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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Bloody Brexiteers
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Yes, a very unpleasant campaign all round, culminating in the shooting of a Labour MP. Fuck it.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
In as much as bureaucrats are controlled by government and government is controlled by the people, yes.
If one or both of those things is not true then our problems go way beyond membership (or not) of the EU.
Ah. You've noticed.
Actually from my days as a Civil Serpent, I expect papers are even now being written* on the various policies the Minister will confidently announce on whichever result eventuates.
*or perhaps not actually written but certainly murmured about among the high hied yins.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Although complaining about bureaucrats in Brussels... bear in mind that you'd often just be trading them for a bureaucrat in London.
Yes, but we have more control over the bureaucrats in London.
A charming belief, but is it borne out by the evidence?
In as much as bureaucrats are controlled by government and government is controlled by the people, yes.
If one or both of those things is not true then our problems go way beyond membership (or not) of the EU.
Yeah. Government controlled by the people.
Rupert Murdoch quote, previous page.
I'm being damned cynical this evening, but there it is. To the extent that government is controlled by the people, it often feels like what it's actually controlled by is what opinion polls indicate "the people" are thinking, and rather large quantities of "the people" are easily manipulated by what they are told to think by a series of 30-second soundbites and shouty headlines.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Yes, a very unpleasant campaign all round, culminating in the shooting of a Labour MP. Fuck it.
Keen as I am to tar Brexit with any brush going, do we actually know anything for certain about the motive for the attack?
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Yes, a very unpleasant campaign all round, culminating in the shooting of a Labour MP. Fuck it.
While I'm commenting on shouty headlines and 30-second soundbites, is there a verified report as to the cause of the shooting?
I ask not least because the first report I've seen here started with a headline of her being "attacked" but then included one witness report suggesting she had intervened in a scuffle between two other people, which would mean it would be misleading to suggest she was the target.
They've since amended their headline to say that she has been shot and stabbed, removing the term "attacked". But as it's the small hours of the morning here I doubt I'll see a more detailed source without going to UK sites.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Rumours that the shooter shouted 'Britain First', presumably, about the EU campaign.
She's died.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Rumours that the shooter shouted 'Britain First', presumably, about the EU campaign.
She's died.
Right, where I can find these rumours. Trustworthy sources? So far I've looked at the BBC.
Sorry, but I am still so massively pissed off at aspects of the Orlando shooting reporting (most of my dealing with that have occurred off-ship) that I am cautious when it comes to declarations of motive.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
I've answered my own question by finding articles at the Telegraph and the Independent so far. EDIT: And the Guardian.
[ 16. June 2016, 16:33: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Yes, most are saying he 'allegedly shouted 'Britain First''. The neo-Nazi organization, Britain First, have denied any involvement.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Stupid fucking referendum.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Well, campaigning has been suspended.
And two little girls ages 3 and 5 have just lost their mum. God help them.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Rumours that the shooter shouted 'Britain First', presumably, about the EU campaign.
If true then it's probably safe to say goodbye to the Leave Campaign.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Yes, most are saying he 'allegedly shouted 'Britain First''. The neo-Nazi organization, Britain First, have denied any involvement.
No direct involvement. Funny how killings like these tend to be perpetrated by like-minded people, though.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
Yes. It's almost as if rhetoric stirring up fear and hatred can actually have violent consequences. Thank goodness we have history telling us this never happens.
![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
I think it's best not to jump to conclusions. I set up a condolence thread in All Saints.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
I'm probably too angry for "best".
But I'll try.
My "best" self tells me that even if what I've read is wrong and this is entirely unrelated to the current political debate - even then we've lost someone who was balancing out the crazy and hateful voices. Someone who was for inclusion and compassion. Someone who... I dunno. But she was one of the good ones.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
Some media outlets have named the suspect arrested, who appears to be a man with a history of mental health problems. If this is the case, I'd be wary of drawing any connection to the current campaign or indeed with politics generally.
[ 16. June 2016, 18:11: Message edited by: Anglican't ]
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
And conversely, some people with political views have mental health issues.
