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Source: (consider it) Thread: Dear American police
Golden Key
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# 1468

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The Bahamian gov't has issued a travel advisory for their Black young men going to the US. I was wondering how long it would take for someone to do that.

Also, some American conservative pundits and politicians are starting to say, "Yes, Virginia, African-Americans really are treated badly, and have been for a long time, and that needs to change". Even Newt Gingrich. Hope they mean it.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

And yet your response to "Dallas Is Better" is to minimise the importance of that by insisting on a general observation that, while technically true, seeks to minimise and trivialise the importance of the betterment of policing in Dallas.

I am not minimising the effort of the Dallas police. Just stating that it is not enough, by itself, to change the national problem.
If someone saves a starving child, it is a wonderful act, but it does not end starvation by itself.
And, even if they exhibited not a trace of bias, and not one single case of brutality, questionable arrest, etc.; it will take years for their reputation to be rehabilitated. As Dallas Police Chief David O. Brown said:
quote:
trust is hard to earn and easy to lose
You appear to be seeking to view my words in the worst possible way.

BTW, I do not think you are actually an idiot, but I do think you are doing an incredible job of acting the part.

quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
A paradigmatic shift in our notions of what the police are supposed to be doing sounds like a great idea. I'm not sold on the idea of national standards, though. National standards haven't done much for our educational system.

Possibly because the standards set are rubbish? Before I'm accused of hating on American teachers, I am asking, not accusing. A national standard is not a bankrupt concept simply because the implementation is faulty.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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Setting national standards for things like teaching and policing, things that involve a lot of individuals working in a variety of conditions, may not be a great idea in a heterogeneous country of well over 300 million people. Or maybe we're just not very good at it.
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Gee D
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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Setting national standards for things like teaching and policing, things that involve a lot of individuals working in a variety of conditions, may not be a great idea in a heterogeneous country of well over 300 million people. Or maybe we're just not very good at it.

Just limiting comment to the police, the evidence is that you're just not very good at it at the moment. Would an attempt at a federal plan make any difference? This of course assumes that such a plan would be constitutional. I know how it could be done here, but am not sure about in the US.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Golden Key
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There'd be a lot of push-back.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
BTW, I do not think you are actually an idiot, but I do think you are doing an incredible job of acting the part.

The feeling is mutual.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Setting national standards for things like teaching and policing, things that involve a lot of individuals working in a variety of conditions, may not be a great idea in a heterogeneous country of well over 300 million people. Or maybe we're just not very good at it.

IIRC, there are actually national guidelines, but they are fairly basic, they need to be more comprehensive. At least one of the presidential candidates agrees with me. Creating better ones would require evaluating any real regional differences. I am not saying there aren't any, but I will say I believe they are not as ubiquitous as commonly portrayed. Regional variation makes for an interesting and vibrant country, but not everything need be different.
As GK, says, there will be pushback. Change is not something people accept easily.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Setting national standards for things like teaching and policing, things that involve a lot of individuals working in a variety of conditions, may not be a great idea in a heterogeneous country of well over 300 million people. Or maybe we're just not very good at it.

I would have to agree that nat'l teaching standards have been far, far less than successful and have led to a lot of unfortunate unintended consequences. But the thing is, local control of schools hasn't exactly been a success either. Local control of schools has led to huge disparities in educational quality based on race and income. It has very much contributed to income inequality and loss of social-economic mobility. It has created ridiculous housing bubbles (especially here in Calif.) by driving up prices in good school districts-- with all sorts of problematic economic results.

You have to take that into consideration as well before you jump to the conclusion that national standards-- whether for education or for policing-- is a de facto bad idea. We can think of places where national standards have been a good idea-- e.g. meat inspection and consumer protection. There's a bit of confirmation bias going on-- we don't notice the places where nat'l standards work, precisely because they work, and when things work it's not newsworthy and escapes our notice. We only notice when nat'l standards don't work.

Whether nat'l standards for policing will work or not work very much depends on what those nat'l standards are, how they are derived, and how they are implemented. But we can't dismiss the suggestion of nat'l standards simply because they are national.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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Standards for teachers being set by people who have never spent a day in a classroom since they graduated (or flunked out, it would seem) are antithetical to good teaching.

The national standards we have now are basically "the students you teach this year must score higher on this artificial test designed by a firm whose primary purpose in life is to suck taxpayer money into the pockets of rich fatcats than did the students you taught last year -- an entirely different group of students."

