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Source: (consider it) Thread: Fucking Guns
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
Apparently we live on different planets.

Agreed, mine's called Earth. What's the name of your planet?

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
A first step would be that whenever someone goes into a hunting shop to buy a rifle they not only produce their license to have a gun with suitable id, but they also fill in the application to register that particular gun and part of that includes providing proof that they have a suitable storage facility (receipt of purchase, photographs of the cabinets in place), and in signing the application to register that gun sign that they agree to periodic verification that the gun is kept where they say they'll keep it. Which is, more or less, how the system works in the UK. In the UK there is also a requirement to report the theft of a registered gun - and, that can result in the loss of a license if it was deemed that the storage cupboard was inadequate to prevent the theft (which, did happen in the case of the husband of a friend when they had a break in where the thieves brought their own power tools to open the case).

Sounds like San Francisco. Fails the don't-start-a-civil-war requirement. Most Americans would move to San Francisco if they wanted to be micromanaged like that. I don't even know where to start...


Nothing to do with the gun control laws, babe, that's probably a selling point to live here. Check the apartment rental rates.

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
Sounds like San Francisco.

Two questions immediately jump out from the article. The first is the fairly obvious one of jurisdiction - SF passes a law, the authorities above the city that can judge whether they are able to pass that law should (logically) be the State of California and then the Federal government. What gives other states a say in the question (unless, of course, the Federal government says "we need a nationwide law on this issue")?

The second was from the end of the article. If someone is in such a state that they are unable to open a lock or remember a combination, in what sense are they in a reasonable state to fire a gun? If someone is (at a given time) incompetant to put a key in a padlock, then surely they are (at that time) incompetant to handle a lethal weapon.

quote:
The feds have messed around with the ID requirements so much that it's no longer possible for some people in some states to get a qualifying government ID. Requiring government IDs for guns but not voting will never fly.
I quite agree. Though whether it's the feds or the state governments responsible for the disgraceful fiasco that has developed over voter ID is a (largely irrelevant to this discussion) point for debate. I said way back near the beginning of this thread that there are a range of issues in the US that a directly or indirectly related to the appalling death toll from guns, that included social and racial inequalities. The voter ID issues seem to largely fall into the category of social and racial - when states start to close offices where people can get driving licenses or other recognised ID in poor, black areas but not affluent, largely white areas then race and social status certainly appears to be involved.

Availability of ID is an issue in being able to vote. It's an issue in any (potential) gun registration scheme. These are not separate issues. And certainly if people are denied a chance to vote because someone is preventing them from getting ID that needs to be sorted out pronto, that is a denial of a fundamental right in a democracy. Make it possible for people to get ID and register to vote through the local post office. Set up mobile offices that visit each neighbour frequently (and, make that more frequent as election time approaches) where people can get their ID and register to vote. Sort out a big problem, and coincidentally solve the less serious one of enabling people to register their guns.

quote:
Mandating that registered gun owners report the theft of their guns (which most do anyway in case it is later used in a crime) only works if the police take reports. Where is this data stored? How is it shared between states? How are you handling the reality that most states have multiple people with the same name, and that this problem explodes when you start trying to compile data from multiple states? Do you have any idea how big the US is or how many people it contains?
Police record keeping, sharing relevant information between agencies within a state and between states and the federal government etc are all issues that should be improved regardless of any gun control issues. If the US law enforcement systems are in such a level of disarray that reported crimes do not get entered into the police records, important data can't be shared between states, etc then something is seriously wrong there anyway.

How big is the US? Not much different from Europe, and in most of Europe there doesn't appear to be this inability to enter reports of crimes into the computer, nor for neighbouring forces to work together when appropriate, even forces in different nations with different languages.

quote:
People will never agree to a plan that makes their second amendment right to bear arms contingent on periodic visits by a governmental agent. Maybe 'never' is a bit much. But we'd have to have a government that showed it respected its citizens constitutional rights. We haven't had one of those in a long time.
So, get people together and form soem well organised militia if you're so set on upholding the Second Amendment. The Amendment itself makes the bearing of arms contingent on that.

quote:
Of course, your proposal was somewhat vague. The periodic visits could be by the gun sellers, no? In which case expect that all sellers who actually conduct such visits driven out of business by those who don't.

