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Source: (consider it) Thread: Fucking Guns
lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
It's a white person 49% of the time, a black person 24% of the time, other races the rest of the time.

Just for balance, it is helpful to note that white people make up 77% of the population and black people less than 9%.
I haven't looked up the class statistics, but I'd bet the greatest percentage of white people shot were on the poorer end of the spectrum.

quote:

This poor woman is getting lots of press because she's pretty and Australian. You're average police shooting victim is just an ordinary white person, and as such, not newsworthy at all.

Marginalised people, whether by race, class or mental health, don't count as much as real people. And pretty makes things more tragic.

quote:

The police may or may not be bullies, but in these shootings they almost always seem to be acting out of cowardice. She was walking up to the window of the police car and he was afraid.

Two rookies. That might make an amusing film, but what kind of idiots think this makes a good situation in real life?

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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simontoad
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# 18096

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I reckon if I was a police officer in the USA, I would have every right to be frightened out of my wits every time I left the station. I would have good reason to assume that every person I encounter is carrying a gun and is prepared to shoot me.

I don't believe that police shootings are primarily about individual police officers making bad judgement calls or not complying with procedure. I think that there are systemic problems and problems with the policing environment in the United States that need to be addressed if shootings are to be significantly reduced in that country.

Individual police officers must nevertheless face criminal action if it is warranted in their case. The systemic issues can be raised by their lawyers in mitigation of the crime.

For the purposes of disclosure of bias, I note that in The Hunger Games terms, I would come from zone one or two - the zone from which the security forces are drawn.

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
I reckon if I was a police officer in the USA, I would have every right to be frightened out of my wits every time I left the station. I would have good reason to assume that every person I encounter is carrying a gun and is prepared to shoot me.

I don't believe that police shootings are primarily about individual police officers making bad judgement calls or not complying with procedure. I think that there are systemic problems and problems with the policing environment in the United States that need to be addressed if shootings are to be significantly reduced in that country.

Individual police officers must nevertheless face criminal action if it is warranted in their case. The systemic issues can be raised by their lawyers in mitigation of the crime.

For the purposes of disclosure of bias, I note that in The Hunger Games terms, I would come from zone one or two - the zone from which the security forces are drawn.

That post is full of the skewed shite that is part of the problem in America. Yes, guns are an issue, but not quite like commonly portrayed. The vast majority of police in America will never fire their weapons other than at a paper target. The reason being is that the average American is not a gun-toting lunatic. The reason there are problematic shootings is that American police* are poorly trained and treat encounters as adversarial. They are not trained to de-escalate. Instead their tactics and attitude tend towards aggression if confronted.
I'm not familiar with the Aussie training, but in the U.K., officers receive more complete training even if they do not carry weapons. Not saying British police are perfect, mind.

*The level varies from city to city as the national standards are very loose.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Jane R
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lilbuddha:
quote:
I'm not familiar with the Aussie training, but in the U.K., officers receive more complete training even if they do not carry weapons. Not saying British police are perfect, mind.
Oh, they're certainly not perfect. However, they are overseen by an independent body (the IPCC ) which deals with serious complaints. In a case like this, the shooting would be investigated by people with no connection to the police officers involved. I don't think you have anything comparable in the USA, do you? Not at federal level, anyway.
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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
lilbuddha:
quote:
I'm not familiar with the Aussie training, but in the U.K., officers receive more complete training even if they do not carry weapons. Not saying British police are perfect, mind.
Oh, they're certainly not perfect. However, they are overseen by an independent body (the IPCC ) which deals with serious complaints. In a case like this, the shooting would be investigated by people with no connection to the police officers involved. I don't think you have anything comparable in the USA, do you? Not at federal level, anyway.
The US federal regulation for police are ludicrously weak. This is a result of state v federal control.¹ It further breaks down at the level of municipality. Cities and towns are most responsible for their own training and guidance.
As I understand it,² the agency to which the officer belongs investigates his/her conduct. The state might become involved as necessary.
The federal government only if federal laws are thought to have been violated.

