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Source: (consider it) Thread: Trumpton
Penny S
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Unfunding Berkeley. Though not exactly sneakily. Can someone keep the Black Bloc out of things?

[ 02. February 2017, 18:33: Message edited by: Penny S ]

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Patdys
Iron Wannabe
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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I don't want to sound at all like I'm supporting Trumps ridiculous anti-refugee policy, but can someone explain why Australia isn't the bad guy in the current spat?

Australia set up offshore immigration centres and Australia appears to be trying to farm out those poor people to other countries. Why should the USA bail them out? Hasn't Australia got enough space for refugees?

There is enough shame to go round.
(I adjusted your 'is' to 'isn't' because I think that is what you meant.)

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Marathon run. Next Dream. Australian this time.

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orfeo

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I don't want to sound at all like I'm supporting Trumps ridiculous anti-refugee policy, but can someone explain why Australia is the bad guy in the current spat?

Australia set up offshore immigration centres and Australia appears to be trying to farm out those poor people to other countries. Why should the USA bail them out? Hasn't Australia got enough space for refugees?

We only ban people based on method of transport. Not on country of origin. So... we're slightly less awful, or something.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Alan Cresswell

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The Australian government simply bans anyone who needs to cross water to get to Australia. Which is ... well, everyone.

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Citizen of the world.

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orfeo

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No no. Come by plane and it's all fine.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Doc Tor
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Can you hijack a plane? Or do the potential refugees have to make one out of balsa wood and string?

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Lost in Space

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Soror Magna
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I have to acknowledge that Drumpf put a smile on my face that will take me to the end of Black History Month. Since he's an entertainer, he does know when it's time for some comic relief:

quote:
Frederick Douglass is an example of somebody who’s done an amazing job and is being recognized more and more, I noticed.
The amazing Frederick Douglass

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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"

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orfeo

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Can you hijack a plane? Or do the potential refugees have to make one out of balsa wood and string?

I think the expectation is that you just buy a ticket, but you raise some interesting possibilities.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Barnabas62
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Nice quote by Douglass from the article

quote:
"I hope and trust all will come out right in the end, but the immediate future looks dark and troubled. I cannot shut my eyes to the ugly facts before me."
One of these ugly fact is the extraordinary ugliness of Trump's behaviour. The latest illustration was at the National Prayer Breakfast. Unbelievably crass, completely inappropriate, egotistical, embarrassing. He simply cannot be hearing what he is saying.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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He is going to bomb Iran. Not an if, but a when. Pretext is their missle test. Reason will be something slightly stupider than his daily stupidity and the rumblings of a palace coup. And the rally to the flag will play in his favour.

[ 03. February 2017, 02:22: Message edited by: no prophet's flag is set so... ]

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Maybe I should stop to consider that I'm not worthy of an epiphany and just take what life has to offer
(formerly was just "no prophet") \_(ツ)_/

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Golden Key
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Further on military topics:

"Military Convoy Flying Trump Flag Belonged to SEAL Unit." (ABC News)

It seems a military convoy in Kentucky decided it would be a good idea to fly a Trump flag from the lead vehicle. Don't know if that flag was already a thing, or if they made it themselves.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Golden Key
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Barnabas--

quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
One of these ugly fact is the extraordinary ugliness of Trump's behaviour. The latest illustration was at the National Prayer Breakfast. Unbelievably crass, completely inappropriate, egotistical, embarrassing. He simply cannot be hearing what he is saying.

ISTM that implies that he would hear something wrong, if he could hear it.

I think he's saying what he thinks is true, at the time, what makes sense. IMHO, he'd have to be in hailing distance of mental health to have any idea of the wrongness. When he's at all aware of a difference between his perceptions and those of other people, the problem is with them.

For whatever reasons (background, brain damage, mental illness...), he's not playing with a full deck. And IMHO expecting him to doesn't help.

