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» Ship of Fools   » Community discussion   » Hell   » We can't have Muslims celebrating Australia Day (Page 2)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: We can't have Muslims celebrating Australia Day
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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Denmark: Constitution Day, 5 June.

"It recognises the signing of the first Danish Constitution on 5 June 1849 and celebrates the most recent, on 5 June 1953."

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orfeo

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# 13878

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ADDENDUM: Given that Norway's Constitution Day (May 17) appears to be the basis for colouring in Norway on that map, Denmark missing out is just dumb.

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
If it is, there will be a number of people holding out not to celebrate it.

Or, "celebrate" in the same manner that indigenous Australians remember invasion day.

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Denmark: Constitution Day, 5 June.

"It recognises the signing of the first Danish Constitution on 5 June 1849 and celebrates the most recent, on 5 June 1953."

Wikipedia [Disappointed]

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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No, that isn't where I went.

[ 24. January 2017, 21:53: Message edited by: orfeo ]

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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Sorry, I meant it's where the map that's clearly incorrect came from.

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815

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Going back to the intent of my question, and ignoring various oddities in the map Alan Cresswell found. Every country except the UK seems to consider that there is need for a national day of some sort. Most are independence related. The Portuguese selection of the death-day of an eminent poet is interesting but is Henry Lawson an appropriate person?

Orfeo has said why 1 January would not be popular. The Australia Acts of 1886 (which ended the last vestiges of British control of Aust constitutional and other legal matters) both came into force at 1600 on 3 March 1986, but the basis of that legislation is so arcane that virtually no-one in the general population would understand it. That's an unsuitable date.

Is there any other? I think not and we're left with what Orfeo's been trying to explain - that we observe 26 January noting the very different meanings that day has for various groups in today's society.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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The UK doesn't have a national day. But the constituent parts of the UK do - and the two communities in Northern Island celebrate twice! So we have two national days, one principality day, a province day for the Unionists, and a close-but-no-cigar day for the Republicans. And that's without St Patrick, either.

It's one year long party for us Brits.

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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815

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What would you say that the day was for England? St George?

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Dark Knight

Super Zero
# 9415

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight:
To just ignore the day would simply be to pretend nothing happened. Something did happen - the start of an invasion and genocide.
If you want to have a discussion about whether or not "celebrating" is the right thing to do, then that is probably worthwhile

I'm not reading any suggestion that the day be ignored. The issue ISTM from across the other side of the world is that 26th January is a day chosen to celebrate the founding of Australia, but it is also a day to commemorate the fact that with that came an invasion of British people and the genocide of the indigenous people. Keeping Australia Day associated with the 26th January (which includes any change to the nearest Monday for convenience) will mean that the holiday will need to combine both aspects. Which is always going to be a tension - but perhaps it is good to have them in tension to make sure people don't forget that the establishment of Australia as a nation came at great cost to the indigenous people.
The suggestion is that people like myself and the Fremantle council who are participating in the One day in Freo event on 28 Jan are ignoring the fact that moving the day to a location two days later does not actually sever the link to the day itself, and what it represents.
And, as I have stated at length now, that is not the intention of any of this. [brick wall]

quote:
An alternative is to divide the events, keeping the 26th January as a commemoration of the invasion and genocide of the indigenous people and selecting another appropriate date in Australian history for the celebration of Australia. Or, another alternative is to ditch the idea of a national day altogether.
I suppose - but given how much angst has been poured out over the decision to move the celebration of the date itself, I can only imagine how the suggestion to ditch the celebration entirely would go.
To give you an idea of how some people in Fremantle think - the explorers' monument stands in Esplanade park. On one side it has a plaque commemorating the death of some explorers killed by "treacherous natives." As this was offensive to Indigenous people, the plaque was not removed. Rather, they put another plaque on the other side of the monument with the other side of the story.
This is exactly the point. I am not for severing the link with 26 January. We need to remember what was done here. We need to acknowledge what we have done, not pretend it didn't happen. We need, I suppose, to have a national day (Federation would be a better, if equally problematic, day to celebrate in my view). But, given the day is one of profound pain for many, we are choosing simply not to celebrate on that day. A symbol, perhaps lacking in much efficacy? Perhaps that will be the view of many. As I said earlier, if we ditch symbols because they are symbols, we will have to get rid of quite a lot of them.
[url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explorers'_Monument] Explorers' monument[/url]

[No idea why it won't let me insert the URL as normal. Sorry.]

