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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Bloody Brexiteers
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
In the case of a Brexit vote, Mrs B and I are thinking of "emigrating" to an independent Scotland as soon as family commitments permit. One option would be to find somewhere to live on Mull and provide a holiday haven for children and grandchildren. They would enjoy the eagles, sea eagles, otters and friendly folk. So would we, even in the winter.
Wow! That is a brilliant idea. Include a holiday cottage and we'll be your first guests
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
Posted by Mr Cheesy:
quote:
Irish people are free to live (and unusually vote in GE and the Referendum) in the UK, which must be due to a bilateral relationship between Eire and the UK rather than with the EU. The Commonwealth relationship is a bit stranger, but they also can vote in the current referendum at least.
Irish people being able to move to and live in the UK has more to do with the division of the island more than anything else. I guess it's down to historical anomaly, but they could still do it under the EU.
Irish citizens can't vote in your referendum unless they have been living in the UK for over five years. British citizens living in Ireland can vote in the UK referendum if they have lived in Ireland for under five years (or have an address/permanent residence in the UK). Where it might get complicated is where Irish citizens might be able to vote if they lived in Northern Ireland for a time and retained their dual citizenship. I'm not actually sure what happens in that instance.
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
Any concept that needs a portmanteau words like 'Brexit' to label it, is surely bound to be a shit idea?! Mind you, it does sound like one of those fibre-filled cereals that keeps you regular.
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
Any concept that needs a portmanteau words like 'Brexit' to label it, is surely bound to be a shit idea?!
I've also heard 'Bremain' doing the rounds...
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
Irish people being able to move to and live in the UK has more to do with the division of the island more than anything else. I guess it's down to historical anomaly, but they could still do it under the EU.
Technically EU citizens can only stay in the UK if they're working. I believe that the status of Irish citizens is not restricted by work. I could be wrong on that, but the status of citizens of the Irish Republic in the UK seem to be different to citizens of other EU states.
quote:
Irish citizens can't vote in your referendum unless they have been living in the UK for over five years. British citizens living in Ireland can vote in the UK referendum if they have lived in Ireland for under five years (or have an address/permanent residence in the UK). Where it might get complicated is where Irish citizens might be able to vote if they lived in Northern Ireland for a time and retained their dual citizenship. I'm not actually sure what happens in that instance.
Again, this seems to be different to other EU citizens, who cannot vote however long they've lived in the UK unless they've taken UK citizenship.
Australians and other Commonwealth country residents can also vote (possibly also after 5 years of residency, I'm not sure).
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arse
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
According to my EU referendum voting guide (which I have in front of me) you can vote in the referendum if you are:
A British or Irish citizen living in the UK, or
a Commonwealth citizen living in the UK who has leave to remain in the UK or who does require leave to remain in the UK, or
a British citizen living overseas who has been registered to vote in the UK in the last 15 years.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nightlamp:
The campaign in the press is between two of the most powerful organisations in the Country:
One hand we have the Conservative party fighting hard for remain.
On the other hand we have the conservative party fighting for leave.
From June 24th a campaign will begin to keep the Conservative party and therefore the Conservative government, in one piece, even though it may need a new leader.
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
The five year thing comes from the papers sent to people here in Ireland where it specifies this to be the condition of casting a vote. I didn't get one myself, but I've seen the papers others have posted as pics on Facebook. I've no idea why five is the magic number, although one Facebook post seemed to suggest it was changing; or perhaps was a recent change?
Edited to add:
Just in case there was confusion in previous posts I'm talking about British citizens living in the Republic of Ireland. Irish citizens don't have a vote. Well, as far as I know we don't. If we did, that would be a little weird.
[ 07. June 2016, 23:07: Message edited by: fletcher christian ]
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
My recollection is that Irish citizens can vote generally in UK elections, at least for Westminster seats. A strange hangover from the Home Rule legislation and making allowance for the large numbers of southern Irish working there.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
My recollection is that Irish citizens can vote generally in UK elections, at least for Westminster seats.
I think that's right - my understanding was that it was also reciprocal. Irish citizens can also join the UK armed forces as though they were UK citizens. I served with many - usually got statements (when asked why they hadn't joined the Irish navy) of "have you seen the Irish navy?", etc.