¹I am less familiar with state level controls, but given how varied it is amongst municipalities, I must conclude it is either weak or weakly applied.
²From observing high-profile cases

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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simontoad
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wow. all those things look like systemic problems to me...

--------------------
The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
wow. all those things look like systemic problems to me...

Dude. Your post says the problems are the environment in which police work instead of the police themselves. Oh, sure, you mention systemic problems, but only after fairly much saying every American is a police hating gunslinger.
They aren't. I've been there, have you?

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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simontoad
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Are you asking whether I've been to America?

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
Are you asking whether I've been to America?

That is what I was asking. America has cultural issues, I think you are painting them with an overly broad brush.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Jane R
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Also, America is not the same everywhere. The people on the East and West coasts tend to be more liberal and outward-looking than the people in the middle; perhaps because they have more contact with people from other countries and cultures. We have the same kind of thing on a smaller scale in the UK; the regions with the highest numbers of voters opposed to immigration are the ones that have the fewest immigrants.
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mark_in_manchester

not waving, but...
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quote:
Not saying British police are perfect, mind.
What do you mean? The British police are the best in the world...

--------------------
"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

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RuthW

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
Are you asking whether I've been to America?

That is what I was asking. America has cultural issues, I think you are painting them with an overly broad brush.
We're used to it. Not happy about it, but used to it.
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jbohn
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
The US federal regulation for police are ludicrously weak. This is a result of state v federal control.¹ It further breaks down at the level of municipality. Cities and towns are most responsible for their own training and guidance.
As I understand it,² the agency to which the officer belongs investigates his/her conduct. The state might become involved as necessary.
The federal government only if federal laws are thought to have been violated.

¹I am less familiar with state level controls, but given how varied it is amongst municipalities, I must conclude it is either weak or weakly applied.
²From observing high-profile cases

In Minnesota (where my hometown cops shoot not only pajama-clad Australians, but also therapy dogs), licensing of police is done at the state level by the Peace Officer Standards and Training Board; they set the minimum requirements for training (degree in Criminal Justice or equivalent, hours of continuing education, etc.). The individual agencies (in this case, Minneapolis PD) are in charge of training new recruits and getting them ready to be on patrol.

Locally, one of the things being discussed is how two cops with less than 2 years' experience ended up working together on an overnight shift (widely agreed to be the most dangerous shift). The police chief hasn't addressed that, but she has said the shooting was unnecessary.

[ 21. July 2017, 14:05: Message edited by: jbohn ]

--------------------
We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard

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Marvin the Martian

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quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
the regions with the highest numbers of voters opposed to immigration are the ones that have the fewest immigrants.

Isn't that just another way of saying that immigrants are unlikely to be opposed to immigration?

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Soror Magna
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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
the regions with the highest numbers of voters opposed to immigration are the ones that have the fewest immigrants.

Isn't that just another way of saying that immigrants are unlikely to be opposed to immigration?
Voters. Not all immigrants are voters e.g. immigrant minors are counted as immigrants, but they don't vote.

--------------------
"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Also, America is not the same everywhere. The people on the East and West coasts tend to be more liberal and outward-looking than the people in the middle; perhaps because they have more contact with people from other countries and cultures. We have the same kind of thing on a smaller scale in the UK; the regions with the highest numbers of voters opposed to immigration are the ones that have the fewest immigrants.

It is a population density thing. More densely populated regions are both more likely to have immigrants and more regular contact with immigrants.
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
the regions with the highest numbers of voters opposed to immigration are the ones that have the fewest immigrants.

Isn't that just another way of saying that immigrants are unlikely to be opposed to immigration?
No, actually, it isn't. Immigrants are naturally going to support further immigration.¹ But white people² in high density areas are also more likely to be supportive of immigration.

¹ At least of their "own"

²
ᵃ Brown people are perpetual immigrants, no matter how many generations deep they are in. (UK: brown; US: Hispanic, Asian)

ᵇ 1st and second generation immigrants white, not included. After that, they are just regular white people. (UK,US)

[ 21. July 2017, 15:39: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Leorning Cniht
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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Isn't that just another way of saying that immigrants are unlikely to be opposed to immigration?

