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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Trumpton
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif) The moose story is worth passing on to CNN.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
re Trump making a gnomic reference to an 'event' in Sweden, I like the comment from Carl Bildt (PM of Sweden in the early 1990s), which was Vad har han rökt? (What has he been smoking?) ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Here is a letter I sent to Senator McCain this morning:
quote:
Dear Senator McCain:
I am writing to let you know that I support you completely in your effort to expose the usurper whom the Electoral College has seen fit to install in the White House. I cannot call him the President; he is certainly not my President.
I have not always been in agreement with you on some of your positions, but you are spot on in this instance. Your office was also of great help to my father when his application for veterans' benefits became stalled.
We are fortunate to have a senior statesman such as yourself representing our interests. Please persevere! Perhaps you can persuade enough of your colleagues to make the time short until we once again have someone occupying the White House who is worthy of the honor.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Your first paragraph, unfortunately, nullified your letter.
Trump isn't a usurper and whilst he might feel that Trump is unqualified, McCain certainly will not view him as such.
The electoral college did as it has done in the recent history, at least.
Trump is your President. Liking or disliking has naught to do with that.
All you did was mark yourself as a nutter whose further words will be dismissed. Whatever aide reads those will not get past that first paragraph.
If you wish to be acknowledged, you need to dial back the rhetoric.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Thank you for your ad hominem observations. In my mind he is a usurper and he is not my President. McCain is free to think as he wishes. Now let's get on with the thread, shall we?
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
Thank you for your ad hominem observations. In my mind he is a usurper and he is not my President. McCain is free to think as he wishes. Now let's get on with the thread, shall we?
Ad hominem would mean I am attacking you, not the issue. And I am not doing that. If you are writing to make yourself feel better, knock yourself out. If you are wishing to have an effect, then you need to understand the rules of perception.
And what you wrote will most likely be perceived as I suggest.
There is one sure way to avoid comments you don't like on what you post, btw.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
Am I the only one in the room to be eerily reminded by the Florida rally of some charismatic conferences I've been in? ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.:
quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.:
quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
And that is as true for the British media as it is for the American. (Having at last found something I to some extent agree on with the bastard, I've kind of got to make a thing of it!)
No, there's really no obligation for you to follow him into the pool of idiocy in which he splashes about. This is entirely your choice.
Ok. I'll break it down into chicken-nugget sized morsels for you without conjunctions:
1. Trump notes that a lot of media produce fake news.
This is a very stupid mischaracterization of what Trump is doing. You have already failed at the first hurdle. quote:
2. I agree with this finding.
3. It is amazing that I agree with him on anything at all.
Possibly not so amazing. You are, after all, someone who somehow thinks the behavior of the Daily Mail and Daily Express is what "makes it possible for Trump and his ilk to attack the media" when neither Trump nor his audience gives the slightest fuck about the UK press.
quote:
c. I am not (I think ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif) ) following him into a pool of idiocy for agreeing with him on one single thing.
You don't even understand what you think you're agreeing with. Possibly you're still wandering around trying to find the pool of idiocy. quote:
d. Even broken clocks show the right time twice a day.
This quaint saying isn't meant to be something you should aspire to as a life goal.
Whattt??? I haven't the foggiest idea what you're on about. Either you're incapable of linear thought or you're winding me up. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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... The Respectable
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
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sabine
Shipmate
# 3861
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
re Trump making a gnomic reference to an 'event' in Sweden, I like the comment from Carl Bildt (PM of Sweden in the early 1990s), which was Vad har han rökt? (What has he been smoking?)
I'm a Swedish-American who likes to keep in touch with the homeland. I know exactly what happened, and it's terrifying.
Friday, February 17 was the Swedish nameday for all those named Alexandra. Let this be a lesson to us all. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
sabine
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"Hunger looks like the man that hunger is killing." Eduardo Galeano
Posts: 5887 | From: the US Heartland | Registered: Dec 2002
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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
Whattt??? I haven't the foggiest idea what you're on about. Either you're incapable of linear thought or you're winding me up.