At one point (IIRC, and excluding the Ulster Defence Regiment) there were more citizens of the Irish Republic in the UK armed forces than there were citizens of Norn Iron in the UK armed forces. Again, I'd understood that that was reciprocal - I certainly know one or two that transferred to the Irish Naval Service with no Irish connections.
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And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
I think that's right - my understanding was that it was also reciprocal. Irish citizens can also join the UK armed forces as though they were UK citizens. I served with many - usually got statements (when asked why they hadn't joined the Irish navy) of "have you seen the Irish navy?", etc.
And not just in the British military either - often public sector jobs in the UK state the categories of people who can apply (including, randomly, in the security services) always include people with Irish passports.
I have no idea whether the reverse is also true.
quote:
At one point (IIRC, and excluding the Ulster Defence Regiment) there were more citizens of the Irish Republic in the UK armed forces than there were citizens of Norn Iron in the UK armed forces. Again, I'd understood that that was reciprocal - I certainly know one or two that transferred to the Irish Naval Service with no Irish connections.
My observation is that the North tends to attract polarised views - those people I've met from the Irish Republic seem relatively unconcerned about the British occupation of the North. Of course, that might be related to the fact that I've met them in the UK - no doubt there are people with more fundamentalist views in the Republic.
I remember talking to one Irish man who was saying that the EU basically took the rug from under the feet of the Republicans. People from the North could live and work in the South and vice-versa. Irish people could move to wherever there was work, which was often to the UK.
Given the economic downturn, this guy said, making the North part of the Republic would either make no difference or reduce their standard of living.
Of course, that's not to downplay the significant divisions between communities in the North, just to say that it is possible that the EU has merged things to the extent that being part of the UK verses part of Eire is less of an obvious political position as both states are inside the EU.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
Any concept that needs a portmanteau words like 'Brexit' to label it, is surely bound to be a shit idea?!
After last week's public debate in our church, people were hanging around in the church for ages. Our caretaker wanted to switch off the lights, lock the doors and go home.
Eventually I told folk that the time for REMAINING had passed and that it was now time to LEAVE. A Vicar immediately christened this "Chexit" (Church Exit) and we all laughed - and left!
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I remember talking to one Irish man who was saying that the EU basically took the rug from under the feet of the Republicans. People from the North could live and work in the South and vice-versa. Irish people could move to wherever there was work, which was often to the UK.
Just on a point of order, the EU had nothing to do with that - citizens of the Irish Free State/Eire/Irish Republic* and citizens of the UK have had those reciprocal rights since Home Rule.
*in its various incarnations - I'm not calling the modern Republic the Irish Free State, just making the point that it's been the same arrangement all along the timeline AIUI.
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And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
An interesting point which is being raised by some "Remain" people is that, if Britain comes out of the EU, it will have a land border with the EU across Ireland. Since, at present, British and Irish citizens can move freely across this without even having passports, this would provide an easy "back door" for illegal migrants travelling from Europe via Dublin.
In the early days of the Free State there were customs controls at the border and many roads and rail lines were closed. There were many controls during the Troubles, too. But essentially it's a border which would be hard to defend or close. And any attempt to do so would provoke strong reactions in both Dublin and Belfast.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Just on a point of order, the EU had nothing to do with that - citizens of the Irish Free State/Eire/Irish Republic* and citizens of the UK have had those reciprocal rights since Home Rule.
Yes, exactly the point I was bringing to this discussion! If you look above, we were discussing what would happen in an Indie Scotland Brexit future.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
An interesting point which is being raised by some "Remain" people is that, if Britain comes out of the EU, it will have a land border with the EU across Ireland. Since, at present, British and Irish citizens can move freely across this without even having passports, this would provide an easy "back door" for illegal migrants travelling from Europe via Dublin.
I think this is a bit of an exaggerated point. The main direct route to Eire from Europe is by air. And I'm not sure how attractive Northern Ireland would be for illegal migrants.
I suppose it is possible that EU citizens could fly to Dublin then drive to the North where they could live and work illegally. But I suspect this could be dealt with relatively easily with police checks, immigration raids etc. I'm doubting that it would really be much of a problem.
More of an issue might be the attraction of getting to England, but there is still the ferries and controls there.
Basically I don't think anyone wants to go back to having customs and passport checks in Ireland, so I think it'll remain a free travel zone whatever happens.
quote:
In the early days of the Free State there were customs controls at the border and many roads and rail lines were closed. There were many controls during the Troubles, too. But essentially it's a border which would be hard to defend or close. And any attempt to do so would provoke strong reactions in both Dublin and Belfast.
