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Source: (consider it) Thread: The Trumpocalypse from abroad
ThunderBunk

Stone cold idiot
# 15579

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Looking at Ariston's thread, it struck me how the impact of Trump's victory is different according to whether one is unfortunate enough to share his nationality.

We will all be fucked over by the Donaldocracy, but our shafting will be less direct, and altered by domestic considerations. I have no idea what this will do to the crowing going on in the more batshit elements of the European right - I expect some kind of simultaneous explosion from their various lairs.

Meanwhile, we in the UK are being taken over by UKIP-lite, as the Tory party relaxes into its native xenophobia while simultaneously selling the levers of power to the highest bidder in the name of being open for business.

2016, thank you. We're all fucked, each in our own way, and you have handed the entire globe its own bony arse on a mass-produced tin plate, made in an unregulated, polluting sweatshop.

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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".

Foolish, potentially deranged witterings

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
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Hold onto your hat, I don't think it will be less direct. The European fascists will grow in strength boyed by this election, the incidious effects of Donaldism will have a long reach. That's before we even think about the financial markets and possible wars.

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overheard on a Welsh bus-stop: Jesus don't care about you, he's only interested in your soul

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Eutychus
From the edge
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quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
I have no idea what this will do to the crowing going on in the more batshit elements of the European right

I must admit my second thought, after a moment of sympathy for those in the US, is that this will give Marine Le Pen a huge credibility boost.

The scariest thing is that Sarkozy is actually to the right of her on some policies.

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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ThunderBunk

Stone cold idiot
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Agreed, but given that precisely we don't have access to the US judiciary or legislature, and can't use any of the other checks and balances available to its citizens to ameliorate the impact, how do we do it? By what mechanism do we resist? How do we avoid the complacency that says that we can just sit back and watch while this madness remakes the world in its own image?

I just want to wake up. 2016 has to be an extended nightmare, surely?!

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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".

Foolish, potentially deranged witterings

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
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quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
Agreed, but given that precisely we don't have access to the US judiciary or legislature, and can't use any of the other checks and balances available to its citizens to ameliorate the impact, how do we do it? By what mechanism do we resist? How do we avoid the complacency that says that we can just sit back and watch while this madness remakes the world in its own image?

We organise and we refuse to dance along to the tune they're playing. When the Nazis tried to force the Danes to give up their Jews, they all began to wear the hated Nazi symbols for Jews and they helped nearly all of their Jewish neighbours to escape.

Fascists are cowards. They believe in their own rhetoric and that they are strong, but in reality a small number of non co-operators can trip them up. It makes them seriously pissed off, but they can't fight soul power.

quote:
I just want to wake up. 2016 has to be an extended nightmare, surely?!
This is time to declare the year of the Lord's favour and the day of the vengeance of the Lord.

We were born for this time.

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overheard on a Welsh bus-stop: Jesus don't care about you, he's only interested in your soul

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iamchristianhearmeroar
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Not going to be good for any of us. What a shit storm.

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My blog: http://alastairnewman.wordpress.com/

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Eutychus
From the edge
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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
This is time to declare the year of the Lord's favour and the day of the vengeance of the Lord.

The first part, yes. The second part, not so much.

Jesus stopped mid-verse and I think we should too until such time as advised otherwise.

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
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Where the fuck is He, then?

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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mr cheesy
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Use whatever phrases you need to feed your internal reserves of soul force. France is next, you're going to need to build up your spiritual muscles there too.

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overheard on a Welsh bus-stop: Jesus don't care about you, he's only interested in your soul

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
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I think after a blow like this, Christ's followers deserve a huge fucking spectacular Gideon's fleece. Something along the lines of the Dead Sea parting.

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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Eutychus
From the edge
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I think vengeance is God's prerogative.

Kelly, at the risk of being cheesy, Jesus promises to be with us always, even to the end of the age. The Kingdom of God isn't most visible in political institutions and mass media.

It comes in the mustard seed variety of the Holy Spirit being within our weak and sinful hearts, whatever the prevailing context, working within you and me to affect our "neighbour", however insignificant that may appear.

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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mr cheesy
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What Euty said. Don't be bitter Kelly.

We can choose to believe that Jesus has left us in the dark or we can choose to believe in the tiny candle burning in the darkness. Please choose the light.

