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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Bloody Brexiteers
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
The other problem that we are currently facing is one of accountability. The whole model used by the Leave campaign as it was structuring itself was clearly that it could dump a whole pile of steaming shit on the doorstep of the Houses of Parliament and someone else would use it to fertilise the fields of our green and pleasant lands (including those not in Blake's vision). The idea that they should have to have an account themselves of how this was going to happen clearly did not occur to them. There is no reason why it should have occurred to anyone else, so please could it be noted that the current surreal hiatus is caused by the complete fuckwitted cluelessness of Boris and chums, and not by any fault of the Remain side.
Oh fuck. I have just discovered that I agree with George Osborne. My viability as a human being is in question.
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
British politicians have said this morning that they think Article 50 should only be invoked in 2020 (!?) and from what some experts are saying, there is nothing the other EU countries could do to stop this delay.
Not politically there isn't, but this kind of talk is why not a few voices in the EU-27 want the UK to put its money where its mouth is sooner rather than later.
The longer the UK waits to invoke Article 50, the longer the period of uncertainty. If there's one thing the markets hate more than anything else, it's uncertainty. This reality will start to bite on both sides of the Channel.
Prolonging that uncertainty because of a domestic crisis in the UK also imperils the rest of the EU economy and (again) reduces the UK's negotiating power with the (rest of the) EU - even if it were ultimately to attempt to wriggle out of the referendum result.
Yes other referendums have been reneged on, but not ones with so much immediately at stake due to the result, or ones for which it has been clearly spelled out that this was a one-shot choice.
You cannot go back. There is no Ctrl+Z. Even if the referendum result could suddenly be magicked away you do not go back to your previous restore point.
quote:
From our position within it, it is worth taking these very mild steps to see if the result can be challenged. If you don't like it, well hard cheese and tough tittie.
You're welcome to try, but I think it's madness.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Ariel: quote:
I don't know what to say. I don't know which would be worse as PM, him or Boris.
Makes Theresa May (aka Thatcher Mk II) look like the moderates' choice, doesn't it.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
That's what I just said in Purg.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
We kicked ourselves out of the EU, in part as a complaint about lack of democracy. The irony of having no vote in our own PM.
But, I suppose it could be worse - we could live on the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
And this is no different to every single election, referendum, plebiscite or elimination from a television talent quest.
We simply do not operate on a system whereby those who think they know the 'right' answer get to discount the value of the votes of those who gave the 'wrong' answer. That isn't how democratic voting works. The vote of the person who we either think or know is a complete moron who doesn't have a clue counts for exactly the same amount as the vote of the person who has a PhD in political theory.
No, there is a difference - the representative democracy that we have doesn't made binary decisions based on the popular vote, probably for the sensible reason that the majority can simply railroad the minority even when the result is close.
That's true. Normally you provide people with a range of candidates and a first-past-the-post voting system, so that the minority can railroad the majority instead.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
we could live on the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands.
I don't know for sure about the IoM, but the Channel Islands have their own elected first ministers and government, and are not part of the EU. They are part of the EEA.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
orfeo, what is your problem with the commentary you're seeing here? The despair of what has happened to the country, with all the racism that has been unleashed? Or the wriggling around trying to find a way out?
You mean I only get to choose one?
I'm not commenting much on the racism aspect because plenty of other people will say how bad that is without me. What I'm primarily commenting on is how many of my lefty progressive friends are trying to wriggle out of the popular mood because it turns out they're not on the side of the popular mood this time around.
It's sore losing on a colossal scale, and whether it's driven by wailing about how right they were or having got into a winners mindset based on opinion polls, it's a deeply unedifying spectacle and it's making me wish I was a little more right wing and racist because then I could at least gloat at my opponents' misfortune. As it is I'm just finding myself deeply embarrassed at how people I generally side with are behaving.
I fully agree with Eutychus that not implementing the wish of the British people as expressed in the referendum would be a fucking disaster. It would be a colossal blow to the democratic process.
The only next step I'm on board with, apart from Article 50, is any move by Scotland to remain in the EU, because that would be in accordance with the wish of the Scottish people. But that's also because departing the EU would be a highly significant change from the situation during the previous Scottish independence referendum.
For the UK as a whole, all that's happened is that a pile of people lost a vote and they can't handle it so they want another go. Would you like a replay against Iceland as well? How many times do you get to rewrite history and pretend that what happened didn't happen?
People knew what the decision was. People's basis for making the decision doesn't fucking matter. A ballot paper doesn't ask me whether I'm voting for a particular bloke because I like his policies or because I like his hairstyle, it just asks me whether I'm voting for him. Asked and answered. The verdict is in. Anyone who tries to change the verdict is betraying notions of democracy far more than a foreign bureaucrat could hope to manage.