I'm not sure how I can make it any simpler for you:
- Your characterization of what Trump says and does is fundamentally mistaken. Trump does not "note that a lot of media produce fake news"; he points to true reports in (e.g.) the New York Times and calls them fake news, while he himself casually spreads easily disproved falsehoods. He is essentially a bullshitter.
- That you "agree with this finding" is laughable. Bullshitters don't note things or make findings; it's not like he's contributing to critical discourse on the state of the media.
- Blaming the Daily Mail and Daily Express for Trump's behavior just compounds the stupidity of your position. It doesn't matter how inane, fatuous, and misleading they may be - none of what they say makes any difference to either Trump specifically or American politics generally. They have no salience here. Their behavior, however reprehensible, can hardly be blamed for his.
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
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molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.:
I'm not sure how I can make it any simpler for you:
Well I can give you credit for a least coming with a set of statements that can be understood this time.
quote:
[*]Your characterization of what Trump says and does is fundamentally mistaken. Trump does not "note that a lot of media produce fake news"; he points to true reports in (e.g.) the New York Times and calls them fake news, while he himself casually spreads easily disproved falsehoods. He is essentially a bullshitter.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) In fact he does, but what he more usually does is point to true news and call it fake. However, he only gets any traction because the first statement is true.
quote:
[*]That you "agree with this finding" is laughable. Bullshitters don't note things or make findings; it's not like he's contributing to critical discourse on the state of the media.
I agree with the general finding, and I actually don't think you disagree with it either.
quote:
[*]Blaming the Daily Mail and Daily Express for Trump's behavior just compounds the stupidity of your position. It doesn't matter how inane, fatuous, and misleading they may be - none of what they say makes any difference to either Trump specifically or American politics generally. They have no salience here. Their behavior, however reprehensible, can hardly be blamed for his.
And this is where you go totally off the rails. I did not blame Trump's behaviour on these newspapers. Trump is Trump and will do what he does as soon as he has an audience. But they have helped create the conditions in which people like Trump become credible spokespersons in the minds of some people.
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... The Respectable
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Has it occurred to anybody that perhaps Trump and his people are immigrants from a different timeline, and in their universe there actually were attacks? It could explain the surreal stuf they say.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.:
I'm not sure how I can make it any simpler for you:
Well I can give you credit for a least coming with a set of statements that can be understood this time.
Well, I'm glad I could finally dumb it down enough for you. quote:
quote:
[*]Your characterization of what Trump says and does is fundamentally mistaken. Trump does not "note that a lot of media produce fake news"; he points to true reports in (e.g.) the New York Times and calls them fake news, while he himself casually spreads easily disproved falsehoods. He is essentially a bullshitter.
In fact he does, but what he more usually does is point to true news and call it fake. However, he only gets any traction because the first statement is true.
quote:
[*]That you "agree with this finding" is laughable. Bullshitters don't note things or make findings; it's not like he's contributing to critical discourse on the state of the media.
I agree with the general finding, and I actually don't think you disagree with it either.
quote:
[*]Blaming the Daily Mail and Daily Express for Trump's behavior just compounds the stupidity of your position. It doesn't matter how inane, fatuous, and misleading they may be - none of what they say makes any difference to either Trump specifically or American politics generally. They have no salience here. Their behavior, however reprehensible, can hardly be blamed for his.
And this is where you go totally off the rails. I did not blame Trump's behaviour on these newspapers. Trump is Trump and will do what he does as soon as he has an audience. But they have helped create the conditions in which people like Trump become credible spokespersons in the minds of some people.
I see I spoke too soon. Still not simple enough, I suppose. The papers you pointed to can't have created conditions of any consequence in the US, because no one here pays any attention to them.
And I do not, in fact, agree that the mainstream US media (Trump's target) is "full of hype, spin and fake news." You're free to wallow in that bullshit with Trump and the trolls at Fox News, but don't include me in it.
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Has it occurred to anybody that perhaps Trump and his people are immigrants from a different timeline, and in their universe there actually were attacks? It could explain the surreal stuf they say.
Do you mean like the evil alternate universe of Star Trek? Was the trump from this replaced with the evil maniacal one? That is among the sanest things said so far to explain this whole crazy mess.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
I was thinking of the alternate realities in The Hitch-hiker's Guide To the Galaxy except it lacks the humour.
