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Source: (consider it) Thread: Veiled in flesh the Martin see
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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Behold, denizens of Hell, I bring you tidings of great joy, for unto us this day is brought Martin60 - straight from the right hand of the Father.

Yes, while you and I poor mortals were bumbling along in our unenlightenedness and godless stupidity, thousands of miles beneath his all-knowing intellect and as we are repeatedly told, "ten thousand years" behind, Martin60 and God were watching telly together.

As befits someone sharing the couch with God, he is unknowable and paradoxical, asking you for information even as he enjoins you not to answer:
quote:
Why do you ask? (That's rhetorical btw).
But fear not. Help, or at least incarnationality is at hand.

Yes, Martin has come down to earth to dwell among us.

Of course, coming straight from the Father, he is more than a little patronising
quote:
Bravo mon brave [Smile]
and may sometimes express frustration at how slow we disciples are to understand
quote:
Sod me man! How many times? Of COURSE I believe in the miracle and miracles of Jesus and the disciples.
and if we still don’t understand, well of course it’s our fault; as our pathetic maths teachers used to tell us, all we need to do is go away and think about it hard enough and Martin in all his mystery will be revealed unto us:
quote:
Why do you ask? You decide. All the information you need is in front of you. Again. As always.
Then, too, there are the sort of mysterious one-line epigrams one might occasionally expect from a freshly-incarnated divine being:
quote:
Moses' face glowed
Not quite "I am who I am", admittedly, but there can be no doubt, this divine presence is among us! Veiled in flesh the Martin see!

But lest we be provoked to idolatry on his account (and, incidentally, in a piece of emotional blackmail sure to see off any challenges, or indeed claims of blasphemy) he makes sure to emphasise how supremely bad he is at this incarnational business. Never mind that he would be better getting a blog for all that stuff.

So you do what you do. You chuck in a [Votive] from time to time and add an extra measure of patience when asking for clarification. When he finally gives you some and you thank him instead of calling him to Hell like you should have done the first time, you get this gem
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Thanks for being more explicit. It really makes a difference.

You and your bloody graciousness.
And when you dare to suggest that this conciliatory response might put an end to dialogue, you get told that was merely Martin’s
quote:
puckish sense of humour
(Or perhaps there’s a spelling mistake there?)

You then get a follow-up by PM which is not an apology, but another one-line epigram which according to the Cambridge English Dictionary is "used to tell someone angrily not to do something", which I suppose is befitting for a near-deity responding to his minions.

So you go to ask for clarification off the boards, by PM - and, as we might expect from the non-interventionist God in whom Martin60 believes, his PM box is full.

Martin, you may be pleased as man with man to dwell, but I am seriously pissed off with you.

Can you manage to explain yourself without being enigmatic, gnomic, self-pitying, or egomaniacal? Sir?

--------------------
One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Can you manage to explain yourself without being enigmatic, gnomic, self-pitying, or egomaniacal? Sir?

Leopard. Spots. Immutability.

ETA: I am reminded of Andreas/Andrew/Andy/whatever, a shipmate of some while back, who emerged on the board claiming to be Orthodox. He was insufferably self-congratulatory, all-knowing, and rude.

Then he had an epiphany and became an atheist. And he was insufferably self-congratulatory, all-knowing, and rude.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. The more one thing changes, the more something else stays the same.

[ 14. December 2016, 12:40: Message edited by: mousethief ]

--------------------
God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Can you manage to explain yourself without being enigmatic, gnomic, self-pitying, or egomaniacal? Sir?

He can, but he won't. A classic case of hiding insipidness behind a veneer of obfuscation.

--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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I watched the conversation Eutychus and knew you would become frustrated.

Martin has no more answers than I do, he just has a more poetic, enigmatic way of saying so.

--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk

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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

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Eutychus. I'm sorry.

--------------------
Love wins

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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Enigmatic as ever. What for?

--------------------
One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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Martin60
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# 368

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Making you extremely pissed off.

--------------------
Love wins

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Martin60
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# 368

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By being enigmatic, gnomic, self-pitying and egomaniacal.

[ 14. December 2016, 15:17: Message edited by: Martin60 ]

--------------------
Love wins

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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Yeah, well that's not good enough. As it stands, that's self-centred remorse, not genuine regret.