Yes, deliberately vague. I'm not an American. At the end of the day it's going to be up to US citizens to decide what they want - gun control, if so in what form, or continued mass shootings, toddlers accidentally killing themselves or others, and easy access to guns by criminals.

Why shouldn't gun retailers be required to take all reasonable steps to prevent the guns and ammo they sell fall into the hands of criminals or children? If they fail to do that, revoke their license to sell guns. Then all retailers will conduct the necessary inspections if they want to stay in business, and the playing field will be level.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Two questions immediately jump out from the article. The first is the fairly obvious one of jurisdiction - SF passes a law, the authorities above the city that can judge whether they are able to pass that law should (logically) be the State of California and then the Federal government.

Not quite. The question of whether SF is able to pass a law is one of law, and so is judged by the courts, not any "superior" legislature.

If the state preempts municipalities in a particular sphere (like, for example, gun control), then the state would need to take action in the state court system in order to prevent a city from having such a law on its books. In this case, the supreme court of the state of California would be the highest authority - I don't know whether such a case would be eligible for appeal to the US supreme court. If the state constitution was violated by the city law, then the state courts would again be the venue for dispute.

If the federal government preempts states and localities, it will take action in the federal court system. Similarly, action alleging violation of the US constitution would arise in the federal court system, where the US supreme court is the ultimate authority.


In this case, the 26 states are filing amicus briefs - acting as a "friend of the court" and giving their legal opinions on a case before the court.

The case is a number of individual Californians, the NRA and the San Fransisco Veteran Police Officer's Association taking action in the US Supreme Court, alleging that San Francisco's law violates the Second Amendment.

The 26 other states aren't parties to the case directly, but have an interest in the question of how the US constitution touches on the regulation of safe gun storage, and so have grounds to file a brief as amicus curiae (friends of the court).

Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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We have 52 states now?

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Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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I thought it was noted a few pages back that Canada had joined the US.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
I thought it was noted a few pages back that Canada had joined the US.

Okay, so that's 51. What's 52?

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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Quebec, of course. Finally got to exert some independence.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
We have 52 states now?

Same 26. Clumsy English. Consider me thwacked. [Hot and Hormonal]
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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Quebec, of course. Finally got to exert some independence.

Don't forget that No Prophet, etc's butt sucked up Montana. We're still down one.

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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Can we just add a State of Confusion?

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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I think Oregon and California are competing for that title.

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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From the suit against California's proposals to keep handguns locked up when in the house.
quote:
“It is common to fumble with keys while trying to hurriedly unlock a door, to forget a series of numbers when under pressure, or to struggle with hand-eye coordination when subjected to stressors.”
Mousethief Technologies had better come up with a better irony meter soon...

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Forward the New Republic

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Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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Here's one that fits both our traffic gits and gun threads.

A father with two kids in the vehicle and another man get involved in a road rage battle that includes cussing and cutting each other off until one of them takes out his gun and shoots. Killing the four year-old in the back seat. Sympathy is pouring out for the family -- as it should -- but the fact remains that if the father had just let it go his daughter would still be alive.

The murderer was probably keeping that gun in his glove box "for protection."

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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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See the thing here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34602621 is the far lower number of deaths nad injuries - than you'd get with the same guy carrying a firearm.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881

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Another school shooting. Unfortunately for them, the gun nuts won't be able to blame this on "mental health". And there aren't enough bodies to make it a mass shooting. But when someone has a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Like this guy.

Fucking guns. And fuck all the idiots who buy guns thinking this can't happen to them because only crazies and "bad guys" shoot people.

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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"

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Dee.
Ship's Theological Acrobat
# 5681

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Who fucking does this? and what kind of society continues to allow this level of weaponry to be available so easily.

Another tragedy, More innocents slaughtered, more hand wringing and more NRA, right wing, red neck morns justifying their constitutional right to own weapons that have no use but to kill a lot of human beings horribly.

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Jesus - nice bloke, bit religious

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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894

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But there's no way to prevent this.

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076

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quote:
Originally posted by Dee.:
Who fucking does this? and what kind of society continues to allow this level of weaponry to be available so easily.