I've never been quite sure if there was actually a closed border from the 1970s or whether the border was technically "open" with prominent police and army checkpoints. Can anyone tell me?
[ 08. June 2016, 08:24: Message edited by: mr cheesy ]
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arse
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
Posted by Mr Cheesy:
quote:
the EU basically took the rug from under the feet of the Republicans
I presume when you use the term 'Republicans' you are referring to terrorists and those who exist in that rather strange world of hyper nationalism? I hope I'm pointing out the obvious in saying that 'Republicans' would generally be taken to mean 'those who believe in the ideals of a republic' (despite how the BBC might consistently understand the term) which would obviously be something quite different and effect more than just Ireland throughout Europe.
Edited to add:
On the border point: there were checkpoints and a strange sort of zone with hidden army and watch towers. At least, that's what I remember from my childhood.
[ 08. June 2016, 08:30: Message edited by: fletcher christian ]
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
Posted by Mr Cheesy:
I presume when you use the term 'Republicans' you are referring to terrorists and those who exist in that rather strange world of hyper nationalism? I hope I'm pointing out the obvious in saying that 'Republicans' would generally be taken to mean 'those who believe in the ideals of a republic' (despite how the BBC might consistently understand the term) which would obviously be something quite different and effect more than just Ireland throughout Europe.
OK, I'm sorry I meant those who are profoundly against the British up to and including those who go in for violence against all things British.
[ 08. June 2016, 08:33: Message edited by: mr cheesy ]
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
On the border point: there were checkpoints and a strange sort of zone with hidden army and watch towers. At least, that's what I remember from my childhood.
This broadly - although it depends where on the border - "Bandit Country" (South Armagh) got more attention than other areas, and Lough Neagh more than other bits of coastline.
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And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
More of an issue might be the attraction of getting to England, but there is still the ferries and controls there.
I'm not sure how having to go through passport control to get from one part of the UK to another is an improvement over having to go through passport control to get from the Republic to NI. You don't usually even need ID for internal UK ferry travel.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
OTOH, I am very dubious about TTIP, which we would be dragged into if remaining, with its clauses allowing very unelected commercial corporations to ride roughshod over the decisions of elected governments. Presumably backed up by someone's military in the manner of certain states in the Americas and covert action as with others such as Greece and Iran, since their private kangaroo courts would have no powers to enforce decisions if rejected. Only it could be done openly because approved in these treaty laws.
Well if you don't want TTIP the only rational thing is vote IN as TTIP is currently hanging on by a thread with Germany, Greece and France all having cold feet over it. If you vote 'leave' you will have the most pro TTIP government in the EU negotiating with the USA for new trade agreements.
If you don't think leave will mean TTIP you are fooling yourself. Of course it will be different to the current deal as it won't have the watering down that the European Parliament voted for and it won't be liable to get ruled illegal by various European courts.
I agree that voting 'remain' may mean we have TTIP
trade agreement but it is better than a dead cert of having it if we vote 'leave'.
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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001
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Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
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Posted
There will have to be some kind of border controls between NI and Eire if the UK left the EU even if it is just to collect VAT and duty on commercial goods.
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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001
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Ronald Binge
Shipmate
# 9002
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
What are the consequences of Brexit followed by Scindependence and Screadmission? Is it automatic trade and movement barriers between England and Scotland until the UK negotiates something with the whole EU, or can the UK and Scotland make their own side deal as part of independence without involving the rest of the EU?
I don't know. But we do have a bit of history with other former relationships - such as with the Irish Republic and the Commonwealth countries. Of course, an ex-EU relationship would be different, but Irish people are free to live (and unusually vote in GE and the Referendum) in the UK, which must be due to a bilateral relationship between Eire and the UK rather than with the EU. The Commonwealth relationship is a bit stranger, but they also can vote in the current referendum at least.
My guess is that there will continue to be a free trade relationship with the Republic with no borders on the island of Ireland. Because basically it'd be a convoluted thing to take stuff from the UK to the EU via the Republic. Probably not worth trying to control.
I think it'd be highly likely this would also be the trading relationship with an Indie Scotland, which I think would probably remain with Sterling at least in the short term. Again, there are few direct land trading links between Scotland and the rest of the EU, so it probably wouldn't be worth setting up a separate customs zone just for that.
