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Source: (consider it) Thread: Bloody Brexiteers
SvitlanaV2
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# 16967

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Boris Johnson was born in the USA, has a cosmopolitan ancestry, and is probably a better linguist than most of his colleagues. So he's not such a dreadful choice for Foreign Secretary.

Some boring person we've never heard of would've been a safer, less controversial choice, but probably no more successful than Boris is likely to be in the long run. They're all politicians at the end of the day.

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Ariel
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# 58

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quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
There is an element of "You broke it, you fix it or pay for it" in some of the appointments. The only one I really don't understand is Johnson.

It does look partly like that. It's possibly also recognition that Boris does have potential, which he hasn't shown much if any sign of fulfilling so far. Screw up and he's screwed.

The one I don't understand is why Jeremy Hunt is still there. Since May seems to be axing almost everybody I thought she'd have axed him as well.

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rolyn
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# 16840

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quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
Leadsom to DEFRA. So she's the one who will have to explain to farmers about how the subsidies from the CAP will come to an end and that the recession means that the Government won't be able to replace them.

Amazing how any farmers ignored the NFU stance of Remain and campaigned for Leave. How many decades have UK farmers received price support from Europe? Even back before we joined the EU !

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Arethosemyfeet
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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:


The one I don't understand is why Jeremy Hunt is still there. Since May seems to be axing almost everybody I thought she'd have axed him as well.

The best explanation I've heard is that no-one else wanted it after the festering shit pile Hunt's made of it.
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Callan
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# 525

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quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:


The one I don't understand is why Jeremy Hunt is still there. Since May seems to be axing almost everybody I thought she'd have axed him as well.

The best explanation I've heard is that no-one else wanted it after the festering shit pile Hunt's made of it.
Hunt is the great survivor. Any ordinary politician would have ended up on the back benches after his performance as Culture Secretary. At the end of time the last survivors will be the cockroaches, and Jeremy Hunt trying to explain to the cockroaches that they need to work longer hours for less money.

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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
May is giving him the chance to complete the map? Look at South America, he's barely touched it. Interesting that they chose red to colour the map

(re the countries Boris Johnson has insulted) He hasn't been unpleasant about the oil-rich and Islamic Middle East either.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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They missed off England.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Tubbs

Miss Congeniality
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quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
They missed off England.

London should be aflame ... [Mad]

I honestly think she's decided as ye sow, ye shall reap and given a few of them jobs where they will have to deliver on what they've promised or spin in the wind.

It's quite an ask that they've got - delivering a successful Brexit whilst not destroying the economy and keeping the voters happy. It also gives May and the other remainers a dodge if / when it all goes horribly wrong.

I must check which side of the Irish border grand-dad was born ...

Tubbs

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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am

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Anselmina
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# 3032

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quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Boris Johnson was born in the USA, has a cosmopolitan ancestry, and is probably a better linguist than most of his colleagues. So he's not such a dreadful choice for Foreign Secretary.

Some boring person we've never heard of would've been a safer, less controversial choice, but probably no more successful than Boris is likely to be in the long run. They're all politicians at the end of the day.

It's true Boris isn't as stupid as he's portrayed himself as being for so long. It would've been hard for him to have sustained his popular (and lucrative) media career on panel and chat shows if he'd been completely up front as an intelligent, sensible, reliable person; rather than the sweet, bumbling, you-gotta-love-him half-wit that he's painted himself to be for such a long time now.

I always remember Paul Merton's comments that it was mostly an act to deflect serious political and critical attack. Right down to the studiously deliberately floppy mad hair. Merton always said Boris would very carefully run his hands through his hair just before appearing before camera, in case it was too neat.

To be fair to Boris, however, having watched his father on The Last Leg, he does take very much after dear old dad!

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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!

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Tubbs

Miss Congeniality
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quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Boris Johnson was born in the USA, has a cosmopolitan ancestry, and is probably a better linguist than most of his colleagues. So he's not such a dreadful choice for Foreign Secretary.

Some boring person we've never heard of would've been a safer, less controversial choice, but probably no more successful than Boris is likely to be in the long run. They're all politicians at the end of the day.

It's true Boris isn't as stupid as he's portrayed himself as being for so long. It would've been hard for him to have sustained his popular (and lucrative) media career on panel and chat shows if he'd been completely up front as an intelligent, sensible, reliable person; rather than the sweet, bumbling, you-gotta-love-him half-wit that he's painted himself to be for such a long time now.

