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Source: (consider it) Thread: Fucking Guns
simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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Florida Shooting: I cannot even begin to imagine

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Human

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Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:

And I will blubber like it's the last 15 minutes of the film Persuasion.


I'll blubber like Emma Thompson in the proposal scene in
Sense and Sensibility

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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I really wish people would stop treating shooting a lot of people as evidence in and of itself of mental disturbance.

Unless you want to turn the jails into mental hospitals. Because that seems to be the logical premise: if you did something really bad you simply must be mentally ill. You couldn't possibly be an evil asshole with doses of racism/misogyny/insert as applicable based on the kind of person you decided to kill.

And in a case like this where the perpetrator is still alive, what is this going to do to a trial? You've got the leaders of the land announcing their diagnosis.

I'm well aware that there's evidence linking criminal behaviour and brain function, but we have to treat this as a serious issue rather than a glib diagnosis being doled out on social media: where is the line between behaviour you ARE legally responsible for, because you're of sane mind but chose to behave as an evil bastard, versus behaviour you are not legally responsible for because you're mentally disturbed?

Lately it seems that if you're a white bloke who goes on a shooting rampage, people are extremely ready to start suggesting that your mental state is compromised, rather than accept the possibility that you chose by your own will to be murderous.

Perhaps my favourite meme to come from this particular event, though, is an observation that on the (less frequent) occasions that a Muslim does this, their sanity is not in question. The meme then queries whether there's something about the Muslim diet that's the cause of their unusually good mental health.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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The family

that took Cruz in is telling their story now. It's everything we've been talking about in a nutshell. The Sneads are nice, caring people. They take in a friend of their son's who has lost his mother. She takes him for therapy but he doesn't think he can afford the medication. They are kind people, but he has several guns he keeps in a locked cabinet. Mr. Snead makes sure Nikolas keeps his guns in a locked cabinet, too. They're all about gun safety. [Roll Eyes] [Tear]

{A million times, yes, to what Orfeo just said. The tendency to call bad people mentally ill just increases stigma and further confuses people about what brain disease really is.}

[ 19. February 2018, 10:59: Message edited by: Twilight ]

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Barnabas62
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# 9110

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Overlapping categories, orfeo? Some violent people are sane, some are insane. Some insane people are violent, some are non-violent.

It doesn't seem wrong to me to say that those identified as having psychopathic or sociopathic tendencies (both of those are classified as mental disorders) are best spotted early, since they fall into the potentially dangerous category. But that won't identify all the potentially dangerous. Some people just snap under pressure and do dreadful things.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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alienfromzog

Ship's Alien
# 5327

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I have an American friend on Facebook who used to be a Republican. She will never vote GOP again, I suspect. The craven enabling of Trump and the apologetists for his evil is the reason.

Anyway, she posted on Facebook this morning Matthew 2:18
quote:
NIV:
“A voice is heard in Ramah,
weeping and great mourning,
Rachel weeping for her children
and refusing to be comforted,
because they are no more.”

Now, of course Biblical scholars among you will know that it has been argued that Matthew is misapplying the OT here but the notion of a parent who cannot be comforted because her children are no more is a powerful one and it's clearly applicable to the Herod genocide of boys under 2 years of age; even if Jeremiah is not specifically prophesying about the birth of Christ.

She - like me - is a fan of Michael Card. Reading that verse in the context of the latest US shooting reminded me of his song Spirit of the Age which refers to this verse and has this lyric:
quote:
Now every age has heard it, the voice that speaks from Hell: "Sacrifice your children and for you it will be well"
I think that sums it up nicely.

It's not as though there aren't measures that reduce gun crime. There are.
It's not as though it hasn't happened before. It has.

Ultimately it is as simple as this: The US nation is prepared to sacrifice it's children for personal freedom or the rights of gun owners or the right to self-defence or whatever other half-arsed excuse the NRA will come up with next...

It's a choice; sensible gun-control laws or the deaths of children.

The song continues:
quote:
The subtle serpent's lying, His dark and ruthless rage
Behold, it is revealed to be the spirit of the age

The voices heard of weeping and of wailing
History speaks of it on every page
Of innocent and helpless little babies
Offerings to the spirit of the age

AFZ

--------------------
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]

An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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quote:
The subtle serpent's lying, His dark and ruthless rage
Behold, it is revealed to be the spirit of the age

What a wonderfully accurate and concise description of The Orange Lord Of Modern Mordor.... [Disappointed]

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Actually, one could extend that description to the Orange Lord's evil host of orcs, toadies, wormtongues, and lickspittles....