It's asinine.

[ 10. July 2016, 22:34: Message edited by: mousethief ]

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Standards for teachers being set by people who have never spent a day in a classroom since they graduated (or flunked out, it would seem) are antithetical to good teaching.

The national standards we have now are basically "the students you teach this year must score higher on this artificial test designed by a firm whose primary purpose in life is to suck taxpayer money into the pockets of rich fatcats than did the students you taught last year -- an entirely different group of students."

It's asinine.

Absolutely agree. The point being that what makes them unworkable is not that they're national standards but that they were devised by people with so little knowledge or experience of teaching. They would be just as bad if they were local. In fact, many local school districts are full of similarly asinine policies and procedures. Yes, Kansas I'm looking at you

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Golden Key
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Plus Americans really don't like to be told to do what to do. Laws and rules are supposed to protect and help Us (of whatever group), and rein in Them (of other groups).

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
Absolutely agree. The point being that what makes them unworkable is not that they're national standards but that they were devised by people with so little knowledge or experience of teaching. They would be just as bad if they were local. In fact, many local school districts are full of similarly asinine policies and procedures. Yes, Kansas I'm looking at you

Agree.

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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Penny S
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# 14768

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When the first National Curriculum was introduced under Thatcher, the then Education Secretary, Kenneth Baker, said of the Primary Science part of it that a Y6 pupil should understand gravity.

I don't think things have improved greatly since. Not only do they not understand teaching or child development, they do not understand the subjects they pontificate about.

My sister was involved in the input of mathematical understanding in the current changes, and was, as were others who knew what they were talking about, ignored.

Please note that in quoting the item which I feel sums up the attitude to the national testing regimes, I have been generous enough to avoid any puns about the seriousness of the matter.

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
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In terms of standards there are a series of questions to be asked, and this doesn't just apply to policing though obviously that's the example relevant here.

1. Is there a need to improve policing?

Well, at the moment it looks like there are some deficiencies in the way policing happens in the US (and elsewhere). So, yes I would say there needs to be improvements - and they need to be quite visible as there are issues of restoring eroded public trust.

2. Is there a need for a national standard?

This is trickier. There are quite significant local differences in what police need to do - the details of the police role in a small rural community would be very different to an inner city area. On the other hand, there are also areas of similarity where standards could be national. If you have armed police then it's not unreasonable that there are standards in proficiency in the use of those weapons - a standard level of marksmanship (with regular assessments to ensure that that level is maintained) for example. Would there be sufficient similarity in reasons why an officer might need to draw their weapon that this could be standardised across the nation?

3. If you decide you need standards (whether national or local), who sets them?

Standards set by people without the relevant experience and knowledge, especially those set by politicians seeking to be seen to be doing something, are generally counter-productive. On the other hand. But, if you have policing standards set by police officers (or, retired officers) and there is an issue of public trust then even if those standards are good they may not be seen to be good. It's a catch-22 - you need standards to help regain public trust, but until you have the public trust there isn't going to be trust in the standards.

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

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cliffdweller
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Very thoughtful and well said, Alan. Agree completely with all of the above.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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lilBuddha
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National standards do not mean that the entire training for every different type of law enforcement needs be be the same.
It means the base level of training. Most American police training is insufficient. There is also an attitude problem. US police are too aggressive and feel too much the need to be the alpha in every situation. And this is unacceptable when all of them carry weapons. If this occurred in the US, the man would be dead.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
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As per a lot of what is being said above, there is a big difference between standardized training and standardized practices/ outcome expectation. It is resonable to expect all teachers to have studied child development and education theory, it is also reasonable to require police to take training in de-escalation techniques. How they apply that information is going to vary from situation to situtation, of course, but it's reasonable to expect them to have the information in the first place.

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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Golden Key
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Like *this* is really going to help anything.

Kansas Cop Fired After Threatening 5-Year-Old Girl On Facebook “Hold her close tonight,” the officer wrote on the girl’s mother’s Facebook page. “It’ll be the last time.” (HuffPost)

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Golden Key
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Like *this* is really going to help anything.

Kansas Cop Fired After Threatening 5-Year-Old Girl On Facebook “Hold her close tonight,” the officer wrote on the girl’s mother’s Facebook page. “It’ll be the last time.” (HuffPost)

ETA: There's a criminal investigation. I hope they also go back and check every interaction he ever had with the public, and every arrest.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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lilBuddha
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Why isn't the bastard behind bars?

