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Source: (consider it) Thread: Clocks
The Phantom Flan Flinger
Shipmate
# 8891

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Grumble grumble...do we have to do this every year...grumble grumble...dark nights...grumble grumble...dark mornings...grumble grumble etc.

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http://www.faith-hope-and-confusion.com/

Posts: 1008 | From: Leicester, England | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Oh, Praise Jesus, finally an original thread idea.

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

Posts: 35057 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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Unless you propose altering the axial tilt of the planet, those of us at more extreme latitudes will always have a season when the sun sets early and rises late (and, conversely, a season when it sets late and rises early). If you don't like dark nights and mornings in the winter, join the birds and head south (or north for our southern hemisphere friends).

Shifting the clocks around by an hour does nothing to change the amount of time the sun is above the horizon.

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All I want for Christmas is EU

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Lyda*Rose

Ship's broken porthole
# 4544

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We've got one more week to go. This Brit site had me in a panic that somehow I was going to be late? early? to church. Phooey! Back to bed!

[ 30. October 2016, 12:04: Message edited by: Lyda*Rose ]

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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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I agree - leave the clocks ALONE!!

[Mad]

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Garden. Room. Walk

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rolyn
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# 16840

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Yeah, bloody clocks [Mad]
Controlling our lives like they do. Why not have a rant.

Hard to imagine when people weren't governed by numbers and dials, even Sun dials. Be a job to put them back an hour.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Ariel
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# 58

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Oh, Praise Jesus, finally an original thread idea.

Yes, I don't think we've had one of these before.

We get an extra hour in bed and people are complaining. There will be daylight tomorrow morning when I leave for work. [Yipee]

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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Seriously, if you don't like dark mornings, get up an hour later. That's it. That's the only thing you can do. Otherwise, you're just a whiny mcwhineface.

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Forward the New Republic

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Ariel
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# 58

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Seriously, if you don't like dark mornings, get up an hour later. That's it. That's the only thing you can do. Otherwise, you're just a whiny mcwhineface.

That would be a whiny mcwhineface with a job that they're required to be at by a certain time, probably, but don't let that stop you expressing yourself. [Angel]

[ 30. October 2016, 12:48: Message edited by: Ariel ]

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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But it doesn't need to be that way. The job can just say, "we'll open the office an hour later".

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Forward the New Republic

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Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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Move to Arizona.
[Razz]

(O.K., our politics are batshit crazy, but there's always a trade-off.)

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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Ariel
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# 58

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
The job can just say, "we'll open the office an hour later".

Good point. The only problem with that is that you'd probably have to stay an hour later and go home when it's dark, and with all these killer clowns on the loose, no responsible company is going to take the risk of endangering its staff.

Alternatively, people could attempt to work much faster during the limited hours of daylight so as to cram in the entire day's work into the shorter hours of winter daylight. Obviously, you'd be expected to work much more slowly in the summer.

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
But it doesn't need to be that way. The job can just say, "we'll open the office an hour later".

And if I were in charge that's exactly what would happen, but as I'm not, I enjoy going back to getting up at a reasonable hour every fall and curse Congress every March for screwing up my sleep pattern.

Must be nice being in charge of your own working hours, but many people aren't. Ger a fucking clue.

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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Oh, Praise Jesus, finally an original thread idea.

Well, usually it's people whining about it going the other way, so Totally Different.

Can we start complaining about Christmas yet?

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
Can we start complaining about Christmas yet?

Not until December 1st.

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Forward the New Republic

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Ger a fucking clue.

I've got the t-shirt that goes with it. I'm north enough that I've gone to work in the dark and come home in the dark, because there isn't enough daylight in the day. No amount of clock shifting can fix that.

I can, however, enjoy my mousethief coolers on the patio up till around 11pm in summer. Swings and roundabouts. If I wanted consistency, I'd live on the equator.

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Forward the New Republic

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The Phantom Flan Flinger
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# 8891

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Oh, Praise Jesus, finally an original thread idea.

[Big Grin]

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I agree - leave the clocks ALONE!!

