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Source: (consider it) Thread: Bishops
ThunderBunk

Stone cold idiot
# 15579

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Fuck them. Fuck them all.

Might cause a revolution.

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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".

Foolish, potentially deranged witterings

Posts: 2007 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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[Confused]

Care to enlighten us a little?

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128

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Presumably this report by the House of Bishops?
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ThunderBunk

Stone cold idiot
# 15579

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Episcopal excretions

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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".

Foolish, potentially deranged witterings

Posts: 2007 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Thank you.

I just wonder what Jesus would say? He did pass on some words about marriage, within the context of his time, but I doubt if he then (as a man) had much inkling of what same-sex attraction and commitment might mean in our time.

The unconditional love and welcome he showed to everyone remains the same today, even if not reflected by his Church (or most of it, anyway).

At Our Place, our beloved Father F***wit will no doubt be crowing about upholding 'GOD'S STANDARDS' (he always seems to say it in Capital Letters), notwithstanding the fact that his daughter is gay (and getting married - abroad - to her partner sometime this year, I think). O the irony!

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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ThunderBunk

Stone cold idiot
# 15579

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Currently feeling sheepish. Hopefully a kind host will pitchfork this into the infernal regions shortly...

Fury blinded me to where I was.

--------------------
Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".

Foolish, potentially deranged witterings

Posts: 2007 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010  |  IP: Logged
Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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A Rev on the radio said "A typical CofE fudge, kicked into a different part of the long grass."

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047

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Shock! Group of Bishops selected for their homophobic qualities concludes that the church should continue to be homophobic.
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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Not all bishops are homophobic - some are *tell it not in Gath - publish it not in the streets of Ashkelon*.....GAY!

[Eek!]

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
Currently feeling sheepish. Hopefully a kind host will pitchfork this into the infernal regions shortly...

Fury blinded me to where I was.

I live to serve.

Kelly Alves
Admin

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
A Rev on the radio said "A typical CofE fudge, kicked into a different part of the long grass."

That was Richard Coles.
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Barnabas62
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# 9110

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I think the best way to handle it if you are in the C of E is to write to your local Bishop, plus make your own opinions and feelings known in your local congregation.

Plus give this a wide distribution.

There is a human cost involved in kicking stuff into the long grass.

[ 27. January 2017, 19:03: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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ThunderBunk

Stone cold idiot
# 15579

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I'm wondering what I can leave on his cathedra on Sunday.

I don't the Dean and Chapter would appreciate many of the things I have in mind.

The Lord Bishop of Norwich is the chair of the committee that emitted this nonsense.

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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".

Foolish, potentially deranged witterings

Posts: 2007 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010  |  IP: Logged
Al Eluia

Inquisitor
# 864

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quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
Episcopal excretions

As we say in America, either shit or get off the pot.

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An omer is a tenth of an ephah. (Exodus 16:36)

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Arethosemyfeet
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# 17047

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Not all bishops are homophobic - some are *tell it not in Gath - publish it not in the streets of Ashkelon*.....GAY!

[Eek!]

IJ

Not all Bishops, certainly. The authors of this report? Hell yes. They may not be in the same league as Akinola or Carey, but gay bashing with a velvet glove is still gay bashing. And since when has being gay prevented homophobia? Self-hatred is a thing, y'know.
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Adeodatus
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# 4992

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From the Bishop of Norwich's statement:
quote:
This means - as the report suggests - establishing across the Church of England a fresh tone and culture of welcome and support for lesbian and gay people, for those who experience same sex attraction, and for their families, and continuing to work toward mutual love and understanding on these issues across the Church.
I'm not surprised at what the bishops have said - if you're a scorpion, you sting. But it does turn my stomach to see that they sting us and then expect us to love them for it.

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

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ThunderBunk

Stone cold idiot
# 15579

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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
From the Bishop of Norwich's statement:
quote:
This means - as the report suggests - establishing across the Church of England a fresh tone and culture of welcome and support for lesbian and gay people, for those who experience same sex attraction, and for their families, and continuing to work toward mutual love and understanding on these issues across the Church.
I'm not surprised at what the bishops have said - if you're a scorpion, you sting. But it does turn my stomach to see that they sting us and then expect us to love them for it.
That's what it feels like when a scorpion humps your leg - like a scaly terrier. The bishops will improve - eventually we'll barely feel it as they go in.