[ 28. June 2016, 08:16: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
we could live on the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands.
I don't know for sure about the IoM, but the Channel Islands have their own elected first ministers and government, and are not part of the EU. They are part of the EEA.
They are all Crown-dependencies. As such, changes in the relationship between the UK and the EU will impact their own positions. Especially if the UK doesn't end up within the EEA, in which case it would be difficult for the Crown dependencies to maintain their position within the EEA.
The point about democracy was that despite the potential for Brexit to change their position in Europe the Channel Islands and Man did not get to participate in the referendum. I'm not sure how Gibraltar got to participate when they didn't. It wouldn't have made a difference - even if they voted 100% in favour of Remain there wouldn't have been enough votes to tip the balance.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
For the first time ever, I'm watching a live debate in the European Parliament. And seeing Juncker dressing down Farage.
That's a cage fight which would sell tickets.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Zing. They're slapping Farage about in the European parliament.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Farage turned up? Wait - guaranteed chance to get his smug, gloating face all over TV sets across the EU. Of course he turned up.
Someone probably got an asthma attack clearing out the dust and cobwebs from his office though.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
I bet he's wishing he hadn't. Been called a blatant liar.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
This is great, he just got called a fascist as well.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Duck's back. Water.
I agree that Parliament should not ignore the result of the referendum. I think our relationship with the rest of the EU is so badly damaged now that the best we can hope for is to exit as gracefully as possible.
I have detected one small glimmer of a silver lining; this should put paid once and for all to the myth that the Conservatives can be trusted with the economy.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
I have detected one small glimmer of a silver lining; this should put paid once and for all to the myth that the Conservatives can be trusted with the economy.
Forget about the economy. They can't be trusted with the Government.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Beenster
Shipmate
# 242
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Posted
I'm watching Farage. He is red rag to the bull. He's terrifying and blaming the EU. So doesn't help. He's a disgrace and making things worse.
What we need is someone to negotiate quietly and not calmly and not blame EU. "none of you have ever done a proper job in your lives ..." i can't believe he said that. How to antagonise.
Posts: 1885 | Registered: May 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Says the man who takes all possible benefits for sitting and doing bugger-all in an elected body he doesn't believe in.
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arse
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
I have detected one small glimmer of a silver lining; this should put paid once and for all to the myth that the Conservatives can be trusted with the economy.
Forget about the economy. They can't be trusted with the Government.
Forget the Government, they couldn't be trusted to give out the pencils and collect the dinner money.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
You'd contemplate giving them two jobs? Isn't that just setting them up to fail?
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I can't read the FB page worrying signs any more - I wanted to quote that FB seemed to have removed some posts while failing to remove out and out racist posts on other pages, and that there was a campaign to remove the whole Sarah Page. But I can't. Because a pop up appears saying I have to sign in to read more. Yesterday this happened a long way down. Now it happens right at the top.
I don't want to join Facebook.
I thought it was a public page!
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
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Posted
Yesterday I apologised to some Brexiteers that my hysterical estimate that our about our economy would be downgraded by the rating agencies by two points had been shown to be wrong & far to pessimistic.
Within half an hour of my apology it happened.
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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Farage turned up? Wait - guaranteed chance to get his smug, gloating face all over TV sets across the EU. Of course he turned up.
Someone probably got an asthma attack clearing out the dust and cobwebs from his office though.
Plus he gets his expenses
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I think I may have found a reason for all the anti-Polish stuff, that makes posting pictures of aircrew unlikely to change things. Or Enigma machines. It also explains the anti-American and Australian stuff as well.
There are some of these abusers that wish we had become part of the Third Reich. They abuse the people whose forebears prevented it.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
It's sore losing on a colossal scale
You’re missing something important though. We lost the referendum to ourselves. I think that’s the reason many of us couldn’t quite believe this would ever happen. We just couldn’t accept that we the British people could really be that racist and thick. I’m still staggered by it. Good grief, how do you get nineteen million people to act so completely against their own best interests while simultaneously trying to be totally selfish??
The reason many of us are so upset is the humiliation of knowing that we are citizens of demonstrably the most stupid nation in the world. It stings. I personally don’t think another referendum is a good idea, but I kind of understand it. People want another go at proving that we’re not that kind of country.
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
demonstrably
The Lord looks on the heart, and I think the chances are it's little better elsewhere. Besides, come November 8...
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
People want another go at proving that we’re not that kind of country.