I dare say we will find out what the altercation the MP tried to stop was about. It may not have been about her at all.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
Oh look, the same thing they have in the US when some white right-winger flips out and shoots someone after being stirred up by the right's disgusting rhetoric: the polite face of the right crawls out of their sewer blaming mental illness for the way they've poisoned the political discourse and incited hatred. Mental illness doesn't make you kill people. And in the rare cases it does, it doesn't generally involve planning a political assassination.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Louise
Shipmate
# 30
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Posted
Alex Massie is a Conservative journalist who writes for The Spectator - this is what he has to say
A Day of Infamy
quote:
But, still. Look. When you encourage rage you cannot then feign surprise when people become enraged. You cannot turn around and say, ‘Mate, you weren’t supposed to take it so seriously. It’s just a game, just a ploy, a strategy for winning votes.’
When you shout BREAKING POINT over and over again, you don’t get to be surprised when someone breaks. When you present politics as a matter of life and death, as a question of national survival, don’t be surprised if someone takes you at your word. You didn’t make them do it, no, but you didn’t do much to stop it either.
Sometimes rhetoric has consequences. If you spend days, weeks, months, years telling people they are under threat, that their country has been stolen from them... that their problem is they’re not sufficiently mad as hell, then at some point, in some place, something or someone is going to snap. And then something terrible is going to happen.
We can’t control the weather but, in politics, we can control the climate in which the weather happens. That’s on us, all of us, whatever side of any given argument we happen to be. Today, it feels like we’ve done something terrible to that climate.
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Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.
Posts: 6918 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
'kin hell. God help us if Farage and his Brexit minions have unleashed a hoard of unbalanced people from whom anyone who disagrees is a target.
When Farage was campaigning in South Thanet, he was walking the streets with about 6 men in suits who looked like bodyguards. One day I passed him in the street somehow getting between him and his people.
"Hey you, man," he said, as if I was some kind of serf or dog he could bring to attention.
I walked swiftly away looking only at the road ahead of me, thinking how easily it would have been to brain the country's most brainless politician.
Later I sat at the count in Margate as he chortled over his beer a table away from me.
The moral of this story is that I had two opportunities to do everyone a favour and to give Farage a knuckle sandwich in 24 hours.
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arse
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
The sight of political enemies suddenly giving beautiful eulogies to a MP who they've previously done everything in their power to frustrate is beyond nauseating.
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arse
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I think - until there is any definitive evidence - it is fucked up to link the tragic death of Jo Cox with the referendum campaign.
Having said that, my immediate gut reaction (from early reports) is that this is the sort of thing that you get when racists like Farage are given a platform. This is the result of the hatred that has been such a part of politics for the last few years.
BUT - crucially - this is my interpretation, nothing has been demonstrated. There may have been a Britain First involvement (and it does seem to match their attitude), but that is not clear.
The campaign has been such a fuck up, I think Jo should be remembered for all the good she did, not as a victim of this crap. Good politicians are increasingly rare. Today we lost another one.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Eye-witnesses report that the alleged killer was involved in an altercation in the street with an elderly man. Mrs Cox went to try to intervene and that was when she was shot and, possibly, stabbed.
There are conflicting reports as to whether the alleged killer shouted anything at the time of shooting Mrs Cox.
The alleged perpetrator has posted online various statements about the way that outdoor activity, specifically gardening, has helped with his mental health issues.
Any attempt to link the killing of this young mother with any political standpoint, on any issue or none, seems at this stage to be wide of the mark: at present it would seem she died while trying to resolve an argument in the street between two constituents.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Thing is that Farage has said that "violence is the next step" if his supporters don't get their way.
see this
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arse
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Louise
Shipmate
# 30
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Posted
His internet history is out there and it shows he subscribed to white supremacist groups. What an amazing coincidence that a politician known for speaking up for refugees and immigrants would intervene in an a random altercation in a British street and find a white supremacist carrying a gun. As the old Northern Ireland joke goes* 'Sure he must be the luckiest white supremacist in Birstall...'
* A man was walking down a street at night in Northern Ireland, when a masked gunman jumped out and yelled, "Stop! Are you Catholic or Protestant?!"
Thinking fast, the man said, "Neither! I'm Jewish!"
“Great" says the gunman, "Sure I'm the luckiest Palestinian terrorist in all of Northern Ireland!"
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Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.