[ 25. January 2017, 01:38: Message edited by: Dark Knight ]

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Wronger than a drooling idiot on stupid juice - but I understand his argument.
mousethief (paraphrase)
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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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Most likely the apostrophe in the URL is causing a ruckus.

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Dark Knight

Super Zero
# 9415

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quote:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
If you want to have a discussion about whether or not "celebrating" is the right thing to do, then that is probably worthwhile (keeping in mind that we have "celebrants" at funerals, I suppose). A lot more worthwhile than anything you've said on this thread so far.

That's exactly the discussion we HAVE been having. You just haven't worked it out. You've been talking about "moving the celebrations" from your very first post and you haven't until now shown a flicker of recognition that my entire reaction has been about the fact that YOU ARE STILL CELEBRATING.

No, you troglodyte. This is the discussion YOU STARTED:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
If the day is going to shift, it's going to have to shift to a day that means something. Not to a day that has no significance in the nation's history. Can you imagine? We have fireworks on this day to commemorate nothing happening. Or just because it's time for a booze up.

Don't try and wriggle out of this, as if you were talking about something else the whole time. The shifting of the day is what YOU have been banging on about this whole time.

quote:
quote:
This is about remembering what happened, acknowledging it is a painful day, and including Indigenous people by not celebrating that day.
And the penny that was dropping has disappeared again. Then stop celebrating it! Stop thinking that having a party 2 days after is not having an Invasion Day Party! How the hell does that "acknowledge it is a painful day"?
I'm going to do this one word at a time. Maybe that will help.
By. Not. Celebrating. On. That. Day.

Hey, you want to advocate not celebrating at all, be my guest. Like I need to see people wandering around draped in flags because they anticipate getting so stoned or smashed they actually forget what country they are in. But, given the firestorm that has descended on the Fremantle council for making the actually quite mild suggestion that we don't celebrate the actual day, but have some stuff going on another day just over here (which won't just be mindless hedonism like fireworks, but will involve culture, music etc. in true Freo style), good luck convincing people not to have a celebration at all. This is a cautious first step away from simple mindless celebration. Is it enough? Hell no!
If I am not back here to participate further in this mind-numbingly stupid conversation, happy birthday for tomorrow, dickhead. I may disagree with everything you are saying here, and think you are a tool, but I am still not disappointed you were born. [Two face]

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Wronger than a drooling idiot on stupid juice - but I understand his argument.
mousethief (paraphrase)
----
Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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My birthday is not tomorrow.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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It must be soon, so Happy Birthday in advance.


Ian Macfarlane says March 1:
quote:
Mr Macfarlane ... said Australia Day could be moved to March 1, as it was the day the Commonwealth started functioning as one nation under one Government.
And Barnaby tells critics of Jan 26 to "go to work" and says, "They don't like Christmas, they don't like Australia Day, they're just miserable, gutted people and I wish they would crawl under a rock and hide for a little bit."

[ 26. January 2017, 00:06: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]

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Kittyville
Shipmate
# 16106

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quote:
"I wish they would crawl under a rock and hide for a little bit."
And also with you, Barnaby.
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orfeo

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# 13878

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I did always rather like Ian Macfarlane. Fairly conservative politically but regularly showed signs of having a brain and being willing to listen to arguments.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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goat
Apprentice
# 18740

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If 26 January was invasion day so was Anzac. The Turks won there 1-0 in injury time and are Muslim.
Anzac becomes Victory Day if Muslims lead the parade with B-Grade ISIS bringing up the loser's tail-end.

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