FWIW.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Further on military topics:

"Military Convoy Flying Trump Flag Belonged to SEAL Unit." (ABC News)

It seems a military convoy in Kentucky decided it would be a good idea to fly a Trump flag from the lead vehicle. Don't know if that flag was already a thing, or if they made it themselves.

The sad thing is he doesn't appear to care about them beyond how he thinks it will garner him attention, thinks he knows more than they do regarding combat, strategy, etc and is highly likely to get more of them killed for no good reason.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Golden Key
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Meanwhile, back on T's phone:

"President Trump Warns Mexico He Might Send U.S. Troops to Take Care of 'Bad Hombres'." (AP, via Time)

Both sides are now denying it was any kind of threat. But the report is from the AP, so it's likely to be accurate.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Alan Cresswell

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
He is going to bomb Iran. Not an if, but a when.

Crass stupidity. The region is a real mess - Syria is simple anarchy, Iraq is struggling to recover from "regime change" with no real government, Saudi Arabia actively promotes radical Islam that feeds ISIS-like terrorists and is bombing the hell out of Yemen. Iran, on the other hand, is politically stable, religiously moderate even liberal, relatively pro-Western. Just the sort of nation we should be working with to try and bring some sort of stability to the region. Instead the nut jobs in the current US administration decide they want to start another stupid war in the region, to replace a relatively progressive, stable and friendly government with an anarchic hotch-potch of warlords and create another breeding ground for radical Islamic terrorists.

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Citizen of the world.

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rolyn
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So long as the West can ring fence the Mid East oil fields I honestly believe it barely gives a rats arse about the ordered chaos and honour among thieves merrily going on outside of these zones.

The Iraq 03 military intervention was an experiment to win the hearts and minds of the general population, it failed and won't be repeated.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Barnabas62
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Trump's words cannot be trusted to be any more than what he's thinking or feeling at the moment. There was going to be an executive order last week about voter fraud, but this week it's "not a priority" according to White House spokesperson.

The Executive Orders, tweets, explosive comments in private or in public appear to be feeding material for his supporters that "he's doing what he said he would do". And it may be that they are the way his cabinet are seeking to control him. "Let him sound off, we'll pick up the pieces. After all, he has a short attention span and likes watching TV."

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Barnabas62
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The whole situation is beginning to remind me of survival in the court of a mad king.

One of my favourite stories is about a jester who has managed to outlive many ministers in the court of a mad king, but in the end, he is forced to agree that he will teach his master's horse to talk. His wife says he's gone completely mad. "Maybe" he observes" but I did tell the king it would take six months. A lot can happen in six months. The king may die. I may die, the horse may die. Or, unlikely as it seems, maybe the horse will talk ...".

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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la vie en rouge
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Didn’t Trump promise he was going to give up his twitter account after he became President?

I know the man’s an inveterate liar, but I guess it’s evidence of how successfully he gaslights the world that I now have no idea whether he said was going to do it and didn’t, or whether I imagined it.

On Trump being a big fan of the sterling work being accomplished by Frederick Douglass: next time the 13th falls on a Friday is in October. Just saying.

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
The Iraq 03 military intervention was an experiment to win the hearts and minds of the general population, it failed and won't be repeated.

You're repeating the great deception. The hearts and minds things in absolutely NOT what that was about. That was about political advantage and profit for Bush and friends. trump is more honest about such things. They are children of a common mother.

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Maybe I should stop to consider that I'm not worthy of an epiphany and just take what life has to offer
(formerly was just "no prophet") \_(ツ)_/

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sabine
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quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:


One of these ugly fact is the extraordinary ugliness of Trump's behaviour. The latest illustration was at the National Prayer Breakfast. Unbelievably crass, completely inappropriate, egotistical, embarrassing. He simply cannot be hearing what he is saying.

How many religious leaders have taken him to task for this? I know he created an awkward reaction at the Prayer Breakfast, but why the seeming silence on the part of religious leaders?