[Mad]

Ooo, a bright spot in the thread. Now I have Pink Floyd running through my head.

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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We don't need no stuuupid clock changes ...
We don't need no clock control ....
Hey, mister, leave those clocks alooooane ..
All in you're just another prick in the hall ...

Hey, mister - leave our clocks ALONE!

(please)

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Garden. Room. Walk

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rolyn
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# 16840

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Nice one Boogie [Smile]

5.45pm and pitch dark. This old Globe we've been given with it's tilted Axis malarkey, it just ain't right.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Barnabas62
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# 9110

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Greenwich Mean Time isn't messing around with our clocks. British Summer time is.

We can't change the numbers of hours of daylight. The further North you go, the less daylight you get in the winter, the more in the summer. All we can change is which time those hours are centred around. Here in Norfolk we get about 7.5 hours of daylight on December 21. In the Orkneys it's about 6.5 hours.

Under GMT in Norfolk on 21 December the sun rises at 8.15, sets at 3.45. For BST, add an hour on to each time.

Under GMT in Orkney on 21 December the sun rises at 8.45, sets at 3.15. For BST add an hour on to each time.

And you can work out your own patterns. Some parts of the UK may be better off keeping BST, others aren't. Arguments about school start and finish times, peak traffic times, start and finish work times are pretty useless. What the effects are just depends on where you live.

Personally I don't mind a government decision to move permanently to GMT+1 for the whole of the UK. But I think we should listen to the voices of the most inconvenienced and recognise that whatever happens is a question of balancing advantages and disadvantages.

We can't get round the 23 degree tilt in the earth's orbit.

[ 30. October 2016, 17:59: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Leorning Cniht
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# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:

Arguments about school start and finish times, peak traffic times, start and finish work times are pretty useless. What the effects are just depends on where you live.

But those are the arguments. And you're right, of course, that they change depending on where you live, but schools only work in their current form if everyone goes at the same time, and everyone expects shops and businesses to be open during "normal" working hours.

The single question is where to place the "normal working hours" in relation to the period of daylight.

(My preference is for a customary time system that places the "normal waking time" at dawn, and counts on from there. You might have a different preference.)

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
We can't get round the 23 degree tilt in the earth's orbit.

No but we can quit fucking with the clock twice a year. It's hard on people. It serves no offsetting purpose. It's outlived its usefulness, if it ever had any. It's time it went the way of the victory garden and the war bond drive.

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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Lyda*Rose

Ship's broken porthole
# 4544

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quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
Move to Arizona.
[Razz]

(O.K., our politics are batshit crazy, but there's always a trade-off.)

True outside the corner of Arizona that belongs to the Navajo who do observe Daylight Savings Time. But you can opt out of Daylight Savings in the Hopi Res. "doughnut hole" in the middle of the Navajo Res. Confused now?

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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Ger a fucking clue.

I've got the t-shirt that goes with it.
If you really think there are a lot of workplaces where they can just change the open/close times by an hour twice a year, you don't.

quote:
I'm north enough that I've gone to work in the dark and come home in the dark, because there isn't enough daylight in the day. No amount of clock shifting can fix that.
Bully for you. I live far enough south that there's enough daylight in the fall and spring for me to go to work and come home in daylight -- but I don't get to do that because the March time change comes too early and the November time change comes too late.

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
No but we can quit fucking with the clock twice a year. It's hard on people. It serves no offsetting purpose. It's outlived its usefulness, if it ever had any. It's time it went the way of the victory garden and the war bond drive.

Could not agree more, but the barbecue and patio furniture industries have way more pull than you and me, so I'm not holding my breath.
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

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My personal preference is just to keep GMT all year round. Nothing is ever going to suit everybody anyway.

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
It's time it went the way of the victory garden and the war bond drive.

I'm assuming a victory garden is the same as an allotment - lots of people have those here and the waiting lists are months long, sometimes years long.
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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
My personal preference is just to keep GMT all year round. Nothing is ever going to suit everybody anyway.

