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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Black Friday
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Teekeey Misha:
You want to believe the "bargain 'fridge fest" that is Black Friday is really about buying presents for your loved ones, rather than a(nother) cynical manipulation of consumers, then go ahead. Ignorance, they say, is bliss; enjoy your bliss.
Sorry, that dog just won't hunt, unless your point is we're all mindless automatons who do what marketers tell us to do. The problem is that you're the only one talking about what Black Friday is "about." Sure, call it a cynical manipulation by marketers. But marketers wouldn't use this particular approach (buy gifts for the people you love) unless they knew it would resonate with what people actually want to do.
It went like this: Uncle Pete (with a noticeable whiff of snark) asked why Americans shop the day after Thanksgiving—not why merchants have sales on BF, but why Americans take advantage of those sales.
RuthW accurately said Americans do so to buy Christmas presents. (No, no one will claim that's why every American who shops on BF does so, but we're all saying that's far and away the main reason.).
You called BS on RuthW's statement. And your call was nit-picking BS.
[ 04. December 2016, 12:13: Message edited by: Nick Tamen ]
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
As an American consumer my idea is:
I am in sole charge of my money. You may offer me deals, create an enticing store display, ply me with free chocolate samples, get down on your knees and plead, or pelt me with emails. These may or may not have any effect, and I am not obliged to pay attention to any of it.
I reserve to myself, solely, the right to reject your offerings. It is not my duty to explain to you why. If it is your politics, your advertised prejudices against some group or cause, your location, your lighting fixtures, your annoying advertisements, or your prices -- you figure it out. Not my job to help you.
Seasonal issues have no impact, except when they do. If the cat chews up one of my gloves I may be driven to go buy another pair. If I need some shirts I may well take advantage of your post Thanksgiving sale. But I decide. Offer whatever you want. I am throwing away your advertising inserts and turning off your commercials.
I am not driven by price, but by what I want. Give me exactly what I want and I will buy it. Close is not good enough; my desires are fanatically precise. However, my time is too valuable for me to tell you about them. Figure it out, or not.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Teekeey Misha
Shipmate
# 18604
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
It went like this:
Uncle Pete (with a noticeable whiff of snark) asked why Americans shop the day after Thanksgiving—not why merchants have sales on BF, but why Americans take advantage of those sales.
RuthW accurately said Americans do so to buy Christmas presents. (No, no one will claim that's why every American who shops on BF does so, but we're all saying that's far and away the main reason.)
Nice try but your "It went like this:" is a pretty slanted summary. Try this for size:
Uncle Pete asked (with a noticeable whiff of snark) not why Americans take advantage of those sales but why "they flock to the stores, en masse, the day after giving thanks for what they already have, in abundance."
RuthW said (with a bucket and a half of snark) "to buy Christmas presents" but was more concerned with knifing Pete in the gut for his perceived anti-Americanism.
quote:
The problem is that you're the only one talking about what Black Friday is "about."
"The reason people do X" strikes me as being much the same as "What X is about." That would mean both Pete and Ruth were "talking about what Black Friday is 'about'" before I commented, since when Poncho, Twilight, Goldfish Stew, Pigwidgeon, Mousethief, Golden Key and Lamb Chopped all talked about "what Black Friday is about". One post on the thread, I note, says:
quote:
It's fine to say Black Friday is about buying and selling.
I wonder who wrote that?
Then the thread descended into a general whine about perceived cross-pond insults, before Twilight told us how she had "got caught up in that one Christmas season and was buying stuff like men's pajamas which I knew full well they did not want". I know exactly what she means. It's as if we're all mindless automatons who do what marketers tell us to do...
quote:
...unless your point is we're all mindless automatons who do what marketers tell us to do.
Oh! Fancy that!
And you think we're not? Fine, you're entitled to your opinion and you're entitled to express it. Disagreeing with your opinion isn't "nitpicking"; it's disagreeing with you. Get over it.
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Misha
Don't assume I don't care; sometimes I just can't be bothered to put you right.
Posts: 296 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2016
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Fuck yourself, Masha.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Teekeey Misha
Shipmate
# 18604
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Fuck yourself, Masha.
Oh my. See how I quake with fear as I'm torn apart by the legendary intelligence and incisive wit of the rodent. Not.
Are you going to threaten to beat me up the playground next, Moosethief?
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Misha
Don't assume I don't care; sometimes I just can't be bothered to put you right.
Posts: 296 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2016
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
You're as thin-skinned as Donald Trump. Never stop.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
Not really anything to get over, Misha. My life goes on just fine, regardless of whether you know what you're talking about here. Bless your heart.*
And yes, I did say "It's fine to say Black Friday is about buying and selling." I was trying to work with your fixation on what the day is "about," even though I also said I don't think that word really fits. But it seems, for some reason, to matter to you.
As for RuthW's snark, it came after she said people go shopping to buy gifts. But your slant or mine, Uncle Pete's question was still about what motivates shoppers, not merchants and advertisers, as was RuthW's answer. Nothing asking what Black Friday is "about." Nice try yourself, though.
For the record, I don't care what opinion you hold—though yes, I completely disagree with the opinion that we're automatons. And it's not your opinion itself that's nit-picking. It's anchoring that opinion on some idea that what the day is "about" is linked solely to merchants' motives that's nit-picking.
* Yes, strong whiff of snark there.
[ 04. December 2016, 19:34: Message edited by: Nick Tamen ]
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Teekeey Misha:
RuthW said (with a bucket and a half of snark) "to buy Christmas presents" but was more concerned with knifing Pete in the gut for his perceived anti-Americanism.
"Perceived"?
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Fuck yourself, Masha.
Wouldn't that be Misha?
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Alt Wally
Cardinal Ximinez
# 3245
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Posted
Black Friday is not just about Christmas shopping, it's generally perceived to be about Christmas shopping for those of lesser means. People are not lining up for "door busters" at Saks and Neiman Marcus at 6 p.m. on Thursday.
Posts: 3684 | Registered: Aug 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alt Wally:
Black Friday is not just about Christmas shopping, it's generally perceived to be about Christmas shopping for those of lesser means. People are not lining up for "door busters" at Saks and Neiman Marcus at 6 p.m. on Thursday.
But Black Friday is not the same thing as the absurd door-buster sales. They shouldn't be equated. Lots of people go shopping at other places than the big box stores with their $1 refrigerators. People may shop at Saks who turn up their noses at the campers outside the Walmart.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Latchkey Kid
Shipmate
# 12444
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Posted
I agree with you Simontoad.
Black Friday evokes the aftermath of horrific bushfires, burnt houses and fire service volunteers. But, like Christmas, commercial interests have no qualms in bastardising it.
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'You must never give way for an answer. An answer is always the stretch of road that's behind you. Only a question can point the way forward.'
Mika; in Hello? Is Anybody There?, Jostein Gaardner
Posts: 2592 | From: The wizardest little town in Oz | Registered: Mar 2007
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Re the association with Australian wildfires:
Maybe get in touch with whatever retailers' associations there are? Write someone at a store's corporate office? Start a Twitter campaign?
FWIW.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
Yeah, I reckon such a move would be successful - the social media thing - to stop it. I might ask a tweenie to do it - one of those passionate young ones. My style is more just to slag off about it from the couch.
The Black Friday sale thing is egregious in the extreme though, but only in an Australian context as far as I can tell.
It's almost but not quite as bad as a Casino building a Christmas display to rival the Christmas windows of a department store so that it can use family values to help destroy families. Awwww, how cute! The department store in question has been doing its Christmas windows since 1956.
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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