental stages and the reality that children frequently need to hear the same 'don't touch the stove it's hot' rule repeated multiple times etc.) are women. Most of the people who know proper gun safety and storage are men. Most of the people responsible for child-proofing the living space are women.
I'm not sure what's unclear. IME, people are sometimes stupid when it comes to kids and guns because there isn't necessarily a lot of overlap between the set of people who understand kids and the set of people who own guns and understand (adult) gun safety. There are a bunch of surveys out there indicating that a lot of women who know their husbands own guns don't know how the guns are stored or whether the NRA/pediatrician/etc. advice on safe storage (particularly in a household that includes children) are being followed.
You'd think most parents might ask about it after hearing enough stories about kids getting their hands on guns and accidentally shooting each other, but IME a lot of rural gun owners don't pay that much attention to the national news.
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
1) Ex-gang member. You read the article before casting aspersions, right?
I read multiple articles before "casting aspersions" (whatever that may mean). Most people I know who have worked with gangs don't believe there is such a thing as an "ex"-gang member. They don't tend to let you go.
quote:
You also researched the relevant gun laws in his jurisdiction and the matters of particular fact before coming to the conclusion that the gun was possessed illegally?
Of course you didn't.
No, I read multiple news articles that said it was an illegal gun purchased on the street from one of his "former" gang pals. Given the state of modern journalism, trusting anything a major news network says is probably stupid, but since I'm not planning on driving out to Chicago to investigate the issue myself, it's all I've got.
But of course you also did the relevant research in order to determine that this particular gun was legally purchased, owned, and stored and that's why strengthening gun control laws will totally work to prevent these kinds of tragedies in the future, right?
Of course not.
(Protect the narrative at all costs.)
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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
trigger-happy egomaniacs who post constantly about "sheepdog" this and "civilians won't understand" that, despite having no military or more police background
Obvious response to such comments from people who are civilians. "You won't understand either then".
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
I'm not sure what's unclear. IME, people are sometimes stupid when it comes to kids and guns because there isn't necessarily a lot of overlap between the set of people who understand kids and the set of people who own guns and understand (adult) gun safety. There are a bunch of surveys out there indicating that a lot of women who know their husbands own guns don't know how the guns are stored or whether the NRA/pediatrician/etc. advice on safe storage (particularly in a household that includes children) are being followed.
You'd think most parents might ask about it after hearing enough stories about kids getting their hands on guns and accidentally shooting each other, but IME a lot of rural gun owners don't pay that much attention to the national news.
That isn't making things much clearer to me.
Two parents in a household with children. In the majority of cases I would expect both parents to be concerned about the safety and well being of their children, although they will probably express those concerns slightly differently. You seem to be suggesting that in households with guns both parents are less concerned with the safety of their children than in households without guns - the man who owns the guns because he may not think about safe storage properly, and his partner because she doesn't bother to check up on how her husband is keeping his guns.
That seems wrong to me. I can't see how owning guns means parents are less concerned about the safety of their children. Although it would indicate to me that they are mistaken (or have been misled) by believing having a gun in the house makes their children safer from some hypothetical intruder. Being in error about the safety of guns doesn't mean that they care less about their children than people who don't own guns.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
That isn't making things much clearer to me.
Two parents in a household with children. In the majority of cases I would expect both parents to be concerned about the safety and well being of their children, although they will probably express those concerns slightly differently. You seem to be suggesting that in households with guns both parents are less concerned with the safety of their children than in households without guns - the man who owns the guns because he may not think about safe storage properly, and his partner because she doesn't bother to check up on how her husband is keeping his guns.
I don't mean to imply that in households with guns the parents are less concerned with the safety of their children than in households without guns. But there is also reality - children are impulsive and frequently unpredictable. They're curious and like to explore. They imitate the adults around them.
Guns are dangerous. There's an inherent risk/reward calculation that people need to make when it comes time to decide whether or not your household will contain guns. I grew up with guns in my house (there are times we likely would have starved without hunting). That doesn't change the danger of having guns in the house.
quote:
That seems wrong to me. I can't see how owning guns means parents are less concerned about the safety of their children. Although it would indicate to me that they are mistaken (or have been misled) by believing having a gun in the house makes their children safer from some hypothetical intruder. Being in error about the safety of guns doesn't mean that they care less about their children than people who don't own guns.
