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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Fucking Guns
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
After an entire day of watching Republican Senators, Governors and a few Democrats imply that all we need to do is, "keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill," I'm exhausted from anger.
That seems to be the go to spin for all politicians. How they plan to determine who is mentally ill, in a country where most towns refuse to pass tax levies for mental health clinics, I don't know. Before someone can be diagnosed with a mental illness they have to actually see a doctor. Only then will their names be sent to a gun control registry. If they actually are seeing a doctor they are probably taking medication for their illness, in which case, statistics show they are actually less likely to commit a violent crime than "normal" people.
Of course, many mass murderers like the one who shot 49 people in LA, are not mentally ill at all, but our politicians are ignoring them. They are also ignoring the ones who did have a serious mental illness but used their uncle's, their mother's or their neighbor's gun. Being unable to buy a gun doesn't mean they will be unable to acquire a gun.
No one is asking these politicians just how they expect to "keep guns out of the hands of people like this" as the president promised we would do. Will they hire the Long Island Medium to tell the authorities exactly who has plans for school shootings? Will the police then go to his house and confiscate his guns based on what they think he might do?
Some good citizen in Mississippi saw a YouTube post by the Florida shooter, last September, in which he was promising to become a professional school shooter. The alert citizen did what the president thinks we should all do and reported this red flag to the FBI. From the FBI's own account during today's press conference it sounds like they did a much more intensive background check and personal grilling on the Mississippi citizen then they did on the man who was making threats online. Lesson noted by me and others.
When will they stop this senseless rhetoric about keeping guns away from the bad guys? We cannot predict who will get a notion to go to a concert, school, or church and kill people. We can only try to make sure there are no guns around for the perpetrator to use when they snap.
Either that or we can redefine mentally ill as anyone who wants to purchase a gun. After all, isn't the desire to carry a gun everywhere for protection a clear indication of paranoia?
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
Yep, when we're talking gun control, it's all about improving mental health services. But not any sort of screening or background checks-- that would be intrusive and interfere with their "good guy with a gun" narrative. And then when it's time to fund mental health care, oops, sorry, no money for that. We've got a wall to build.
The bright spot earlier this week (before the tragedy) was the news that gun manufacturer Remington filed for bankrupcy. Because after 8 years of saying "Obama's gonna get your guns!" the NRA-funded election of Trump has undercut all their fear-mongering. The irony is particularly sweet.
I'm supposed to pray for my enemies and the peace and prosperity of the city, but I can't help dancing on this particular grave.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
((Americans frustrated by this situation))
The message coming through on Aussie TV is that the vast majority want background checks, but the politics is against them. I saw one woman being interviewed from a Bay Area pro-safety lobby who was saying that on a state level things are slowly turning around. Her organisation was formed after a shooting in a lawyer's office, but the name eluded me.
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
It comes across as completely normal. Serious faced suit and tie people saying "my condolences" and talking about praying as if it's about someone's grandmother who died in her sleep. Their god is themselves. Or the devil.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Ohher
Shipmate
# 18607
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
((Americans frustrated by this situation))
The message coming through on Aussie TV is that the vast majority want background checks, but the politics is against them. I saw one woman being interviewed from a Bay Area pro-safety lobby who was saying that on a state level things are slowly turning around. Her organisation was formed after a shooting in a lawyer's office, but the name eluded me.
I'm powerfully struck by your phrase "the politics is against them." You've hit exactly on what is so troubling to me: this disembodied "politics," attached, apparently, to nobody and nothing, a sort of poisonous force set loose to shamble among us like Yeats's "rough beast, Its hour come round at last," wreaking mindless destruction for no reason, to no purpose, without any reference whatever to ordinary human endeavor.
This, in a country whose government was meant to be "of the people, for the people, by the people." It's what this country went to war against Great Britain about: the imposition of taxes and disadvantageous policies without any representation in the government doing the imposing.
Most of us want the Dreamers protected.
Most of us want tighter background checks on gun sales.
Most of us want the minimum wage raised.