I've met plenty of immigrants who are quite strongly opposed to illegal immigration - basically feeling that they've done everything by the book and taken a lot of effort, time, and money to jump through the required hoops, and they don't see why other people should be able to jump the queue.

But I think what it's really saying is that blanket opposition to group X (immigrants, black people, white people, whoever) generally only develops in communities that are isolated from that group of people.

If you live and work alongside group X people, you are far more likely to see them as people, with the wide variation in characteristics that groups of people have.

If you don't interact much with group X people, it's easier to buy in to a stereotype.

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Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
It's a white person 49% of the time, a black person 24% of the time, other races the rest of the time.

Just for balance, it is helpful to note that white people make up 77% of the population and black people less than 9%.


Percentages of population (and it's 13% black in most stats) are not really pertinent when someone from another country seems surprised that a white person has been shot by an American policeman. The fact remains, for every black person shot by police three non-blacks are shot by police.

[ 21. July 2017, 18:43: Message edited by: Twilight ]

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Leorning Cniht
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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:

Percentages of population (and it's 13% black in most stats) are not really pertinent when someone from another country seems surprised that a white person has been shot by an American policeman. The fact remains, for every black person shot by police three non-blacks are shot by police.

It is important that people understand that the statements "more white people than black people are shot by police" and "the police preferentially shoot black people" are both true, and are not in any sense contradictory (because black people form a minority of the population).
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Twilight

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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
[QUOTE]It is important that people understand that the statements "more white people than black people are shot by police" and "the police preferentially shoot black people" are both true, and are not in any sense contradictory (because black people form a minority of the population).

It's just so much more complicated than just "a larger percentage of the black population are killed by police" that I didn't want to go into all that and just wanted people to know that a cop killing a white in America is not a rare thing.

Cops don't just always cruise the country looking for trouble. They tend to spend most of their time answering 911 calls. Far more of those calls come from black neighborhoods than white ones. There is simply more crime going on in the inner city and through the tragedy of African American history, more of them live in poverty and where there's poverty there's crime. For example blacks are 8 times more likely to commit murder than whites. Not every black killed by police is Travon Martin, many are engaged in serious crime when the police arrive.

web page

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lilBuddha
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sigh
Black people in America* are more likely to be hassled by the police than white people. The fact is, the higher percentage of melanin, the higher the chance you will be accosted, arrested, shot, imprisoned and receive a longer prison sentence.
This doesn't mean white people are completely safe. Poverty will increase all that for white people. However, not to as severe a degree as for brown and black people.
Most police do not look for trouble. But poor training means they see it where it doesn't exist and cause it where they needn't.


*The UK has its own race problems; but the lesser number of armed officers and the higher degree of training, especially in descalation, lowers the death rate.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Lamb Chopped
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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Isn't that just another way of saying that immigrants are unlikely to be opposed to immigration?

I've met plenty of immigrants who are quite strongly opposed to illegal immigration - basically feeling that they've done everything by the book and taken a lot of effort, time, and money to jump through the required hoops, and they don't see why other people should be able to jump the queue.

But I think what it's really saying is that blanket opposition to group X (immigrants, black people, white people, whoever) generally only develops in communities that are isolated from that group of people.

If you live and work alongside group X people, you are far more likely to see them as people, with the wide variation in characteristics that groups of people have.

If you don't interact much with group X people, it's easier to buy in to a stereotype.

Mr. Lamb feels rather strongly about illegal immigration, though his soft heart means he more or less de facto reverses himself whenever he is faced with individuals. Consistency is not his long suit.

As for proximity creating sympathy, I'm going to say that that may be true in cases where there is no language barrier, though I'm not sure of that. But we've seen an increase in anti-black sentiment among Vietnamese immigrants, and IMHO it is directly tied to the fact that they live in exactly the same neighborhoods (that is, high crime slums) and so whenever a Vietnamese person is victimized, the perpetrator is 99% of the time black. That's because it's your neighbors who beat up on you, not because melanin has some evil effect--but a person hospitalized with a broken skull may not be thinking all that clearly.

