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Source: (consider it) Thread: Smack for a Snack
Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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A day care in Kentucky has been requiring children to take a hit with a ruler before giving them food. Now it's being monitored. Why wasn't it shut down?

Link.

I have some ideas for punishing these men.

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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From article:
quote:
Officials also found the day care's storefront window shattered. Staff said one child had knocked another into the glass.
Well, duh, if you teach kids that smacking people around is a game, what do you expect
?

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28

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What a horrible set-up all around.

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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I have some ideas for punishing these men.

A whipping before every meal would seem suitable.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Piglet
Islander
# 11803

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Honestly, on what planet is a set-up like that acceptable? And what sort of weirdo* thought up such an idea?

[Confused]

* You can't help thinking that they might have rather enjoyed Orfeo's idea ... [Eek!]

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

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Egeria
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# 4517

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Probably the same sort of weirdo who, in charge of a "Christian" "tough-love" "camp" (discussed several years ago here), forbade the campers (ie, inmates) to listen to Bach. Because the music is too beautiful and profound to be really Christian, or some such nonsense.

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"Sound bodies lined / with a sound mind / do here pursue with might / grace, honor, praise, delight."--Rabelais

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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This is me totally theorizing in the dark, but it reminds me of some asshole young men I've known who think it's "funny" to cause minor pain and upset to children and animals. (By minor I mean it doesn't wind up with anybody in the hospital, so they think it doesn't matter, "we were just having a laugh")

My question is how the assholes got away with it if there were other adults in the center. Which I understand there were. I'd expect at least one person down there to have more emotional intelligence than a doughnut.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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More details in this article.

Really awful details. Like, quotes from the kids.

To answer what the other adults were doing-- it sounds like there were 87 kids in this facility, and that this was far, far too many kids for the number of staff on duty. The KY teacher to child ratio seems to be 1:12, and they found one woman with 27 kids on her own. So, my guess is these two animals had a room of 24 ( or more) kids on their own, and the other teachers were too busy managing their own overcrowded classes to know what was going on.

[ 03. October 2016, 05:23: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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What astonishing assholes. And stupid, too. Somehow I got it into my head they were doing this with preschoolers. To do it with seven and ten-year-olds is guaranteed to get you turned in, and damned quickly, too. Could they have been on drugs or something?

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
More details in this article.

Really awful details. Like, quotes from the kids.

Enough details to suggest that these people should not be running a facility for children. Seriously, it doesn't sound like an isolated incident, it sounds like a place that is run badly.

We should always be slightly wary of the impression from media reporting, but it does not look good.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Another article said one of the men was arrested for assault. Given it's Lexington, Kentucky, I'd say the guy is lucky he isn't at this moment bound and gagged and bouncing around in the back of a parent's four- wheel drive vee- hicle with a couple of shovels and picks.

The center wasn't shut down because that would leave 87 kids with nowhere to go in the morning. It seems pretty clear that the two assholes were terminated with extreme prejudice. But that leaves the center further understaffed. Substitutes were probably called in to plug in ratio holes during the transition, but from the sound of things the whole center really needed those monitors to come in. Tney were apparently "supervising" one- year- olds by plopping then down in front of Spongebob and telling them to sit still.

If you Google the center, the first hit is the Facebook page, but under that is the business info for a completely different center. At the same address. It looks like a franchise swooped in and took over the business. More power to them.

And whatever happened to that lady with the 27 kids-- I bet she was relieved that someone called the authorities.

A school I worked at years ago had a director who was accepting kids without listing them on the official school registry, meaning she pocketed the tuition right under the parent organization's nose, until someone bothered to check. Wonder if the same sort of thing was happening at New Creations.

[ 03. October 2016, 06:08: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Oh, fuck me. Not a franchise, an entirely different preschool at the same godforsaken strip mall deluxe that New Creation is in. ALSO under investigation for child abuse.

What the hell, Kentucky! [Mad]

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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Lyda*Rose

Ship's broken porthole
# 4544

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"Monitoring"??!!! [brick wall]

That place needs to be fined up the wassoo! [Mad]

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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano

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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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I am sure lawyers are circling like sharks. This one's a no-brainer, like shooting fish in a barrel. The only hope for the facility and its personnel is declaring bankruptcy. What I hope will happen is criminal prosecution. A little jail time would brighten everybody's day.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Teekeey Misha
Shipmate
# 18604

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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I have some ideas for punishing these men.

quote:
In the link:
...one woman was looking after 27 school-age children...

You only want to punish the men or is there evidence that it was only the men who were actually assaulting the children? Strikes me that "these women" need punishing as much as "these men".

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Misha
Don't assume I don't care; sometimes I just can't be bothered to put you right.

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Meh. They won't know until they do a proper investigation, will they?

So much is going to hinge on who is where on the adminstrative totem pole, and who hired whom, who should be supervising whom, etc.