The mirror is a very harsh device.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
It's sore losing on a colossal scale
You’re missing something important though. We lost the referendum to ourselves. I think that’s the reason many of us couldn’t quite believe this would ever happen. We just couldn’t accept that we the British people could really be that racist and thick. I’m still staggered by it. Good grief, how do you get nineteen million people to act so completely against their own best interests while simultaneously trying to be totally selfish??
The reason many of us are so upset is the humiliation of knowing that we are citizens of demonstrably the most stupid nation in the world. It stings. I personally don’t think another referendum is a good idea, but I kind of understand it. People want another go at proving that we’re not that kind of country.
There are 28 countries in the EU.
Every statement about how this is an utter disaster makes me wonder just how you all think the other 200-odd countries in the world manage to function.
Okay, sure, they're not all a bed of roses, but do you shrink in horror at how calamitous Norway is? Switzerland? Canada? Australia?
These are some of the best countries in the world to live in. They all somehow manage it without being part of an organisation like the EU.
The whole reaction continues to feel hyperbolic.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by orfeo:
[qb] It's sore losing on a colossal scale
Good grief, how do you get nineteen million people to act so completely against their own best interests while simultaneously trying to be totally selfish??[/Q]
Total selfishness is quite often against our best interests, being self-defeating both in the short- and the long-term.
Edited to try and correct codes, but failing abysmally.
[ 28. June 2016, 13:50: Message edited by: jacobsen ]
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Okay, sure, they're not all a bed of roses, but do you shrink in horror at how calamitous Norway is? Switzerland? Canada? Australia?
Yes, but they didn't just arrive in that state as the result of a xenophobic campaign which it would be charitable to describe as dishonest.
Clearly not everyone who voted to Leave was xenophobic and racist. Equally clearly, Leave only went ahead in the polls once they started playing the racist and xenophobic card unashamedly.
Oh, and one of the Remain campaigners was assassinated.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Okay, sure, they're not all a bed of roses, but do you shrink in horror at how calamitous Norway is? Switzerland? Canada? Australia?
The first two of which are in the EEA (and as part of that accept free movement), and the second two didn't just decide to throw all their trade agreements in the air and start again.
Besides, there are important psychological differences between never being part of an organisation, and being part of something and then deciding to quit overnight.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
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Posted
I don't think a second referendum is a realistic possibility but the democratic problem is no one is going to get what they voted for.
48% of us voted to stay. They won't get that.
Of the 52% they voted for lots of reasons such as
- A reduction in immigration (unlikely to actually happen)
- More money for the NHS (Not going to happen)
- A stronger economy (No)
- More control (Not likely)
I could go on, but basically a campaign of lies has won. I see nothing to celebrate there.
I may be wrong but there are objective, factually-based reasons why I think this is the wrong decision.
How can I possibly be happy about it? How will those who voted for it and won't get what they voted for react?
This is the problem.
AFZ
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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by alienfromzog:
I don't think a second referendum is a realistic possibility but the democratic problem is no one is going to get what they voted for.
48% of us voted to stay. They won't get that.
Of the 52% they voted for lots of reasons such as
- A reduction in immigration (unlikely to actually happen)
- More money for the NHS (Not going to happen)
- A stronger economy (No)
- More control (Not likely)
A bit of a category error here. On the one hand you talk about the bare result. On the other hand you talk about the anticipated consequences of the result.
I do also find it quite interesting that, depending on who you ask, a vote to Leave simultaneously won't achieve anything and is the greatest disaster to befall the UK in several generations.
Also, I'm not asking anyone to be happy about the referendum result. But there's a difference between being unhappy and proposing various means of deliberately sabotaging the expressed will of the British voting public.
[ 28. June 2016, 14:22: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Okay, sure, they're not all a bed of roses, but do you shrink in horror at how calamitous Norway is? Switzerland? Canada? Australia?
The first two of which are in the EEA (and as part of that accept free movement), and the second two didn't just decide to throw all their trade agreements in the air and start again.
Besides, there are important psychological differences between never being part of an organisation, and being part of something and then deciding to quit overnight.
Overnight?
I'm sorry, was my news media not full of this thing for months? That makes about as much sense as saying that the Olympics are organised overnight. Sure, the opening ceremony happens on a particular night, but we all knew about it for a long time beforehand.
For fuck's sake, it is the hyperbole I am irritated by, and this thread regularly serves up more doses of pathetic childish melodrama to irritate me. I'll stop telling you all off when you start growing the fuck up and behaving like adults.
I know what the EEA is. I know no-one has never left the EU before. And? Tell me something I don't know. Or would you prefer to just shriek in panic at doing something that hasn't been done before?