[ 27. January 2017, 20:03: Message edited by: ThunderBunk ]

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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".

Foolish, potentially deranged witterings

Posts: 2007 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010  |  IP: Logged
Pangolin Guerre
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# 18686

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Well, if you can't fuck a bishop, who can you fuck?
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David Goode
Shipmate
# 9224

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One must never fuck the bishop, only bash it.
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Sober Preacher's Kid

Presbymethegationalist
# 12699

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Er, but their wives....

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NDP Federal Convention, Edmonton 2016: More Trots than the Calgary Stampede!

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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047

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The Bishops are the ones who keep insisting that lifelong celibacy is a completely reasonable demand of gay clergy. Sauce for the goose...
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anne
Shipmate
# 73

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Amongst the hurt and anger that I have been reading in response to this ridiculous and hurtful report has been a particular objection to the phrase "experience same-sex attraction" to describe gay people. Personally I was struck that clearly the House of Bishops see a huge problem when CofE churches and priests use unauthorised liturgies such as blessing of same sex-marriages or civil partnerships.

My inner petty bitch has thus formulated a possible two part response to this hateful and divisive document.

Firstly I am going to introduce the phrase "people who experience opposite-sex attraction" to describe myself and other straight people. Does it have implications of being just a stage that we're going through, something that we can ignore or overcome? Well then.

In addition, I think that our Bishops should be exercising their authority every time unauthorised liturgies are used. Every time. Every Sunday when the vicar thinks they'll be a bit clever. Every
praise sandwich and 'innovation’, every use of the Missal, every Taize and Iona service, every New Wine singalong and every U2charist. We (parish clergy) should be inundated with emails, complaints should flood in to Bishops and Archdeacons every Sunday. If it's not in Common Worship or BCP it clearly should not be happening, it clearly is deeply offensive to our beloved leaders. So let's stop it. Unless it is actually more important that we explore creative ways to worship that enable more people to experience and understand God's love for them. Well then.

anne

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‘I would have given the Church my head, my hand, my heart. She would not have them. She did not know what to do with them. She told me to go back and do crochet' Florence Nightingale

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ThunderBunk

Stone cold idiot
# 15579

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anne, that is my dream and my worst nightmare.

Are the bishops so determined to deal with this one issue that they will allow all creativity in the church to be killed off by bureaucratic process? What happens to pastoral love for that matter? Is everything sacrificed to keep the fundamentalist £££ flowing in?

Such a catastrophic, bureaucratic nightmare and all created by bishops determined to face in all directions at once, meaning the church goes nowhere.

In that respect, at least ++Rowan was kind enough not to throw his bishops to the wolves, and to take on himself the impact of the church's incapacity to embrace the position he himself espoused before taking office. Hugely disappointing, and indeed offensive, to many (including me) but much more like a Christian than ++Justin's antics.

Meanwhile, we are left to deal with the hideous, idiotic episcopal effluent.

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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".

Foolish, potentially deranged witterings

Posts: 2007 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010  |  IP: Logged
anne
Shipmate
# 73

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quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
Meanwhile, we are left to deal with the hideous, idiotic episcopal effluent.

And the fact that I agree that that is an appropriate description of this report is a problem for the Bishops who wrote it. Not that they care what I think individually - they shouldn't and don't - but because I'm a pretty conservative kind of lazy priest and I don't think I'm alone in that.

I'm pretty much a BCP and Common Worship woman. My life is easier when I can respect and like my diocesan Bishop. I'm not one of nature's boat rockers, not a hero, not courageous at all. But when an official document, produced at the end of (although apparently unaffected by) a long process which involved great courage by some of those asked to contribute, contains hateful language, palpable untruths and causes great hurt and distress, even I have to take notice.

This document has made my job of proclaiming the gospel afresh to each generation more difficult. It tramples all over the lived experience of faithful Christians, it ignores even their preferred way of describing themselves, let alone their stories, their faith, their gifts, all that they offer. It pays lip service to the need for repentance (by the church, for the way LGBTQI people have been treated) but doesn't even take that seriously.

