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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: When Dick Cheney thinks you've gone too far...
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
A fact that needs to be understood about visas is that they don't guarantee entry to the USA. As a smirking border guard explained to me, they just allow you to present yourself at the border and request entry - they can still send you back if they want to. Those last words are the key - entry is at the discretion (or whim) of the individual border guard, and there's no appeal.
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
But being bombed by the US is becoming an indication that you won't even get a visa. Plus Iran.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Does it make any difference re this travel ban if they pretend they are Christian? Like trump. Like other elected people.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
A fact that needs to be understood about visas is that they don't guarantee entry to the USA. As a smirking border guard explained to me, they just allow you to present yourself at the border and request entry - they can still send you back if they want to. Those last words are the key - entry is at the discretion (or whim) of the individual border guard, and there's no appeal.
It must really give Embassy staff a great deal of job satisfaction. They get a folder stuffed with paper work from someone applying for a visa to enter the US, spend days cross checking facts and confering with other agencies to confirm that the applicant has a valid reason to enter the US, has applied for the correct visa, poses no known security risk etc ... and then some jerk at the airport who's had a bad day cos their football team lost the night before can simply say "Nope, can't come in here".
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
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Posted
Well, my guess is that a lot of them couldn't care a shit (although I am sure there are at least as many who try their best). They themselves are as whimsical as hell when it come to picking up the Approved or Denied stamp at the end of a visa interview.
In fact, I know from talking to people who process visas (not necessarily Americans) that they are often pretty cynical about a lot of people's motivations for gaining entry to a country and are inclined to distrust anyone.
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... The Respectable
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
My sister's MiL, very elderly, Canadian passport identifying her as a journalist, has been told by some jobsworth petty-Hitler of a US border guard that he could see her banned forever from entry if she didn't answer him in whatever way it was he wanted her to answer him. (She is white, but I got the impression he wanted her to answer like a slave.)
And a friend going to a scientific conference was told not to say that was the reason for the visit, because the next question is about the conference paying the fare, and the next event is being sent back because of not having a work permit.
I assume they pick this sort of person deliberately. (Ours seem to have this sort of person gravitating to the job as well.)
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
You mean they give the job to twats like our Deano?
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Stephen
Shipmate
# 40
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Posted
Karl, I was just reading your signature after your post....!
Well you might get sensible answers ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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Best Wishes
Stephen
'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10
Posts: 3954 | From: Alto C Clef Country | Registered: May 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
And a friend going to a scientific conference was told not to say that was the reason for the visit, because the next question is about the conference paying the fare, and the next event is being sent back because of not having a work permit.
That's one I've never understood. Lots of people travel for business reasons, a scientific conference is just a particular form of business meeting - and, unlike say going to negotiate a deal to sell your widget, isn't something that is expected to result in any income (at least, not directly).
I did get a load of information about needing a visa and green card if I wanted to work in the US on one occasion (I think at Newark). Though why anyone would assume that I was even contemplating working in the US because I'd turned up there to spend a two week vacation with inlaws I don't understand.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
A fact that needs to be understood about visas is that they don't guarantee entry to the USA. As a smirking border guard explained to me, they just allow you to present yourself at the border and request entry - they can still send you back if they want to. Those last words are the key - entry is at the discretion (or whim) of the individual border guard, and there's no appeal.
And apparently a green card doesn't guarantee it either. However much there might be a "permanent" printed on my husband's card it really just means "whatever the hell we feel like for whoever happens to be in power at the time".
A conservative friend was defending the ban yesterday on fb. I reminded her of debates we've had in the past about immigration, and how Republicans like her are always telling undocumented immigrants to "get in line and follow the rules". Well, her are 2000 refugees (with another 90,000 or so behind them) who did precisely that-- got in a two-year long line, followed the rules. We're the ones who aren't playing by the rules we wrote.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
At least there'll be no scientific or professional international meetings or conferences held in the US from now on. It'll give the rest of the world a bit of look in.
(WorldCon 2017 is in Finland - I'm just wondering if San Jose 2018 will fold)
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
One of the insane aspects of this order is that it seems to apply to people already living in the US. For example, there are 1 million Iranians living there - does this mean that they cannot leave the country, as they will not be allowed back?
Not just unjust, but amateurish.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
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Posted
Now that is an insult to amateurs. It's batshit crazy. I'd expect better reasoning from an Orang-Utan.
Either they got the intern to draw up the order or they are trying to stoke up trouble and chaos as a smokescreen for something else. I still can't bring myself to believe they didn't know what they were doing to the degree it appears.