Right now, I'd say the thing that is most likely to wreck the UK is not a decision to leave the EU, it's a decision to go to water at the prospect of leaving the EU. The inability to cope with the outcome of a vote that was not sprung on anyone 'overnight' is going to do worse damage than anything else.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
It's sore losing on a colossal scale
You’re missing something important though. We lost the referendum to ourselves. I think that’s the reason many of us couldn’t quite believe this would ever happen. We just couldn’t accept that we the British people could really be that racist and thick. I’m still staggered by it. Good grief, how do you get nineteen million people to act so completely against their own best interests while simultaneously trying to be totally selfish??
The reason many of us are so upset is the humiliation of knowing that we are citizens of demonstrably the most stupid nation in the world. It stings. I personally don’t think another referendum is a good idea, but I kind of understand it. People want another go at proving that we’re not that kind of country.
So, I guess prior to this vote, you figured that all the people who bought the Sun, the Daily Mail, and the Telegraph were just doing so to have a good laugh at how stupid those papers were?
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Okay, sure, they're not all a bed of roses, but do you shrink in horror at how calamitous Norway is? Switzerland? Canada? Australia?
Yes, but they didn't just arrive in that state as the result of a xenophobic campaign which it would be charitable to describe as dishonest.
Clearly not everyone who voted to Leave was xenophobic and racist. Equally clearly, Leave only went ahead in the polls once they started playing the racist and xenophobic card unashamedly.
Oh, and one of the Remain campaigners was assassinated.
Australian history had plenty of xenophobia and racism. Parts of Canadian history as well I believe. The Swiss told everyone to stay the hell away. Norway? Probably just too cold.
Again, all I'm hearing is this wild flailing as if one vote on one day has determined the entire fate of the UK to the extent that you've all been reduced to helplessness. That you can't possibly be a prosperous country now without Brussels. That some switch has been flicked and everything has gone from great to dismal like it's the book of Job.
You don't want to see that life outside the EU is possible, you want to snivel on the ground and say that the world is ruined and come up with reasons why you're doomed.
As for the assassination, with all due respect to a woman whom I admire from what little I know about her, are you seriously arguing that the entire prosperity of the UK is determined by her death? If anything I would have thought the circumstances would have aided the Remain campaign. If that's your idea of arguing why you can't possibly be a functioning highly developed country outside the EU, then I'll respond by pointing out we had a Prime Minister disappear once and another one sacked by the Governor-General. By your logic, those blows ought to have been enough to send us back to subsistence farming.
[ 28. June 2016, 14:42: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
I ended up with a wry smile on my face after reading this part of the Guardian's analysis of England's loss to Iceland in the football. Italics for emphasis are mine.
quote:
4) In times of crisis the naivety is exposed
Just as disappointing was the initial response to Ragnar Sigurdsson’s equaliser. As soon as England were pegged back they began chasing the game in such frantic fashion that one wondered if they had actually been expecting a walkover and assuming energy alone would be enough to prevail. This was a team exposed as wide-eyed and desperate as their attacks broke down so often upon organised, rugged defence. There was a desperation to the approach and a distinct lack of composure, a failing Hodgson attempted to address at the break, to little effect, with Jack Wilshere’s introduction. Certainly chasing the game with anxiety on the rise did little for players whose confidence has been suddenly so brittle. Sterling won the early penalty but was sacrificed before the hour-mark. Kane’s touch has deserted him and Alli snatched at opportunities and even tumbled dubiously in search of a penalty. This was a brutal education.
The journalist is talking about the English team, but so much of this reflects my perception of the Remain supporters.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Did you see the voting Margin, orfeo? A damn lot of people exercised their vote to Remain. And now the people who have control of government with less oversight are the same who've been working against their interests all along.
And those who voted Leave didn't even do so in their own best interest.
This should have been nipped in the bud, or at least better managed and planned from the outset. The public should have demanded this be so.
But this is not how the electorate work. Not in the UK, US or Australia. The bulk of people don't give enough of a shit to be informed or care unless it negatively affects them.
So, those of us who do pay attention, those of us who work to educate others, those of us who care about our countries as a whole; we have a right to complain. We have a reason to be frustrated.
Whoever programmed your AI did a fairly decent job, but s/he did get the outrage module wrong. Or perhaps there is a bug, you might want to get that serviced.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
I know what the EEA is.
So fuck off with your inaccurate comparisons.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
Gloat at a distance and be satisfied. What is your beef? Why the contempt? If we were Leave supporters desperately trying to escape from the consequences of our own actions that would be one thing. Trying to avoid being shafted by fellow countrymen who shouldn't be trusted with anything sharper than a plastic teaspoon is perfectly legitimate.