I always remember Paul Merton's comments that it was mostly an act to deflect serious political and critical attack. Right down to the studiously deliberately floppy mad hair. Merton always said Boris would very carefully run his hands through his hair just before appearing before camera, in case it was too neat.

To be fair to Boris, however, having watched his father on The Last Leg, he does take very much after dear old dad!

Right down to the racism that Hills didn't pick up on because he's from Australia and had to apologise for the following week!

Tubbs

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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am

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fletcher christian

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Poor little Ms May, she actually seems to think that Boris gives a shit. He doesn't. It is panto season and he's the panto dame. He plays the court jester well, but what I really find hard to swallow is his connection to those statement about West Indians 'breeding like flies', the way black people are so often called 'sambo' and the way Kenya is labeled 'Bongo-Bongo land.' It's those sort of things that make me think the man is really just a wretch, posing as a fool.

[ 15. July 2016, 11:45: Message edited by: fletcher christian ]

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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan

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Anselmina
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And let's not forget his reference to 'pickaninnies' and 'water-melon smiles' when talking about the Queen being entertained by our darker-skinned Commonwealth brethren.

Oh yes. Britain is on to a winner with its foreign secretary!! But then we've just effed off most of Europe with flipping the bird over the EU, so why stop there! [Big Grin]

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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!

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Sioni Sais
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I'm beginning to think that May is an appropriate name for our Prime Minister. She seems to want to get the trade deals sorted *before* invoking Article 50 but I doubt many, if any, of the other member states will stand for that.

OTOH, the difficulties in nailing down trade deals, especially as the work has barely started, may be enough to get sufficient "Leavers" in the government, parliament and the country at large to decide that leaving the EU isn't such a good idea after all.

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SvitlanaV2
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Boris is probably somewhat racist, but I'm not convinced that he's unusual in his social group for that. Few of them are likely to have been raised in environments where black and Asian people were routinely present, and were also social equals.

Of course, Boris also had a Turkish grandfather, and has a half-Indian wife, but it's true that multicultural family connections don't necessarily make someone less racist. In fact, some would argue that it could make the issue worse.

I wonder if he feels a bit insecure about his status as an establishment insider? Hard for some to imagine, but really, why make reference to 'piccaninnies' when you could keep your unsavoury thoughts to yourself, as most polite upper middle class people would? Someone could probably do an interesting post-colonial deconstruction of Boris's 'mimicry', and so on.

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Nightlamp
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# 266

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it looks like we are go to have to employ immigrants to negotiate our trade deals as we don't have any people who know how to do trade deals. The irony being the purpose of the trade deals is that it is to prevent immigrants.

On the bridge side as we the EU is about to consign the TTIP trade to the dustbin of history the UK might get it anyway... As I suggested earlier in this thread.

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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
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I have no idea where you think that link is going, but it's not going where you want it to.

DT
HH


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Forward the New Republic

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Nightlamp
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# 266

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The link that worked earlier has now died.. sorry

NL

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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by Nightlamp:
it looks like we are go to have to employ immigrants to negotiate our trade deals as we don't have any people who know how to do trade deals. The irony being the purpose of the trade deals is that it is to prevent immigrants.

On the bridge side as we the EU is about to consign the TTIP trade to the dustbin of history the UK might get it anyway... As I suggested earlier in this thread.

Bright side? You think there is a bright side? As noted, that link doesn't work, but a lot of the other headlines from the same site (Financial Times) aren't predicting a much light to create brightness.

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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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I think any reference to getting TTIP foisted on us as the "bright side" must be ironic. Don't worry, give a whistle.

On the other hand, I've no idea what the bridge side is.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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lilBuddha
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Not sure about which side, but I think this is the bridge.