Most of us want our infrastructure repaired.
Most of us want health insurance as a right.
And on and on. Whatever happened to majority rule?
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From the Land of the Native American Brave and the Home of the Buy-One-Get-One-Free
Posts: 374 | From: New Hampshire, USA | Registered: Jun 2016
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Odd coincidence about a shooting survivor:
Carly Novell survived by hiding in a closet with other kids. In 1949, her grandfather, then 12 years old, survived the murder of his entire family by hiding in a closet.
She's made some strong opinions known, in the wake of the shooting. She also plans to be a journalist.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
simontoad--
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
((Americans frustrated by this situation))
The message coming through on Aussie TV is that the vast majority want background checks, but the politics is against them. I saw one woman being interviewed from a Bay Area pro-safety lobby who was saying that on a state level things are slowly turning around. Her organisation was formed after a shooting in a lawyer's office, but the name eluded me.
Thanks for the good wishes. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I wonder if the organization is related to the 101 California shooting, here in SF in the 90s. 101 California is a high-rise in the Financial District, at the beginning of California St. A man went to the law firm that was handling his wife's side of their divorce. I don't remember how many people he shot/killed. IIRC, the widower of a woman who died there testified before Congress about the need for gun control. I think his kids were with him.
At at my work, some people had radios and happened to catch the initial coverage, and informed the rest of us. Awful.
Wikipedia article.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
[ 16. February 2018, 04:02: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Or, in the words of Martin Luther King Jr,
"The administration's only concrete response was to initiate a study and call for a day of prayer. As a minister, I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility. When a government commands more wealth and power than has ever been known in the history of the world, and offers no more than this, it is worse than blind, it is provocative."
I can't find the source Alan. I don't doubt it for a moment.
"Nonviolence and Social Change," 1967
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
A possible resource:
I'm watching Jimmy Kimmel's late-night talk show. He did a great job of calling out T, Congressional Republicans (especially those who claim to be Christian, but only pray), etc. Tears in his eyes, I think.
He also suggested taking action via Every Town. They're anti gun violence, and pro gun control. Tbey also want to vote out "lawmakers beholden to the gun lobby". The "Act" tab takes you to links to various actions you can take.
NOTE TO NON-AMERICANS: Please don't sign any American petitions--you might invalidate them. I you want to use the features where you can send a message to lawmakers, please identify yourself as from elsewhere, for the same reason. Thx.
NOTE TO H/As: It's 3 clicks from here to any place where you can actually take action, so shouldn't run afoul of the "no petition" rule. Thx.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
My new response to anyone who claims that guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Actually it seems that it's Americans that kill people. So if it's NOT guns that kill people, the only conclusion is that there is something peculiarly murderous about a proportion of the American population.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
I think the lack of affordable mental health provision in the US might have something to do with it.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
simontoad--
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
((Americans frustrated by this situation))
The message coming through on Aussie TV is that the vast majority want background checks, but the politics is against them. I saw one woman being interviewed from a Bay Area pro-safety lobby who was saying that on a state level things are slowly turning around. Her organisation was formed after a shooting in a lawyer's office, but the name eluded me.
Thanks for the good wishes.
I wonder if the organization is related to the 101 California shooting, here in SF in the 90s. 101 California is a high-rise in the Financial District, at the beginning of California St. A man went to the law firm that was handling his wife's side of their divorce. I don't remember how many people he shot/killed. IIRC, the widower of a woman who died there testified before Congress about the need for gun control. I think his kids were with him.
At at my work, some people had radios and happened to catch the initial coverage, and informed the rest of us. Awful.
Wikipedia article.
Yeah that was it, the Giffords Law Centre to Prevent Gun Violence. The woman spoke sense. I should have recalled by remembering Nancy Gifford. She's a bloody legend.
On 'the politics', I think it has something to do with the NRA and something to do with people voting against their interest due to the influence of Fox. However, there is no need nor further point in someone like me analysing or yelling "for God's sake do something!" through my keyboard as most Americans seem to have a pretty good handle on what needs doing.