Just now tried to google for responses. Got to page 5 and all the headlines referred to the speech itself or to Arnold Schwarzenegger's response.

And yes, I know there are conservative Christians who somehow see no problem with Trump's POV and the gospel, but I was hoping that others might say something.

Am I not looking in the right places/

sabine

[ 03. February 2017, 15:13: Message edited by: sabine ]

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"Hunger looks like the man that hunger is killing." Eduardo Galeano

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Brenda Clough
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I fear the church has completely sold out to Caesar.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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Which Constantine bought with a sword, thereby founding catholocism on a violation. It's a fine tradition.

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Maybe I should stop to consider that I'm not worthy of an epiphany and just take what life has to offer
(formerly was just "no prophet") \_(ツ)_/

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Og, King of Bashan

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quote:
Originally posted by sabine:
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:


One of these ugly fact is the extraordinary ugliness of Trump's behaviour. The latest illustration was at the National Prayer Breakfast. Unbelievably crass, completely inappropriate, egotistical, embarrassing. He simply cannot be hearing what he is saying.

How many religious leaders have taken him to task for this? I know he created an awkward reaction at the Prayer Breakfast, but why the seeming silence on the part of religious leaders?
Of all of the things that the Trump administration has done in the past two weeks that deserve a response from religious leaders, this one ranks pretty low.

I am a big advocate of the idea that there is enough righteous anger to go around in the Kingdom of God, and I get really annoyed by all of the folks in the media and on my facebook feed (seemingly mostly white men) telling people not to be "distracted" by their honest concerns over the latest outrage because it is keeping you from seeing what is really going on. So forgive me if I am being hypocritical here. But I find the remarks at the prayer breakfast more deserving of ridicule than outrage.

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

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sabine
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quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
I find the remarks at the prayer breakfast more deserving of ridicule than outrage.

Indeed, he's a sad, pathetic person for whom all situations seem to be a context to brag about himself and vow to take down [insert whatever pops into his head].

At the same time, I'd like to see some religious leaders (Pope Francis excepted, he's already spoken on immigration) step up and offer a counter message . . .

. . .like, for instance, the gospel--not the America First gospel or the "we can hate as religious liberty" gospel or the "only white men with money can make the rules" gospel, but you know. . .

. . .the gospel where love is the foundation of the two great commandments and the Good Samaritan didn't pass by the stranger at the side of the road, and the Sermon on the Mount actually matters.

Call me naive (someone on this thread probably will, it's hell [Smile] ) but I'm still waiting for religious leaders to grab the mic, speak prophetically, and then drop it.

Or maybe it's happening and I'm just waiting for something like that to get as much coverage as Trump's craziness.

sabine

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"Hunger looks like the man that hunger is killing." Eduardo Galeano

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Doc Tor
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As far as I can tell, Franklin Graham, probably the best known and most widely respected ConEvo US preacher loves the Trump.

Who else is left? And surely, if any speak out against Trump's policies, they're not part of the fold anyway.

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Lost in Space

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sabine
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Rev. William Barber of the Moral Mondays movement has spoken out (he was in my city just recently) but doesn't get much press.

sabine

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"Hunger looks like the man that hunger is killing." Eduardo Galeano

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Brenda Clough
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The head of the Baptist church (I forget his name) has spoken out. Disappointingly, my own rector confined his sermon last Sunday solely to the scripture lesson.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer

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Schroedinger's cat

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
As far as I can tell, Franklin Graham, probably the best known and most widely respected ConEvo US preacher loves the Trump.

Who else is left? And surely, if any speak out against Trump's policies, they're not part of the fold anyway.

I think that is the problem. So many of the religious leaders have already sold out to Trumpism. That is to the shame of the US Church.

It is to the shame of the UK church that our leaders have not spoken out at either the US or the UK shenanigans.

In fact, the church has, in these last year or so, been disgracefully silent.