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Why isn't the bastard behind bars?

[NSFW link redacted]Same reason this bastard isn't, I guess...

At least the cop has been fired.

Hostly furry hat on

Romanlion, I was having a perfectly nice day, and you do something shitty like posting an obviously nsfw image without any warning, or attempt at a two-click separation.

That gets you Admin attention.

DT
HH


Hostly furry hat off

[ 12. July 2016, 15:32: Message edited by: Doc Tor ]

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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

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romanlion
editorial comment
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I apologize.

I wrongly judged the content and won't make that error again.

Hell, I'm at work! [Eek!]

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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

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Golden Key
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Just heard on the news that three police officers have been shot and killed in Baton Rouge--the same city where one of the recent killings *by* police took place.
[Frown]

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Just heard on the news that three police officers have been shot and killed in Baton Rouge--the same city where one of the recent killings *by* police took place.
[Frown]

No one here gives a shit, but the next time some asshole with dark pigmentation gets shot by a white cop the thread will jump pages in the first hour.

Silence is the response to the OP until then. The ones thinking "fuck 'em" just don't have the balls to post it.

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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

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Barnabas62
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BBC feed. Situation sounds confused but there is no hint so far of a "revenge killing" motive.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Just heard on the news that three police officers have been shot and killed in Baton Rouge--the same city where one of the recent killings *by* police took place.
[Frown]

No one here gives a shit, but the next time some asshole with dark pigmentation gets shot by a white cop the thread will jump pages in the first hour.

Silence is the response to the OP until then. The ones thinking "fuck 'em" just don't have the balls to post it.

You're never slow to post that kind of trash. Gosh, you are lower than a snakes belly.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Just heard on the news that three police officers have been shot and killed in Baton Rouge--the same city where one of the recent killings *by* police took place.
[Frown]

No one here gives a shit, but the next time some asshole with dark pigmentation gets shot by a white cop the thread will jump pages in the first hour.

Silence is the response to the OP until then. The ones thinking "fuck 'em" just don't have the balls to post it.

It's because it's no surprise that there are bad people out there, some even bad enough to kill police. OTOH we're shocked when the police, our designated good guys, shoot a man point blank when they have him down, flat on his back and seemingly over-powered.

I don't have a higher opinion of Alton Sterling than you do. He got a fourteen year-old girl pregnant. He assaulted women. He fathered five children by women he failed to live with and help and he owed $25,000 in back child support. Finally he was threatening people with a gun that he, as a convicted felon, had no legal right to carry. The police knew Sterling and had reason to fear him. His actions that day precipitated this whole nationwide mess.

None of that changes the fact that what the police appeared to do on that video was completely wrong. It's not their job to be judge, jury and executioner and if they are allowed to get away with that sort of action, we are all in a lot of trouble. That makes what they did a whole lot more shocking than the fall-out that has happened since.

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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Just heard on the news that three police officers have been shot and killed in Baton Rouge--the same city where one of the recent killings *by* police took place.
[Frown]

No one here gives a shit, but the next time some asshole with dark pigmentation gets shot by a white cop the thread will jump pages in the first hour.

Silence is the response to the OP until then. The ones thinking "fuck 'em" just don't have the balls to post it.

You're never slow to post that kind of trash. Gosh, you are lower than a snakes belly.
Too bad I'm not a guy named Alton Sterling who was fucking and impregnating a 14 year old at age 20, violent felon with a gun who resisted arrest and got shot by the police.

Then you would consider me some kind of martyr...as opposed to Tyshawn Lee, whom I'm sure you've never heard of.

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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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What Twilight said.

Plus a lot of us are probably sad, discouraged, suffering from Bad Thing Fatigue, grieving, angry, anxious, and overwhelmed. I am.

And worried about how all of this will affect the political conventions, both in terms of safety and decisions.
[Paranoid] [Votive]

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
What Twilight said.

Plus a lot of us are probably sad, discouraged, suffering from Bad Thing Fatigue, grieving, angry, anxious, and overwhelmed. I am.

And worried about how all of this will affect the political conventions, both in terms of safety and decisions.
[Paranoid] [Votive]

'cept romanlion (spit) still rejoicing in the bad news that gives succour to his prejudice.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
What Twilight said.

Plus a lot of us are probably sad, discouraged, suffering from Bad Thing Fatigue, grieving, angry, anxious, and overwhelmed. I am.