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... The Respectable
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
You have to feel sorry for Iranians, many of whom fled the Iranian regime, and found refuge in the US. And now?
It also seems to a good way to increase Islamist radicalization round the world. But then Trump would just say, told you so.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
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Posted
I do indeed. I know an Iranian couple who won a Green card in the lottery and hoped to travel to the US. I am assuming that plan is scuppered, at least for now.
It is incidentally a 9-day trip to Iran that has wiped me off the US visa-waiver programme. Besides obviously turning me into a frothing-at-the-mouth Islamist radical, the visit was enough to confirm my suspicion that Iran is a very much more sophisticated and outward looking country than it reputation in the West would ever have it, and people we spoke to seemed genuinely concerned about their country's reputation. Having said that, I do not wish to deny that the country has its dark sides, particularly dogma-driven oppression and a very effective and sinister secret service. Nevertheless, I've seldom felt safer travelling outside of Europe, and as Westerners we were made to feel very welcome. In fact I were to draw up an global hospitality list, Iran would have all to play for in a bid for the top spot.
I came back all the more puzzled as to why the US throws its lot in with Saudi Arabia and its islamofascist ideology. With a bit of care Iran could be brought into the fold of respectable nations. The Iran-deal shows that constructive negotiations are at the very least possible.
[ 30. January 2017, 16:04: Message edited by: molopata ]
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... The Respectable
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Lots of people travel for business reasons, a scientific conference is just a particular form of business meeting - and, unlike say going to negotiate a deal to sell your widget, isn't something that is expected to result in any income (at least, not directly).
I learned to be very specific when talking to US immigration people. There are words you don't use - never ever say that you are travelling "for work" if you are being sent somewhere by your employer. Do not use the "w" word, because if you're travelling on the visa waiver scheme, you don't have permission to "work".
Even though what everyone does at conferences and business meetings is "work", the word means something slightly different to US immigration.
I've never had an issue saying I was coming to the US for a conference. Having a conference pay your travel expenses is fine, but an honorarium is income, and whilst is is legal to accept an honorarium on a visa waiver business trip, there are strict limits on frequency and duration.
I would very much advise two things when dealing with US border officials:
1. Don't lie.
2. Be careful with your choice of words, so they hear what they want to hear.
quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
I came back all the more puzzled as to why the US throws its lot in with Saudi Arabia and its islamofascist ideology.
It's black and sticky, and having an autocratic monarchy means you can do deals and they stay done.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
1. Don't lie.
2. Be careful with your choice of words, so they hear what they want to hear.
I think this is true of border guards the world over, but I agree you need to be extra cautious when entering the US.
Also
3. Have the requisite number of fingers. I'm still wondering where the guy in front of me in the queue with a missing finger went. When they found out he could not undergo the customary biometric fingerprint procedure, he got the red folder treatment and was not seen again.
quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
I do not wish to deny that the country has its dark sides, particularly dogma-driven oppression and a very effective and sinister secret service.
Enough about the US.
What was it like in Iran?
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
One of the insane aspects of this order is that it seems to apply to people already living in the US. For example, there are 1 million Iranians living there - does this mean that they cannot leave the country, as they will not be allowed back?
Not just unjust, but amateurish.
Yes, it means and has been applied to exactly that situation. People who, like my husband, have green cards-- permanent legal status-- have lived in the US for years or decades w/o any legal problems, paid their taxes, been productive law-abiding residents. But not citizens.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
I came back all the more puzzled as to why the US throws its lot in with Saudi Arabia and its islamofascist ideolog
Surely now that Rex Tillerson is the pick for Sec. of State, the three-letter answer to that question is quite clear.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
But, the three letter word can't be the entire answer. 158,400 barrels.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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hilaryg
Shipmate
# 11690
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
I would very much advise two things when dealing with US border officials:
1. Don't lie.
2. Be careful with your choice of words, so they hear what they want to hear.
I would supplement with - be honest, be civil, be polite but only answer the question you have been asked, no more, no less.
"Do you know what day it is?" = "Yes".
"What day is it today?" = "Monday".
I have had my own sticky moments with CBP, and have learnt that if I am travelling on business, the purpose of my business is always "meetings with colleagues". Because if you try and explain that the reason you are there is to train someone up in a new software system it lands you in all sorts of hot water.
Also, CBP officers are allowed to lie and give mis-information to travellers (eg giving you a hard time and saying "I'll let you in but next time you'll need a visa") - this has been through the courts but I'm afraid I don't have the case details to hand. There are absolutely no rights at the US border if you are not a US citizen.