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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I've posted elsewhere that America is in the thrall of Moloch. Where is the prophet who will rise up and denounce the false god?

Back in Florida, the school system knew for years that he was troubled, and tried to help. Do we want the school system to be the front line on mental illness? And of course in defense, since the NRA proposes to arm all the teachers.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Ohher
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# 18607

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It isn't only school systems facing obstacles to getting help.

Try being the parent, in my state, of a child with an already-diagnosed mental illness. Even if you are rolling in dough, have a Cadillac health-care plan, and are willing/able to shell out megabucks for private care, you'll face obstacles.

You won't be able to commit this child to an institutional setting unless the child is a danger to himself or others at the time when committal is sought. Your daughter, recently diagnosed with schizophrenia and still working through the often lengthy trial-and-error process of figuring out which meds work and at what dosages (plus these protocols can change in unpredictable ways and at unpredictable times even when the patient is supremely compliant with the regimen), becomes temporarily convinced that you are the devil and tries to stab you with a breadknife as you lie sleeping Thursday night.

So sorry; it's now Tuesday afternoon, and your daughter is not currently expressing any such belief or intention; the episode has passed and/or the meds have been adjusted. She'll be returned to your care. The fact that you and your partner/spouse (should you have one) now feel you must take turns standing watch over one another in fear of your lives, well, what did you expect? You are her parent(s) and she's your responsibility.

In addition, there's the school system to consider, which by law is required to educate your IDEA-eligible daughter in the least restrictive environment possible -- namely, their classrooms and your home. Sooner or later, someone on your IEP "team" (I use the term loosely) is almost sure to decide that the real problem here is you -- that is, you're the crazy one, or that you are driving your kid crazy -- and will block any suggestions you make during your child's IEP meetings where services and accommodations are agreed to.

This person will be aided and abetted by school district authorities, whose primary objectives on any IEP team are to avoid spending money and to resist providing services or accommodations.

I feel sorry for the Sneads. First, with ZERO legal authority to be part of Cruz's special ed team (assuming he had one, and if he didn't, this school district is surely at fault), there was virtually nothing they could do. Second, it seems possible they were in WAY over their heads with this kid; did they have any understanding of the problems he faced with the school? Third, people are now going to blame them.

And it's all much, much worse when a child has mental illness and has yet to be diagnosed.

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From the Land of the Native American Brave and the Home of the Buy-One-Get-One-Free

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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by Ohher:
It isn't only school systems facing obstacles to getting help.

Try being the parent, in my state, of a child with an already-diagnosed mental illness. Even if you are rolling in dough, have a Cadillac health-care plan, and are willing/able to shell out megabucks for private care, you'll face obstacles.

You won't be able to commit this child to an institutional setting unless the child is a danger to himself or others at the time when committal is sought. Your daughter, recently diagnosed with schizophrenia and still working through the often lengthy trial-and-error process of figuring out which meds work and at what dosages (plus these protocols can change in unpredictable ways and at unpredictable times even when the patient is supremely compliant with the regimen), becomes temporarily convinced that you are the devil and tries to stab you with a breadknife as you lie sleeping Thursday night.

So sorry; it's now Tuesday afternoon, and your daughter is not currently expressing any such belief or intention; the episode has passed and/or the meds have been adjusted. She'll be returned to your care. The fact that you and your partner/spouse (should you have one) now feel you must take turns standing watch over one another in fear of your lives, well, what did you expect? You are her parent(s) and she's your responsibility.

In addition, there's the school system to consider, which by law is required to educate your IDEA-eligible daughter in the least restrictive environment possible -- namely, their classrooms and your home. Sooner or later, someone on your IEP "team" (I use the term loosely) is almost sure to decide that the real problem here is you -- that is, you're the crazy one, or that you are driving your kid crazy -- and will block any suggestions you make during your child's IEP meetings where services and accommodations are agreed to.

This person will be aided and abetted by school district authorities, whose primary objectives on any IEP team are to avoid spending money and to resist providing services or accommodations.

I feel sorry for the Sneads. First, with ZERO legal authority to be part of Cruz's special ed team (assuming he had one, and if he didn't, this school district is surely at fault), there was virtually nothing they could do. Second, it seems possible they were in WAY over their heads with this kid; did they have any understanding of the problems he faced with the school? Third, people are now going to blame them.