And worried about how all of this will affect the political conventions, both in terms of safety and decisions.
[Paranoid] [Votive]

'cept romanlion (spit) still rejoicing in the bad news that gives succour to his prejudice.
Prejudice? Against the lie of BLM?

Guilty as charged...

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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
It's not their job to be judge, jury and executioner and if they are allowed to get away with that sort of action, we are all in a lot of trouble.

You'd think that idea would be common sense, wouldn't you?

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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saysay

Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645

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quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Prejudice? Against the lie of BLM?

And what lie would that be? That black lives matter?...

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I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
It's not their job to be judge, jury and executioner and if they are allowed to get away with that sort of action, we are all in a lot of trouble.

You'd think that idea would be common sense, wouldn't you?
Their job is to protect the public and get home at night.

If they give you instructions you should follow them.

You'd think that idea would be common sense, wouldn't you?

Particularly if you knew you were a felon in possession of a gun. But hey, they probably disrespected him in some way...

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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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As cliffdweller pointed out, pages and pages ago, what if you follow instructions and get shot for following them?

But why am I talking to you? I don't think you really give a shit about the situation at all, you just get off on rubbing ground glass into already raw subjects.

[ 17. July 2016, 22:58: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
As cliffdweller pointed out, pages and pages ago, what if you follow instructions and get shot for following them?

Where is the evidence that this is what happened?

The video(s) shot in the latest two examples show nothing but the aftermath. Where is the video showing either of these two guys following instructions and being shot?

ETA:Unless you are taking the statements of the dope smoking mother with the child in the car as "evidence".

[ 17. July 2016, 23:25: Message edited by: romanlion ]

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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

Posts: 1390 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
It's not their job to be judge, jury and executioner and if they are allowed to get away with that sort of action, we are all in a lot of trouble.

You'd think that idea would be common sense, wouldn't you?
One of the many things I don't understand: the bad cops, among the larger mass of cops, know their actions are more on the radar these days. Even if they absolutely believe that black people are the worst kind of evil, you'd think that--in *their own* self interest--they'd hold back a bit on mistreating African Americans (and others), at least for now. Are they so far gone that they can't see they're making things worse for themselves and other cops?
[Confused]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17664 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
It's not their job to be judge, jury and executioner and if they are allowed to get away with that sort of action, we are all in a lot of trouble.

You'd think that idea would be common sense, wouldn't you?
One of the many things I don't understand: the bad cops, among the larger mass of cops, know their actions are more on the radar these days. Even if they absolutely believe that black people are the worst kind of evil, you'd think that--in *their own* self interest--they'd hold back a bit on mistreating African Americans (and others), at least for now.
[Confused]

Yeah, cause they're all out there just hating blacks and chomping at the bit for a chance to shoot one.

Seems like they would know when to chill for a minute...

[Roll Eyes]

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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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Your Member Status tag of shitstain is accurate, but only in the same way as it is accurate to call Hitler a bad person.
You are posting merely to stir shit up and offend posters. I doubt you give one shit about police.
You are easily the most worthless waste of carbon currently on the Ship.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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romanlion--

Was the girlfriend high at the time? She didn't seem like it, IMHO.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17664 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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romanlion--

I specified the *bad* cops, and further specified that they're only one part of a larger mass of cops. I.e., not all cops are bad.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17664 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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GK,

He is not interested in real discussion. He just wants to post inflammatory rhetoric.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 16607 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I doubt you give one shit about police.

Yeah, except for the ones I count as family.

Fuck the rest. Kill 'em all. Black haters each and every.

quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
romanlion--

Was the girlfriend high at the time? She didn't seem like it, IMHO.

Considering she would post video of herself smoking weed with her child in the back seat, it's hard to imagine that she wasn't...or hadn't been recently.

Either way her judgement is not what I would call solid.

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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

Posts: 1390 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
It's not their job to be judge, jury and executioner and if they are allowed to get away with that sort of action, we are all in a lot of trouble.

You'd think that idea would be common sense, wouldn't you?
One of the many things I don't understand: the bad cops, among the larger mass of cops, know their actions are more on the radar these days. Even if they absolutely believe that black people are the worst kind of evil, you'd think that--in *their own* self interest--they'd hold back a bit on mistreating African Americans (and others), at least for now. Are they so far gone that they can't see they're making things worse for themselves and other cops?
[Confused]

You'd think that, too, and you'd think that the fact that highly placed members of various police forces are ( finally) stepping forward to say, "CHILL" would provoke reflection, too.