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overheard on a Welsh bus-stop: Jesus don't care about you, he's only interested in your soul

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Anglican't
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Here's a (contrary) thought: we have a President-Elect who doesn't have to prove himself after a mixed term as Secretary State. We have a President-Elect who appears to be pally towards, rather than antagonistic towards, Russia, and who could do a deal with North Korea without losing face. Is the world actually a little bit safer now?
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mr cheesy
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I think vengeance is God's prerogative.


I can see this is a problematic phrase. But it seems clear to me that the "vengence" of God is dishing out to people what they dish out to others.

Being the loving, caring, counter-cultural hopeful response is being the vengeance.

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overheard on a Welsh bus-stop: Jesus don't care about you, he's only interested in your soul

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
Here's a (contrary) thought: we have a President-Elect who doesn't have to prove himself after a mixed term as Secretary State. We have a President-Elect who appears to be pally towards, rather than antagonistic towards, Russia, and who could do a deal with North Korea without losing face. Is the world actually a little bit safer now?

Erm, no.

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overheard on a Welsh bus-stop: Jesus don't care about you, he's only interested in your soul

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Eutychus
From the edge
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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
Here's a (contrary) thought: we have a President-Elect who doesn't have to prove himself after a mixed term as Secretary State. We have a President-Elect who appears to be pally towards, rather than antagonistic towards, Russia, and who could do a deal with North Korea without losing face. Is the world actually a little bit safer now?

I look forward to seeing how he can "bomb the shit out of ISIS", notaby in Syria, without getting into a confrontation with Russia.

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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Eutychus
From the edge
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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I can see this is a problematic phrase. But it seems clear to me that the "vengence" of God is dishing out to people what they dish out to others.

Not clear to me. And especially not clear to me is taking that vengeance into our own hands.

If we got our just desserts, none of us would be here.

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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mr cheesy
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Not clear to me. And especially not clear to me is taking that vengeance into our own hands.

If we got our just desserts, none of us would be here.

Fascists hate those who disagree and refuse to participate in their other-hatred that loving actions are like pouring hot coals onto their heads. To the one who is consumed by hatred, loving is a form of torture.

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overheard on a Welsh bus-stop: Jesus don't care about you, he's only interested in your soul

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Eutychus
From the edge
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I tend to agree, but this is emphatically not what the NT defines as divine vengeance. See for instance Rom 12:

quote:
Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but leave room for God’s wrath. For it is written: “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” On the contrary, “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him a drink. For in so doing, you will heap burning coals on his head.”…


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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
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OK, let's not keep talking about this tangent, if you don't like the idea of loving actions being God's vengeance, I don't much mind. Do it anyway.

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overheard on a Welsh bus-stop: Jesus don't care about you, he's only interested in your soul

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
What Euty said. Don't be bitter Kelly.

We can choose to believe that Jesus has left us in the dark or we can choose to believe in the tiny candle burning in the darkness. Please choose the light.

Bitter, bitter, bitter. Aids the digestion.

I'm wondering how many kids I worked with this year will be deported. If the Saints gathered round the throne of Heaven can wail,"How long, oh Lord?" I guess I can chime in with them. It's kind of counter- Biblical for you to assume that means I am not choosing the light.

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
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Anyway, sorry, this is the International Horror Show thread. Carry on.

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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Eutychus
From the edge
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Contrary to popular Christian belief and any BS you may have heard about a "root of bitterness", being bitter has an illustrious pedigree and is fully justifiable (certainly seems to be here).

(See Ruth: "call me bitter").

The challenge is indeed in digesting it so it strengthens your resolve rather than rotting your guts.

[Votive]

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
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Stop lecturing me, Euty, I am every bit as Christian as you are. [Smile]

Oh, but before I leave the international Black Hole of Despair thread, can I just thank this hilarious little limey expat fuckstick for being just oh so goddamn funny?

The minute I saw this bit the other night I thought,"Oooh, he better not win, because if he does, I'm gonna reflexively hate John Oliver on sight for, like, two weeks."

(And I actually chuckled at that, Euty, so stop wringing your hands at me.)

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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Eutychus
From the edge
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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Oh, but before I leave the international Black Hole of Despair thread, can I just thank this hilarious little limey expat fuckstick for being just oh so goddamn funny?

That mostly got me a trailer for the latest Dan Brown movie, Inferno [Ultra confused]

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
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Oh, just perfect.

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
We have a President-Elect who appears to be pally towards, rather than antagonistic towards, Russia, and who could do a deal with North Korea without losing face. Is the world actually a little bit safer now?

Ask Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Ukraine, Georgia, etc. if they feel safer now that Putin knows the US won't do anything if he decides to reabsorb them into Russia.