Of course being in error about the safety of guns or proper gun storage doesn't mean that the parents care less about their children than people who don't own guns. It means that they are in error - that they are wrong - about the risk/reward scenario of having a gun and storing it on the top of the fridge wrapped in pajama bottoms. It means... oh, fuck it.
Nobody's perfect, nobody knows everything. People die, and it's all just a game.
As it has always been, so shall it be. (Hated though it is).
--------------------
"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
You seem to be suggesting that in households with guns both parents are less concerned with the safety of their children than in households without guns
I don't think I'd say that - but I'd probably expect there to be a reasonable correlation between attitudes towards safety and so on between members of a couple. Which means that someone who thinks that "loaded, in a pair of pyjama pants on the fridge" is a smart way to store a handgun in a house with small children probably has a partner who isn't the smartest pair of safety scissors in the drawer either.
Conversely, the kind of gun owners who manage to keep the kids out of the bleach and the medicine cabinet probably also keep the guns locked up.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Ah, so the discussion is about competancy rather than motive. All parents are motivated to look after their children. However, some are more competant at that task than others. I think I'd agree there (there may be a small number of exceptions where parents are not motivated to look after their children).
So, if it's a question of competancy to make the risk/benefit calculation does that mean you're advocating some for of competancy test before allowing an adult in a household including children to keep a gun at home? Or, at least a safe storage requirement that if violated would result in the removal of the permission to keep the gun at home? Would that require some form of enforcement to verify the gun is stored safely?
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Ah, so the discussion is about competancy rather than motive. All parents are motivated to look after their children. However, some are more competant at that task than others. I think I'd agree there
[..]
does that mean you're advocating some for of competancy test before allowing an adult in a household including children to keep a gun at home?
Or a competency test before allowing an adult to keep a child at home?
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
This thread is apparently bizarre enough just arguing about the right to have a gun (note in my last post I carefully talked about keeping a gun at home - your half-arsed Constitution may allow everyone to own a gun, it doesn't say that therefore they're allowed to keep that gun at home) without heading into the right to have children.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
without heading into the right to have children.
I didn't say anything about the right to have children - just about keeping them at home. ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
[I can take neither credit nor blame for the US constitution - I just live here.]
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
True. Boarding schools where children can be raised as proper Americans rather than gun totin' rednecks conspiring to rise in armed rebellion against their lawful and God-given government. We Brits should have thought of that before you lot got all uppity and demanded independence.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
It is a sad and ugly way to do it, but these people are simply self-selecting themselves out of the gene pool. There is such a thing as too dumb to reproduce, and what could be more in that line than getting your own kids killed off.
I can't even imagine the circumstances which would make me personally say anything that completely fucked up. I just can't wrap my mind around that.
[ 20. October 2015, 03:59: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
True. Boarding schools where children can be raised as proper Americans rather than gun totin' rednecks conspiring to rise in armed rebellion against their lawful and God-given government. We Brits should have thought of that before you lot got all uppity and demanded independence.
Boarding schools where children can be raised as proper Americans. Now what does that make me think of? Let me think. Let me think.
Oh yeah. What the Presbyterians did to the native Alaskans.
Pass.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Um, it kinda went on a little further south and east than Alaska also, but I'll give you the ideological point anyway.
[ 20. October 2015, 05:03: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Um, it kinda went on a little further south and east than Alaska also, but I'll give you the ideological point anyway.
That's the one I have read about most extensively. For obvious reasons.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Your reasons are not obvious to me. Why would you not include the rest of America?
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
He's got the hots for Sarah Palin.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Not good.
Unless he shaves, she's likely to shoot him before she mounts him.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Your reasons are not obvious to me. Why would you not include the rest of America?
Well, in the West It was European Catholics who ran boarding schools, and on the East coast a variety of European miseionaries from various Christian churches, but in each case it was Europeans forcing a European culture on native Americans.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
Self selection through unsafe child rearing practice simply doesn't begin to offset the inability to grasp birth control methods by these same people.
quote:
Which means that someone who thinks that "loaded, in a pair of pyjama pants on the fridge" is a smart way to store a handgun in a house with small children probably has a partner who isn't the smartest pair of safety scissors in the drawer either.
Conversely, the kind of gun owners who manage to keep the kids out of the bleach and the medicine cabinet probably also keep the guns locked up.
So it would seem. This mother thought it would be okay to leave the kids home alone while she went shopping because grandpa was handy in another apartment in the building. Evidently they had been hanging out with him in his apartment until his dog had an accident, so he sent these two tiny kids down to their apartment to get cleaning supplies -- evidently within easy access. The littlest one had supplied himself with macaroni and cheese and was feeding himself at the table when the accident happened. None of this says good parenting to me and covers three adults in the same family.
