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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Bloody Brexiteers
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Also I quite liked the idea that more money could be spent on the NHS.
This one puzzles me. Why would one trust this promise as it was given by the very people who would dismantle th NHS? It is like the Three Little Pigs buying home security systems from the Big Bad Wolf.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Yes, but I didn't realize that at first.
I suspect the same was true for a lot of people who tend not to take a close interest in politics. It wasn't until I started looking more closely at it that I realized things weren't going to pan out as promised.
It was a horrible campaign on both sides anyway which left a lot of people feeling disillusioned. Boris's side was the one that seemed to offer hope and change, while Cameron's just promised more of the same and "don't you DARE vote Leave or the sky will fall in". Certainly amongst the people I talked to we were all getting quite sick of the campaign long before it ended and not wanting to hear any more doom and gloom.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Cameron's just promised more of the same and "don't you DARE vote Leave or the sky will fall in". Certainly amongst the people I talked to we were all getting quite sick of the campaign long before it ended and not wanting to hear any more doom and gloom.
Alec salmond put it that way too on the night of the count. And he should know a thing or two about campaigning having come close with Scottish Independence.
Campaigning for things to remain as they were, knowing the level of discontent among voters, was a recipe for defeat.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Campaigning for things to remain as they were, knowing the level of discontent among voters, was a recipe for defeat.
I think the biggest mistake was to assume that the vote would concentrate on issues relating to the EU. A very large proportion of discontent in the UK has nothing to do with the EU - lack of funding for the NHS, schools, housing, welfare reforms, the "bedroom tax", etc. Add to that a whole load of discontent with the political system - millions marching against a war in Iraq, and the war then going ahead anyway, MPs salaries and expenses, a large number of people in safe seats feeling their vote is worthless, even in marginals a feeling that the candidates are all as bad as each other, a general disconnect between politicians and the people they're supposed to represent.
The referendum gave people who have never felt they had a political voice a say, and they basically said "fuck you" to the political system that had never seemed to take-up their concerns. The arguments for or against the EU are secondary in that situation, it's simply that the Government and Opposition are campaigning to Remain - therefore the protest against the whole UK system is to vote Leave.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
Thing is, though, the Leave plan apparently WAS detailed enough for the 52% who voted for that option, otherwise they wouldn't have voted that way.
OK, go and run a survey. Ask the 52% what they voted for, and find out if there is an identifiable detailed plan for Brexit there. Did all 52%, for example, vote for significant reductions in immigration? Did they all vote for remaining in a free trade area with the rest of the EU? Did they vote for £350m per week to be spent on the NHS?
I didn't say the voters were well-informed in absolute terms. I said the Leave plan was "detailed enough for them".
If you listened to the Leave arguments, and thought that there was something missing, or that some of the points were over-simplified, or sound good on paper but wouldn't work in real life, and if these shortcomings were dire enough to make a Leave victory seem like a disquieting prospect, then you should have voted Remain. But if you voted Leave, we can assume that you viewed the arguments as satisfactory, or at least not as bad as the Remain arguments.
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
I didn't say the voters were well-informed in absolute terms. I said the Leave plan was "detailed enough for them".
They were not informed on any terms. There were some arguments with the potential to have validity, but I'd be shocked if you found 5% of the Leavers who understood them.
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Yes, but I didn't realize that at first.
I suspect the same was true for a lot of people who tend not to take a close interest in politics.
And this is why we cannot have nice things.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
[qb]I didn't say the voters were well-informed in absolute terms. I said the Leave plan was "detailed enough for them".
They were not informed on any terms. There were some arguments with the potential to have validity, but I'd be shocked if you found 5% of the Leavers who understood them.
Well, then, apparently, zero accurate information was enough for those voters. Like I said. Enough.
I got this started because the article said that people were "conned". But in a campaign where both sides are openly presenting their arguments to the public, and voters decide that they don't need to pay much attention to any of the arguments, where is the con?
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
The promises about the NHS, for one.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
The promises about the NHS, for one.
But there are dodgy claims made all the time in campaigns, and in an adversarial system, it's the responsibility of the opposing sides to point out what's wrong with the others arguments. Did no one on the Remain side counter the promises made about the NHS?
Or was it that the Leave supporters simply did not care to listen?
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Yes, but I didn't realize that at first.
I suspect the same was true for a lot of people who tend not to take a close interest in politics.
And this is why we cannot have nice things.
Welcome to democracy. Why has it taken people until this vote to figure out how it works?
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
The promises about the NHS, for one.