For that matter, ask yourself if you feel safer knowing that a thin-skinned manchild who is incapable of ignoring even the most minor of slights now has access to the launch codes of the second-biggest nuclear arsenal in the world.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
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I also don’t feel safer knowing that Marine Lepen has just seen the racist bigot vote take control of the world’s richest democracy.

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
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I have only a few years' life expectancy, and I (thankfully, in a sad sort of way) don't have any kids or grandkids. If I did, I'd be shit-scared about the sort of world they'd be growing up in...

..but maybe 2017 will end it for us all in a nuclear winter. courtesy of Trump and Putin, infantile idiot tyrants both...

America, what the fuck have you done?

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Wesley J

Silly Shipmate
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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
[...] maybe 2017 will end it for us all in a nuclear winter. [...]

There's a positive side to that, too, ya know. It sure would end Global Warming.

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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)

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Golden Key
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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I think after a blow like this, Christ's followers deserve a huge fucking spectacular Gideon's fleece. Something along the lines of the Dead Sea parting.

Not to mention not having the Bible thrown at them. And not being urged to avoid bitterness while the event is still happening.

Job's friends come to mind...

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Stop lecturing me, Euty, I am every bit as Christian as you are. [Smile]

I am so fucking tired of Eutychus trying to tell people here how to be a Christian. Christians got this asshole elected. And I don't fucking care whether Jesus is still with us or not when this election will cost people their lives.
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Penny S
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I am finding a part of myself going down a path indicated by the title of this thread. I have never, ever, thought that End Times was credible.

We now have someone 'elected' by a crazy system (and I know ours can be just as bad) in which more people vote for one person, and the other, the Anti-Christ, gets in, voted for by the people who have been angling for the apocalypse and think they are on the right side. You know all those nice people who died this year? How many others that aren't celebs have gone? Just suppose the rapture is going to happen in the normal way of going to God?

Please excuse me while I listen to H G Wells postulating the new world after Ragnarok. And ponder the absence of politics specific viruses.

And that I must not fall into the trap of being as nasty as the trumphalists who are sneeringly rejoicing.

[ 09. November 2016, 14:58: Message edited by: Penny S ]

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quetzalcoatl
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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Stop lecturing me, Euty, I am every bit as Christian as you are. [Smile]

I am so fucking tired of Eutychus trying to tell people here how to be a Christian. Christians got this asshole elected. And I don't fucking care whether Jesus is still with us or not when this election will cost people their lives.
That's the bit of the exit poll that made me nearly faint. Was it 80% of evangelicals who voted for the Trumpinator? WTF?

I suppose they justify this with a kind of sleazy sleight of hand, but come on, God, why can't you just shove them in the furnace now? I guess that's not Christian, ha ha. What a pile of steaming horse shite.

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no path

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Eutychus
From the edge
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I will do my best to repent of sanctimoniousness if you will stop lumping me in with the 80%.

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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Bishops Finger
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Despite myself, I can't quite see The Tiny-Fingered Orange Messiah With The Worst Hair Cut Ever as the Anti-Christ.

Most depictions of the Anti-Christ show him as starting off, at least, as Mr. Nice Guy, only showing his true Satanic Colours later on.

TTFOMWTWHCE, however, is ghastly from the outset, as has been plainly shown.

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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quetzalcoatl
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I was going to say something about bullies, and the Stockholm syndrome, but it's just more fucking words, to add to the stinking pile that has been formed recently. I think I need to switch off politics for a while, watch TV, dig my allotment, start not collecting stamps again! Hey, look, I laughed, and didn't cry.

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no path

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I think after a blow like this, Christ's followers deserve a huge fucking spectacular Gideon's fleece. Something along the lines of the Dead Sea parting.

No, it doesn't work that way does it. It is said "where was God at Auschwitz?", which is answered "where was humanity?".

My 88 year old father is having nightmares of fleeing Berlin in 1936. He told me of a newsreel where Hitler was filmed tickling toddlers and laughing with them, asking when Dolfie Groper* will start kissing babies to soften his image and build trust.


*Okay, he didn't call him that.

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Penny S
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# 14768

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Despite myself, I can't quite see The Tiny-Fingered Orange Messiah With The Worst Hair Cut Ever as the Anti-Christ.

Most depictions of the Anti-Christ show him as starting off, at least, as Mr. Nice Guy, only showing his true Satanic Colours later on.