Simply being an employee there does not mean that the woman was participating or even knew about the crap they were doing. 27 kids at once would keep you kind of focused on your own room.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28

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The article cited in the OP says that "two male workers" were the ones doing the "smack for a snack" thing. Nothing in the article indicates the woman did anything more than be overburdened.

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
"Monitoring"??!!! [brick wall]

That place needs to be fined up the wassoo! [Mad]

The monitoring would be the first step in laying a case for getting the owner's license revoked and evaluating which staff members needed their credentials removed. I am going to assume that the state has already removed the director's credentials.

In defense of the lady with 27 kids-- it would not surprise me at all if a second staff person was MIA on her.

Fining for ratio non - compliance and room capacity violations has doubtless already happened.

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

Posts: 35057 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I am sure lawyers are circling like sharks. This one's a no-brainer, like shooting fish in a barrel. The only hope for the facility and its personnel is declaring bankruptcy. What I hope will happen is criminal prosecution. A little jail time would brighten everybody's day.

The smackers need to see the inside of a jail cell, and they need to be added to the national child abuser index for school clearance. ( It is a federal law that you submit your fingerprints to be scanned into the index prior to hiring.)

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
"Monitoring"??!!! [brick wall]

That place needs to be fined up the wassoo! [Mad]

The monitoring would be the first step in laying a case for getting the owner's license revoked and evaluating which staff members needed their credentials removed. I am going to assume that the state has already removed the director's credentials.

In defense of the lady with 27 kids-- it would not surprise me at all if a second staff person was MIA on her.

Fining for ratio non - compliance and room capacity violations has doubtless already happened.

If they're actually school-age children (as opposed to preschool) this would not be at all unusual. In the US, it is pretty much standard for a single teacher to be in charge of a classroom of 30 or more school-age kids. There will occasionally be an aide if you have any special-ed students, but otherwise that's the norm. Not ideal, but the norm.

Today I was in charge of 25 school-age kids alone. It wasn't awesome, but it was manageable.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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If she was violating a 1:12 ratio, then it would obviously be an age group which needed a 1:12 ratio. That would be preschool, in most states. From the comments in the second article, it sounds like they were serving infant to school age kids-- probably a preschool with an afterschool care component.

Two things:

1.If you know anything about the development of children between age 0- 5, you know that a lower ratio is appropriate. A lower class size is appropriate, too, but liscensing gives people a pass if they have enough teachers per kid. ( most people in the field recognise this is mediocre practice rather than best practice, but often there isn't much choice, staffwise or buildingwise) This is why my assumption was that Lone Teacher had someone walk out on her.

2. Even at school age level, a higher ratio is going to effect class pace and individual attention ( who gets their questions answered, how much time is spent explaining things, physical transitions -- say, passing out worksheets, getting out supplies, etc).

[ 04. October 2016, 14:20: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
If she was violating a 1:12 ratio, then it would obviously be an age group which needed a 1:12 ratio. That would be preschool, in most states. From the comments in the second article, it sounds like they were serving infant to school age kids-- probably a preschool with an afterschool care component.

Two things:

1.If you know anything about the development of children between age 0- 5, you know that a lower ratio is appropriate. A lower class size is appropriate, too, but liscensing gives people a pass if they have enough teachers per kid. ( most people in the field recognise this is mediocre practice rather than best practice, but often there isn't much choice, staffwise or buildingwise) This is why my assumption was that Lone Teacher had someone walk out on her.

2. Even at school age level, a higher ratio is going to effect class pace and individual attention ( who gets their questions answered, how much time is spent explaining things, physical transitions -- say, passing out worksheets, getting out supplies, etc).

oh, yes, I agree. Just trying to put the pieces together.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Fairy nuff. Ratio issues are kind of looming in my mind this week; they got me in a place where the ratio is 3: 21. Two of the children have such severe learning challenges that at any given time they are flinging toys at children or falling into screaming tantrums. It was going on all day, at fifteen minute intervals. Since most of the time two teachers were simultaneously trying to work with each of these two kids, the actual ratio was often 1:19. Not on paper, but for all practical purposes.

Class ratios anywhere far exceed what a normal adult/ child ratio would be in a family. Even back in the days that people had 21 kids, some of those kids would be at or near adulthood, either capable of caring for themselves or capable of being an apprentice caregiver. If a couple has triplets, people marvel at their stamina; a teacher with a class of twelve is supposed to just bring the brilliant and never fuck up, ever.

Personally I think this dynamic sucks at any grade level, but attachment and modeling and basic caregiving are so important at the preschool level, it sucks in a developmentally hinderibg way.

End of rant. Tl;dr, there are all kinds of reasons this story is wrong, wrong wrong , besides the obvious.

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:


End of rant. Tl;dr, there are all kinds of reasons this story is wrong, wrong wrong , besides the obvious.

As if the obvious did not contain quite enough wrong in itself.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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To put it another way, the investigation of the overt abuse provided the opportunity to put a stop to the systematic abuse.

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

Posts: 35057 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged


 
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