The kind of society that doesn't pay attention to most shootings that injure at least four people.

--------------------
A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.


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Dee.
Ship's Theological Acrobat
# 5681

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Yeah Right...

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Jesus - nice bloke, bit religious

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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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Guessing from the target this will turn out to be an anti Obama care type thing.

--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

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Once is tragedy, 994 in 1004 days is ... insane.

America the farcical.

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Love wins

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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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Amont other things, the San Bernadino shooting is causing people to denounce prayer.
Without works, the words are empty.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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saysay

Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645

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Yeah, because that'll improve the rhetorical atmosphere of the country.

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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."

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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Guessing from the target this will turn out to be an anti Obama care type thing.

Good thing guesses are free, cause you're gonna need at least one more...

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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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Whats your theory ?

--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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One male, one female, tactical gear and semi-auto rifles?

Oh, I don't know....

Not Obamacare though.

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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881

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What's your theory, then?

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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"

Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
What's your theory, then?

My latest theory is that you can't read.

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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
What's your theory, then?

My latest theory is that you can't read.
This is such a helpful contribution to the conversation. Oh wait, it's romanlion. What was I thinking, expecting helpful contributions? My bad. Irrationality is unlikely to produce helpful contributions, and romanlion is irrational on this subject.

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
What's your theory, then?

My latest theory is that you can't read.
This is such a helpful contribution to the conversation. Oh wait, it's romanlion. What was I thinking, expecting helpful contributions? My bad. Irrationality is unlikely to produce helpful contributions, and romanlion is irrational on this subject.
This is Hell, asshole. Go fuck yourself.

Give me the rational argument for an "Obamacare" connection to what happened today, shit-for-brains.

Until then, if you want helpful contributions, pick another fucking board you fat sack of shit.

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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
What's your theory, then?

My latest theory is that you can't read.
This is such a helpful contribution to the conversation. Oh wait, it's romanlion. What was I thinking, expecting helpful contributions? My bad. Irrationality is unlikely to produce helpful contributions, and romanlion is irrational on this subject.
This is Hell, asshole. Go fuck yourself.

Give me the rational argument for an "Obamacare" connection to what happened today, shit-for-brains.

Until then, if you want helpful contributions, pick another fucking board you fat sack of shit.

Thank you for the proof. It could have taken me seconds to come up with proof of your irrationality, but you delivered it with a bow.

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
One male, one female, tactical gear and semi-auto rifles?

Oh, I don't know....

Not Obamacare though.

So, why was that particular event targetted? Why attack a public health social event?

Either the target was picked at random or it was picked because that was part of the statement the terrorists wished to make. If it was to make a statement, then the obvious conclusion is that it relates to public health and health care provision.

--------------------
Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
So, why was that particular event targetted? Why attack a public health social event?

I believe I read somewhere that one of the attackers had been a guest at the party that was attacked. So without knowing anything more, there's scope for a more personal element in the motive.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
So, why was that particular event targetted? Why attack a public health social event?

I believe I read somewhere that one of the attackers had been a guest at the party that was attacked. So without knowing anything more, there's scope for a more personal element in the motive.
Bingo. The building is said to include a conference/function centre. Which means people from elsewhere can hire said centre.

Which quite possibly means we're looking at a demented version of "office Christmas party gone wrong", in a culture that continues to subtly (and sometimes not so subtly) push the notion that it is right and proper to resolve your personal conflicts with violence.

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
So, why was that particular event targetted? Why attack a public health social event?

I believe I read somewhere that one of the attackers had been a guest at the party that was attacked. So without knowing anything more, there's scope for a more personal element in the motive.
That had not been in any of the reports I'd seen this morning. But, I'm busy and haven't had the time to read everything.

As orfeo said, it could be a Christmas party gone wrong. We've probably all experienced a party when there's been a bit too much drunk, someone says something stupid and gets punched for it, and then goes home to nurse their wounds and hurt pride. Usually things have calmed down and cleared up not long after the hang-over has faded. But, most of us don't live in places where someone could go home, get dressed up in combat gear and grab a couple of assault rifles to return to the party to settle the grievance once and for all.