Mom is currently defending her husband on their "go fund me" website and seems proud of him for keeping a gun to protect the family.
The Idiocracy grows daily.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
The Idiocracy grows daily.
The YouTube channel Cracked has a vid that makes a case for Idiocracy being a utopia compared to what exists now. It is humour and it is not a treatise, but they do make a solid point: problems do not rise up from trailer parks and council estates, but flow down enclaves and country estates.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
Heh! Good video, with some sneaky truth. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
So, if it's a question of competancy to make the risk/benefit calculation does that mean you're advocating some for of competancy test before allowing an adult in a household including children to keep a gun at home?
I live in a state where you have to pass a gun safety class in order to purchase a regulated gun. I don't have an inherent problem with such requirements.
Of course, that didn't stop 270 people in my city from being murdered so far this year with mostly unregulated guns. But it made the process of trying to buy a legal gun more expensive and time consuming, which some suspect was the point.
quote:
Or, at least a safe storage requirement that if violated would result in the removal of the permission to keep the gun at home?
There are states that have laws regulating such things. The problem is enforcement.
quote:
Would that require some form of enforcement to verify the gun is stored safely?
And how exactly do you propose to do such a thing?
Even if you could get Americans to agree to a licensing and storage requirement for guns, I don't think you'll find many who will agree that exercising their Second Amendment rights forfeits their Fourth Amendment rights.
Even if you somehow got people to agree that the safety of their children requires them to allow a government agent to periodically check that they are storing their guns properly (not going to happen, but let's pretend), enforcement would necessarily be limited to households that own guns that the government knows about. Which wouldn't have stopped this particular shooting, as the gun was illegal.
Please explain how this magical law works, and how you would go about enforcing it (without starting a civil war)? Please bear in mind that you are talking about a country where things like this happen and the police currently seem determined to prove that they don't discriminate against black and brown people by also killing and violating the rights of white people.
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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
There's an hierarchy here. If you don't listen to God, nor common sense, then Darwin gets you. He's at the bottom.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
So, if it's a question of competancy to make the risk/benefit calculation does that mean you're advocating some for of competancy test before allowing an adult in a household including children to keep a gun at home?
I live in a state where you have to pass a gun safety class in order to purchase a regulated gun. I don't have an inherent problem with such requirements.
Of course, that didn't stop 270 people in my city from being murdered so far this year with mostly unregulated guns. But it made the process of trying to buy a legal gun more expensive and time consuming, which some suspect was the point.
I would have said the point was to reduce the number of deaths and injuries caused by inappropriate use of licensed firearms. Reducing the number of licensed firearms by increasing the expense (both in time and money) to obtain the necessary licenses would also have that effect - every gun removed is one less that can be used inappropriately.
The other part of your comment is the number of illegally held firearms. That number will never be reduced while it is easy, and relatively inexpensive, to obtain guns legally. Increase the requirements to provide id and undergo background checks etc and it will be harder for criminals to obtain guns fraudulently from retailers. Make sure guns are locked away, and it will be harder for criminals to steal them from their legal owners.
quote:
quote:
Would that require some form of enforcement to verify the gun is stored safely?
And how exactly do you propose to do such a thing?
A first step would be that whenever someone goes into a hunting shop to buy a rifle they not only produce their license to have a gun with suitable id, but they also fill in the application to register that particular gun and part of that includes providing proof that they have a suitable storage facility (receipt of purchase, photographs of the cabinets in place), and in signing the application to register that gun sign that they agree to periodic verification that the gun is kept where they say they'll keep it. Which is, more or less, how the system works in the UK. In the UK there is also a requirement to report the theft of a registered gun - and, that can result in the loss of a license if it was deemed that the storage cupboard was inadequate to prevent the theft (which, did happen in the case of the husband of a friend when they had a break in where the thieves brought their own power tools to open the case).
I'm not sure of the relevance of the Fourth Amendment. An inspection of the storage of guns is not a search, just a walk up to the cabinet, check it's locked and the gun is inside, tick a box to say that's been done and go out again. I guess there could be a search and seizure if the gun isn't where it's supposed to be, but that's not exactly unreasonable and all it requires is for the inspector to phone a court and state that the gun isn't where it should be and ask for a warrant to search the property for that gun and to confiscate it when found. If you don't want people wandering through the house, keep the gun locked in the garage.