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Interesting example of fake news.
From the Master of fake news.
Looks like he confused Sweden with Sehwan in Pakistan..
Easily done
Pres. Obama described Trump as having "severe learning disabilities". If that's true, T might well have problems reading, or making sense of what he hears. And I've long wondered if he has some hearing difficulties.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Sabine--
quote:
Originally posted by sabine:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
re Trump making a gnomic reference to an 'event' in Sweden, I like the comment from Carl Bildt (PM of Sweden in the early 1990s), which was Vad har han rökt? (What has he been smoking?)
I'm a Swedish-American who likes to keep in touch with the homeland. I know exactly what happened, and it's terrifying.
Friday, February 17 was the Swedish nameday for all those named Alexandra. Let this be a lesson to us all.
...which was the name of the last czarina of Russia. The Russians, again!
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
. Obama described Trump as having "severe learning disabilities". If that's true, T might well have problems reading, or making sense of what he hears. And I've long wondered if he has some hearing difficulties.
Which would be no excuse whatever.
If you have learning or hearing difficulties or have problems reading or hearing you check check and check again before you write or make a speech.
It takes longer but that's life - some people struggle to walk, some struggle to read and write.
My Dad had severe hearing difficulties and I have learning difficulties (dyslexia, ADHD) It didn't stop us being compassionate people who didn't make stupid mistakes when public speaking.
[ 20. February 2017, 07:18: Message edited by: Boogie ]
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Has it occurred to anybody that perhaps Trump and his people are immigrants from a different timeline, and in their universe there actually were attacks? It could explain the surreal stuf they say.
A few months ago I said it felt like the other way around - that I'd slipped into an alternative universe. It's the simpler of the two (Martin will appreciate my use of Occam) as it not only explains Trump, it also addresses the insanity of Brexit, the self-destruction of Labour at a time when they had an unprecedented opportunity to put the boot into the Tories and the rest of the recent lunacy that abounds around the world.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Boogie--
Apologies if I caused any offense. I don't have a problem with a president with learning disabilities, provided they're aware of them and have ways of coping. Rewriting, as you said; an assistant; text-to-voice software, so they don't have to read; hearing aids, etc.
But his mind seems to be such a mess--e.g., mental illness*--and he's so divorced from reality, that I think he really might not understand that he has difficulties. It's everyone else who doesn't understand *him*.
And if he has both severe mental illness and severe learning disabilities (and possibly side-effects from a medication that's known for them), to the point where he can't function in a job that has serious consequences...
*Some people have complained that I refer to T as "mentally ill". It's not something I say lightly. I'm sorry to offend anyone. There are all sorts of mental illness, including some that can make a person very mean and explosive, and some related to committing sexual assault. That's not a reflection on anyone else with a mental illness--nor on me, with depression. And it's only my business because a) he's in charge of my country; b) his words and behavior affect people in other countries; and c) he's clearly not functioning well enough to do the job.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
And I've long wondered if he has some hearing difficulties.
He certainly does. He has difficulties with hearing the words 'you're wrong, Mr President'.
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Boogie--
Apologies if I caused any offense. I don't have a problem with a president with learning disabilities, provided they're aware of them and have ways of coping. Rewriting, as you said; an assistant; text-to-voice software, so they don't have to read; hearing aids, etc.
No offence at all. My point was that his difficulties (whatever they are) are no excuse for his behaviour.
I feel for you and hope it's all soon over for you (and the rest of the world).
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Jonah the Whale
Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
And if he has both severe mental illness and severe learning disabilities (and possibly side-effects from a medication that's known for them), to the point where he can't function in a job that has serious consequences...
Or maybe he's just an arsehole. Occam's razor and all that.
Posts: 2799 | From: Nether Regions | Registered: Aug 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
It is denigratory to persons with mental illness, to call the PGinC mentally ill. And the Arsehole Defamation League will be in touch with you! Anal sphincters perform a useful societal function! To use them to describe Lyin' Donald is an insult.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
Also, since the PG is an American (I'm sorry to say), he is an asshole, not an arsehole.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
My pussyhat has made it to America without being confiscated by the authorities (the customs declaration said “bonnet en laine” (woolly hat). This is fortunate because my SiL has just given herself a rather disastrous home hair cut which she can now cover up with sassy protest ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) .