If you want our relations to become anywhere near normal again, that would involve considering just why you have made me extremely pissed off, whether I'm justified in my pissed-offness, and whether you are going to do anything about it.

I would have much preferred this to be resolved privately, but the final insult that made me consider coming here was very public, and I couldn't respond to your PM, the content of which I judge to have been manipulative and not apologetic in the slightest, so here we are.

Besides, I'm not the only one having to put up with this kind of crap lately, so I think going public might be worthwhile.

[x-post but most of the above still applies]

[ 14. December 2016, 15:24: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

--------------------
One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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You can't stop yourself, can you?

You can't make a compliment without an implicit criticism and an added dash of patronising.

[and, for clarity, the post linked to here was written AFTER your last one above]

[ 14. December 2016, 15:48: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

--------------------
One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

Posts: 15912 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
By being enigmatic, gnomic, self-pitying and egomaniacal.

So you're God then?
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

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OK Eutychus. I'm pissed off now. Must be the weather. Got pissed off last night too. Metaphorical weather. Most unlike me. Other nastiness is like me. But we mustn't talk about my unincarnationality must we? Which I use to offset any appearance of a claim to incartionality.

My ever popular inbox has space.

From me to shadeson, that's praise indeed (it's called litotes I think you'll find) as he's not above shooting from the hip, good for him. His heaven approximates to mine despite his earlier reactions, which were making me go slitty eyed wondering if he were a damnationist.

I think you got some weather going on too.

I'm nonetheless still sorry my insipidity (the better word MtM) has got under your skin despite other takes being possible.

And no... yes.

--------------------
Love wins

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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815

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Does anyone have an English translation of Martin's latest post - and yes, I do know what litotes means, it's the rest I have trouble with.

[ 14. December 2016, 19:36: Message edited by: Gee D ]

--------------------
Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Does anyone have an English translation of Martin's latest post - and yes, I do know what litotes means, it's the rest I have trouble with.

Yes.

Every post says the same - "I don't know, but I still believe and I do my best to love in my unbelief"

Why does he wrap it up in obscurities and vague language? Because he's not willing to appear thick/lacking thought/untheological/less holy/less humble/whatever.

It's something of a smokescreen.

--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk

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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

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"incartionality", hmmm. That's the lo-sodium salt version. That doesn't help. Loses its savour. But nothing would except a terrifying moment of lucidity I s'pose? Na.

--------------------
Love wins

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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Why is lucidity terrifying?

--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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Not sure about the why, but finding lucidity terrifying certainly would explain Martin's posting style.

--------------------
And I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad
The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had

- Roland Orzabal

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
My ever popular inbox has space.

So has mine. I think the ball's in your court here. Now that I've chosen this forum through lack of any other choice at the time, that's where I'm keeping this for now.

quote:
I think you got some weather going on too.
Whether I have or not is irrelevant to your rudeness and whether or not you are going to do something about it.

quote:
(the better word MtM)
Would it really be so difficult not to use non-standard acronyms? More obfuscation.

quote:
And no... yes.
And this epitomises why I'm not letting go on this or caving in to my indulgent side in response to your brief flashes of humanity.

Seriously, why do you insist on posting such drivel? What is it supposed to add to your post?

As far as I can see it's you trying - and increasingly failing - to appear mysterious for mysteriousness' sake.

I would be tempted to excuse you as not being able to do better, but what really removed the scales from my eyes, as I said at the time, and is making me even madder now, was this post.

With your back against the wall, in fear of being banned and losing your little playground here, you suddenly developed 100% clarity and lucidity, doubtless because as you saw it, you had no option if you were going to survive here.

Thus proving that you are capable of clarity - if you set your mind to it and it suits your needs.

Instead - and in defiance of the responses on that thread - you apparently delve into your dictionary of oxymorons and antonyms to maintain an air of guru-like superiority, constantly positioning the rest of us as your initiates. You don't just do this from time to time, you do this more often than not. It's your persona. It's cultic, and the more it goes on, the more vapid it appears.

It's also utterly selfish. Most long-term posters around here have learned the basics of communication in this medium: attempting to be clear, asking for clarification, reformulation, and so on. All this appears to be beneath you.

And when I patiently get you to be a little clearer, and thank you for doing so, I get insulted in return. That feels cultic to me, too. I am through with making the effort and sustaining the damage.

