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» Ship of Fools   » Community discussion   » Hell   » Forget Fred it's Franklin who has real influence. (Page 2)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Forget Fred it's Franklin who has real influence.
lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
A Southern Democract. Which essentially was a Republican who couldn't forgive Lincoln.

That is a massive overgeneralization. True of many (most of whom became Republicans in the Reagan era), but not true of many others.

I say this as a lifelong Southerner and a lifelong Democrat who comes from a long line of lifelong Southern Democrats.

Generalisation, yes. Massive? No. The reason the south became Democratic was Lincoln being Republican. Full stop.
Yes, some progressed with the times, some did not and some are in-between. IMO, you cannot drop Democrat in the south without qualifying what that means in the particular case.

Overgeneralise? Can one undergeneralise?

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Nick Tamen

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Generalisation, yes. Massive? No. The reason the south became Democratic was Lincoln being Republican. Full stop.
Yes, some progressed with the times, some did not and some are in-between. IMO, you cannot drop Democrat in the south without qualifying what that means in the particular case.

But you didn't really qualify what "Democrat" means in the Southern context. You took what it could mean—and admittedly likely meant 60+ years ago, but is much less likely to mean now—and put it forward as if that's what it does mean.

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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

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lilBuddha
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It was more a reaction to cliffdweller mention of Graham being a Democrat to imply something the term didn't mean that I was addressing. So, though I may not have been clear, I was using it contextually.
And yes, the way I phrased it tarred some good people, it was a generalisation. I am not certain I am prepared to apologise for it though.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Nick Tamen

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From my perspective, it did more than "tar some good people." It suggested that what may have been true decades ago can still safely be assumed to be true of Democrats in the South today. That simply is not the case.

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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
It was more a reaction to cliffdweller mention of Graham being a Democrat to imply something the term didn't mean that I was addressing. So, though I may not have been clear, I was using it contextually.
And yes, the way I phrased it tarred some good people, it was a generalisation. I am not certain I am prepared to apologise for it though.

Your point about the historical shift that has happened in the South re: the Democratic party is well taken, however, I don't think it fits with Graham (just a reminder: I'm talking about
Billy Graham here). I'm fairly certain Billy is and was a Democrat in the context in which we normally think of it-- i.e. progressive social policies, and particularly the 1960s civil rights movement (when many Southern Democrats left the party) given his close relationship with MLK.

As I said before, with Franklin Graham we're talking about something else all together.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Brenda Clough
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Graham's daughter Anne pontificates about 9-11. I am very impressed at the powers that gay people have. Why don't they wear spandex and fight crime, if they have such amazing gifts?

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Penny S
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I know that the media will pick photos which make the target look in a particular way, but she does look as if she spends her time thinking nasty thoughts, not being in communion with God*. The lines look more permanent than the chosen expression.

*Or not the one I know about. The one she thinks is such a mean-minded vindictive piece of work as to take out the innocent for a few people's minor peccadilloes, maybe.

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lilBuddha
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The look captured is irrelevant. She is ugly where it counts; on the inside.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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orfeo

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Graham's daughter Anne pontificates about 9-11. I am very impressed at the powers that gay people have. Why don't they wear spandex and fight crime, if they have such amazing gifts?

I'm more impressed at God's willingness to use Muslims.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Nick Tamen

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quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
I know that the media will pick photos which make the target look in a particular way . . . .

I think you can stick with this.

Meanwhile, am I the only one who thinks it odd that this article goes on and on about what Anne Graham Lotz said, but fails to provide a single actual quote? We're told she "did an interview recently," but we're not told when, where or with who. We're told what the writer says she said, but not what she actually said in such a way that we can assess it on our own.

I've read some accounts of the May interview that I assume this article is referring to. What I've seen reported matches some but not nearly all of what's in this article, which makes me wonder just how much this writer is drawing on older (also unidentified) interviews, or perhaps just how much this writer is putting his own spin on what she said, taking it further than she did, and regurgitating what has circulated and been embellished upon on the internet for years.

To be clear, the actual quotes that I have seen express ideas I completely disagree with and that need to be challenged. But this is, at best, shoddy journalism. I truly have no clue how much of what's in this article can be trusted.

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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

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Golden Key
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Nick--

That happened with Cat Stevens and his purported comments about Islam and terrorism (?), many years ago. I noticed, at the time, that there weren't actual quotes. Turned out he never said what was reported.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:

To be clear, the actual quotes that I have seen express ideas I completely disagree with and that need to be challenged. But this is, at best, shoddy journalism. I truly have no clue how much of what's in this article can be trusted.

Yes, it's disheartening how crappy religious reporting in particular has become. I want to blame the lazy journalists but I think it's probably more to do with bean counters squeezing budgets.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Golden Key
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...gone the way of commas, real copy-editing by a trained human being, fact-checking...
[Frown]

[ 13. September 2016, 06:33: Message edited by: Golden Key ]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17654 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dave W.
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Why should anyone expect "religious reporting" of any quality from some random website like the Greenville Gazette?
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