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Are you certain that Pussygrabber is an American?
Has anyone seen his birth certificate? He looks rather....er...... foreign, going by his colour. Mexican, perhaps? Certainly a Bad Hombre...
![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Are you certain that Pussygrabber is an American?
Has anyone seen his birth certificate? He looks rather....er...... foreign, going by his colour. Mexican, perhaps? Certainly a Bad Hombre...
IJ
Maybe Mars?
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Stephen
Shipmate
# 40
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Posted
Now, Pidwidgeon, we all know that he's a Slitheen
We need the imminent return of the Tardis with Dr.Who, Captain Jack Harkness, Sarah Jane Smith and Harriet Jones Former Prime Minister.........
Perhaps also Mickey Smith and Martha Jones just for good measure ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
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Best Wishes
Stephen
'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10
Posts: 3954 | From: Alto C Clef Country | Registered: May 2001
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
and Harriet Jones Former Prime Minister..
We know who she is.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Trump reminds me of a kid who has just learnt some rude words, and goes around at a respectable dinner saying "You smell of poopy pants".
And the WH staff are the parents trying to explain that he is just a kid, and doesn't mean any harm.
Isn't it cute that he is learning all these new words? Like You-ray-knee-um. That's a big word for him.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
Now, Pidwidgeon, we all know that he's a Slitheen
Nope, I didn't know that. I had to Google it, since I'm not into Dr. Who.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
and Harriet Jones Former Prime Minister..
We know who she is.
Not everyone is dedicated to Dr. Who.
[ 21. February 2017, 00:31: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Stephen--
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
Now, Pidwidgeon, we all know that he's a Slitheen
We need the imminent return of the Tardis with Dr.Who, Captain Jack Harkness, Sarah Jane Smith and Harriet Jones Former Prime Minister.........
Perhaps also Mickey Smith and Martha Jones just for good measure
Most of my Whovian knowledge is up through Peter Davison. I saw some Colin Baker and Patrick what's-his-name. Then nothing available for years, then a few eps of David Tennant, then none available again.
Anyway, I'll add to your list: Tegan, Nyssa, Adric, the brigadier, both Romanas, Lela, and dear Binro (not a companion, but a wonderful character from the "Key To Time" story line").
And, of course, K-9. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
and Harriet Jones Former Prime Minister..
We know who she is.
Not everyone is dedicated to Dr. Who.
Dafyd's amusing line was a reference to the episodes where she always introduced herself thus, and people responded, "Yes, we know".
[edit: URL]
[ 21. February 2017, 06:39: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Ahhhh.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Rocinante
Shipmate
# 18541
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Posted
The latest piece of fuckwitted racist crap from this sorry excuse for a government:
British muslim teacher denied entry to US on school trip
Don't recall the UK, Iceland or Bangladesh being on the list of banned countries, which was ruled unconstitutional. The only possible reason for this outrageous treatment is that the poor guy was a young man with brown skin.
Posts: 384 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2016
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
This is what the PGinC billed as getting rid of political correctness. Which seems to mean that you can be as racist and misogynistic as your little heart desires.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Rocinante
Shipmate
# 18541
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Posted
It sounds like he just wants to forget the humiliating experience as soon as possible, but really, he should sue. If there were several other teachers in the party whose purpose for visiting the US was identical to his, but they were white, it would be a clearcut case of racial discrimination.
Who could he sue, and in what court?
Posts: 384 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2016
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rocinante:
Who could he sue, and in what court?
It would be rather difficult. US law has, AIUI, repeatedly granted immigration officials very broad latitude. For example, you don't need probable cause to conduct a search at a border crossing.
The US will also point out that there is no right for non-citizens to enter the US. Even possession of a valid visa does not grant such a right.
Newspapers basically always make errors in the reporting of visa-related issues, because there's a raft of specialist language involved that the average person doesn't understand.
The BBC reports that the local authority said that Mr. Miah had a valid visa. This is unlikely. As a British citizen visiting the UK with a school trip, he doesn't need a visa, but would be travelling under the visa waiver program. When you use the visa waiver program, you expressly revoke any rights you might have had to appeal against an immigration official's decision, which makes it even harder for Mr. Miah to sue anyone.