Posts: 6918 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Thing is that Farage has said that "violence is the next step" if his supporters don't get their way.
see this
The link appears too have been taken down.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Chesterbelloc
Tremendous trifler
# 3128
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Posted
What the cat and the organist said.
Let's be careful out there...
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"[A] moral, intellectual, and social step below Mudfrog."
Posts: 4199 | From: Athens Borealis | Registered: Aug 2002
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Louise:
His internet history is out there and it shows he subscribed to white supremacist groups. What an amazing coincidence that a politician known for speaking up for refugees and immigrants would intervene in an a random altercation in a British street and find a white supremacist carrying a gun. As the old Northern Ireland joke goes* 'Sure he must be the luckiest white supremacist in Birstall...'
Yes, wasn't it lucky he remembered to take his gun with him when he left the house! I usually need to leave a note on the fridge to remind me.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
I'm glad to see that the campaign has been suspended. When it resumes, I hope that it will be conducted in a calmer manner, and that inflammatory rhetoric will be put to one side. That hope applies not just to politicians, but media headline-writers and editors.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Thing is that Farage has said that "violence is the next step" if his supporters don't get their way.
see this
The link appears too have been taken down.
Try this one.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Louise
Shipmate
# 30
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Posted
Or you might say the 'luckiest neo-Nazi in Birstall'
quote:
According to records obtained by the Southern Poverty Law Center, Mair was a dedicated supporter of the National Alliance (NA), the once premier neo-Nazi organization in the United States, for decades. Mair purchased a manual from the NA in 1999 that included instructions on how to build a pistol.
Mair, who resides in what is described as a semi-detached house on the Fieldhead Estate in Birstall, sent just over $620 to the NA, according to invoices for goods purchased from National Vanguard Books, the NA’s printing imprint. Mair purchased subscriptions for periodicals published by the imprint and he bought works that instruct readers on the “Chemistry of Powder & Explosives,” “Incendiaries,” and a work called “Improvised Munitions Handbook." Under “Section III, No. 9” (page 125) of that handbook, there are detailed instructions for constructing a “Pipe Pistol For .38 Caliber Ammunition” from components that can be purchased from nearly any hardware store.
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Posts: 6918 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
What the cat and the organist said.
Fuck that. What Louise said. That Jo Cox was shot is the only thing which might be chance.
What is known is than a racist who subscribed to racist, violence encouraging propaganda was carrying a weapon and used it during a time of racially charged rhetoric. Pretty damn lot of coincidence.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
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Posted
One of the Radio 4 programmes yesterday (about 5:50 p.m.) played the whole of her excellent maiden speech in the House of commons.
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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Posts: 3083 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Louise:
Or you might say the 'luckiest neo-Nazi in Birstall'
quote:
According to records obtained by the Southern Poverty Law Center, Mair was a dedicated supporter of the National Alliance (NA), the once premier neo-Nazi organization in the United States, for decades. Mair purchased a manual from the NA in 1999 that included instructions on how to build a pistol.
Mair, who resides in what is described as a semi-detached house on the Fieldhead Estate in Birstall, sent just over $620 to the NA, according to invoices for goods purchased from National Vanguard Books, the NA’s printing imprint. Mair purchased subscriptions for periodicals published by the imprint and he bought works that instruct readers on the “Chemistry of Powder & Explosives,” “Incendiaries,” and a work called “Improvised Munitions Handbook." Under “Section III, No. 9” (page 125) of that handbook, there are detailed instructions for constructing a “Pipe Pistol For .38 Caliber Ammunition” from components that can be purchased from nearly any hardware store.
That fits with the observation from a man who keeps a shop over the street who thought the gun looked homemade. Though I still wonder how he knew enough to tell.
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
That fits with the observation from a man who keeps a shop over the street who thought the gun looked homemade. Though I still wonder how he knew enough to tell.
"Pipe Pistol For .38 Caliber Ammunition" sounds fairly homemade and I think if I saw someone obviously shooting someone else with something that looks like a bit of pipe, I might be forgiven for describing it in the various ways that witnesses did - given they were various distances from the incident.
I'm at a bit of a loss to understand why it is important to understand why a witness thought it was handmade.