But there are dodgy claims made all the time in campaigns, and in an adversarial system, it's the responsibility of the opposing sides to point out what's wrong with the others arguments. Did no one on the Remain side counter the promises made about the NHS?
Or was it that the Leave supporters simply did not care to listen?
Can't see how that makes a con not a con. You're basically saying if people fall for a con, it must not have been a con.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
And this is why we cannot have nice things.
...? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
[qb]I didn't say the voters were well-informed in absolute terms. I said the Leave plan was "detailed enough for them".
They were not informed on any terms. There were some arguments with the potential to have validity, but I'd be shocked if you found 5% of the Leavers who understood them.
Well, then, apparently, zero accurate information was enough for those voters. Like I said. Enough.
I got this started because the article said that people were "conned". But in a campaign where both sides are openly presenting their arguments to the public, and voters decide that they don't need to pay much attention to any of the arguments, where is the con?
The main attractions of the "Leave" campaign, apart from the opportunity to give the political establishment a kick up the arse, were a) Sovereignty and b) Better border controls while c) retaining the trading relationship with the EU/EEA.
These haven't been tested one way or the other yet as there will be at lest two years of negotiations, but it's my belief that we don't stand a cat in hell's chance of getting a) + b) + c), or anything remotely like it. An awful lot of Leave voters really thought, and I believe still think, that Britain can keep the trading links while discarding the other obligations that the single market entails, such as those involving employment. I don't think the Leave leadership ever thought Britain could get all or even most of that, which explains why scum like Farage aren't hanging around for the hard work.
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
And this is why we cannot have nice things.
The point being that to have nice things we have to have the emotional, conceptual and intellectual tools needed to deal with them. The decision to leave the EU demonstrates the capacity of one who has to be restricted to smooth-edged plastic utensils on all three grounds.
It is so far beyond stupid, and demonstrates a pathetic level of gullibility on the part of those are, geographically and by custom, my fellow citizens. This is the level which is driving a desire to enquire about hitching my wagon elsewhere. I don't want fellow citizens who are this stupid.
There, I said it. As the sig says, still angry as fuck.
[ 10. July 2016, 15:13: Message edited by: ThunderBunk ]
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
And this is why we cannot have nice things.
...?
When people can't be arsed to understand the decisions being made which affect their future, it is inevitable that those making the decisions will not consider the people's benefit.
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
The promises about the NHS, for one.
But there are dodgy claims made all the time in campaigns, and in an adversarial system, it's the responsibility of the opposing sides to point out what's wrong with the others arguments. Did no one on the Remain side counter the promises made about the NHS?
Or was it that the Leave supporters simply did not care to listen?
Can't see how that makes a con not a con. You're basically saying if people fall for a con, it must not have been a con.
A confidence scheme is a deliberate attempt at deception to convince the mark to ignore their own interest in the favour of the con artist. The quality of the con is irrelevant to categorising it as such.
Cannot see how the Leave campaign was anything except a con.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
It is so far beyond stupid, and demonstrates a pathetic level of gullibility on the part of those are, geographically and by custom, my fellow citizens. This is the level which is driving a desire to enquire about hitching my wagon elsewhere. I don't want fellow citizens who are this stupid.
Wherever you go there are always going to be an element of people who are like this. If you're looking for a country with a sizeable majority of well-educated, politically literate, sensibly behaved citizens you're going to be looking in vain. I can't think of anywhere that fits that description. The EU countries wouldn't have voted our way because continental Europe perceives the EU differently - less as an oppressor and more as a benefactor. Some of that is tied to having been part of continental Europe, with all its wars and conquests and invasions, now largely prevented by membership of the EU. It doesn't mean that a class of politically illiterate people doesn't exist in these countries.
Also, the far right seems to be on the increase in quite a lot of places. As edginess increases so too will the boundaries of what the far right consider "acceptable". The visibly different, then the audibly different, then people from neighbouring countries or even provinces. If you're thinking of relocating, think ahead.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
The promises about the NHS, for one.
But there are dodgy claims made all the time in campaigns, and in an adversarial system, it's the responsibility of the opposing sides to point out what's wrong with the others arguments. Did no one on the Remain side counter the promises made about the NHS?
Or was it that the Leave supporters simply did not care to listen?
Can't see how that makes a con not a con. You're basically saying if people fall for a con, it must not have been a con.
Well, I guess it might tenchnically qualify as a con. But I would say that the moral import of a con is pretty close to negligible if it takes place within the parameters of an adversarial system, in which it is understood that both sides will be presenting their claims to the public, and critiquing those of the other side.
I mean, for example, the people who voted against Obama because they thought he was born in Kenya, even though there was ample evidence presented right from the beginning that he was born in the USA. Would you really consider them to be victims of a con in any morally meaningful way?