(He'll need a visa now: he's been denied entry to the US, which makes him ineligible for the visa waiver program. He would also need a visa if he has a criminal record. )
The report further says that Mr. Miah was "denied access" to the embassy. Probably this is because he didn't have an appointment.
Obviously in the current climate there's a suspicion that Mr. Miah might have been turned away because of being brown and Muslim. The reports all say "he was given no satisfactory reason", which makes me want to know exactly what he was told. But in general, US immigration isn't very forthcoming about why they're denying access to someone, and it's very hard to get any information out of them.
Supposedly there's some kind of redress process where if you think you've been denied admission wrongly (because they've confused you with someone else, for example) you can supply them with a boatload of information, which they might consider next time. Or not.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
He will, however, along with the rest of his party, have had a valid and individual ESTA, and as such, have been pre-vetted. Obviously, if something subsequent turns up (US bound flights hand over their passenger manifests before leaving) then all bets are off, but ESTAs are only valid for a short time.
It only takes a few incidents like this to say to brown people of whatever nationality, "Don't bother coming to the US. You might get in. You might not. Going to take that risk? Thought not."
Which is what they want, and is what they'll get, despite any protestations our lickspittle government might make.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Why the f**k anyone, whether brown, Muslim, or anything else, would actually want to go to America at the moment (except, perhaps, for pressing family reasons) beats me.
Apologies to all the millions upon millions of decent, non-racist, welcoming Americans whom I know exist....one day, perhaps soon, your country will be free again....
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Why the f**k anyone, whether brown, Muslim, or anything else, would actually want to go to America at the moment (except, perhaps, for pressing family reasons) beats me.
Apologies to all the millions upon millions of decent, non-racist, welcoming Americans whom I know exist....one day, perhaps soon, your country will be free again....
IJ
It has never been risk/annoyance-free for brown people to travel to America. Always much more chance of being harassed than pale peoples.
If they can get in, America is still safer for refugees than the places they are fleeing.
Not to mention work, family and pre-existing arrangements. It still has much good, both in scenery and people.
The UK has similar issues for brown people and Europe is seeing a rise in the far right. Where would [i]you[i/] go?
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
It only takes a few incidents like this to say to brown people of whatever nationality, "Don't bother coming to the US. You might get in. You might not. Going to take that risk? Thought not."
Well, quite.
Reading further, it seems as though his denial was not due to an interview with a US immigration worker, so must have been based purely on his passport information. Which probably means there's a Mohammed Miah on the no-fly list, and somebody thought it might be him.
The no-fly list is notorious for generating false positives, and equally notorious for making it difficult or impossible for someone to even find out whether they might be on it.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
lilBuddha - I quite agree, but it does seem as though, under Pussygrabber, America is even less welcoming than before. Alas, UKipperland is going the same way, as are others.
Perhaps I'm fortunate in being pale-skinned and non-Muslim. My ancestry is Scottish, on my mother's side (with a dash of Irish, as her forebears moved there a couple of centuries ago, and my maternal grandfather was a Dubliner). If I had to move anywhere else, it would probably be Scotland. Preferably an independent Scotland still in the EU, of course.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Why the f**k anyone, whether brown, Muslim, or anything else, would actually want to go to America at the moment (except, perhaps, for pressing family reasons) beats me.
Apologies to all the millions upon millions of decent, non-racist, welcoming Americans whom I know exist....one day, perhaps soon, your country will be free again....
IJ
And indeed why the f**k anyone would want to come to this poxy little island is beyond me. If I had a clear way out to somewhere better- Germany, Benelux or Scandinavia for choice, but pretty much anywhere in western (EU) Europe would do- I'd go like a shot. (In fact, so ghastly is this country at present that we can use this as a rule of thumb when looking at migrants and asylum seekers. They are either (i) coming from somewhere so bloody awful that even this place looks good, which suggests they are truly desperate & should be viewed with some sympathy; or (ii) the kind of people who actually like the look of this place, in itself, in which case they are precisely not the sort of people we want any more of.)
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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