It has made me ashamed to be a member of the CofE who experiences opposite-sex attraction.

anne

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‘I would have given the Church my head, my hand, my heart. She would not have them. She did not know what to do with them. She told me to go back and do crochet' Florence Nightingale

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Bishops Finger
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anne, I myself used the phrase 'same-sex attraction' further up this thread. If it came across as offensive, it wasn't meant to, and I apologise.

Re unauthorised liturgy (though I think Taize, Iona etc. are 'approved' if not actually 'authorised'), I contacted the Archdeacon when our beloved Father Fuckwit altered our already bastardised Common Worship Eucharist to a Roman Mass. My complaint was referred to the Bishop, since when.........nothing. One or two others complained, but, again........nothing.

I don't attend the Eucharist at Our Place now.

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Adeodatus
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No offence intended, anne, but I wish we could get past the rhetoric of hurt. If I say X has hurt me, it casts me in the submissive role of the poor delicate little thing whom we have to be careful with in case we make him cry.

Fuck that.

I am an adult gay man who isn't going to stand for any shrivelled old queer-basher in a pointy hat telling me who I can fuck. I frankly despise the moral cowardice of these dull-witted prelates, and if any one of them said to me personally what they've said in their statement, it's 50/50 whether they'd be on the receiving end of a good tongue-lashing, or a sharp right hook.

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

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ThunderBunk

Stone cold idiot
# 15579

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quote:
Originally posted by anne:


This document has made my job of proclaiming the gospel afresh to each generation more difficult. It tramples all over the lived experience of faithful Christians, it ignores even their preferred way of describing themselves, let alone their stories, their faith, their gifts, all that they offer. It pays lip service to the need for repentance (by the church, for the way LGBTQI people have been treated) but doesn't even take that seriously.

It has made me ashamed to be a member of the CofE who experiences opposite-sex attraction.

anne

This has to be the worst indictment of the report. I think mine, as a gay man trying to see how to deploy his gifts before they rot on the shelf, is particular and important as far as it goes, but it's personal and it's about my relationship with the structure. Your expression goes to the heart of what the church is for, and calls out exactly what the problem is: the church is not being sufficiently Christ-like to carry out its divinely mandated purpose. That is a crisis.

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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".

Foolish, potentially deranged witterings

Posts: 2007 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010  |  IP: Logged
ThunderBunk

Stone cold idiot
# 15579

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quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
I'm wondering what I can leave on his cathedra on Sunday.

I don't the Dean and Chapter would appreciate many of the things I have in mind.

The Lord Bishop of Norwich is the chair of the committee that emitted this nonsense.

I believe the cathedral gift shop sells fudge.

--------------------
Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".

Foolish, potentially deranged witterings

Posts: 2007 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010  |  IP: Logged
ThunderBunk

Stone cold idiot
# 15579

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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
No offence intended, anne, but I wish we could get past the rhetoric of hurt. If I say X has hurt me, it casts me in the submissive role of the poor delicate little thing whom we have to be careful with in case we make him cry.

Fuck that.

I am an adult gay man who isn't going to stand for any shrivelled old queer-basher in a pointy hat telling me who I can fuck. I frankly despise the moral cowardice of these dull-witted prelates, and if any one of them said to me personally what they've said in their statement, it's 50/50 whether they'd be on the receiving end of a good tongue-lashing, or a sharp right hook.

I too would replace "hurt and distress" with "boiling rage", but "hurt and distress" is an expression with a great deal of currency at present.

It would appear that their episcopal pointinesss/pointlessnesses are expecting people to be nice and calm and unemotional after their report has been noted by Synod. My word they are in for a disappointment.

Apologies for my third posting in a row, but they were responding to different things....

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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".

Foolish, potentially deranged witterings

Posts: 2007 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010  |  IP: Logged
Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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A friend emailed me this cartoon this morning.

This could be put on the Bishop's cathedra along with whatever else you decide to leave there.

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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Leorning Cniht
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# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
anne, I myself used the phrase 'same-sex attraction' further up this thread. If it came across as offensive, it wasn't meant to, and I apologise.

TBH, I thought that phrase was there because of people who do not identify as "gay" but have sex with people of the same sex. Kind of like the reason that "MSM (Men who have sex with men) shows up as a category on forms."
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Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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I think this is all about identity politics.

TBH, if you want to identify as gay or not or as being attracted to the same - or the opposite - gender or be asexual or whatever that is fine. That is how you identify yourself, and I will respect that. That is, as I understand it, how you reflect your sexuality*.