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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

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fletcher christian

Mutinous Seadog
# 13919

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I'll come right out and say it; I'm amazed - I've even been struck dumb for a while - that the whole Brexit thing still falls into the realm of economics for so many in Britain. I've argued many times on this very forum that the whole concept of Europe has more to do with human relations than it has to do with economics. What Brexit has always represented to me (and I suspect to many within Europe in general) is the erosion of European unity. Now this has the effect of giving an encouragement to the right, which Europe has always had a bit a problem with, let's be honest. This erosion also effects it's ability to stand united on the world stage, so it limits further it's negotiable powers in relation to the States, Russia, China and most notably erodes its power in dealing effectively with problematic political instability and events; such as what is happening in Turkey, what Russia often threatens or probably already did. It has an effect on the perception of democracy too. Other countries, like China for instance, might look at Europe and the UK and think that democracy of this kind puts power in the hands of stupid masses, can create great instability, isn't good economics and might not be a force for unity and a salve to the issues of a devouring individualism. They might decide that this isn't something they want. If Trump gets in in the States, then it will very seriously weaken the position of NATO (of course this depends on whether Trump will follow through on anything he declares). With a weakened NATO and a weakened Europe that would leave an isolationist America, an unbridled Russia and a Middle East that will in all likelihood collapse into a very long period of tribal warfare with ISIS thrown into the mix to give it all spice and keep the confusion running for many decades. I suspect this might mean an oil crisis at the very least.

Add to that all the issues of the far right within Europe (I mean including the UK, not the EU project). Their legitimacy has been strengthened, their voice is not only being heard, but is also being listened to. The UK will in all likelihood break up, which will bring its own hardships of population move and the strong likelihood of a return to terrorism in Northern Ireland. The UK (and the rest of Europe) might become an uncomfortable place for anyone who isn't white over time.

This seems to me to be but the tip of the iceberg in an increasingly unstable world. Now I know that there are those who will shout that I'm yet another doom monger who would have preferred a Brexin. In one sense it is quite true, I would have preferred a Brexin, but I don't think I'm doom mongering. Rather, I find these things a natural and quite understandable consequence of the vote and its result. It is also true that those unsavoury elements I've mentioned do not have to act on it, but it would seem very strange to me that those whose lust is for influence and power wouldn't choose to dine on the dish they've been served up for free and take full advantage. And in a sense this is what stupefies me about it all. The UK is still talking about it in terms of economics and shouts anything else down as alarmist, silly, doom mongering and the talk of the 'sore losers', but I cannot get my head around why you would choose to ignore these things and plough headlong into a Brexit without actually fully preparing to meet these issues and tackle them so that they don't have power over your future. I think this is what the EU will be bringing to the table, as this is what the Europe was initially about, but Britain will be bringing a wish list of economics and trading hopes. It all looks set up to be a peculiar Babel moment entered into in wilful blindness.

Has the UK become so insular it no longer sees or cares about these things?

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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan

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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128

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Precisely because some of its inhabitants regard it as an island which can sit serenely in its silver sea while remaining detached from the wider world community.
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Jane R
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# 331

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As that well-known political commentator J. R. R. Tolkien put it: "The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot forever fence it out."

[ 25. July 2016, 14:02: Message edited by: Jane R ]

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Precisely because some of its inhabitants regard it as an island which can sit serenely in its silver sea while remaining detached from the wider world community.

Which is moronic to a staggering degree. Boggles the mind that people with so little a grasp of reality are allowed outside a care facility, much less a vote.

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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

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rolyn
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# 16840

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If Britain is such a shit place, and 16 and a half million xenophobic voters have made it even more shit, then it is still perfectly possible to take to that 'Silver sea' in a little green boat like the Owl and the Pussycat.

Not sure which ocean anyone would choose to cross in order to find something better.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
If Britain is such a shit place, and 16 and a half million xenophobic voters have made it even more shit, then it is still perfectly possible to take to that 'Silver sea' in a little green boat like the Owl and the Pussycat.

Not sure which ocean anyone would choose to cross in order to find something better.

Love it or Leave it? Rubbish in America, rubbish in the UK

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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

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rolyn
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# 16840

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Love it or Leave it? Rubbish in America, rubbish in the UK

I'm not saying a person has got to love it, they are though free to leave it.
Many so called ex-pats did that long before brexit or trump ever set foot on the stage. I'm guessing the irony could be that love of Country was one factor in their decision to go.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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fletcher christian

Mutinous Seadog
# 13919

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Are you really suggesting that citizens of their own country should just suck it all up and leave it if they are deeply unhappy? It sounds like you are proposing a dangerous policy of 'put up or shut up'to those who want to criticise political developments. I hope I don't have to point out just how poisonous that would be to any form democracy. I think it was the policy of Erdogan, that he has just recently taken a step further to include 'put up or get locked up'.