Do people use the Fourth Amendment to prevent employees of utility companies access to read the electricity meter?
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Not good.
Unless he shaves, she's likely to shoot him before she mounts him.
Kind of a human inverted-order preying mantis.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Do people use the Fourth Amendment to prevent employees of utility companies access to read the electricity meter? [/QB]
Heck, if that is the problem. Get them to bring the gun to a suitably safe place once a year.* Saves money too.
Gun S252-242, yep. Well done you've not sold it to someone** and then left people wondering how the cunning devils managed to got an illegal firearm. By the way do YOU keep it safely at home?
It would at least have some reminders for the trying to be good parents. And the willfully bad parents can't fool themselves after the fact. So would probably have a non too small effect. And also an effect on the illegal guns (especially if you did the same with stores).
*Any issues that can't be easily overcome, probably form an argument for stronger gun control.
**or at least if you have it's got a fairly traceable history.
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
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saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
A first step would be that whenever someone goes into a hunting shop to buy a rifle they not only produce their license to have a gun with suitable id, but they also fill in the application to register that particular gun and part of that includes providing proof that they have a suitable storage facility (receipt of purchase, photographs of the cabinets in place), and in signing the application to register that gun sign that they agree to periodic verification that the gun is kept where they say they'll keep it. Which is, more or less, how the system works in the UK. In the UK there is also a requirement to report the theft of a registered gun - and, that can result in the loss of a license if it was deemed that the storage cupboard was inadequate to prevent the theft (which, did happen in the case of the husband of a friend when they had a break in where the thieves brought their own power tools to open the case).
Sounds like San Francisco. Fails the don't-start-a-civil-war requirement. Most Americans would move to San Francisco if they wanted to be micromanaged like that. I don't even know where to start...
The feds have messed around with the ID requirements so much that it's no longer possible for some people in some states to get a qualifying government ID. Requiring government IDs for guns but not voting will never fly. Mandating that registered gun owners report the theft of their guns (which most do anyway in case it is later used in a crime) only works if the police take reports. Where is this data stored? How is it shared between states? How are you handling the reality that most states have multiple people with the same name, and that this problem explodes when you start trying to compile data from multiple states? Do you have any idea how big the US is or how many people it contains?
Believing that the US government could successfully track all firearm purchases and (if they somehow managed that) that certain people wouldn't abuse the knowledge requires a leap of faith that most Americans aren't willing to make.
People will never agree to a plan that makes their second amendment right to bear arms contingent on periodic visits by a governmental agent. Maybe 'never' is a bit much. But we'd have to have a government that showed it respected its citizens constitutional rights. We haven't had one of those in a long time.
Of course, your proposal was somewhat vague. The periodic visits could be by the gun sellers, no? In which case expect that all sellers who actually conduct such visits driven out of business by those who don't.
quote:
I'm not sure of the relevance of the Fourth Amendment. An inspection of the storage of guns is not a search, just a walk up to the cabinet, check it's locked and the gun is inside, tick a box to say that's been done and go out again.
Never talk to cops. Never allow a government employee in your home. Accepting any sort of federal aid or public assistance is likely to be met with a demand for sex or blood.
This is basic stuff.
I understand how certain people justify obviously unreasonable searches (but the dog gave me permission! etc). But I'm less clear on how a reasonable person can believe that allowing a government worker into your home in order to check on how your guns are stored isn't inherently unreasonable.
quote:
I guess there could be a search and seizure if the gun isn't where it's supposed to be, but that's not exactly unreasonable and all it requires is for the inspector to phone a court and state that the gun isn't where it should be and ask for a warrant to search the property for that gun and to confiscate it when found. If you don't want people wandering through the house, keep the gun locked in the garage.
Not every gun owner has a garage, and... yeah. It's not unreasonable for the government to search your property and confiscate a gun "if the gun isn't where it should be"?
Apparently we live on different planets.
quote:
Do people use the Fourth Amendment to prevent employees of utility companies access to read the electricity meter?
Employees of the utility companies are not government employees. At most they can shut your electricity or water off. They don't get to deprive you of life, liberty, and/or property on a whim, without consequences, the way government employees can. Also, they don't come inside your home. Also, unlike with the government, your relationship with a particular utility company is voluntary. If its employees misbehave you can terminate your relationship.
Yeah, there's no analogy there.
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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
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