And it's all much, much worse when a child has mental illness and has yet to be diagnosed.

No editing of your post-- this needs to be read and reread in full)


[Votive] [Votive] [Votive]

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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The GOP gutted mental health care benefits, too. To now blame parents, teachers and others seems especially cruel.

In other developments, Fox News alleges that grieving Florida teens are in the pay of somebody. Or it was orchestrated. Or something. Stay classy, conservative media!

And, a number of congressmen are raising money for their campaigns by raffling off guns! See the little tab at the top of this guys page, to register for your very own AR-15.

Here are third graders selling the raffle tickets.

And another GOP candidate raffles off an assault rifle.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Actually, one could extend that description to the Orange Lord's evil host of orcs, toadies, wormtongues, and lickspittles....

IJ

Careful now! [Two face]

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Human

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alienfromzog

Ship's Alien
# 5327

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The first 11 minutes of John Oliver is all relevant and distinctly on point. (The rest is a mash-up of various shows)
[Killing me] [Mad] [Mad] [Overused]

AFZ

--------------------
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]

An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
The family

that took Cruz in is telling their story now. It's everything we've been talking about in a nutshell. The Sneads are nice, caring people. They take in a friend of their son's who has lost his mother. She takes him for therapy but he doesn't think he can afford the medication. They are kind people, but he has several guns he keeps in a locked cabinet. Mr. Snead makes sure Nikolas keeps his guns in a locked cabinet, too. They're all about gun safety. [Roll Eyes] [Tear]

{A million times, yes, to what Orfeo just said. The tendency to call bad people mentally ill just increases stigma and further confuses people about what brain disease really is.}

I'm massively projecting my own feelings for another family in a similar situation to the Sneads, in that they too 'adopted' the long-time boyfriend of their daughter when his mother died. The Sneads went further than the family I know in taking the boy into their home. What charity! They saw need in front of them and acted.

Their story is a call to prayer.

On mental illness, I used to think that the whole crazy shooter thing would help to get better services for people like me. That was pure fantasy...

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Human

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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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The ever-contemptible Rush Limbaugh accuses the bereaved students of capitalizing on the tragedy. He is BTW essentially the voice of the Republican voter.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
The Sneads went further than the family I know in taking the boy into their home. What charity! They saw need in front of them and acted.

On TV this morning, Mr. Snead said he knew that "Nick" had guns and was bringing them into the house, but he didn't know how many or what kind. "A few hunting rifles" is what I believe he said. He also said he insisted that they be kept locked in a safe for which he "thought" he had the only key.

When asked if he knew Nick had an assault rifle, he said he believed he did but that he used it only for hunting. When asked if he thought that was justifiable, he replied, "It's his right."

He said he's a gun advocate himself, and that knowing now what he knows, he would not have acted any differently.

If that's charity, then I'll help myself to something from the plate when it's passed rather than putting something in.

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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Whilst still having some residual sympathy for the Sneads, I think Miss Amanda has highlighted the lack of joined-up thinking to which Usania's worship of the Gun God has led.

[Votive] for a once-great country that has clearly gone bonkers.

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Ohher
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# 18607

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What impresses me is how little this family seemed to know -- or even inquire -- about this young man. While the charitable impulse may be admirable, the lack of any apparent forethought, or even curiosity, about this guy's habits, his possessions, his values, his interests and activities, etc., boggles the mind.

Is it "uncharitable" to try to suss out what your family is taking on when bringing a new member into the fold? Or is it a sort of arrogance -- whatever happens, we can deal with it?

I'm trying to imagine bringing a near-adult person into my household without first getting in touch with his school or checking with the guy's neighbors or other relatives to get a handle on who he is and what I might be heading into.

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From the Land of the Native American Brave and the Home of the Buy-One-Get-One-Free

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Bishops Finger
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Especially in a country where access to weapons of mass murder seems so easy.

I mean, it's not as if this sort of thing hasn't happened before.....

[Disappointed]

In all fairness, of course, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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rolyn
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# 16840

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
[Votive] for a once-great country that has clearly gone bonkers.

It is sometimes said that America's today will be Britain’s tomorrow.