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
You’re still missing the point. I personally am not nearly so badly off as many people. I’m sitting pretty. I have the option of throwing my lot in with our age-old enemies the French and intend to avail myself of it. This is not all that catastrophic for me. Indeed, my holidays in London are about to get a whole lot cheaper.
That still doesn’t stop me feeling deeply upset about what my country’s become, because like most people I feel quite attached to my country. Xenophobic bigotry is all over the place these days, as I remarked in Hell a while back. Nonetheless, it’s thoroughly humiliating to see the UK become the first Western democracy to make a monumentally stupid far-reaching electoral decision on the back of it. I wanted us to be better than that. This is not about how it hurts me, because it doesn’t, particularly. (It does hurt people I care about, notably many of my fellow expats who have been right royally thrown under the Brexit bus.)
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Did you see the voting Margin, orfeo?
Yes. Did you see the margin in most elections?
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
I know what the EEA is.
So fuck off with your inaccurate comparisons.
Tell me what's inaccurate about it. Some of the best countries in the world to live in are not in the EU. That includes countries that could very readily be in the EU. Not being in the EU is clearly no barrier to being in the EEA.
Switzerland is not in the EEA, by the way, so before telling me to fuck off with "inaccurate" comparisons, you should do your own homework.
Switzerland is in EFTA. Like the UK used to be.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Whoever programmed your AI did a fairly decent job, but s/he did get the outrage module wrong. Or perhaps there is a bug, you might want to get that serviced.
This does read rather like code for "goodness me orfeo, stop thinking for yourself and fall into line with the social media zeitgeist".
It's the inability to conceive that other people think differently that got the shocked supporters of the Remain campaign in this pickle in the first place. They were so sure of the rightness of their position, they couldn't conceive of losing.
Again: I'm not telling anyone to be happy about the result. What I am saying is that there are ways to lose with some dignity and many Remain supporters are throwing those away in order to have tantrums. Plotting to overturn the result of the referendum is based on nothing more than being upset that people didn't exercise their right to vote in the "correct" fashion.
And that's pretty damn frightening. It leads to elections where the party in power refuses to concede defeat. It leads to elections with only one officially approved candidate. I think I'm perfectly within my rights to be upset, outraged even, that there are Remain supporters loudly advocating steps in the direction of saying that a vote is only acceptable if it produces the pre-planned "correct" outcome.
[ 28. June 2016, 16:55: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
I know what the EEA is.
So fuck off with your inaccurate comparisons.
Tell me what's inaccurate about it. Some of the best countries in the world to live in are not in the EU. That includes countries that could very readily be in the EU. Not being in the EU is clearly no barrier to being in the EEA.
Switzerland is not in the EEA, by the way, so before telling me to fuck off with "inaccurate" comparisons, you should do your own homework.
Switzerland is in EFTA. Like the UK used to be.
It's not in the EEA but there are any number of agreements that say "The EEA plus Switzerland". I'll bet that phrase is only there when the Swiss choose it to be too, but the UK won't have the political or economic clout to be so selective. Not any more.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I'll bet that phrase is only there when the Swiss choose it to be too, but the UK won't have the political or economic clout to be so selective. Not any more.
So let me get this straight. You believe that Switzerland has more clout than the UK.
Keep drinking the Kool-Aid everybody. The crisis of confidence is developing nicely.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I'll bet that phrase is only there when the Swiss choose it to be too, but the UK won't have the political or economic clout to be so selective. Not any more.
So let me get this straight. You believe that Switzerland has more clout than the UK.
Keep drinking the Kool-Aid everybody. The crisis of confidence is developing nicely.
Since Friday morning Switzerland hasn't needed very much clout to have more clout than the UK.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Tell me what's inaccurate about it. Some of the best countries in the world to live in are not in the EU. That includes countries that could very readily be in the EU. Not being in the EU is clearly no barrier to being in the EEA.
Because it becomes increasingly less likely with every passing day that the UK is going to be in either the EEA or EFTA.
All of those countries are either in regional trading blocks, or have worked hard over the years to draw up numerous bilateral agreements - the UK will be in a Year Zero situation due to the actions of a number of selfish individuals. It's fixable over time, but in the meantime there will be a huge cost in human suffering.
If you want to breeze in and shit everywhere because you think it's all an exercise in mawkish sentimentality then fuck off.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
The UK will not be in a Year Zero situation. Several decades of history is not miraculously erased from the history books. All of the trading that currently exists between the UK and other countries will not evaporate, for the simple reason that businesses quite like trading with existing customers and will continue to do it where possible.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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