This has caused me to lower my US gun control outlook status from "not a hope in hell" to "I'm hopeful that something good might happen soon, but I have no idea what or when."
You keep at it, sensible majority. I really really really want you to come out on top. I'm sick of crying too.
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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Mr Clingford
Shipmate
# 7961
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I think the lack of affordable mental health provision in the US might have something to do with it.
That and all the Westerns and their ilk promoting the gun as solution (I sympathize as I love the genre).
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Ne'er cast a clout till May be out.
If only.
Posts: 1660 | From: A Fleeting moment | Registered: Jul 2004
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Mr Clingford
Shipmate
# 7961
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Posted
All we need are armed good guys...
3 minute skit: Youtube
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Ne'er cast a clout till May be out.
If only.
Posts: 1660 | From: A Fleeting moment | Registered: Jul 2004
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I think the lack of affordable mental health provision in the US might have something to do with it.
That and all the Westerns and their ilk promoting the gun as solution (I sympathize as I love the genre).
Apropos the West, Wyatt Earp (amongst others) had a sound idea. When appointed sheriff of some Bad Place he/they banned carrying in bars and other places in which tempers get frayed knowing that a couple of revolvers could cause mayhem, let alone a modern assault rifle.
[ 16. February 2018, 10:06: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Mr Clingford
Shipmate
# 7961
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Posted
Yes, my incomplete understanding is that it is far more likely that people handed in their guns on entering a town, as shown in the aforementioned Unforgiven, an excellent film.
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Ne'er cast a clout till May be out.
If only.
Posts: 1660 | From: A Fleeting moment | Registered: Jul 2004
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
Yes, my incomplete understanding is that it is far more likely that people handed in their guns on entering a town, as shown in the aforementioned Unforgiven, an excellent film.
Yes, that would be better. Out of town, where the bears are, carry your guns. Otherwise, leave law to the lawmen.
I agree it's an excellent film. One of the best. Isn't the town renamed "Hell" in the finale?
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
I'm not a fan of Westerns, but it is hard to escape the conclusion from US movies that guns (or lethal assualt) are the ultimate solution to everything at the hands of the good guys, an ultimate solution that extends to extrajudicial killing as praiseworthy, heroic even.
[ 16. February 2018, 11:44: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
I didn’t realise this -
Most Americans can buy an AR-15 assault rifle before they can buy beer.
Words fail me.
‘Regulation’ seems to be a dirty word to the current administration- but only when it suits them.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I'm not a fan of Westerns, but it is hard to escape the conclusion from US movies that guns (or lethal assualt) are the ultimate solution to everything at the hands of the good guys, an ultimate solution that extends to extrajudicial killing as praiseworthy, heroic even.
We need better stories. It's something that has been preying on my mind for a while, but the number of narratives that rely on the 'good' physically overcoming the 'bad' is pretty overwhelming, and it's often very difficult to think of a different denouement - one that will satisfy both editors and readers.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
My new response to anyone who claims that guns don't kill people, people kill people. Actually it seems that it's Americans that kill people.
A certain young man who I otherwise know to be sensible and honorable was recently wearing a t-shirt that read: "Guns kill people just like pencils cause bad spelling."
Had I been inclined to engage him, I would have pointed out that the purpose of pencils is not to commit spelling errors, but to enable people to make marks on paper that may or may not contain errors; whereas the sole purpose of guns is to enable people to kill.
How can God have made people so stupid?
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
We need better stories. It's something that has been preying on my mind for a while, but the number of narratives that rely on the 'good' physically overcoming the 'bad' is pretty overwhelming, and it's often very difficult to think of a different denouement - one that will satisfy both editors and readers.
Maybe soft power is a force worth investigating. The various abuse scandals certainly look like changing acceptable narratives right now.
[ 16. February 2018, 12:03: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I think the lack of affordable mental health provision in the US might have something to do with it.
And I think constantly blaming it on mental health is a thoroughly foolish thing.