Thank goodness that firm action was taken on automatic firearms post Hungerford, and again post Dunblane, and that the whimperings of our own gun lobby was flatly ignored.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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This is what it was like, less than two years ago.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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This blog post is worthy reading, just ignore the title it you don't like the word in the title of a blog post, though you probably do like it because it's the same word in the title of this thread.

quote:
My knee jerk reaction is to consider weapons like the AR-15 no big deal because it is my default setting. It’s where my training lies. It is my normal, because I learned how to fire a rifle IN THE ARMY.... those targets weren’t shaped like deer. They were shaped like people....

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Thank you, both.

What Obama did.
[Overused]

What t does.
[Projectile]

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
This is what it was like, less than two years ago.

Beautiful.
[Tear]

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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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I don't know much about the family that took Nick in. But, from a couple of things I saw, both parents are (ex- ?) military, and their son is friends with Nick.

So that might affect their attitude about guns. (Plus Army folks tend to be Republican.) And they may have felt they knew Nick well enough.

Someone (Brenda?) posted a link about how hard his teachers tried to get help for him. He's had trouble for a long, long time. After a lot of hard work by teachers and school district (?) folks, he finally got into a school for kids with emotional disturbances, and was there for a couple of years. Then, for some reason, he left and went back to regular school. I think it was after that that his adoptive father died. His adoptive mom died last fall. And he and his girlfriend broke up.

I wonder how old he was when he was relinquished for adoption. Lots of bad stuff can happen, even to a baby.

Also he was reportedly diagnosed with ADHD and ASD. Not that those make a person violent. But his whole life seems like a slow-moving train wreck, with lots of factors. People tried to stop the train, but nothing worked.

I'm not remotely excusing his actions. Just that lots of factors probably brought him to that point.
[Frown] [Tear] [Votive]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Gee D
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# 13815

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Miss Amanda you are ever the lady. Most of us would have used much stronger terms about Snead.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Another plethora of factors:

"Woman who cared for Florida shooter wants control of his inheritance" (NY Post).

Given that it's the NY Post, a grain or two of salt may be needed. But here's the gist:

--Nick and his brother were put in the care of a woman after their mom died.

--She eventually kicked him out over his gun collection.

--She stole money from him.

--After the shooting, she filed papers to be in charge of his inheritance. He gets $800k when he's 22.

--She also had his brother involuntarily committed. (I haven't followed the link to that, so I don't know why.)

I presume Nick lived with her before he lived with his friend's parents.

Good grief. [Mad]

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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alienfromzog

Ship's Alien
# 5327

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A good reposit to the God is not allowed in schools meme.

AFZ

[ 21. February 2018, 07:28: Message edited by: alienfromzog ]

--------------------
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]

An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)

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alienfromzog

Ship's Alien
# 5327

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quote:
Originally posted by alienfromzog:
A good reposit to the God is not allowed in schools meme.

AFZ

Probably I meant riposte....

--------------------
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]

An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)

Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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So, a proposed ban on bump stocks ....

It's something, though in terms of effectiveness at reducing the frequency of mass shootings and the death toll from guns I can't see how it could possibly be more effective than banning guns with a blue and pink polka dot paint job.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110

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Trump's financial support in 2016 from the NRA amounted to $30 million, so anything more than a token gesture, agreed in confidence with the NRA, is not to be expected.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Callan
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# 525

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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
[Votive] for a once-great country that has clearly gone bonkers.

It is sometimes said that America's today will be Britain’s tomorrow.

Thank goodness that firm action was taken on automatic firearms post Hungerford, and again post Dunblane, and that the whimperings of our own gun lobby was flatly ignored.

We don't really have a gun lobby, thank God, our own dear Armament Manufacturers make their living by either providing the armed services with their kit or selling stuff to other peoples armed forces. My recollection of the Hungerford massacre is that everyone let Douglas Hurd, who was Home Secretary at the time, get on with it and the only significant whimpering post-Dunblane, was on the part of the Duke of Edinburgh, who seemed to think that if guns were banned cricket bats would be next. Also the UK has no tradition of the frontier or the wild west and we did have about thirty years of an indigenous terrorist movement which, on a couple of occasions, came within an ace of taking out the British Government. I suspect that if The Donald spent five minutes cowering under machine gun fire, whilst the Secret Service were shooting back, he might rethink his views on gun control. A lot of gun violence in the US, AFAICS, involves black on black violence, which is probably why it's not an issue. I suspect that if there was a certain amount of black on Republican legislators gun violence that might change. You can imagine what this is doing to my inner ethicist.