The other related issue is who you have sex with. Something which is, in truth, none of my damn business. It is only my business if it is abusive or genetically dangerous.

Given the pronouncements from Trump this week, and the damage that May is doing to this country, I would have thought that the HoB had far better things to be concerned with than other peoples genitals, and this lack-love report.

*By which I mean that this may change over time, as people learn more about themselves, not that it is anything other than part of who they are.

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Blog
My books for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128

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quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
I believe the cathedral gift shop sells fudge.

All cathedral gift shops sell fudge, but not necessarily the episcopal kind ...
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anne
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# 73

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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Fuck that.

With a rusty crosier

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‘I would have given the Church my head, my hand, my heart. She would not have them. She did not know what to do with them. She told me to go back and do crochet' Florence Nightingale

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

Given the pronouncements from Trump this week, and the damage that May is doing to this country, I would have thought that the HoB had far better things to be concerned with than other peoples genitals, and this lack-love report.

IMO, such shite emboldens the bigoted old bastards.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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The House of Bishops only ever seems to be concerned with dangly bits, as does part of the rest of the rapidly-disappearing C of E.

Why on earth cannot they - and many of their priests - realise that the world has changed since 1st Century Palestine?

I recall our own beloved Father Fuckwit ranting on one Sunday (just after the first hymn) about how Vital It Was to Uphold God's Standards by signing the petition to Roman Catholic Bishops regarding The Sanctity Of Christian Marriage. Well, the RCs are, of course, entitled to their official view, but, being an insensitive clod, Father Fuckwit conveniently forgot that the people he was ranting to (a backstreet urban congregation) were mostly divorced, co-habiting, single by default, single by choice, widowed, or unsure of their sexuality. He thinks in Black or White, unlike the way the world actually is.

He'd make a good bishop, by this bunch's standards.

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Arethosemyfeet
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# 17047

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I wouldn't say the bishops thought in black and white, more a long yellow-brown smeer.
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leo
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misprint: the Shard (sic) Conversations

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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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Trying to be fair, there are some really good bishops who would be unhappy with the reaction this has prompted.

My problem is that, from outside the CofE, the perception is that, in a week where groups of people are being sectionalised, discriminated against and abused by Trump, supported by May, the Bishops manage to bring out this report, doing the same.

From a public perception perspective, it is a disaster. It links the CofE with the Trump policies. For me, I am so glad I am out. It might have saved me, enabling my faith to be properly expressed. The more I see, the more I think the CofE is killing itself. And yes, I do mourn it.

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Posts: 18244 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
L'organist
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# 17338

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I'm just so angry that my initial reaction to the idea of "Shared Conversations" has proved to be entirely justified (and precient).

As someone who spent valuable time at one of the Shared Conversations (SC) I'm boiling mad that this disgraceful tripe from the HoB is being put forward as being in some way as a result of them. For the record - and any shippie can message me if they want details - it shows that ONE SC at least was discounted because any honest report of the one I was at couldn't have led to this wickedness.

Now I have a dilemma: do I out a bishop who, presumably, has put his name to this crap, or do I just ring him up and ask him if he needs a drink and to talk about things?

Perhaps more pertinent, does a friend who was at another SC hand over to the press details of the networking that went on with ConEvo clergy present which seems to mirror those who were in the news about setting up a "Shadow Synod"? Thinking my friend was sympathetic to their cause they dropped their guard and invited them to one of their own sessions and he was appalled.

As for ++Justin: he's perfectly relaxed about this because, after all, the statement reiterates the woolly crap he comes out with all the time; as for where his sympathies lie, I suspect he won't be wanting details of any ConEvo wrongdoing anytime.

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BabyWombat
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This makes me weep for the faithful gay men and women in the CofE who have been told, yet again “we really care for you – but you’re not good enough, really…. And we just can’t take chances….”

I am delighted when on these boards someone speaks that an act “makes the Baby Jesus weep”. I can only think that cowardly actions such as this make the Crucified One weep all the more.

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Chamois
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# 16204

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I don't see why anyone is surprised. The contents of the report were entirely to be expected. Same old, same old. L'Organist and other shipmates reported on these boards the nonsense going on at the so-called "Shared Conversations" with their carefully picked participants.