This makes me all the madder in that I'm convinced that somewhere under all that, you have some genuine insights and could form an even more valuable part of this community. But unless you change (I submit: in favour of being more of who you really are, as evidenced by that Styx post), I suspect that increasing numbers of people will simply scroll past your posts.

Including me (speaking as a shipmate. As a Host I have to read the wretched things).

--------------------
One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

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What's worse, happy as la-la-la-la-la-Larry dementia or dementia with utterly random rationality with memory of the dementia and the dementia with memory of the rationality? I used to get morphine grade IBS attacks one day at a time with one or two days in between. Torture on torture. Two nights clear always meant four hours torture from midnight. Completely psychosomatic too. Talk about punishing yourself. Positively Dantean.

Analagous for being a prat on SOF.

--------------------
Love wins

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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What would be better, in my view, would be less self-indulgence and more comprehensible interaction. Your post above displays no interaction; none at all.

--------------------
One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815

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Again, an English translation please. This latest is totally meaningless, Perhaps I should conclude that you have nothing to say but want to say something.

--------------------
Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
(the better word MtM)
Would it really be so difficult not to use non-standard acronyms? More obfuscation.

Ah. light dawns. And darkness. And grammar nazism. Insipidity or insipidness. And pronunciation communism. THAT. For most of you. Except YOU. As I saw in XP201D on Thursday. Friday. Wazzocks all, aye, including me (meaning thee, of course). And he DOES.

--------------------
One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

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Come on guys. This is Hell. All round. Fair shares for all.

...

I'll see what I can do.

In the words of Radar O'Reilly, that is all.

--------------------
Love wins

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
It's something of a smokescreen.

It's something of passive aggressive.

--------------------
God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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Perhaps it is better to be obscure and be thought an arsehole than to be clear and remove all doubt.

--------------------
God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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No. Clear arseholes have the advantage of not playing mysterious mind games with you.

--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Come on guys. This is Hell. All round. Fair shares for all.

Over 30 years of marriage have taught me the following:

a) that saying "I'm sorry" without detailing what for and what steps one is going to take not to do the thing in question again is of no use at all

b) that retaliating by saying "I may annoy you but you do this bad thing" - which is the implication I take from "Hell all round" and "fair shares for all" - makes things worse.

We are here to have out something I have against you, not hand out "fair shares". I've called you on repeated unacceptable posting and a direct insult, not the other way around.

Yet another deflective, elliptical, non-interacting post from you, in the face of your proven ability to be perfectly lucid if you can be bothered, gives me no confidence whatsoever that you have understood the problem or are going to change your ways.

--------------------
One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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W Hyatt
Shipmate
# 14250

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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
"incartionality", hmmm. That's the lo-sodium salt version. That doesn't help. Loses its savour. But nothing would except a terrifying moment of lucidity I s'pose? Na.

Now that one I understand! [Killing me] Very clever, indeed! [Cool]

--------------------
A new church and a new earth, with Spiritual Insights for Everyday Life.

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Perhaps it is better to be obscure and be thought an arsehole than to be clear and remove all doubt.

I said the same thing, but my view is that Martin60 has no answers but wants to be seen to have answers - therefore shrouds his posts in amusing (to him and sometimes to us) obscurity.

The problem comes when he shrouds insults in the same obscurity - and, yes, that's passive aggressive.

--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk

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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

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'strewth, one can't be passive aggressive even in Hell?

No, not in this case.

Eutychus. You're right. Again. Regardless. I take full responsibility for provoking you. Again. I am sorry. Again.

And Boogie and everyone else, you're wrong. I DO know. I have no doubt whatsoever that God does not intervene except through His spirit working normatively in us and I will clear up my stupid-compulsive, toying, aggressive play act with you Eutychus as I have tried to with mr cheesy and mdijon recently.

Woe, woe and thrice self piteous woe, I find it extremely difficult NOT to throw questions back or be orthogonal to them with one liners. Leopards, spots as the ship's rare maculate thieving rodent knows.

It's the only way I know to stop Jamat in his tracks. I must learn a better way. At 62 it ain't going to be easy.

And thanks W Hyatt, but there is a mote in my eye there, the 'salt' over eggs the pudding don't you think?

--------------------
Love wins

Posts: 14972 | From: More Corieltauvi than Dobunni now. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
My ever popular inbox has space.