Posts: 261 | From: back home in England | Registered: Jul 2006
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molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
Originally posted by molopata:
I came back all the more puzzled as to why the US throws its lot in with Saudi Arabia and its islamofascist ideology.
It's black and sticky, and having an autocratic monarchy means you can do deals and they stay done.
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
But, the three letter word can't be the entire answer. 158,400 barrels.
Absolutely. But Iran does black 'n' sticky too. And they have had a fairly predictable political system too. Besides, the US has shale now. I rather suspect that it's the fast and pointy stuff and the business deals and money flows underpinning it.
However, even if the US were to do a cynical business case for their cosy Saudi-Arabian love-in, i.e. weighing the benefit of selling arms for oil against the money they have spent mopping up the blood being spilt in the region as a result of said relationship, then I would be surprised if they got anywhere near break-even.
[ 30. January 2017, 20:03: Message edited by: molopata ]
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... The Respectable
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
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molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Originally posted by molopata:
I do not wish to deny that the country has its dark sides, particularly dogma-driven oppression and a very effective and sinister secret service. Enough about the US.
What was it like in Iran?
On the whole a very positive experience. Of course, I would be deluded to think that a short visit would be enough for me to speak on the country authoritatively, but it was enough to recognise huge discrepancies between Western ideas of Iran and the reality on the ground. Yes, there were a lot of chadors and yes, head-scarves are mandatory for women (in some cases only just). But people were very welcoming and we even had some surprisingly frank political (and even religious) conversations with people which left me with the hope that the Americans might be as moderate in their upcoming election as the Iranian might be in theirs (a hope that was obviously to be dashed). Despite the dress code, many women appeared to be in roles of authority. Men and women alike have a strong sense of style and have a lot in common with Italians. And in terms of hospitality, we were treated like royalty.
But there is also a darker side lurking below the surface. Obviously, comprehensive women's rights are a long way off. A few whispered comments such as "the neighbours are watching" or "we can't say that here" did hint at the often malevolent watching eye of the system that could ruin your life in a heartbeat. There was also the time when everyone was herded off the public bus at a police checkpoint while a mean-looking Alsatian was used to check the vehicle for stashed heroin suggested that not all is well with the Islamic Revolution.
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... The Respectable
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
Originally posted by molopata:
I came back all the more puzzled as to why the US throws its lot in with Saudi Arabia and its islamofascist ideology.
It's black and sticky, and having an autocratic monarchy means you can do deals and they stay done.
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
But, the three letter word can't be the entire answer. 158,400 barrels.
Absolutely. But Iran does black 'n' sticky too. And they have had a fairly predictable political system too. Besides, the US has shale now. I rather suspect that it's the fast and pointy stuff and the business deals and money flows underpinning it.
However, even if the US were to do a cynical business case for their cosy Saudi-Arabian love-in, i.e. weighing the benefit of selling arms for oil against the money they have spent mopping up the blood being spilt in the region as a result of said relationship, then I would be surprised if they got anywhere near break-even.
Silly goose. It's not about the American federal budget breaking even-- that's a silly, inconsequential thing that matters only to those poor schmucks who actually pay taxes. No, what matters-- what's truly vital-- is the cash that makes its way into the pockets of Trump, Tillerson, etc.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Perhaps they need reminding that there are no pockets in a shroud.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
A fact that needs to be understood about visas is that they don't guarantee entry to the USA. As a smirking border guard explained to me, they just allow you to present yourself at the border and request entry - they can still send you back if they want to. Those last words are the key - entry is at the discretion (or whim) of the individual border guard, and there's no appeal.
It must really give Embassy staff a great deal of job satisfaction. They get a folder stuffed with paper work from someone applying for a visa to enter the US, spend days cross checking facts and confering with other agencies to confirm that the applicant has a valid reason to enter the US, has applied for the correct visa, poses no known security risk etc ... and then some jerk at the airport who's had a bad day cos their football team lost the night before can simply say "Nope, can't come in here".
The embassies and consulates come under the State Department, which often hires intelligent and educated people. Border control belongs to Homeland Security, which comes under the Justice Department, and they seem to hire, with intent, persons of the thug class. A friend in Montreal who deals with refugees believes that they pay them low wages in exchange for power. Some people might call that gangsterism.
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
The embassies and consulates come under the State Department, which often hires intelligent and educated people.
Or at least they did, back when there were people still working there to do the hiring. Last week pretty much the entire senior management quit or were fired. Accounts vary, but it looks very much to me like they saw what was coming on Saturday (and perhaps still more we've yet to see) and were unwilling to be a part of it. Patrick Kennedy's resignation letter was made public and certainly sounded as if that was what was going on, although he made no mention of the (then coming) Muslim ban.