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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan

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Stetson
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# 9597

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quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
Are you really suggesting that citizens of their own country should just suck it all up and leave it if they are deeply unhappy? It sounds like you are proposing a dangerous policy of 'put up or shut up'to those who want to criticise political developments. I hope I don't have to point out just how poisonous that would be to any form democracy. I think it was the policy of Erdogan, that he has just recently taken a step further to include 'put up or get locked up'.

The only time I find the LIOLI argument palatable is when the person in an immigrant themselves, and they bash the host country while praising their country of origin. Because the obvious question is "If your homeland is so great, why on Earth didn't you stay there?"

[ 25. July 2016, 20:35: Message edited by: Stetson ]

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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!

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fletcher christian

Mutinous Seadog
# 13919

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Well, I think the point that I was (probably cryptically making, but I hoped the irony might be visible without me having to point it out) making was that the 'put up and shut up' or 'like it or leave it' approach is in part what so many people are running from or being forced to remove themselves from in our world today. The original post even mentioned sailing away across the sea. The lack of self awareness in the posting was full of tragic irony; quite unintended I'm sure, but tragic nonetheless. 'Willful blindness' is a term I read from someone else, but it truly fits where we are. There seems to be an utter determination to destroy anything good that has been built up and not to stop until everything is broken.

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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan

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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967

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I think the British people should be encouraged to leave more often!

If the indigenous population were deliberately educated and trained to see themselves as active participants in the job market of the whole of the EU then immigration and overcrowding wouldn't be seen as such problems here - and Brexit wouldn't have had so much appeal.

The British working classes in particular should've been encouraged to learn from their global counterparts, who are willing to leave both family and familiarity behind in order to seek opportunities elsewhere.

The British govt should have emphasised this point when urging us to vote to remain in the EU. But considering that our politicians weren't encouraging the development of a European-focused culture or ethos long before the referendum it's hard to believe that they were all that bothered.

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Anglican't
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# 15292

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quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
The British working classes in particular should've been encouraged to learn from their global counterparts, who are willing to leave both family and familiarity behind in order to seek opportunities elsewhere.

I thought this is something that they traditionally have done? In Canada, in Australia, in New Zealand, in South Africa, in the Rhodesias...
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967

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Indeed. But for some reason that sort of attitude is not being encouraged today.
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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The Independent is reporting that the government has already suspended ERDF project funding, in which EU payouts go hand in hand with domestic match funding.

This is the other side of that "£350m a week savings", and it's going to hurt.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Tubbs

Miss Congeniality
# 440

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
The Independent is reporting that the government has already suspended ERDF project funding, in which EU payouts go hand in hand with domestic match funding.

This is the other side of that "£350m a week savings", and it's going to hurt.

Ironically, the places most impacted by loss of EU funding are the ones that voted most heavily to leave. Many of whom were demanding within a few days of the vote that the Government made up the lost funding ... This gives an indication of how likely that is going to be.

My unicorn is yet to arrive and all the leavers have gone very quiet about the extra NHS funding ...

I can't understand why someone would spend all their political career campaigning to leave something without giving any thought about what leave would look like or what they wanted after they left.

My MP looked like she was chewing a wasp when asked this by the local paper. She still hasn't responded to any of the letters asking what she's going to do when it comes to a vote given that the majority of the people she respresented voted for remain either.

Tubbs

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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am

Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
The British working classes in particular should've been encouraged to learn from their global counterparts, who are willing to leave both family and familiarity behind in order to seek opportunities elsewhere.

I thought this is something that they traditionally have done? In Canada, in Australia, in New Zealand, in South Africa, in the Rhodesias...
What's the one thing in common all these places had?

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Forward the New Republic

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
The British working classes in particular should've been encouraged to learn from their global counterparts, who are willing to leave both family and familiarity behind in order to seek opportunities elsewhere.

I thought this is something that they traditionally have done? In Canada, in Australia, in New Zealand, in South Africa, in the Rhodesias...
What's the one thing in common all these places had?
You mean apart from dead and/or dispossessed indigenous peoples?
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032

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quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
I think the British people should be encouraged to leave more often!

If the indigenous population were deliberately educated and trained to see themselves as active participants in the job market of the whole of the EU then immigration and overcrowding wouldn't be seen as such problems here - and Brexit wouldn't have had so much appeal.

The British working classes in particular should've been encouraged to learn from their global counterparts, who are willing to leave both family and familiarity behind in order to seek opportunities elsewhere.