And to make matters worse, the majority of the doctors, nurses, teachers and social workers who actively benefit the Vietnamese happen to be white--a function of horrible inner city schools and white flight, which leads to the local professions being dominated by white people, many of them probably from the suburbs.

Can you see how easy it is for a Vietnamese immigrant who speaks little English to decide that black = bad and dangerous, white = helpers?

This totally sucks and I've done what I can to reverse the dynamic, but it doesn't help that I'm mostly white too.

--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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Leorning Cniht
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quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
IMHO it is directly tied to the fact that they live in exactly the same neighborhoods (that is, high crime slums) and so whenever a Vietnamese person is victimized, the perpetrator is 99% of the time black. That's because it's your neighbors who beat up on you, not because melanin has some evil effect--but a person hospitalized with a broken skull may not be thinking all that clearly.

Yeah, but if I understand you right, the Vietnamese and black communities don't really interact. They're just in the same place. The lack of interaction means that you don't get all the normal positive day-to-day interactions that you get within communities, but you do get the negative "my sister was robbed by a black man" interactions.

You need actual interaction rather than mere proximity to counter this.

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Lamb Chopped
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That's what i said (language barrier).

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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simontoad
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I went to a High School in Northern California for a year back in the 1980's. A community of Vietnamese refugees settled in my town some time before I stayed there. There was allot of trouble between some of the Black kids and some of the Vietnamese kids. I remember it because there was some bullying and stuff on the school bus, and one big fight one morning at the bus stop. The Vietnamese kids took on all comers that day, and there was no more bullying of them for the rest of my stay there. So what lambchopped said really resonated with me.

Of course the Black kids weren't the only ones being racist at my school, but I didn't see (or don't remember) any overt stuff, just the usual High School ostracism. I had quite a few mates from the sub-continent at that High School. We bonded over cricket, but one guy who really impressed me was one of the refugees. He was older, probably because his education was delayed in the refugee camps, and I remember my thirst for details about his life that I knew he was reluctant to give.

Other than my year at High School, I've been to America 5 or 6 times, always centred around my Host Family, who now live in Sutter Creek, CA. I was there last September, and my host parents are getting on, but are also amazingly energetic compared to my own parents. My Host Mother retired from doing casual shifts at her local hospital at 81. My Host Father was career-long army. He joined as a Private and retired as a one-star General. He has a heart condition, but he's had that since his 50's. So you never know, I might get to see them again before they pass on. I hope so.

I just have one friend who I still keep up with from my High School days. She's in Sacramento and we managed to meet for dinner at a Mexican Restaurant with both our wives before our flight east last September. They were telling us about the travails of same-sex marriage first under Californian law, then having that repealed through a referendum and now under Federal law. The tax stuff was a nightmare, they say. They also told us about how they had some Clinton stuff out on their lawn, and how someone shot up the sign and damaged one of their cars in the process. Scary stuff.

I was hurt and horrified that lilbuddha had drawn from my earlier post the idea that I thought all Americans were gun-toting maniacs. I have a deep and abiding relationship of love with one family in America, and that makes me very well disposed to Americans generally. My faith was shaken somewhat with the election of Donald Trump, but I don't think I'm alone there, perhaps especially among Americans.

I don't think the conclusion lilbuddha drew was open from a fair reading of my post. I think its pretty clear that I was trying to imagine what it would be like as a Police Officer, of the apprehension a Police Officer might feel approaching a situation, or even just pulling over a car.

But perhaps I'm wrong. lilbuddha drew the conclusion they did, perhaps others did too. Perhaps others were influenced by the interpretation lilbuddha put on my post. I am very sorry that people might think that I think Americans are gun-toting maniacs, or that I hate Americans. Nothing could be further from the truth and I am very sorry if anyone was offended or hurt by my post.

--------------------
The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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Dave W.
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# 8765

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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
I was hurt and horrified that lilbuddha had drawn from my earlier post the idea that I thought all Americans were gun-toting maniacs. [...]