--------------------
Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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The room was hired out for a party for San Bernardino County health workers. It seems that someone at the party left and came back with a second person and they shot the place up. But officials are also saying they don't know for a fact that the person who left was one of the people who did the shooting. They're not even clear right now about whether it was two people or three. There is one named suspect: Syed Farook - a person with that name works for the SB Health Dept as an environmental health specialist. The LA chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations has felt the need to hold a press conference, though I can't find anything on it beyond a brief mention in the LA Times about Farook's brother-in-law being at the press conference, saying he didn't know why Farook would have done such a thing. (Anyone interested in actual facts, as opposed to speculation, can read the LA Times.)

So this could be international terrorism, domestic terrorism, or a disgruntled worker. Or something else.

Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
(Anyone interested in actual facts, as opposed to speculation, can read the LA Times.)

Or check out the local paper, the San Bernardino Sun.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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Thanks for the link, Ruth. I'd avoided most of the news coverage*, but I skimmed through the article.

Since one of the suspects worked with the people at the party, it may well be that something had built up over the years. But the amount of weapons may mean it's a lot more complicated.

Maybe these were people who had a lot of weapons on hand, and something was said/done at the party, and the guy went home and armed up, and brought people with him.

*Not because I don't care; but because I do, and it's more than I can handle, and I can't fix it, and I'm having a bad day.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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Interesting article. A male female shooter pair is extremely unusual. I wonder if they left their baby with anyone before the attack.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Niteowl

Hopeless Insomniac
# 15841

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Just finished watching the local news. Apparently the suspects were husband and wife, who left their baby daughter with grandparents while they went to do their dirty work. I'll never understand people... Relatives are shocked and never saw this coming.

I used to work about a block from the shootout with the suspects in their SUV and about a half mile from the Inland Regional Center.

Another fourteen people senselessly killed while the politicians sit on their hands.

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"love all, trust few, do wrong to no one"
Wm. Shakespeare

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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And, according to the update on the LA Times article, at least some of the guns were legally owned. Which doesn't seem to be much of a surprise.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Oh yeah, and most/all of his gun related crap will turn out to have been legally owned.

Deja vu

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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When thousands of people the FBI considers to be potential terrorists or supporters of terrorists can legally buy guns in the US, then it shouldn't be a surprise when some of those guns get used by terrorists. I think even Republicans and the NRA should be able to see that ... though maybe not.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
When thousands of people the FBI considers to be potential terrorists or supporters of terrorists can legally buy guns in the US, then it shouldn't be a surprise when some of those guns get used by terrorists. I think even Republicans and the NRA should be able to see that ... though maybe not.

Should be a fairly simple fix to prevent that from happening. Certainly if they can't board a plane they shouldn't be able to buy a firearm. Ultimately wouldn't make a difference, but an easy cross-check to make.

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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
When thousands of people the FBI considers to be potential terrorists or supporters of terrorists can legally buy guns in the US, then it shouldn't be a surprise when some of those guns get used by terrorists. I think even Republicans and the NRA should be able to see that ... though maybe not.

Should be a fairly simple fix to prevent that from happening. Certainly if they can't board a plane they shouldn't be able to buy a firearm. Ultimately wouldn't make a difference, but an easy cross-check to make.
You could turn it round and enhance it a bit. If someone has ever bought or owned a firearm, block them from air travel.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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At least they somehow had the sense/compassion to leave their daughter with someone, rather than carting her along or leaving her alone.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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SS--

That would

a) cut way down on air travel, and cost the airlines a lot of money;

b) created a booming industry in easily-available fake IDs;

and

c) quite possibly spur a whole lot of open carry folks to flood airports.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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Re legally-available guns:

Limiting them might prevent household shootings and accidents. But lots of people, criminals and not, would find other ways to get guns--second-hand, gun shows, probably online, and whatever ways criminals currently get illegal weapons.

And then there's DIY, like 3D printers.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
SS--

That would

a) cut way down on air travel, and cost the airlines a lot of money;

b) created a booming industry in easily-available fake IDs;

and

c) quite possibly spur a whole lot of open carry folks to flood airports.

All good stuff GK but:

i) This is Hell

ii) I was (as usual) pissed off with romanlion therefore

iii) I was running at his level of argument.

Then again, I detest air travel and will do anything to discourage it.

--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged



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