So has mine. I think the ball's in your court here. Now that I've chosen this forum through lack of any other choice at the time, that's where I'm keeping this for now.

quote:
I think you got some weather going on too.
Whether I have or not is irrelevant to your rudeness and whether or not you are going to do something about it.

quote:
(the better word MtM)
Would it really be so difficult not to use non-standard acronyms? More obfuscation.

quote:
And no... yes.
And this epitomises why I'm not letting go on this or caving in to my indulgent side in response to your brief flashes of humanity.

Seriously, why do you insist on posting such drivel? What is it supposed to add to your post?

As far as I can see it's you trying - and increasingly failing - to appear mysterious for mysteriousness' sake.

I would be tempted to excuse you as not being able to do better, but what really removed the scales from my eyes, as I said at the time, and is making me even madder now, was this post.

With your back against the wall, in fear of being banned and losing your little playground here, you suddenly developed 100% clarity and lucidity, doubtless because as you saw it, you had no option if you were going to survive here.

Thus proving that you are capable of clarity - if you set your mind to it and it suits your needs.

Instead - and in defiance of the responses on that thread - you apparently delve into your dictionary of oxymorons and antonyms to maintain an air of guru-like superiority, constantly positioning the rest of us as your initiates. You don't just do this from time to time, you do this more often than not. It's your persona. It's cultic, and the more it goes on, the more vapid it appears.

It's also utterly selfish. Most long-term posters around here have learned the basics of communication in this medium: attempting to be clear, asking for clarification, reformulation, and so on. All this appears to be beneath you.

And when I patiently get you to be a little clearer, and thank you for doing so, I get insulted in return. That feels cultic to me, too. I am through with making the effort and sustaining the damage.

This makes me all the madder in that I'm convinced that somewhere under all that, you have some genuine insights and could form an even more valuable part of this community. But unless you change (I submit: in favour of being more of who you really are, as evidenced by that Styx post), I suspect that increasing numbers of people will simply scroll past your posts.

Including me (speaking as a shipmate. As a Host I have to read the wretched things).

Sorry, missed that, I need you to understand that I wasn't being nasty at all, 'just' comically so, in my "You and your bloody graciousness.". But it gets lost in all the other ... push back. You were being very gracious. I meant that. Most patient. Too patient, too gracious for your own good for too long perhaps and that's my fault for putting you in that position.

I'm sorry.

Please launch straight away when I do it again. Don't be patient with me, no need.

--------------------
Love wins

Posts: 14972 | From: More Corieltauvi than Dobunni now. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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Thank you. Those two posts go a long way towards resolving this.

Just a couple of things:
quote:
I wasn't being nasty at all, 'just' comically so, in my "You and your bloody graciousness."
I'm prepared to accept that, but I think you really need to consider just how this came across, which was as an almost physical slap in the face.

There's a reason we invite people to stop and think before posting. I've lost count of the number of posts, sometimes quite long ones, I've thrown away before hitting the post button.

Again, 30 plus years of marriage have taught me that absence of intent to harm does not mean no harm done, and maintaining a relationship requires that fact to be acknowledged and factored in in future exchanges.
quote:
Please launch straight away when I do it again. Don't be patient with me, no need.
As you can imagine, crafting that OP took me quite some time.

I reserve the right to do it again if I see fit, but I think the onus is legitimately on you to put in the work to stop me (or anyone else, I'm hardly in a minority here) having to go to all that effort.

Just because we're enjoined to forgive 490 times does not grant licence to offenders to offend 489 times.

See what I mean?

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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Martin60
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Yes, thank you very much Eutychus. It's wrong of me to be hard work. I am in my own front room too ...

[ 15. December 2016, 13:55: Message edited by: Martin60 ]

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Love wins

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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It's his appalling vanity that annoys me most. Passive aggression is the norm on t'interweb, but Martin60 adds vanity to the mix.

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If someone takes a shot at President Trump will his bodyguards shout "Donald Duck"?

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Eutychus
From the edge
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Yes, thank you very much Eutychus. It's wrong of me to be hard work.

Thank you for this.

Peace.

Hosts, I'm done here as far as my OP is concerned.

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
'strewth, one can't be passive aggressive even in Hell?

I don't think mt or boogie were referencing Hell. Kinda think you know that.

Nice that you and Euty are chums again, but this thread will return as inevitably as the Grinchmas threads.
Three of the whinging things this year! Enough Christmas moaning to make the baby Jesus crawl back into the womb and forget the whole thing.