I don't think the conclusion lilbuddha drew was open from a fair reading of my post. I think its pretty clear that I was trying to imagine what it would be like as a Police Officer, of the apprehension a Police Officer might feel approaching a situation, or even just pulling over a car.

But perhaps I'm wrong. lilbuddha drew the conclusion they did, perhaps others did too. Perhaps others were influenced by the interpretation lilbuddha put on my post. I am very sorry that people might think that I think Americans are gun-toting maniacs, or that I hate Americans. Nothing could be further from the truth and I am very sorry if anyone was offended or hurt by my post.

Oh, don't be an ass. "Hurt and horrified" that someone misinterpreted this?
quote:
I reckon if I was a police officer in the USA, I would have every right to be frightened out of my wits every time I left the station. I would have good reason to assume that every person I encounter is carrying a gun and is prepared to shoot me.
What's to misinterpret? This clearly suggests that Americans really are gun-toting maniacs, since you say police have "every right" and "good reason" to think they are. If that's not what you meant to imply, then maybe you just shouldn't write stupid shit that implies it.
Posts: 1992 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
RooK

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# 1852

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The concept of operant conditioning via rienforcement is based on a small portion of the experience being a certain way. Hence the implied conditioning of 'Merkin police officers being afraid of people having guns would suggest that only the mere possibility has to believably exist. Much the same way that people become addicted to gambling not because they win every time, but because they think they can win once (more).

Far be it for me to dissuade snark in Hell; rather I'm just disappointed in this deviation from Dave W's usual razon-keen insight for his head-snapping logic smacks.

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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740

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There is another view, that people are addicted to losing. I don't think this relates to guns, but maybe it could. I mean, that as a parallel idea, people might prefer lots of guns, because it's less safe.

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no path

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Dave W.
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# 8765

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quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
The concept of operant conditioning via rienforcement is based on a small portion of the experience being a certain way. Hence the implied conditioning of 'Merkin police officers being afraid of people having guns would suggest that only the mere possibility has to believably exist. Much the same way that people become addicted to gambling not because they win every time, but because they think they can win once (more).

Far be it for me to dissuade snark in Hell; rather I'm just disappointed in this deviation from Dave W's usual razon-keen insight for his head-snapping logic smacks.

I don't know if simontoad was trying to say something about the conditioning of American police officers. If so, he didn't mention it in his whiny "some of my best friends are Americans" moan of a follow-up post; and even if he was, describing it as having "every right to be frightened out of my wits every time I left the station" and "good reason to assume that every person I encounter is carrying a gun and is prepared to shoot me" is still pretty fucking stupid.

In short - Rook, your reading is too charitable. There, I said it!

(I have to say, though, that I'm intrigued by the possibility of rienforcment conditioning. Édith Piaf roolz!)

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RooK

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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.:
In short - Rook, your reading is too charitable. There, I said it!

[GASP!]
You take that back, you bastard.

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
The concept of operant conditioning via rienforcement is based on a small portion of the experience being a certain way. Hence the implied conditioning of 'Merkin police officers being afraid of people having guns would suggest that only the mere possibility has to believably exist. Much the same way that people become addicted to gambling not because they win every time, but because they think they can win once (more).

The problem here being simontoad saying 'every right' rather than 'having a reason to be afraid'. And even this is differentiated from having good reason to be afraid.
American police* are typically trained in an us v. them mentality. They are poorly, if at all trained in defusing a situation and they lead with their peni. Authority must respected.

Despite his intentions, posts like the one simontoad actually wrote, are typically associated with blaming the victims of the police rather than addressing the real problems of police training and behaviour.


*In the majority, though possibly not all.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032

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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
I reckon if I was a police officer in the USA, I would have every right to be frightened out of my wits every time I left the station. I would have good reason to assume that every person I encounter is carrying a gun and is prepared to shoot me.


If someone were frightened out of their wits every time they go to do their job, wouldn't it be a strong indicator that they're the wrong person to be doing that job?

Surely it would be better to have cautiously alert, highly trained officers in charge of firearms, and proficient in dealing with the stress of their paid employment; rather than 'frightened out of my wits every time I leave the station'.