To roughly paraphrase one of the Facebook memes that does the rounds every time this happens: lots of countries have their share of unstable people with grievances. Other countries don't make it so goddamned easy for such people to get a device expressly designed to make killing people a simple thing to do.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I'm not a fan of Westerns, but it is hard to escape the conclusion from US movies that guns (or lethal assualt) are the ultimate solution to everything at the hands of the good guys, an ultimate solution that extends to extrajudicial killing as praiseworthy, heroic even.
We need better stories. It's something that has been preying on my mind for a while, but the number of narratives that rely on the 'good' physically overcoming the 'bad' is pretty overwhelming, and it's often very difficult to think of a different denouement - one that will satisfy both editors and readers.
I think the so-called revisionist western was in part a reply to gung-ho westerns of the past. In fact, Unforgiven would probably be termed revisionist, although the solutions are still found at the point of a gun. An early revisionist film is The Ox-Bow Incident, which shows the perils of rushing to judgment (two men wrongly hung for cattle-rustling).
However, one can still criticize this sub-genre as retaining many elements, e.g. lots of patriarchal stuff. However, there are of course, revisions of this, gay westerns, or westerns with female leading parts.
I don't know if it's an exhausted genre or not. Every time it's written off, it bounces back. Personal note, I'm a fan.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I think the lack of affordable mental health provision in the US might have something to do with it.
And I think constantly blaming it on mental health is a thoroughly foolish thing.
To roughly paraphrase one of the Facebook memes that does the rounds every time this happens: lots of countries have their share of unstable people with grievances. Other countries don't make it so goddamned easy for such people to get a device expressly designed to make killing people a simple thing to do.
It's a cop-out by Trump, surely. Is there any evidence that Cruz was mentally unstable? So Trump is now a qualified psychiatrist, yeah.
Also, how will Trump reconcile restrictions on gun purchase by people with a history of mental illness, with the gun lobby?
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
It's a cop-out to blame the shooting on mental illness alone, to the exclusion of the profusion of guns, but I think there's a good case to be made for that type of person receiving mental health treatment sooner, at least here in France. Cruz could very likely have been sectioned given how many call-outs there apparently were to his house.
Both issues - gun control and mental health provision - are tied up with populations' perception of the role of the state. I get the feeling the French are much more in favour of state mental health provision due to that perception than Americans.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Time to stop the votive candles. No more of these:
The correct emoticon is: ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif) or this: ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
It's Alice in Gunland where everyone must have guns and all must shoot childten.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Well, the phrase 'thoughts and prayers' is surely being sullied now by various politicos, who then go on to say, that of course, it's too soon to talk about guns. So our thoughts must not stray to such profane matters. We are to be reverential in the face of mass killings. What abject cowardice this is.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
of course, it's too soon to talk about guns.
Apparently, talking about it while actualy still under siege is a good way of changing people's minds (second person interviewed)...
[ 16. February 2018, 13:03: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
http://theatln.tc/2Ev7OH9
If that link works given I’m trying to cobble something together on my iPhone: who to blame.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ohher:
...
This, in a country whose government was meant to be "of the people, for the people, by the people." It's what this country went to war against Great Britain about: the imposition of taxes and disadvantageous policies without any representation in the government doing the imposing. ...
And on and on. Whatever happened to majority rule?
Ronald Reagan told the people of the USA that the federal government was the enemy, and they swallowed it, hook, line and sinker.
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Ohher
Shipmate
# 18607
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
Ronald Reagan[/URL] told the people of the USA that the federal government was the enemy, and they swallowed it, hook, line and sinker.
"Swallowed," as if it were a lie? But it isn't, is it? Republicans have made the statement true: Vast transfers of wealth from the poor and middle class to corporations and billionaires; cuts to social safety nets; denial of health care to all but the well-off; weapons policies that result in the routine slaughter of ordinary citizens and their children. How is the federal government not the enemy here?