The British - at least in NI and Scotland - has a very long and extensive experience of leaving family and familiarity (usually against their will). Our working classes have spent centuries exporting ourselves and our talents all over the world. Admittedly out of a desire to earn money in order to eat, rather than the priniciples of Alle Menschen werden Bruder (all men are brothers). Ulster and Scottish communities are still pretty well known and extensive in America and Canada, aren't they?

We also happened to be the two UK member nations who voted to Remain.

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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!

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Sober Preacher's Kid

Presbymethegationalist
# 12699

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[Big Grin] You rang?

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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.

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Tubbs

Miss Congeniality
# 440

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quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
I think the British people should be encouraged to leave more often!

If the indigenous population were deliberately educated and trained to see themselves as active participants in the job market of the whole of the EU then immigration and overcrowding wouldn't be seen as such problems here - and Brexit wouldn't have had so much appeal.

The British working classes in particular should've been encouraged to learn from their global counterparts, who are willing to leave both family and familiarity behind in order to seek opportunities elsewhere.


The British - at least in NI and Scotland - has a very long and extensive experience of leaving family and familiarity (usually against their will). Our working classes have spent centuries exporting ourselves and our talents all over the world. Admittedly out of a desire to earn money in order to eat, rather than the priniciples of Alle Menschen werden Bruder (all men are brothers). Ulster and Scottish communities are still pretty well known and extensive in America and Canada, aren't they?

We also happened to be the two UK member nations who voted to Remain.

Many of the other areas who voted to remain were the areas where people who've moved from elsewhere often end up if London is typical ...

Tubbs

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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
What's the one thing in common all these places had?

You mean apart from dead and/or dispossessed indigenous peoples?
Yes, apart from that.

They're places where English people were automatically superior to the indigenous populations, where English was the language of government and the civil service, and where English immigrants were 'ex-pats', not immigrants.

So, no. Not the same experience at all.

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Forward the New Republic

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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I see that the Daily Express reports that 98% of those surveyed just want to quit the EU now and stop messing around with all those Eurocrats.

The dumbness, it burns.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I see that the Daily Express reports that 98% of those surveyed just want to quit the EU now and stop messing around with all those Eurocrats.

The dumbness, it burns.

That would be a rather lopsided majority, for ANY issue. I'd like to know the exact question asked. I'm wondering if it was phrased in such a way so as to imply that "quit the EU now" meant something like "avoid a lot of bureaucratic arguments of indeterminate conclusion".

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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!

Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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I'm sure it did. Googling for "Daily Express 98%" throws up a lot of survey results. Maybe I should have put "the dumbing-downness, it burns".

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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Taking anything posted in the Daily Express as meaningful of anything seems somewhat naive. Like thinking that the Daily Mail would accurately describe the policies of anyone left of centre.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Taking anything posted in the Daily Express as meaningful of anything seems somewhat naive. Like thinking that the Daily Mail would accurately describe the policies of anyone left of centre.

What centre would that be. Don't most folk describe their own position as central?

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

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The 98% figure reminds me of Stalin. 98% of those questioned agreed that tractor production was a shining beacon of socialist progress. The other 2% were unavailable.

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

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A poll of a few hundred people isn't representative of anything but those few hundred people.
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032

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quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
Many of the other areas who voted to remain were the areas where people who've moved from elsewhere often end up if London is typical ...

Tubbs

It's hard not to conclude that there must be a correlation of some sort!

Personally, I think that many people who voted for 'Leave', while not being xenophobic or racist or isolationist or any of that other more negative stuff, somehow were voting with a much narrower and therefore less accurate vision in mind, of what 'Britain' actually constitutes. Not only within Europe but within its own bounds as a United Kingdom. It's harder to formulate a decision that will benefit most people across a wide range of diversity and experience, when one is only ever aware of one's own little universe, and sees all deviation from that as a menace and something to be eliminated.

The referendum should never have been called.

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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!

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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
A poll of a few hundred people isn't representative of anything but those few hundred people.

My late ex-brother-in-law, who worked in statistics, and for a polling type of company, before he was either late or ex, would counter that argument with a comparison with a blood test, in which the result is not solely representative of the mls removed.

Not sure how right he was - it would depend a lot of the criteria with which the sample was obtained, and the average vein isn't an Express reader.

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