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Blog
My books for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
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Franklin Graham is respected? Never before his trumpig support and absolutely not after.I can guarantee that his bible has no religious content in it, no, none at all.
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Golden Key
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np--

He is respected, by many people. Largely, I think, because he's taken over for his very-respected dad, Rev. Billy Graham. Also because some people agree with him.

I have a lot of respect for BG, not so much for FG.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Doc Tor
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I would have listed Bell, Claibourne, Wallis, Held Evans, Bolz-Weber, Campolo and Jimmy Carter as influential US voices in the public sphere. But they're all - most of the time - people I already agree with, and not really conservatives.

Have any ConEvo leaders stepped up to the plate, or have they all drank the KoolAid?

eta: Rick Warren? Has he said anything?

[ 03. February 2017, 20:40: Message edited by: Doc Tor ]

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Lost in Space

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Stercus Tauri
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# 16668

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
I would have listed Bell, Claibourne, Wallis, Held Evans, Bolz-Weber, Campolo and Jimmy Carter as influential US voices in the public sphere. But they're all - most of the time - people I already agree with, and not really conservatives.

Have any ConEvo leaders stepped up to the plate, or have they all drank the KoolAid?

eta: Rick Warren? Has he said anything?

Jimmy Carter above all others. Remember when Bill Clinton was campaigning and visited Jimmy Carter on a Habitat for Humanity building site with a hammer in his hands, building a house? My kind of Christian.

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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)

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sabine
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
I would have listed Bell, Claibourne, Wallis, Held Evans, Bolz-Weber, Campolo and Jimmy Carter as influential US voices in the public sphere. But they're all - most of the time - people I already agree with, and not really conservatives.

Have any ConEvo leaders stepped up to the plate, or have they all drank the KoolAid?

eta: Rick Warren? Has he said anything?

I suspect people are speaking out, but unless those people do something of a razzle dazzle, they just don't get coverage.

sabine

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"Hunger looks like the man that hunger is killing." Eduardo Galeano

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by sabine:
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:


One of these ugly fact is the extraordinary ugliness of Trump's behaviour. The latest illustration was at the National Prayer Breakfast. Unbelievably crass, completely inappropriate, egotistical, embarrassing. He simply cannot be hearing what he is saying.

How many religious leaders have taken him to task for this? I know he created an awkward reaction at the Prayer Breakfast, but why the seeming silence on the part of religious leaders?
Of all of the things that the Trump administration has done in the past two weeks that deserve a response from religious leaders, this one ranks pretty low.

... But I find the remarks at the prayer breakfast more deserving of ridicule than outrage.

My thoughts exactly.

I have actually been encouraged by the number of evangelical leaders who have spoken out against Trump, both right before the election and even more so after the Muslim ban last weekend. Not Jerry Fallwell Jr or Franklin Graham, of course, but that would be more along the lines of the talking horse (or Balaam's a**) mentioned above.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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Has anyone mentioned the Bowling Green Massacre? There's definitely a Gish Gallop of immense proportions going on. The Republican faithful will dutifully believe whatever they are spoon fed, because only the liberal media are calling the Trumpistas on their heinous fabrications. Inventing a non-existent massacre to justify discrimination against Muslims is jaw-droppingly evil, and I wonder if it isn't time for the oh-so-open-minded to begin to see the parallels with Nazi Germany.

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
The head of the Baptist church (I forget his name) has spoken out. Disappointingly, my own rector confined his sermon last Sunday solely to the scripture lesson.

Russell Moore-- not just the head of a Baptist conference, but the freakin' Southern Baptists. Moore actually has been pretty outspoken in a lot of cool ways in the last year or so.


quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Franklin Graham is respected? Never before his trumpig support and absolutely not after.I can guarantee that his bible has no religious content in it, no, none at all.