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From the Land of the Native American Brave and the Home of the Buy-One-Get-One-Free
Posts: 374 | From: New Hampshire, USA | Registered: Jun 2016
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I think there's a good case to be made for that type of person receiving mental health treatment sooner
I think it goes without saying that there is a good case for improvements in provision of mental health services - a statement that I believe is universal, whatever country you're in mental health issues always come a poor second to physical health. The ideal is always going to be that people struggling with life receive the help they need to cope such that they don't end up harming themselves or others.
But, we don't live in an ideal world. We're not going to identify everyone who needs help any more than we're going to identify every cancer early enough to treat it. Adequate provision of health services will help, but saying you need that at the same time as cutting health service provision is just plain stupid. If the present incumbent in the White House wants to help people with health issues then he needs to force a sensible health and welfare package through Congress such that everyone in need receives the care they need at a cost that's affordable to them (ie: free for many, if not all, people). In particular fund primary care that identifies issues before they become problems.
Not that it will stop the growing death toll from guns. That will need to significantly reduce the number of guns in private hands, and make obtaining a gun much much harder.
But, decent health care provision is a Good Thing™ regardless of whether or not it will help stem the slaughter of children in class rooms.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
And the internet is afloat today with memes noting that if you insist that guns must be unregulated, and at the same time gut the health insurance system, you are fucking crazy.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
ISTM that it's the 'leaders/government' of the US that need mental health treatment, starting with Lovely Leader Lonald Lump.
I daresay they could all afford it.
I'll send some thoughts and prayers over to them, to soften the blow on their wallets.
Gobshites, one and all.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
If you're playing the mental health card then that immediately limits the guns to about 60% of the population since around 40% (estimates do vary) of people will exhibit some characteristics of mental impairment at some point.
Who's to say what "normal" is anyway?
If you admit to being possibly likely to use firearms to get your point across in anything other than a him/me life/death situation, then I'd suggest that you keep the firing to a registered club.
As to the argument about loss of freedom, well the USA is already the most repressive regime on the planet so one more law isn't going to make that much difference. I also suggest that the NRA is arraigned for bribery.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
Who's to say what "normal" is anyway?
The trouble with normal is that it always gets worse. And that was written in 1981.
Though I'd also say that we have "Time's Arrow" and "Time's Cycle". At times like these, it's best not to be too linear in our thinking. A re-read of Barbara Tuchman's "The Proud Tower" may be in order (the title of which is from an Edgar Allan Poe poem, which also is helpful in understanding we've been here before, and some have the t-shirts to prove it).
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Well, the phrase 'thoughts and prayers' is surely being sullied now by various politicos, who then go on to say, that of course, it's too soon to talk about guns. So our thoughts must not stray to such profane matters. We are to be reverential in the face of mass killings. What abject cowardice this is.
Prayer is often something we do because we are impotent to do anything else, and I think that there is a recognition that this is human and understandable across the board. When Carl Sagan and Christopher Hitchens, respectively, were diagnosed with cancer they both acknowledged that people prayed for them and expressed gratitude despite having very different views about the Great Perhaps than the people praying. Ed Miliband once confessed that the only occasion in his life that he had prayed was when his father was on his death bed. I think the decent and loving Christian response to that is that anyone making smug remarks about atheists and foxholes deserved a kick on the shins. In thee face of impotence a recourse to prayer is something people do and those who pray deserve our sympathy whether we agree with St. John of the Cross or Richard Dawkins. But to offer one's prayers as an alternative to concrete help that we could offer in the face of preventable tragedy is despicable. Jesus once said that if your son asks for bread, you do not give him a stone. He had clearly not met any Republicans.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Truly, the politicos/fundiegelicals of Usania have created god in their own image.
Time for Judgement Day, perhaps?
Meanwhile, I was talking to two ladies in our local Community Centre café today, and the subject of the latest massacre naturally came up (we Uklanders are also appalled at this apparently now regular occurrence).
The ladies asked, in effect, why The Women Of America, whether wives, mothers, sisters, daughters, or whatever, do not simply rise in righteous wrath, and indignation, and sweep their (mostly) male governmental gobshites into oblivion.
Answers?