Rumors are now flying that Justice Dept. is next.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
But, the three letter word can't be the entire answer. 158,400 barrels.
No, it isn't.
It's quite much worse than that. There's decay, heavy boots and darkness involved, which the wearers and bearers call it good and just.
"Sir, surely this is an instance that we are always the most violent against those whom we have injured." (in Patrick O'Brian's The Nutmeg of Consolation, 1991)
Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen.
Bloody nose and burning eyes, put through the wringer. Will they be okay? There's fascist architecture for you.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Even Arnold Schwarzenegger thinks T messed up on the immigration executive order.
Hmmm...Arnold is the new host of "Celebrity Apprentice"; and IIRC T is still in charge of the show. Will Arnold get fired?
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
According to a Congress bill I saw yesterday, there is an idea being floated that the US pulls out of the UN and stops contributing. If that happens there may be no UN to call in soon..
I guess I've already got so jaded that believing it is possible that Trump could destroy the UN, could pull out from NATO, could completely mess up the Paris climate accord, could speed up the decline of the EU, could help Israel to completely take over the West Bank and expel millions of Palestinians, could start a war with China and could develop a special relationship with Russia no longer requires a vivid imagination.
He would only need to declare that the moratorium on the Antarctic Treaty is defunct and instead he is going to start mineral prospecting there and declare ownership if the moon to become the full-house cartoon-book villain.
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arse
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
mr. cheesy--
There are many Americans who think the UN has gotten too big for its britches, loathe it, and/or are terrified that UN black helicopters will come and take us over. (If you don't believe they believe it, search on "UN black helicopters".)
I know the gov't held back our payments to the UN for a long time, to control something the UN was/wasn't doing. I think maybe the gov't finally paid part of it, but not sure about the whole thing.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
According to a Congress bill I saw yesterday, there is an idea being floated that the US pulls out of the UN and stops contributing. If that happens there may be no UN to call in soon..
I guess I've already got so jaded that believing it is possible that Trump could destroy the UN, could pull out from NATO, could completely mess up the Paris climate accord, could speed up the decline of the EU, could help Israel to completely take over the West Bank and expel millions of Palestinians, could start a war with China and could develop a special relationship with Russia no longer requires a vivid imagination.
He would only need to declare that the moratorium on the Antarctic Treaty is defunct and instead he is going to start mineral prospecting there and declare ownership if the moon to become the full-house cartoon-book villain.
He's even got a long-legged beauty-queen with a Russian-sounding name. All he needs to do now is buy a white cat and relocate to a volcano island. Really.
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... The Respectable
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Why does the US float so much of the UN that our pulling out would destroy it? Why aren't y'all ponying up?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Why does the US float so much of the UN that our pulling out would destroy it? Why aren't y'all ponying up?
I've wondered that. Maybe because we want the UN more that other people do?
If we pull out of UN, do they have to move? So much I don't know, never had to wonder before.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Why does the US float so much of the UN that our pulling out would destroy it? Why aren't y'all ponying up?
I've wondered that. Maybe because we want the UN more that other people do?
If we pull out of UN, do they have to move? So much I don't know, never had to wonder before.
They probably should. Seven of their delgates can't come here.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Why does the US float so much of the UN that our pulling out would destroy it? Why aren't y'all ponying up?
The US provides 22% of the UN's budget, and accounts for 27% of the world's GDP.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
The problem is that if the US doesn't pay, nobody else will either.
I don't really see how China gets away with paying a quarter of the US contributions. Or why the UK is paying about the same as China.
You want us all to throw our hands in the air and walk out, or does the US have unique dibs on being self-righteous about UN contributions?
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arse
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Oh and quite a bit of that US contribution must come back to the US economy. What with the HQ being in the USA and everything.
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arse
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
In addition to financial contributions, my understanding is that personnel seconded to UN peacekeeping operations are funded by the nation donating these forces rather than paid for from the main UN budget. Currently the United States contributes a total of 72 people to these operations. Which is downright miserly compared to other nations much less able to support these operations (like, more than 8000 from Ethiopia).
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Pretty sure that's not correct Alan. Governments pay the soldiers but are reimbursed from the UN's peacekeeping budget.
quote:
How are peacekeepers compensated?
The UN has no military forces of its own, and Member States provide, on a voluntary basis, the military and police personnel required for each peacekeeping operation.