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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton

Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
Also the UK has no tradition of the frontier or the wild west

We also have more than a century of licensing of gun owners - combining both suitability of the owner and the justification for having a gun (with the particular gun owned for that purpose being suitable). We have effectively always had a requirement that to own a gun you needed to a) demonstrate a need for a gun, b) demonstrate that the gun you wanted to buy was suitable for your need (and, if you already had a gun you weren't replacing why you need two guns), and c) satisfy the local police or other officials that you're a suitable person to own a gun. What Hungerford and Dunblane did was tighten existing legislation (largely by classifying certain weapons as something no one had a need to own). AIUI you need a permit for each weapon, and when buying ammunition you need to produce that to show you legally own a gun that uses that ammunition. The permit also stipulates how the gun and ammunition are stored (separately, unloaded, in locked cabinets) and failure to comply with those stipulations means you lose the permit (a colleagues husband lost his shotgun permit when they were burgled and the cabinet storing the gun was broken open, he failed to keep the gun locked away).

Added to which, the law in the UK has always explicitly stated that self defence (or defence of property) is not a valid reason to own a gun.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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If we had your gun laws I would be content. So would a lot of students in Florida.

One of the awful things about the child system in the US is that there's a foster/adoption program all right. But it ends when you're 18. Boom, suddenly you have no support at all and you sink or swim. In the day when there was the demand for it you could enlist in the armed forces, or get a job in manufacturing or mines or farming. You could get a job with nothing but a strong back and good will. Now it's just about impossible. Contemplate your own 17 or 18 year old and imagine the kid out on its own.

This guy was 19 and troubled from early on. He may have had lots of help, two years ago. It all evaporated. He had no health insurance, no mental support services, no way to get housing or a job. And ... now all that's taken care of; he'll probably never be free again.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Soror Magna
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# 9881

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
This is what it was like, less than two years ago.

Trump isn't even worthy to lick Obama's shoes.

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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"

Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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From the BBC news report about the Florida students' protests:
quote:
The president, who is a strong gun rights advocate, will host students and teachers at the White House on Wednesday for a "listening session" on gun control.
Will he listen? Or, even if he does, will he do anything positive?

I hope they cover him with verbal shite, and give him HELL....

[Mad]

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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If he stays true to form he'll blurt out some egregious inapproriateness. I believe that they may have got him out of groping pussies, but I trust that all those girls have big sturdy leather handbags which they will keep tightly clasped front and center.

This is from the POST,
a FL official calling the students paid actors traveling from crisis to crisis. Mercifully, he was immediately fired. Alas, the right-wing conspiracy machine is grinding out a lot of stuff like this.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110

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Despite the power of the NRA and the fear of House Reps in red districts, there are some signs of a sea change in public opinion. I'm hoping this isn't going to be a nine days wonder.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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This is not a new notion, but E.J. Dionne has more megaphone than me: removing the metal detectors and handbag searches at the US Capitol. They talk the talk, let them walk the walk and see how they like it instead of imposing it on all of us while they stay safe.

That was from the POST but this is from CNN, a free click: the Florida legislator refuses to discuss gun control but concentrates on banning porn.

Jennifer Rubin summarizes the latest Quinnipiac University poll for us, and says:

"American voters support stricter gun laws 66-31 percent, the highest level of support ever measured by the independent Quinnipiac University National Poll, with 50-44 percent support among gun owners and 62-35 percent support from white voters with no college degree and 58-38 percent support among white men.

Today’s result is up from a negative 47-50 percent measure of support in a December 23, 2015, survey . . . Support for universal background checks is itself almost universal, 97-2 percent, including 97-3 percent among gun owners. Support for gun control on other questions is at its highest level since the Quinnipiac University Poll began focusing on this issue in the wake of the Sandy Hook massacre.”

That includes support for a ban on the sale assault weapons (67 percent to 29 percent) and a mandatory waiting period (83 percent to 14 percent) for all gun purchases. Unlike the National Rifle Association, voters say that if more people had guns we’d be less safe (59 percent to 33 percent) and want Congress to do more to reduce gun violence (75 percent to 17 percent). Seventy percent of Americans correctly say that “mass killings by U.S. citizens is a bigger problem than mass killings by people from other countries.”"

How long can Congress continue to defy the will of the people? Hmm, 200-odd days to November...

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
From the BBC news report about the Florida students' protests:
quote:
The president, who is a strong gun rights advocate, will host students and teachers at the White House on Wednesday for a "listening session" on gun control.
Will he listen? Or, even if he does, will he do anything positive?