Which is just the same as shifting the time zone one notch east.*

quote:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
It's time it went the way of the victory garden and the war bond drive.

I'm assuming a victory garden is the same as an allotment - lots of people have those here and the waiting lists are months long, sometimes years long.
It was a thing during WW1 (and maybe WW2) where people grew veg for the war effort.

_____________
*or west. Whatevs.

[ 30. October 2016, 19:25: Message edited by: mousethief ]

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Ger a fucking clue.

I've got the t-shirt that goes with it.
If you really think there are a lot of workplaces where they can just change the open/close times by an hour twice a year, you don't.
They choose not to. There's nothing stopping them. The Time Police aren't going to come around and tap their watches menacingly at the owners.

The whole country goes postal every time it get mentioned. "Oh," says the South, "it'd be lovely if we had more daylight." "Get to fuck," says the rest of the country, "It doesn't work like that."

I'm all for picking a time zone and sticking with it, but I'd like to point out when I flew from Chicago to Indianapolis, literally north to south, I had to change my watch yet again.

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Forward the New Republic

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Barnabas62
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# 9110

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Heck, if I lived in California I'd agree with Ruth. Daylight length varies from 10 hours to 14 hours only. Doesn't matter whether you centre that time around noon or 1300.

But these things can get funny and complicated. Apparently there are places in Indiana where some counties observe Central Standard Time, others Eastern Standard time. There was also a Daylight Savings debate. Factors which led to great confusion for Josh, Toby and Donna in "20 hours in America" (West Wing Season 4).

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
They choose not to. There's nothing stopping them. The Time Police aren't going to come around and tap their watches menacingly at the owners.

Except they have to do business with all the other businesses, and unless they all switch together, it's going to fuck up their operations. So it's not as easy as you wish to portray it.

quote:
I'm all for picking a time zone and sticking with it, but I'd like to point out when I flew from Chicago to Indianapolis, literally north to south, I had to change my watch yet again.
Aw, do time zone boundaries not run north-south? [Waterworks]

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

Posts: 63203 | From: Ecotopia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
BroJames
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# 9636

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If you need to alter the times when people do things in relation to the sun, then changing the clocks is an easy way to do it without requiring (e.g.) all the transport utilities to reprint all their timetables to reflect the alteration.
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Except they have to do business with all the other businesses, and unless they all switch together, it's going to fuck up their operations. So it's not as easy as you wish to portray it.

I'm not portraying it as easy. I'm portraying it as possible.

quote:
Aw, do time zone boundaries not run north-south? [Waterworks]
Mostly, yes. Because that's the way the world works. Except in Indiana, apparently.

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Forward the New Republic

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mousethief

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# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Aw, do time zone boundaries not run north-south? [Waterworks]
Mostly, yes. Because that's the way the world works. Except in Indiana, apparently.
And you can think of no reason, none whatsoever, why they might make an exception there?

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Aw, do time zone boundaries not run north-south? [Waterworks]
Mostly, yes. Because that's the way the world works. Except in Indiana, apparently.
And you can think of no reason, none whatsoever, why they might make an exception there?
I did ask. They just rolled their eyes and muttered about how they needed a new State governor.

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Forward the New Republic

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
Move to Arizona.
[Razz]

(O.K., our politics are batshit crazy, but there's always a trade-off.)

Move to Saskatchewan. Our politics are historically socialist, which is probably crazy according to the Arizonians. It's the winters which are crazy, which is of course why we are socialist - snuggling together to stay warm.

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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It has to do in part with keeping Chicago's Indiana suburbs in the same time zone as Chicago, to make it easier for commuters. Not a good reason, perhaps, but it is a reason.

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

Posts: 63203 | From: Ecotopia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mamacita

Lakefront liberal
# 3659

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:

I'm all for picking a time zone and sticking with it, but I'd like to point out when I flew from Chicago to Indianapolis, literally north to south, I had to change my watch yet again.

But you didn't fly literally north to south. You flew southeast. Indianapolis is about 75 miles east of Chicago.

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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.