I don't like the report. But its contents come as no surprise in a CoE where at least one large conevo organisation not totally unconnected with an archbishop has a set agenda for taking over parishes, marginalising or excluding local people and vigorously promoting its own agenda, while the dioceses are silent and acquiescent.

Of course they are killing the CoE. But under its current leadership it deserves to die.

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The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases

Posts: 976 | From: Hill of roses | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged
Jane R
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# 331

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ThunderBunk:
quote:
I too would replace "hurt and distress" with "boiling rage", but "hurt and distress" is an expression with a great deal of currency at present.
Does it have to be either/or? I am quite capable of feeling hurt AND distressed AND boiling with rage. All at the same time.
Posts: 3589 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Anselmina
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# 3032

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I don't want to speak of interpreting Anne's take on the 'experiencing same-sex attraction' piece of waffle, as a phrase. She posted so eloquently. But for me I could see an offence in the phrase as describing the love same-sex couples have for each other as 'experience' rather than LOVE!

It's love. It's not an experience; it's not a fad; or a perversion; it's not a distortion of God - it's love. And God is love. I see my friends and family who are gay, with their partners - and I see love. Not an 'experience', somehow separate from who they are, or who they should be; like some unfortunate disfigurement which stops me from openly embracing them as being totally acceptable to me.

They LOVE their partners - they don't merely 'experience feelings' for them in one segregated area of human life.

I 'experience' temptation when I see someone I want to punch in the face, but don't. I 'experience' lust when I see Colin Firth. I 'experience' annoyance when someone doesn't indicate at a roundabout. But I LOVE my friends and family. And I see them LOVE their partners; wholly, sacrificially, with their whole selves. And, yes, of course, imperfectly, rowing over the occasional differences of opinion.

And I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my gay friends and family because of who and what they are, and because of the LOVE they have for their partners, wives, husbands. And I think God does, too. Because God IS love.

They don't 'experience' same-sex attraction. They LOVE. Is that really so hard to get?

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ExclamationMark
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# 14715

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quote:
Originally posted by Chamois:
I don't see why anyone is surprised. The contents of the report were entirely to be expected. Same old, same old. L'Organist and other shipmates reported on these boards the nonsense going on at the so-called "Shared Conversations" with their carefully picked participants.

I don't like the report. But its contents come as no surprise in a CoE where at least one large conevo organisation not totally unconnected with an archbishop has a set agenda for taking over parishes, marginalising or excluding local people and vigorously promoting its own agenda, while the dioceses are silent and acquiescent.

Of course they are killing the CoE. But under its current leadership it deserves to die.

Sometimes the said organisation is "invited" in by the Bishop to do just that.

Doesn't exactly build bridges with people on the ground in your own or other denominations who may well be working their socks off to build God's Kingdom.

Posts: 3632 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009  |  IP: Logged
Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128

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Could someone tell me exactly which organisation you are talking about? I can guess, but I may be wrong! [Confused]
Posts: 8645 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged
Adeodatus
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# 4992

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quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:

They don't 'experience' same-sex attraction. They LOVE. Is that really so hard to get?

The problem is, we also fuck. Love - especially English love, it seems - can be beautifully invisible. It sits bolt upright in a pew next to the beloved, and shares not a sideways glance, let alone a hold of the hand. Love stands ten yards apart at post-service coffe and talks to strangers. Love does not touch, it shares no kiss, the eyes of lovers do not linger on each other. Not in England. So love is not the problem.

The problem is, we fuck.

[ 30. January 2017, 08:35: Message edited by: Adeodatus ]

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

Posts: 9721 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Of course you do, as is only natural in an other-than-Platonic relationship, but with love, and caring each for the other - just as much as (if not more than) 'straight' couples.

So where's the problem?

[Confused]

In the Bishops' heads....

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

Posts: 7803 | From: With The Glums At The Bus Stop | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Anselmina
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# 3032

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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:

The problem is, we fuck.

This is true!

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Posts: 9861 | From: The Wee North | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Could someone please answer Baptist Trainfan's question upthread?

I can think of HTB, or perhaps that Reform, or possibly GAFCON....

.... but there may, God help us all, be Other Suspects.

[Help]

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

Posts: 7803 | From: With The Glums At The Bus Stop | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged



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