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
And this is why we cannot have nice things.
...?
When people can't be arsed to understand the decisions being made which affect their future, it is inevitable that those making the decisions will not consider the people's benefit.
Thanks for the explanation. Google said it was an internet meme used when someone is considered to be derailing a thread, which didn't quite fit.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
I had long and interesting conversation with a friend of mine who has learning difficulties & asd who voted leave.
He had asked some of his friends with degrees in politics to explain the issues to him, and he had watched either a debate or an interview on Sky about the vote. (Difficult to tell from his description.). What had stuck with him, was that he didn't think the stay person answered the questions they were asked.
He thought more immigration would bring more violence, based on a family member having been shot abroad. He thought that at least if we left, if we failed at stuff it would be us making the choices - he quoted taking back control.
Unfortunately, many of the things he wanted to be different had nothing to do with the EU. (E.g. The release dates for Pokemon Go.)
He hadn't really thought about how the country would work after the vote or who would be in charge - he didn't really know who the key players were. He felt politicians didn't know what they are doing and maybe it would be better if the Queen ran the country, with some experts to help her. Or some other new person.
He remains optimistic about the decision, because things are better for his family since the vote - as this week his mum was able to buy 3 weeks worth of food from tescos for the amount she usually spends on one.
I have to admit, he did more active research about his vote than I would have guessed. Ultimately, if you disect his reasons they come down to gut instinct, distrust of politicians, fear of terrorism, and absorbing a simple message oft repeated.
But. He did not know what the EU actually does - and he is likely to be totally stuffed by the next government - as he struggles to find employment due to his disabilities.
(On further discussion he'd rather have May than Leadson because he believes in gay rights. I can also tell you with some certainty he is not racist.)
[ 10. July 2016, 15:58: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
[QUOTE] Google said it was an internet meme used when someone is considered to be derailing a thread, which didn't quite fit.
Urban dictionary says it's used when somebody ruins something you had that was good, eg. a child knocking an antique vase off the table. I guess that, applied to internet threads, it means the person who derailed the thread has wrecked a nice thing.
I'd imagine it was something that was said once by an adult to a child on a TV show or something, and took off from there.
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Want to add, I am really pleased my friend voted. I hope he stays engaged with politics, and continues to find people help him understand the issues at stake.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
I mean, for example, the people who voted against Obama because they thought he was born in Kenya, even though there was ample evidence presented right from the beginning that he was born in the USA. Would you really consider them to be victims of a con in any morally meaningful way?
Yes. Part of the con was explaining away the evidence.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
The referendum gave people who have never felt they had a political voice a say, and they basically said "fuck you" to the political system that had never seemed to take-up their concerns. The arguments for or against the EU are secondary in that situation, it's simply that the Government and Opposition are campaigning to Remain - therefore the protest against the whole UK system is to vote Leave.
I agree with that analysis
There was always a Leave hardcore, 30% maybe less, who were going to vote for Out come hell or high water. Cameron hoped against hope that he could sway that crucial section of floaters. Common opinion is he used too much stick and not enough carrot, but given the level of dissatisfaction evident at last year's General it could be that even a carrot shower would not have worked.
What's done is done. Now we await M. Theresa with her healing balm. The knife-wielders will no doubt reappear when they feel the time is right.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Did Tory MPs vote for Leadsome as a no-hoper candidate just to knock Gove out of the race? Then, job done she decides she doesn't want the job after all. Which gives us a Remain campaigner (admittedly not a very prominant one) in No. 10. We might as well have kept Cameron.
I'm getting really fed up with all these games being played by the Tory Party at our expense. It's a ridiculous shambles. And, Labour aren't being any more mature, with their own silly little games.
Can we just sack the lot of them and start over? Please?
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I think that's very short-sighted. A newly minted right-wing government will work wonders, and all signs of blood and massacre will be cleaned away. It's a brave new Britannia, sorry, I mean England!
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
With leadsom stepping aside at lunchtime an ugly jostling for Power in the Tory camp has been avoided. I would say Plan B, (the outcome of a Leave Victory), has now landed safely .
A 2020 Election will be best for all concerned. Not least for Labour who look like needing good long while to get their shit together in order to mount something that resembles an effective challenge.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
A 2020 Election will be best for all concerned. Not least for Labour who look like needing good long while to get their shit together in order to mount something that resembles an effective challenge.
Yes, it will probably take them the best part of 4 years to get Corbyn out at this rate.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Corbyn's major sin is that he is not slick enough for most people. But the Damn fool Tory's that got this mess going are, so what does that tell you?