Yeah, as much as Billy continues to be rightly admired in evangelical circles, Franklin is close to irrelevant-- which of course only makes him shout all the louder I gotta wonder about all the int'l workers on his payroll though, trying to do work (whether evangelistic or humanitarian) in the Middle East, when the Boss keeps spouting out his latest xenophobic anti-Muslim rhetoric/ conspiracy theory. That's gotta make your job super-fun.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

Posts: 10584 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Has anyone mentioned the Bowling Green Massacre? There's definitely a Gish Gallop of immense proportions going on. The Republican faithful will dutifully believe whatever they are spoon fed, because only the liberal media are calling the Trumpistas on their heinous fabrications. Inventing a non-existent massacre to justify discrimination against Muslims is jaw-droppingly evil, and I wonder if it isn't time for the oh-so-open-minded to begin to see the parallels with Nazi Germany.

In the best response ever, there is now a
Bowling Green Massacre Victims Fund. Donations are directed to the ACLU.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

Posts: 10584 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
simontoad
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# 18096

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Various:

--Ditto the first part of Ariston's recent post, and much of the rest of it.

--Re 1984: Hopefully, things won't turn out like Starhawk's The Fifth Sacred Thing, or The Handmaid's Tale. (Note: I've only read Starhawk's book, but heard a lot about the others.)
[Paranoid]

...


The Handmaid's Tale is an excellent book, not just an excellent feminist book. It is well worth a read, and the film is well worth a look.

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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I saw on the National (CBC nightly national TV news) seemingly normal people talking about giving trump a chance, and their agreement with his policies and ideas. I could only ask such people questions. About how they became so fearful.

Because fear has to underlie hatred. Unless it is simply evil. Which this Franklin Graham animal is with calculated statements such as "We're not attacking Islam but Islam has attacked us. The God of Islam is not the same God. He's not the son of God of the Christian or Judeo-Christian faith. It's a different God and I believe it is a very evil and wicked religion." (no link required, just search for 'very evil and wicked religion' and this hatred-filled degenerate evil man's name).

This is precisely the sort of disgusting behaviour that we have to call out for what it is, underscored for Canadians by the shootings this week in a mosque in Quebec by a homegrown racist terrorist.

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Maybe I should stop to consider that I'm not worthy of an epiphany and just take what life has to offer
(formerly was just "no prophet") \_(ツ)_/

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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cliffdweller--

ROTFL re the fund. Perfect! Thx for sharing that.

So I wonder when Kellyanne Conway will decide she's had enough, and quit? She's in wayyy over her head. I hope she's got some money and some place she can hide out, because she will be hounded.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Lyda*Rose

Ship's broken porthole
# 4544

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Naw, she'll land a job on FOX News, home of the alternative facts. No prob. [Devil]

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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Because fear has to underlie hatred.

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

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Citizen of the world.

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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Has anyone mentioned the Bowling Green Massacre? There's definitely a Gish Gallop of immense proportions going on.

This article could be instructive. I see no reason to doubt what the author says.
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Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

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I think some of the Trump team could have new jobs writing fiction. They are incredibly good at making things up and being totally convincing about them.

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Blog
My books for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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Rocinante
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# 18541

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Trump himself is quite clearly suffering from some form of mental ill-health, and therefore has some excuse for the constant stream of phantasmagorical bullshit that pours from his strangely-tinted visage.

The people around Trump, though, are just evil, pure and simple.

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Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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I understand that there are t-shirts declaring "Je suis Bowling Green."
[Big Grin]

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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L'organist
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# 17338

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Whenever I hear 'Bowling Green' I get an earworm of Sidney Poitier singing the song from The Defiant Ones.

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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Stercus Tauri
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# 16668

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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Has anyone mentioned the Bowling Green Massacre? There's definitely a Gish Gallop of immense proportions going on.

This article could be instructive. I see no reason to doubt what the author says.
After three months it's possible to laugh again.

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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)

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sabine
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# 3861

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Here is the 'historical marker" for the Bowling Green massacre

sabine

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"Hunger looks like the man that hunger is killing." Eduardo Galeano

Posts: 5743 | From: the US Heartland | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged



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