More difficult, I think, would be to work out how exactly Eire and an Indie Scotland could be managed as EU states with a non-EU rUK in the way. Clearly they wouldn't be in Schengen, but how could they be in the EU free trading zone? I'm not sure it would be possible.
Given that this is Hell, and if Brexit does happen with the UK leaving the EEA as well, we have a huge problem locally with the hitherto open border in danger of being restricted.
If we do see a return to check points and closure of minor roads, I cordially invite all the blithe Brexiteers in the south of England to come to Ireland to see a real border. A swift boot in the bollocks from me will be a well earned bonus for such idiots.
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Older, bearded (but no wiser)
Posts: 477 | From: Brexit's frontline | Registered: Jan 2005
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Ronald Binge
Shipmate
# 9002
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nightlamp:
There will have to be some kind of border controls between NI and Eire if the UK left the EU even if it is just to collect VAT and duty on commercial goods.
292 road crossings, mostly small, some great. Any interference in the openness of the Irish border by anyone, be it British, Irish or EU authorities will not be taken lying down. And I'm not an Irish Republican, for fucks sake. If I am angry at the potential for cocking up that Brexit threatens to our way of life up here, imagine the potential for others less moderate than me.
I urge any of you to view this website http://borderlives.eu/ to see what life was like in living memory up here. To say that the Common Travel Area meant that the border was always open before Ireland and the UK were in the EU is gravely mistaken.
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Older, bearded (but no wiser)
Posts: 477 | From: Brexit's frontline | Registered: Jan 2005
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Even if the lunatics take over the assylum and the UK votes to leave the EU, we're not going to see border controls between NI and the Republic. Nor between an independent Scotland and England. Collection of import duties etc is almost entirely done at some point prior to arrival of the goods, and enforcement is mainly based on HMRC investigations of importers. In the last few years flying back from Japan I can't recall the last time I even saw someone at the customs desk at Glasgow airport - although going the other way, Japan still has border controls with everyone filling in forms declaring what they are importing and being questioned by a customs officer. If there are no effective customs controls for people arriving from Japan, we're not going to get them put in for people arriving from Eire or anywhere else in Europe.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nightlamp:
There will have to be some kind of border controls between NI and Eire if the UK left the EU even if it is just to collect VAT and duty on commercial goods.
Wasn't there a pub actually on the border that did excellent cross-border sales? ISTR that smokes were cheaper in the South but some booze was cheaper in the North, so people would walk in, go to the correct counter, and do a deal to their best advantage.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
Aren't you thinking of Spike Milligan's Puckoon?
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nightlamp:
Well if you don't want TTIP the only rational thing is vote IN as TTIP is currently hanging on by a thread with Germany, Greece and France all having cold feet over it. If you vote 'leave' you will have the most pro TTIP government in the EU negotiating with the USA for new trade agreements.
This is what has just tipped the balance for me. I don't want to vote In but my God, look what could happen if you don't.
What an utter shambles this whole campaign thing has turned out to be.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
What an utter shambles this whole campaign thing has turned out to be.
That is an understatement. The crash of the voter registration website, and the subsequent extension of the deadline, strikes me as clearly representative of the whole campaign.
Which is a pity, as it is such an important decision. And the whole campaign is being run by amateur clowns. We are in an idiocracy - ruled by the most incompetent.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
We are in an idiocracy - ruled by the most incompetent.
This goes for the mainstream media as well.
They'd say, "We can only report the news, not drive the agenda." Well, yes, but you get a choice as to where to point your cameras and microphones. Currently, all you seem interested in is the noise coming from the shallow end of the pool.
We're actually interested in more than that, but it seems to make no difference to them.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
We are in an idiocracy - ruled by the most incompetent.
I believe the word you are looking for is
kakistocracy.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
What worries me about this sudden last-minute rush of people wanting to register to vote is that the campaign isn't exactly fresh news. It's been around for weeks and you can't ignore it even if you don't read the papers, watch TV or listen to the radio, because there are posters and reminders everywhere. There's also the annual reminder that comes through the door encouraging you to register, which you can do by phone or text these days so it isn't exactly an arduous procedure.
The people who aren't registered to vote are presumably mostly people who didn't vote in the general election, i.e. they don't normally take an interest in politics. Yet something has galvanized them to vote in the referendum. I suspect there's a strong element of knee-jerk reactions at work here, rather than informed opinion based on careful consideration of the pros and cons for both sides.