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
It seems to me that the pro-gun apolgists will always trot out their little mantra of Guns don't kill people, bad people kill people as and until it is somehow brought to general attention that to prevent this cycle it is necessary to keep the guns away from the bad people.
Now, trying to regulate gun ownership by "bad" people is a non-starter - so you have to limit gun ownership across the board. After all, it is incontrovertible that if the "bad" person doesn't have a gun then they cannot kill - or at least not with a legally owned firearm.
In the meantime, perhaps there should be a campaign mounted alongside all the glossy advertisements saying Come to America - something along the lines of Come to the USA - home of the mass gun ownership and random gun massacres.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Just saw a meme which ran, "Yes, guns don't kill people, people kill people. That's why we want registration and training and renewing licenses. No one cares about the guns."
Over in the Post the great Jennifer Rubin lists and then refutes every half-brained argument the gun lobby makes.
And Congress takes another one of their perfunctory runs at gun legislation. They do this after every tragedy, in addition to the 'thoughts and prayers'. BTW there is a move on to send these congresspersons checks. The amount written is of course 'thoughts and prayers;' if they think that's helpful then they can have it.
[ 16. February 2018, 18:05: Message edited by: Brenda Clough ]
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
This is a good click, one you will feel better for seeing: a cartoon about one of the teachers. This is the man who died while shepherding his pupils to safety. His soul undoubtedly gazes upon that of the Savior today.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Actually, Brenda, that cartoon brought a tear to my world-weary and cynical eye.
So moving, and what an antidote to the banal, meaningless 'thoughts and prayers' of Lump and his toadies.
Mr. Feis.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
Where I live, the Legislature has been busily making it easier for anyone and everyone to buy and carry guns, without training or licensing or vetting or any other common-sense measure. I just don't understand the thought processes behind their votes, unless it really is just about money.
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
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Posted
From a naive Canadian north of the border:
Here in BC, our new provincial government is looking at ways to increase stiff penalties for reckless driving, place more red light cameras, all in an effort to reduce vehicle fatalities.
No one, I know, believes in a "right to drive". Driving is a privilege, and it is almost taken for granted that the state has a duty to ensure that driving is regulated, from proper licensing and training of new drivers to stiff enforcement of driving offenses from speeding to drunk driving. With the regulation and licensing, most people who are drivers still drive their cars to work, enjoy driving their families and friends.
I wonder why some Americans don't apply that thinking to proper gun control and gun safety.
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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.
Posts: 4332 | From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2007
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alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
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Posted
The best quote I've seen so far is this:
quote:
We should just ban all guns and then when gun owners complain send our thoughts and prayers. If it's good enough when you lose your child then it'll be more than enough when you lose your gun
You see I do believe in prayer and I believe it is a spiritual connection with the heart of God. To send ones prayers to someone suffering in a horrible way and then to object to measures that are so desperately needed is the deepest of hypocrisy and the very opposite of prayer...
AFZ
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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
"Thoughts and prayers" from people in power, who actually do nothing to change the gun situation are blasphemy.
As I've said before there aren't enough millstones.
Huia ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
[ 16. February 2018, 19:14: Message edited by: Huia ]
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Huia:
"Thoughts and prayers" from people in power, who actually do nothing to change the gun situation are blasphemy.
As I've said before there aren't enough millstones.
Huia
The hypocrisy is that "thoughts and prayers" are never applied to other issues.
When the wealthy few whined for more tax cuts, the Republican politicians did not send them "thoughts and prayers", so that they could accept with gracious humility the reality that they should pay higher taxes than the poor. No, the Republicans went forward and cut their taxes.
When the Republicans argued that Saddam Hussein had WMD with no evidence, they did not send Hussein "thoughts and prayers" so that he may turn from the way of violence and accept the way of peace. No, the Republicans went forward and bombed Iraq.
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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.
Posts: 4332 | From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2007
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alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Huia:
"Thoughts and prayers" from people in power, who actually do nothing to change the gun situation are blasphemy.
As I've said before there aren't enough millstones.
Huia
Yep, blasphemy is the word.
AFZ
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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
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