Or maybe that's part of the systemic failures?

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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
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The cop who stopped by my coffee place this morning was completely chill, and none of the regulars gathered pulled out a gun. Just like yesterday, and every other morning I've been there. [Snore]
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Martin60
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# 368

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Over 20 dead in Vegas. Another Bataclan? Or just - ho hum - the Holy Second Amendment? Or both?

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Love wins

Posts: 16645 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Barnabas62
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# 9110

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It's much, much worse than that. At least 50 dead, more than 200 injured. The worst ever incident of its kind. The shooter was a 64 year old local, named by the Police as Stephen Paddock, killed at the scene I think. Apparently accompanied by a 62 year old female, Marilou Danley, still at large. Motivation unknown.

Not the time for pond wars.

[Votive]

[ 02. October 2017, 11:05: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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On the basis that this is something like the 337th mass shooting this year, there'll never be a time for pond wars, introspection, bringing forward legislation or just repealing that fucking amendment.

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Forward the New Republic

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Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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Las Vegas
Now the mass shooters are trying to beat the numbers of the last shooter.

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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[brick wall] [Votive] [brick wall] [Votive]

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

Posts: 1037 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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It is't terrorism?
Posts: 10874 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
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# 368

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Och no! That's for rational reasons.

And B62, it's only 1 worse than Orlando last year. It's nothing. It changes nothing. Five hundred dead would change nothing, five thousand. What did 9 11 change?

US foreign policy got worse. If this changes anything, which it isn't significant enough to do by an order of magnitude, it will be worse US domestic policy.

That's a prophecy that.

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Love wins

Posts: 16645 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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Nevada has some of the most lax laws in the states. They don't require firearms owners to have licenses, register their weapons, or limit the number of guns an individual can have. Automatic assault weapons and machine guns are also legal in the state as long as they are registered and are possessed in adherence to federal law, according to the National Rifle Association.

Americans need to take this problem in their own hands. Our Presidents and congressmen won't help us, they are all too afraid of the NRA lobbyists.

I voted for Obama because he said he would crack down on lobbyists and I saw no change.
All Hillary Clinton ever did as a senator was work to pass the counter intuitive Band-Aid known as requiring psychiatrists to report mentally ill people to the gun sellers. Most mass shooters would not have been on that list and many more mentally ill would be afraid of seeking professional help (already a big problem.)The mentally ill people who are seeing a psychiatrist and taking medication are actually less likely than most people to commit a violent act.

We citizens need to fight this with our power as spenders. If we quit taking our vacations in Nevada because of the lax gun laws, I imagine those laws would change rapidly.

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Soror Magna
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# 9881

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Only in the USA is owning more than ten rifles NOT a warning sign. [Mad] [Mad] [Mad]

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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"

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bib
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# 13074

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Sadly it appears the USA loves its guns and its rights more than it loves its people. The trouble is it is unlikely to change.

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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"

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Higgs Bosun
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# 16582

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Trump tweets:
quote:
My warmest condolences and sympathies to the victims and families of the terrible Las Vegas shooting. God bless you!
Good grief! This excuse for a human being seems to have no sense of the wracking pain of having someone you love killed by a mad gunman. "There, there. Never mind, it'll be alright."
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sabine
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# 3861

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I don't want to live here anymore.

sabine

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"Hunger looks like the man that hunger is killing." Eduardo Galeano

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Higgs Bosun:
Trump tweets:
quote:
My warmest condolences and sympathies to the victims and families of the terrible Las Vegas shooting. God bless you!
Good grief! This excuse for a human being seems to have no sense of the wracking pain of having someone you love killed by a mad gunman. "There, there. Never mind, it'll be alright."
"Warmest"??? What is this ******** on about?

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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I’d like to know what use automatic rifles are outside the military?

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Clint Boggis
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# 633

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NRA types find them arousing.
.

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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Serious question ‘tho - what are they used for?

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Garden. Room. Walk

Posts: 12573 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
Crœsos
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# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Serious question ‘tho - what are they used for?

Mass shootings, apparently. That would seem to be self evident.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

Posts: 10352 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged



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