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Al Eluia:
I see that May has chosen Boris Johnson to be Foreign Secretary. With him in charge of your diplomacy, all I can say is, Good luck! It seems like a move calculated to make the rest of the EU say to the UK, "Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" - as we say in the US.
Thankfully, most of the sharp implements are in other people's hands. David Davis has been appointed to deal with the EU, and our esteemed Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs has other deputies, including hopefully a minister for hiding the best Sabatier knives when his boss comes into the room, lest there be blood all over the floor - probably mostly Boris's, but still.....
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Do you think this might be a, give him enough rope to hang himself, type posting ?
She gives him a major office of state, he cocks it up by massively offending an ally - she fires him and he's never a serious contender for cabinet again ?
And no one can claim he didn't get his chance.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
A 2020 Election will be best for all concerned. Not least for Labour who look like needing good long while to get their shit together in order to mount something that resembles an effective challenge.
Yes, it will probably take them the best part of 4 years to get Corbyn out at this rate.
This is an interesting article which suggests that Theresa May would be wrong to call a snap election. She'd win it massively, but: "This is the mother of temptations for any PM. Only a potentially great one would resist it on the grounds that a one-party state – a state literally with only one relevant party, and no trace of a functional opposition on the horizon – is an abomination to a true democrat of any political persuasion".
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Do you think this might be a, give him enough rope to hang himself, type posting ?
She gives him a major office of state, he cocks it up by massively offending an ally - she fires him and he's never a serious contender for cabinet again ?
And no one can claim he didn't get his chance.
Yes, that could be part of it. I think it's actually quite clever on several levels. Boris gets to do what he’s best at, float around meeting people at cocktail parties and turning the sunny charm on. He’ll be out and about a lot so not on the ground that much. He gets a prominent post in the new Cabinet, which will please the people who voted for him (in the sense that he was mostly the face of Leave) and wanted to see him as PM. He gets something to keep him occupied instead of potentially sitting there making his own plans. And last but not least, he’s also going to have to face up to the consequences of his actions and meet a few people in person he’s been rude about. Possibly Erdogan and Obama, for starters, in the months to come.
And if he does screw this up, he is well and truly discredited for a long time. Smart move IMO.
[ 14. July 2016, 07:44: Message edited by: Ariel ]
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
And, our national standing with other nations is already wrecked by the vote to leave the EU. So, it would take a lot of effort for Boris to make things worse.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Oh, he could probably manage to do that with his eyes shut ... ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
Actually, it could prove to be a canny move. It means he's under May's thumb, rather than stirring up trouble on the back benches; it's a clear sop to the Brexiteers; and - despite his buffoonery - we all know that Boris is not at all deficient in the brain department. I don't warm to the man at all, but he may turn out better at this than we expect. (Or so I fervently hope).
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Ricky Gervais on BJ: "Phew! Just when Britain was starting to become a laughing stock around the world, Boris Johnson is appointed foreign secretary".
Robert Peston on BJ: "Given what Boris Johnson recently said about the corrupt elite of EU, presumably he will be a foreign sec. prohibited from crossing the Channel".
[ 14. July 2016, 08:17: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
I'm still trying to work out which fields his competency lies in. Because he seems to have risen to high office on naught but a wave of delusion.
Flashman. That's who he is. Flashman.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Do you think this might be a, give him enough rope to hang himself, type posting ?
She gives him a major office of state, he cocks it up by massively offending an ally - she fires him and he's never a serious contender for cabinet again ?
And no one can claim he didn't get his chance.
Yes, that could be part of it. I think it's actually quite clever on several levels. Boris gets to do what he’s best at, float around meeting people at cocktail parties and turning the sunny charm on.
This is exactly it. All that he's expected to do is know which knife and fork to use and know that Gazpacho soup is served cold.
[ 14. July 2016, 09:02: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Oh, he could probably manage to do that with his eyes shut ...
Actually, it could prove to be a canny move. It means he's under May's thumb, rather than stirring up trouble on the back benches; it's a clear sop to the Brexiteers; and - despite his buffoonery - we all know that Boris is not at all deficient in the brain department. I don't warm to the man at all, but he may turn out better at this than we expect. (Or so I fervently hope).
True. And he'll be busy travelling alot so won't be in May's hair ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) The FO has been massively scaled back over the years. Foriegn Aid is done elsewhere, Brexit and Trade are being handled by other people and, if there's a real crisis, May would handle it. All Boris has to do really is hand about the chocolates ...
That said, it's a surprising appointment given the amount of slagging off he's done of foreigners of late. I'm sure the US are thrilled and he's loathed by the EU.