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Garasu
Shipmate
# 17152
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Posted
I thought the lack of carefully considered opinions was pretty much why we went for representative democracy rather than direct democracy in the first place?
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"Could I believe in the doctrine without believing in the deity?". - Modesitt, L. E., Jr., 1943- Imager.
Posts: 889 | From: Surrey Heath (England) | Registered: Jun 2012
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I don't know. But either way it's going to be impossible to predict which way this is likely to go.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
We are in an idiocracy - ruled by the most incompetent.
I believe the word you are looking for is
kakistocracy.
I tried to find the right word, but couldn't. Thank you - this is precisely it. We are ruled by a pile of kak.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I tried to find the right word, but couldn't. Thank you - this is precisely it. We are ruled by a pile of kak.
I like the way that link has a little map showing where that form of government is found.
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arse
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
We are ruled by a pile of kak.
Yet here we are. We the proletariat, the seething and humble masses being given a once in a lifetime chance to decide which pile of kak does the ruling.
Providing we want to be ruled and not end up with anarkaky
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Yet here we are. We the proletariat, the seething and humble masses being given a once in a lifetime chance to decide which pile of kak does the ruling.
Providing we want to be ruled and not end up with anarkaky
The problem is not that there are no choices. The problem is that there nothing for which to vote.
At best, we're being expected to vote for the least-worst option. Out of two.
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arse
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Which parallels the situation in the US at the moment too, if that hasn't already been noted. It's not as if the alternative to Trump is universally popular ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
I suspect it only looks that way because Britain has never really had to deal with the sort of rot and collapse that so many other parts of Europe have. Certainly it has been involved in the resulting wars, but it's never really had it from within itself. For those that have had that experience there is an awareness that democracy often hangs by a thin, weak thread and that a Europe together might have a lot more going for it than a Europe divided. I'm not sure there is that sort of awareness in the UK to be honest; at least, I don't think I've ever heard any politicians, leaders or members of the public express it explicitly.
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
I suspect it only looks that way because Britain has never really had to deal with the sort of rot and collapse that so many other parts of Europe have.
One of the phrases that came out of Lord Ashcroft's focus groups on EU membership went something like 'Europeans view the EU as a church, the British view it as Costco'.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
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Posted
The choice that would get the most votes is
'sort the EU so it isn't quite so stupid'
But that isn't an option.
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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nightlamp:
The choice that would get the most votes is
'sort the EU so it isn't quite so stupid'
But that isn't an option.
That is part of the reason that I am all for staying in, and trying to change from within. If we leave, we still have to deal with the EU, but we will be dealing without having any say.
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Blog
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Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
There's a huge problem with a long ignoble history of a web of deceit though. Britain has dedicated decades to spinning yarns about what 'Europe' (as if Britain isn't part of Europe) has told it that it must do; like have straight bananas, start driving on the other side of the road, must do this, must do that - all of it, utter nonsense. Nigel Farage has been the representative for Britain in Europe. Just reflect on that for a moment. I really have no idea how that happened. I know the Irish have a tendency top elect Dustin the Turkey to certain things we have contempt for, but I'm not sure we'd play with that kind of fire in a hurry.
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
And, if there wasn't an extension there would be a different set of people complaining - and, those who tried to register in those last couple of hours would have a fair argument (though weakened by the fact that they had weeks of being told how to register and left it until the last minute).
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
though weakened by the fact that they had weeks of being told how to register and left it until the last minute
I'm not sure it is weakened. Some people always leave things to the absolute last moment, and they have every right to do so if they've been previously told that this is the deadline.
More of an issue, it seems to me, is that the ease of online registration may lead to some people (due to fraud or just a mistake) applying several times - or even when they're not entitled to vote - which could be fun for the election officials to sort out in time.
Also I thought that there was a minimum time between the registration period ending and the referendum happening. If the registration is extended, how does that not then have an impact on the date of the referendum?
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I'm not sure it is weakened. Some people always leave things to the absolute last moment, and they have every right to do so if they've been previously told that this is the deadline.
They have no right to complain if they then find they can't register. That's their problem. They had plenty of chances throughout the past weeks and on the annual form that comes round each year if they wanted to. The only reason the website crashed this time was through the sheer volume of numbers of last-minute applicants. What if the website crashes again? A further extension? And another? Because people can't get their acts together and comply with a deadline?
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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