On the face of it, and if those documents are genuine (and they seem to be, although I'm curious why that organisation has them to hand to the extent that they can publish them this quickly) this guy sounds like he has been messing about with white supremacist groups and has been treated for mental illness.
I suggest we now need to build a large wall around Millwall football stadium to keep the white supremacists out. We also need to ensure that no more white people enter the country, so we must clamp down on anyone who has blond hair and blue eyes. Anyone meeting that description will be interviewed ruthlessly by Border Control and if they happen to speak English with a funny accent we don't recognise, they will be turned back.
All white people henceforth will be subject to a monthly spelling test. Those who are heavily tattooed, wear golden necklaces, drink beer and can't spell will go straight to jail for public protection purposes.
Police have been told to be ruthless with white people who look a bit funny walking down the street. They have been issued with tear gas and tasars and have a daily quota which they must use. Any officer returning to the station without using their quota will be thoroughly punished.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
L'organist: quote:
at present it would seem she died while trying to resolve an argument in the street between two constituents.
...one of whom just happened to be carrying a gun and a knife. In a country where this is illegal.
Yeah, right.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Most of the witnesses interviewed in the various media reports seem to be clear that the one guy attacked the MP and another guy tried to fend him off. I've not seen anything to suggest that there was an altercation which the MP tried to intervene to stop. That would have been a weird thing to happen if it turns out it was that way around.
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arse
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Chesterbelloc
Tremendous trifler
# 3128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
What the cat and the organist said.
Fuck that. What Louise said. That Jo Cox was shot is the only thing which might be chance.
What is known is than a racist who subscribed to racist, violence encouraging propaganda was carrying a weapon and used it during a time of racially charged rhetoric. Pretty damn lot of coincidence.
My point - perhaps I could have made it clearer - was that we should be very careful before we attribute the murder specifically to the referendum "climate" - or to anything else at this stage, for that matter. The fact that we know her murderer had (by his own admission) serious mental heath problems and a very long-standing attachment to politically extremist organisations disinclines me even further to attribute his actions to the "bloody Brexiteers".
I think he was probably a disaster waiting to happen, but to attribute the trigger to the referendum campaign seems massively premature and prima facie questionable - to a person in that state, who knows what else could or might possibly have triggered such an irrational action? If he had been carrying a leaflet from the local parish church which cited a thorny biblical passage, words from which he muttered as he attacked Ms Cox, would we now be blaming the "bloody bible-bashers"?
Seriously, we have nothing like the kind of information that would justify such an attribution. I get that there is visceral hatred out here for the Brexit campaign/ers but let's maintain a bit of a grip here, peeps.
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"[A] moral, intellectual, and social step below Mudfrog."
Posts: 4199 | From: Athens Borealis | Registered: Aug 2002
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
On the face of it, and if those documents are genuine (and they seem to be, although I'm curious why that organisation has them to hand to the extent that they can publish them this quickly)
AFAICT the SPLC have a practise of digitising documents that come into their possession, which means they are easily able to search them when something like this comes up.
It would be relatively easy for them to search for a particular name, eliminating duplicates by location, and come up with a list of activities.
Most of the documents actually bought would have been legal or quasi-legal in the US, so it isn't as if what they had in their possession constituted clear evidence of a crime.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
Most of the documents actually bought would have been legal or quasi-legal in the US, so it isn't as if what they had in their possession constituted clear evidence of a crime.
True, although if they have a dump of documents via wikileaks (etc), they'd still have to prove the general authenticity of them and the specific authenticity of this invoice
For example, how do we know that the address is for the suspect? Could there not have been someone else with the same name in the vicinity?
It seems quite inconceivable that even if they could be sure that they have a genuine dump of documents they could possibly be 100% sure that this is the same person from several thousand miles away and after a few hours of the incident.
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arse
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
It seems quite inconceivable that even if they could be sure that they have a genuine dump of documents they could possibly be 100% sure that this is the same person from several thousand miles away and after a few hours of the incident.
I presume they were looking for someone of that name and cross correlated against people living in the Fieldhead area in Birstall.
As I said above, they have the information already available, as part of their work to build up databases of extremists and their connections, it's just a case of searching it.