TTFOMWTWHCE, however, is ghastly from the outset, as has been plainly shown.

IJ

We've seen him as ghastly from the off - but many have seen him as their saviour, haven't they?

I must get back to what I am supposed to be doing, which is producing our neighbourhood's newsletter. And the much put off piece about parking, which is what is going to cause rumpuses hereabouts with the few (about 4 out of 142 households) who go straight from noticing the car on the path by their window again to major confrontation with shouting and punches without anything sensible in between. Which I've got to write nicely.

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Wesley J

Silly Shipmate
# 6075

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
[...] TTFOMWTWHCE [...]

Please elaborate?

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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)

Posts: 7225 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
ThunderBunk

Stone cold idiot
# 15579

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
The Tiny-Fingered Orange Messiah With The Worst Hair Cut Ever



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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".

Foolish, potentially deranged witterings

Posts: 2111 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010  |  IP: Logged
Wesley J

Silly Shipmate
# 6075

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I'm thunderstruck. Ta and oh dear.

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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)

Posts: 7225 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840

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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I was going to say something about bullies, and the Stockholm syndrome, but it's just more fucking words, to add to the stinking pile that has been formed recently. I think I need to switch off politics for a while, watch TV, dig my allotment, start not collecting stamps again! Hey, look, I laughed, and didn't cry.

My sentiments as well.
It's days like today when I'm glad to have an outdoor job to go to, even if it is pissing with rain.

I would though like to take this opportunity to call Opinion Polls to Hell. I mean WTF waste of time and fucking money that was. It wasn't won by a whisker, it was a convincing defeat for Clinton, the exact opposite of what Pollsters were consistently telling the World right up to just 24hrs ago.

Whatever.

[ 09. November 2016, 18:07: Message edited by: rolyn ]

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967

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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Was it 80% of evangelicals who voted for the Trumpinator? WTF?

I suppose they justify this with a kind of sleazy sleight of hand, but come on, God, why can't you just shove them in the furnace now? I guess that's not Christian, ha ha. What a pile of steaming horse shite.

To be fair, it was hardly as if Hillary was interested in the evangelical vote. She never even pretended to care about evangelicals, did she?

IMO this outcome shows how weak American evangelicals have become. If no one on the Right could find a convincing Christian candidate with broad appeal, but had to take a coarse, unspiritual, blatantly unpleasant character as their saviour instead, it just proves how deeply in the doo-doo they are. (But why couldn't the Democrats have found a more engaging candidate themselves?)

Not sure I'm too shocked and worried, because the world was heading for hell in a handcart anyway, and maybe it just means the old church ladies were right: Jesus is coming back soon....

Posts: 6340 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012  |  IP: Logged
Louise
Shipmate
# 30

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
Here's a (contrary) thought: we have a President-Elect who doesn't have to prove himself after a mixed term as Secretary State. We have a President-Elect who appears to be pally towards, rather than antagonistic towards, Russia, and who could do a deal with North Korea without losing face. Is the world actually a little bit safer now?

You are George Galloway and I claim my five pounds. [Killing me]

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Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.

Posts: 6891 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
molopata

The Ship's jack
# 9933

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What was the voter turn out, actually? I mean, has anyone seen any estimates? All I can see is that there are three states that are still uncalled, as if they said, "it's no fucking good anyway", and then just walked a way from heaps of unsorted ballot papers.

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... The Respectable

Posts: 1713 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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I've seen figures that barely scrape 55%.

Which, frankly, is shameful.

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Get your arse to Mars

Posts: 8700 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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I've seen figures even lower, at around 52%. If you can't even get half the adult population to vote, is there some mechanism to declare the result void and start again with a new set of candidates?

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

Posts: 31965 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
molopata

The Ship's jack
# 9933

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If so, that might go along way to explaining what went wrong. Too many people didn't hold their noses and just vote Hillary like they should have, being too principled and not prepared to go for the lesser of the two evils like the rather more pragmatic French did in Chirac vs. Le Pen in the 2002 presidential election.

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... The Respectable

Posts: 1713 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
molopata

The Ship's jack
# 9933

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I might actually take heart from that. It is not a exactly a resounding endorsement for Trump (or Clinton, of course), if the silent majority is so silent it hardly bothers vote.
If this point can be made loud enough, then maybe it might just force T to work hard in order to satisfy them and perhaps get their mandate for a second four years.

There again, that might just be me fantasising in a fit of fevered desperation.

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... The Respectable

Posts: 1713 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged



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