I wonder if Gove's been sacked yet ...
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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Stejjie
Shipmate
# 13941
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
I wonder if Gove's been sacked yet ...
Tubbs
Yes, apparently!!
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A not particularly-alt-worshippy, fairly mainstream, mildly evangelical, vaguely post-modern-ish Baptist
Posts: 1117 | From: Urmston, Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2008
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stejjie:
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
I wonder if Gove's been sacked yet ...
Tubbs
Yes, apparently!!
Yay! And Nicky Morgan too ... ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif) I wonder what job the wannabe mother of the nation is going to get? If any ...
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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Stephen
Shipmate
# 40
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Oh, he could probably manage to do that with his eyes shut ...
Actually, it could prove to be a canny move. It means he's under May's thumb, rather than stirring up trouble on the back benches; it's a clear sop to the Brexiteers; and - despite his buffoonery - we all know that Boris is not at all deficient in the brain department. I don't warm to the man at all, but he may turn out better at this than we expect. (Or so I fervently hope).
True. And he'll be busy travelling alot so won't be in May's hair The FO has been massively scaled back over the years. Foriegn Aid is done elsewhere, Brexit and Trade are being handled by other people and, if there's a real crisis, May would handle it. All Boris has to do really is hand about the chocolates ...
That said, it's a surprising appointment given the amount of slagging off he's done of foreigners of late. I'm sure the US are thrilled and he's loathed by the EU.
Tubbs
What she's done Tubbs is to give him even more capacity to put on weight as he does the rounds of the world's capitals - after all he seems to have a lot to apologise for. He'll probably eat so much he'll explode.
Of course that could be Teresa's Grand Design.....
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Best Wishes
Stephen
'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10
Posts: 3954 | From: Alto C Clef Country | Registered: May 2001
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
quote:
Originally posted by Stejjie:
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
I wonder if Gove's been sacked yet ...
Tubbs
Yes, apparently!!
Yay! And Nicky Morgan too ... I wonder what job the wannabe mother of the nation is going to get? If any ...
Tubbs
I'm betting on Health.
Can the Leader of the Opposition in the Scottish Parliament also hold a Cabinet position and a peerage? Asking for a friend.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Oh, he could probably manage to do that with his eyes shut ...
Actually, it could prove to be a canny move. It means he's under May's thumb, rather than stirring up trouble on the back benches; it's a clear sop to the Brexiteers; and - despite his buffoonery - we all know that Boris is not at all deficient in the brain department. I don't warm to the man at all, but he may turn out better at this than we expect. (Or so I fervently hope).
True. And he'll be busy travelling alot so won't be in May's hair The FO has been massively scaled back over the years. Foriegn Aid is done elsewhere, Brexit and Trade are being handled by other people and, if there's a real crisis, May would handle it. All Boris has to do really is hand about the chocolates ...
That said, it's a surprising appointment given the amount of slagging off he's done of foreigners of late. I'm sure the US are thrilled and he's loathed by the EU.
Tubbs
What she's done Tubbs is to give him even more capacity to put on weight as he does the rounds of the world's capitals - after all he seems to have a lot to apologise for. He'll probably eat so much he'll explode.
Of course that could be Teresa's Grand Design.....
I hadn't thought of that, but it is a possiblity ... ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Loved this comment from the Turkish Prime Minister on BBC Live (internet) earlier.
"Asked what he would like to say to Mr Johnson (who has Turkish ancestry), he said: 'May God help him and reform him and I hope he won't make any more mistakes and tries to make it up with the Turks.'"
Indeed.
[ 14. July 2016, 10:55: Message edited by: Ariel ]
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
All Boris has to do really is hand about the chocolates ...
Ferrero Rocher, or are they beneath him?
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
A lot of bling and pazzaz, and all the promises of the ad-men. But, under the gold foil wrapper just a rather ordinary second-rate confectionary and very disappointing.
Sounds perfectly suited to anyone on the Leave campaign.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Leadsom to DEFRA. So she's the one who will have to explain to farmers about how the subsidies from the CAP will come to an end and that the recession means that the Government won't be able to replace them.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
A lot of bling and pazzaz, and all the promises of the ad-men. But, under the gold foil wrapper just a rather ordinary second-rate confectionary and very disappointing.
Sounds perfectly suited to anyone on the Leave campaign.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
There is an element of "You broke it, you fix it or pay for it" in some of the appointments. The only one I really don't understand is Johnson. I mean, here is a map of all the places that Boris has insulted.
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
May is giving him the chance to complete the map? Look at South America, he's barely touched it. Interesting that they chose red to colour the map
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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