Romancub, my Godbrother is a cop, my stepsister-in-law was a cop(RIP), I was confirmed with the son of a Peninsula police chief, a very good friend of both my parents, and my local prescinct contains several people from my graduating class. Hardly makes me special, I'd wager most Americans anywhere have friends and relatives that are cops.

The onus for deescalation is on people in authority. All the cop- fielding advice in the world won't help if people live in fear of arbitrary attack.

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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Wow, what a mess. I don't even know where to start parsing this.

I have to say that I'm rather glad to live in the country where every police caused death is treated like a potential-if-not-actual serious crime rather than a regrettable-but-inevitable accident. But the idea that some are taking potshots at people in uniform... well, that's just horrific.

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overheard on a Welsh bus-stop: Jesus don't care about you, he's only interested in your soul

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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Then you would consider me some kind of martyr...as opposed to Tyshawn Lee, whom I'm sure you've never heard of.

The name didn't ring a bell, so I skimmed a little info. I usually don't remember the names of crime victims, nor the details of their stories. But this story does sound vaguely familiar.

Tyshawn's murder was horrible, especially because he was a kid. It's good that you care.

The case that hit me hardest was the murder of Kitty Genovese, decades ago, when I was a kid. It turns out to be more complicated than was originally reported, and various people put a lot of spin on it. But it was a horrible thing. Her brother recently put out a film about his journey to find out what really happened. Haven't seen it, but heard an extensive piece on NPR about it. The story still haunts me a bit, after all these years.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17664 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Liopleurodon

Mighty sea creature
# 4836

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A dead black guy's past is rifled through in great detail, and any indication that he wasn't a saint taken as evidence that he deserved to die and/or was probably stupid enough to pull a gun on a cop. So much "eh, he was kinda a scumbag... the world's no worse off without him" stuff. Whether or not someone was a lousy, deadbeat dad, that's not a capital crime - let alone one that is punishable by execution without trial.

Something I read about the Brock Turner rape case rings true here: the victims have a past and the perps have a future. We see the same thing in the case of black people shot by police. It's all "well, he used to smoke weed and shoplift" or "see this photo where he looks kinda threatening" whereas the cop? Glittering career in front of him. Family man. You wouldn't want to ruin his future, would you?

In all honesty, I think people aren't commenting so much about the murder of police officers because there's more widespread understanding that that is a bad thing. Nobody has to make the case that it's wrong.

[ 18. July 2016, 11:06: Message edited by: Liopleurodon ]

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Our God is an awesome God. Much better than that ridiculous God that Desert Bluffs has. - Welcome to Night Vale

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by Liopleurodon:

In all honesty, I think people aren't commenting so much about the murder of police officers because there's more widespread understanding that that is a bad thing. Nobody has to make the case that it's wrong.

Exactly.

[ 18. July 2016, 14:32: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

Posts: 35051 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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quote:
Originally posted by Liopleurodon:
A dead black guy's past is rifled through in great detail, and any indication that he wasn't a saint taken as evidence that he deserved to die and/or was probably stupid enough to pull a gun on a cop. So much "eh, he was kinda a scumbag... the world's no worse off without him" stuff. Whether or not someone was a lousy, deadbeat dad, that's not a capital crime - let alone one that is punishable by execution without trial.

Something I read about the Brock Turner rape case rings true here: the victims have a past and the perps have a future. We see the same thing in the case of black people shot by police. It's all "well, he used to smoke weed and shoplift" or "see this photo where he looks kinda threatening" whereas the cop? Glittering career in front of him. Family man. You wouldn't want to ruin his future, would you?


Comparing an unconscious rape victim and a gun wielding man in the act of a crime doesn't seem quite fair to me.

Actually I've seen quite a few pictures of Alton Sterling with his children and the words "Father of Five," above it as though he was the devoted family man from a fifties sit-com.

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
Comparing an unconscious rape victim and a gun wielding man in the act of a crime doesn't seem quite fair to me.

A man tasered and pinned to the ground by two police officers is not exactly what most people would think of as "a gun wielding man in the act of a crime". By that point any "gun wielding" and crime would be well and truly in the past tense. But "a man who had been reported waving a gun around at some point prior to the arrival of the police" doesn't have the rhetorical ring to it, nor does changing the "act of a crime" to "flogging dodgy CDs".

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

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