I hope they cover him with verbal shite, and give him HELL....

[Mad]

IJ

His political genius is showing again. The back door is unlocked: background checks.

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Love wins

Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Og, King of Bashan

Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562

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Trump held a chat with kids from the Florida school today.

Expect to hear a lot of talk about "school safety" in the coming weeks from GOP members of congress when asked about what they are doing to solve this problem. Trump mused that an armed teacher could have stopped this shooting very quickly.

My teacher friends on Facebook are rather annoyed by this suggestion, for a number of understandable reasons. Some are asking if their guns and training would be paid for by the government, or if they would be on their own, as they are for many classroom supplies.

I was listening to my favorite drive-time hate listen a few weeks ago, a conservative program ironically dubbed "Rush to Reason." They had an expert on active shooter situations on. His advice was to find cover and stay down. Which, it seems to me, is in complete contrast with the President's proposal.

My mom was a teacher for about a year, during a moment in the 1970s when schools in this area were experiencing bomb scares. She remembers that a trainer came in, and told the teachers that their first job was to help the kids out of the building. After that, no kidding, they were told to re-enter the building and look for the bomb. The more things change... [Disappointed]

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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Here's a dazzler, a church in PA which is going to have a blessing of the guns. The friend who posted this adds that we really don't need Russian bots to troll us, we're nutty enough on our own.

This will cost you a POST link, Alexandra Petri explaining why the pain and activism of teens is being deplored by the gun nuts. She is the POST humor colomnist; if you want a more serious version here it is.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Ohher
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# 18607

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Arming teachers?

A few years back, the community college where I teach hired an adjunct who had been teaching abroad -- Japan, maybe? Anyway, he demanded that all his classes be on the same two days of the week; demanded extra classes; came in and started ordering other adjuncts (including me) to do his xeroxing for him and setting up tutoring appointments for his students (they're supposed to make their own appointments), etc.

A couple of weeks after the semester started, students were coming to the writing center complaining of being screamed at, sworn at, kicked out of class, etc. One day, when I was teaching in one of two adjacent computer labs, I could hear him yelling at his class next door. After setting my class up with their assignment, I went over & stuck my head through the door and asked him for a moment. Result? He started screaming and swearing at me.

He didn't make it through the semester, thank God. But imagining what he might have done if armed . . . no, thanks.

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From the Land of the Native American Brave and the Home of the Buy-One-Get-One-Free

Posts: 374 | From: New Hampshire, USA | Registered: Jun 2016  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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OK this is a good one. From the POST, two policemen buy a ticket home for a Florida woman who was trying to get back to the memorial services in time. She attended Parkland HS and knew the kids who were killed. They chipped in out of their own pockets.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
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# 1468

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I've come across several "could've been a school shooting, but someone stepped in" stories, since Florida.

IIRC, one was a woman reporting her grandson. Another kid brought a gun to school, but it didn't go further. And a boy was overheard talking about doing something. Cops went to his home, and found a bunch of guns.

[Votive]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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This is another encouraging link, because we need them, and it's free. A slightly profane admonition to the high school students to ignore the adults.

We taught them this. We gave them the books, about Frodo and Katniss and Harry Potter. We let them watch Supergirl and Buffy. They know that it's teens who have to save the world from the monsters. I am so proud of them, and I hope some of them grow up soon enough for me to vote for them. Because you can be they'll stay involved.

[ 22. February 2018, 01:54: Message edited by: Brenda Clough ]

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
From the BBC news report about the Florida students' protests:
quote:
The president, who is a strong gun rights advocate, will host students and teachers at the White House on Wednesday for a "listening session" on gun control.
Will he listen? Or, even if he does, will he do anything positive?

I hope they cover him with verbal shite, and give him HELL....

[Mad]

IJ

His political genius is showing again. The back door is unlocked: background checks.
Is it politics anymore? Or something else.

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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
I've come across several "could've been a school shooting, but someone stepped in" stories, since Florida. . . . Another kid brought a gun to school, but it didn't go further.

There have been three incidents here in Phoenix in recent days where boys were arrested for bringing guns to school. See here, here and here.

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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
not entirely me
Shipmate
# 17637

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And Trump suggests the solution is to have more guns in schools for teachers to shoot the really naughty kids.
Posts: 68 | From: England | Registered: Apr 2013  |  IP: Logged



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