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And I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad
The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had

- Roland Orzabal

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Martin60
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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
It's his appalling vanity that annoys me most. Passive aggression is the norm on t'interweb, but Martin60 adds vanity to the mix.

Do I not have something to be vain about? Or rather about which to be vain? So as not to finish a sentence with a preposition of course.

[ 15. December 2016, 17:06: Message edited by: Martin60 ]

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Love wins

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Erroneous Monk
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
"incartionality", hmmm. That's the lo-sodium salt version. That doesn't help. Loses its savour. But nothing would except a terrifying moment of lucidity I s'pose? Na.

Martin60 is The Sunday Times cryptic crossword setter and I claim my £5.

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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Martin, here I can say it, so: Fuck off.

Stop flatly contradicting every bloody thing I say, without offering so much as a smidgen of evidence or logic to back you up.

Stop telling me what my own experience has been.

Stop making divine pronouncements on truth as if you had just come down from Mt. Sinai.

In short, stop being an asshole.

(and if you bloody compliment me in order to get out of the current hole you're digging, I'll be back to go ballistic on your ass.)

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
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*opens popcorn*

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Lost in Space

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lilBuddha
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I suppose since my prediction is only a few posts up and this thread hasn't been mothballed, it might be too early to say "I told you so", but...

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And I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad
The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had

- Roland Orzabal

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Lordy lord, Marty, I would not want to be you right now

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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Gee D
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# 13815

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How about this one from Martin, on the Purg thread about bereavement:

Less is more. Less supernatural claims, less accompanying exclusion, literalism, damnationism creates space for more of the beatitudes, more incarnationality, more inclusive trajectory with confidence within and beyond this life.

Heaven can wait.

The trouble is we're so bad at doing the more that I doubt that the less would help. There seems to have to be a lot of the less for there to be any of the more.


Does that mean anything, or is it just Martin trying to look mysterious and mystic at the same time, disclosing some hidden truth?

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Does that mean anything, or is it just Martin trying to look mysterious and mystic at the same time, disclosing some hidden truth?

And, perhaps more importantly, who cares?

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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Gee D
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Good point.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Goldfish Stew
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quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
How about this one from Martin, on the Purg thread about bereavement:

Less is more. Less supernatural claims, less accompanying exclusion, literalism, damnationism creates space for more of the beatitudes, more incarnationality, more inclusive trajectory with confidence within and beyond this life.

Heaven can wait.

The trouble is we're so bad at doing the more that I doubt that the less would help. There seems to have to be a lot of the less for there to be any of the more.


Does that mean anything, or is it just Martin trying to look mysterious and mystic at the same time, disclosing some hidden truth?

How about starting with less wordiness and more content? Isn't that what people are asking the boy for?

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.

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jacobsen

seeker
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
It's his appalling vanity that annoys me most. Passive aggression is the norm on t'interweb, but Martin60 adds vanity to the mix.

Do I not have something to be vain about? Or rather about which to be vain? So as not to finish a sentence with a preposition of course.
Pillock.

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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.

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Martin60
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Your servant ma'am.

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Love wins

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Martin60
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quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Martin, here I can say it, so: Fuck off.

Stop flatly contradicting every bloody thing I say, without offering so much as a smidgen of evidence or logic to back you up.

Stop telling me what my own experience has been.

Stop making divine pronouncements on truth as if you had just come down from Mt. Sinai.

In short, stop being an asshole.

(and if you bloody compliment me in order to get out of the current hole you're digging, I'll be back to go ballistic on your ass.)

God bless you Lamb Chopped. Your husband's story works for him and you as divine intervention based on New Testament precedent for you. I see no basis of comparison, no overlapping category whatsover. Our framing stories are implacably, invincibly other. Where do we go from here? How do we go forward together as part of the body of Christ to the world? I can't reach let alone touch you for incarnationality. I honour that story regardless. Your story of how you got there is irrelevant. Can't work for me. But you are there. The utter inadequacy of the story of how you got there does not detract from you being there. That should impress you. I don't doubt your incarnationality for a moment.

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Love wins

Posts: 14972 | From: More Corieltauvi than Dobunni now. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Fuck off, Martin. I told you not to compliment me. Stop that shit right now. "Honoring our incarnationality" is no substitute for treating me like any other poster on that thread.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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