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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
Can we start complaining about Christmas yet?

Not until December 1st.
I saw an ad on television yesterday for ordering Christmas trees from a farm. Some shops have had Christmas merchandise available since August. Whine, whine.

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Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.

Posts: 9517 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:

I'm all for picking a time zone and sticking with it, but I'd like to point out when I flew from Chicago to Indianapolis, literally north to south, I had to change my watch yet again.

But you didn't fly literally north to south. You flew southeast. Indianapolis is about 75 miles east of Chicago.
I was thinking that didn't sound quite right, but was too lazy to check a map.

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
I did ask. They just rolled their eyes and muttered about how they needed a new State governor.

Indiana does need a new Governor, but PLEASE not by having him become Vice President.

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Except they have to do business with all the other businesses, and unless they all switch together, it's going to fuck up their operations. So it's not as easy as you wish to portray it.

I'm not portraying it as easy. I'm portraying it as possible.
Not possible for all the businesses too small to dictate terms to other businesses. Not possible for all the businesses that have to open at certain hours in order to maximize custom and profit. And certainly not possible for employees whose hours are determined by other people. I can't announce to my boss that I'm going to show up at 9 am after the time change in March simply because it doesn't suit me to get up an hour early.
Posts: 24429 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
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# 1468

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Pigwidgeon--

quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
I did ask. They just rolled their eyes and muttered about how they needed a new State governor.

Indiana does need a new Governor, but PLEASE not by having him become Vice President.
We'd be happy to send you Arnold S. We're not using him anymore.
[Biased]

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Posts: 18174 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Net Spinster
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# 16058

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It is fairly obvious that humans in higher latitudes have to migrate in the winter season. Perhaps every village, town, city should have a sister village, town, city in a more hospitable clime. The population of Glasgow could move to its sister city Havana.

I did check where the equivalent location in the southern hemisphere (at least in latitude) would be, but, I doubt Tierra del Fuego would appeal.

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spinner of webs

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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It's freaking freezing! You want something closer to the equator, not an equal latitude length away!

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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Global warming will fix that.
Posts: 24429 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Net Spinster
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# 16058

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
It's freaking freezing! You want something closer to the equator, not an equal latitude length away!

I was thinking summer to summer. But 55 South is freezing everywhere even though plenty of sunlight in the summer (Glasgow should thank the Gulf Stream). While checking on sister/twin cities I get a feeling that some places overdo it. I mean I thought my town was overdoing it with 6 but Glasgow has 8 (and Havana has apparently 28 [including Mobile, Alabama]).

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spinner of webs

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Gee D
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# 13815

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Just checked - 55 south passes through the very southern tip of Sth America, and then some minor islets. A maritime latitude.

Glasgow is lucky to have the Gulf Stream to keep it as warm as it is - even with that, the climate's pretty awful.

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Glasgow is lucky to have the Gulf Stream to keep it as warm as it is - even with that, the climate's pretty awful.

Well, thank you for your kind assessment of the climate here. We have summers which rarely get to stupid hot temperatures. We have winters that rarely get stupidly cold. We have mountains with cascading waterfalls and lochs, and snow in the winter. We have some storms, but rarely anything that causes damage. We don't have to worry about water shortages or wondering if it's ethically acceptable to water the lawn to keep it green.

You should come and visit. There are some good pubs where there is a very special climate reserved just for pompous asses who want to declare how awful the place is. You might be fortunate enough not to be greeted with a Glasgow kiss.

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Posts: 32189 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
North East Quine

Curious beastie
# 13049

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Originally posted by Gee D:
quote:
Glasgow is lucky to have the Gulf Stream to keep it as warm as it is - even with that, the climate's pretty awful.
Glasgow (a.k.a The Dear Green Place) has rain, lots and lots of rain, but it makes everything green and lush! Swings and roundabouts.
Posts: 6379 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
jacobsen

seeker
# 14998

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Posted by Alan Cresswell:-

You might be fortunate enough not to be greeted with a Glasgow kiss.

Which is?

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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
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The man who made time, made plenty.

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