Richard Barth doing the same thing on the internet, dug up this link:
https://twitter.com/Barthsnotes/status/743473590897623041
[ 17. June 2016, 09:39: Message edited by: chris stiles ]
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
I presume they were looking for someone of that name and cross correlated against people living in the Fieldhead area in Birstall.
I understand. My point is that there could be someone else of the same name in the area, and there is little chance that the SPLC could be able to due the verification necessary to be sure this was the same person.
In practice there appears to be only one person of that name in the town on the electoral roll, but I'm not sure if they'd have checked first from the USA.
I'm not saying it is incorrect, I'm just saying a rush to publish these invoices might not be helping in this instance and writing with a little less detail and a bit more circumspection about the chance it could be someone else might have been more healthy - until the proper authorities can confirm a link.
quote:
As I said above, they have the information already available, as part of their work to build up databases of extremists and their connections, it's just a case of searching it.
I mean, Richard Barth doing the same thing on the internet, dig up this link:
https://twitter.com/Barthsnotes/status/743473590897623041
That's a little different as the suspect himself appears to have implicated himself with that organisation and the organisation has named him.
Even there a little more circumspection might help as there is still a chance they could be speaking of someone else with the same name or something.
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arse
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
I think he was probably a disaster waiting to happen, but to attribute the trigger to the referendum campaign seems massively premature and prima facie questionable
So, we have a person with a history of mental health issues and links to far-right extremists. As you say a disaster waiting to happen.
But, he also chose to murder his local MP, a prominant campaigner for human rights and advocate for an open and welcoming multi-ethnic society. An MP who was due to campaign to remain in the EU after her surgery. And, he chose to do this a week before the referendum - the last of her surgeries before then. And, he did it when Farage is producing Nazi-inspired posters and proclaiming that a remain vote will lead to violence in the streets.
A coincidence? Not bloody likely.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
Seriously, we have nothing like the kind of information that would justify such an attribution. I get that there is visceral hatred out here for the Brexit campaign/ers but let's maintain a bit of a grip here, peeps.
The Spectator is urging its readers to vote Leave. But it's also published this.
quote:
Sometimes rhetoric has consequences. If you spend days, weeks, months, years telling people they are under threat, that their country has been stolen from them, that they have been betrayed and sold down the river, that their birthright has been pilfered, that their problem is they’re too slow to realise any of this is happening, that their problem is they’re not sufficiently mad as hell, then at some point, in some place, something or someone is going to snap. And then something terrible is going to happen.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
This is also suggestive that there was some kind of link:
Britain First were having an "activist training event" recently in Wales - including classes in "Knife Defence"
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arse
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
I guess the police are looking at the evidence for premeditation, for various reasons associated with the UK criminal law. Clearly there is information which points to that. But I'd let them do their job.
On reflection, I'm with Alan re the EU referendum. The febrile atmosphere and some of the really nasty Brexit publicity seem very likely to have contributed to this tragedy. But I think that is a separate issue to the nature of the crime itself, and the state of mind of the perpetrator. All of which seem to me to relate to the question of premeditation.
One thing you can be sure of. Given the very high profile, the police will be bending over backwards to do this by the book. So it may be a while before all of the relevant facts emerge.
[ 17. June 2016, 10:01: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Chesterbelloc
Tremendous trifler
# 3128
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Posted
More or less what Barnabas just said, really. I'm a bit gobsmacked that so many people seem so keen to jump to immediate conclusions on this one - in many cases, conclusions that very conveniently seem to fit their own engrained attitudes.
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
This is also suggestive that there was some kind of link:
Britain First were having an "activist training event" recently in Wales - including classes in "Knife Defence"
And is there any evidence whatsoever that Cox's murderer had even heard of this event, let alone attended?
[ 17. June 2016, 10:12: Message edited by: Chesterbelloc ]
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"[A] moral, intellectual, and social step below Mudfrog."
Posts: 4199 | From: Athens Borealis | Registered: Aug 2002
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Chesterbelloc
Tremendous trifler
# 3128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
But, he also chose to murder his local MP, a prominant campaigner for human rights and advocate for an open and welcoming multi-ethnic society.
Do we even know if he knew this about Ms Cox, let alone that it influenced his attack?
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"[A] moral, intellectual, and social step below Mudfrog."
Posts: 4199 | From: Athens Borealis | Registered: Aug 2002
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