Peacekeeping soldiers are paid by their own Governments according to their own national rank and salary scale. Countries volunteering uniformed personnel to peacekeeping operations are reimbursed by the UN at a standard rate, approved by the General Assembly, of a little over US$1,332 per soldier per month.
Police and other civilian personnel are paid from the peacekeeping budgets established for each operation.
The UN also reimburses Member States for providing equipment, personnel and support services to military or police contingents.
From the UN website
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arse
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Thanks for that. Though $1332 per month is significantly below cost for developed nations, so it does mean this is an additional contribution.
I also note that that page says "Many countries have also voluntarily made additional resources available to support UN Peacekeeping efforts on a non-reimbursable basis in the form of transportation, supplies, personnel and financial contributions above and beyond their assessed share of peacekeeping costs." which may be where I got the impression that contribution of soldiers etc is in addition to cash payments (it doesn't say which countries and how much support anywhere I can see).
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
My sister's MiL, very elderly, Canadian passport identifying her as a journalist, has been told by some jobsworth petty-Hitler of a US border guard that he could see her banned forever from entry if she didn't answer him in whatever way it was he wanted her to answer him. (She is white, but I got the impression he wanted her to answer like a slave.)
And a friend going to a scientific conference was told not to say that was the reason for the visit, because the next question is about the conference paying the fare, and the next event is being sent back because of not having a work permit.
I assume they pick this sort of person deliberately. (Ours seem to have this sort of person gravitating to the job as well.)
This brings back happy memories of my first trip to the States. I flew Air India and we arrived at about the same time as a plane from Germany. The Germans were all waved through whereas the Indians had to run the gauntlet of a bunch of officials who clearly thought that life had intended them to play the part of Colombo before cruel fate had saddled them with a bad uniform and a worse attitude. When it got to my turn the bloke took my passport and made a point of peering repeatedly at it and me, hoping no doubt that his scrutiny would make me break into a sweat. I assumed the neutral expression adopted by Mr Edward Fox when he had to bypass officialdom on his quest to eliminate General de Gaulle, although unlike Mr Fox it was not to conceal my nefarious intentions but because I thought he might take it badly if I burst out laughing. This allowed me to earwig on the exchange in the next queue.
Official: Is this your first visit to the United States?
Indian guy: Yes sir.
Official: Are you going to enjoy it.
Indian: Yes sir, very much.
Official: (triumphantly) How do you know if you've never been here before?!
I didn't hear how it ended because my chap wordlessly passed me my passport and I slipped out into the throng to retrieve my sniper's rifle... er... meet up with my friend. But I do recall thinking that this kind of petty rudeness made life unpleasant for honest travellers and would do nothing to deter the real bad guys.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Thanks for that. Though $1332 per month is significantly below cost for developed nations, so it does mean this is an additional contribution.
I also note that that page says "Many countries have also voluntarily made additional resources available to support UN Peacekeeping efforts on a non-reimbursable basis in the form of transportation, supplies, personnel and financial contributions above and beyond their assessed share of peacekeeping costs." which may be where I got the impression that contribution of soldiers etc is in addition to cash payments (it doesn't say which countries and how much support anywhere I can see).
I don't know that either, but I somehow suspect that there is rather more incentive in Pakistan or Ethiopia supplying troops (which are presumably paid a fraction of $1332) than the USA or Denmark.
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arse
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
The UN is supported when it feeds back money to the funding countries. Via trade, via strategic self interest. Not supporting it, and not supporting NATO is about the the "america first" ideology. That ideology is about supporting America business and profit. If it ain't making money why invest?
Not that we should really believe that democracy, justice around the world, social development etc are other than window dressing. Self interest and profit are primary.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Pangolin Guerre
Shipmate
# 18686
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Why does the US float so much of the UN that our pulling out would destroy it? Why aren't y'all ponying up?
I've wondered that. Maybe because we want the UN more that other people do?
If we pull out of UN, do they have to move? So much I don't know, never had to wonder before.
Not certain what the real estate deal is, but I think that the UN wouldn't have to move. When the League of Nations was in Geneva, Switzerland wasn't a member.
Posts: 758 | From: 30 arpents de neige | Registered: Nov 2016
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Why does the US float so much of the UN that our pulling out would destroy it? Why aren't y'all ponying up?
I've wondered that. Maybe because we want the UN more that other people do?
If we pull out of UN, do they have to move? So much I don't know, never had to wonder before.
Not certain what the real estate deal is, but I think that the UN wouldn't have to move. When the League of Nations was in Geneva, Switzerland wasn't a member.
The problem is, how many delegates will be turned back at the airport?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
If I were them I would indeed move. The property (on the East River Drive in New York City) is hugely valuable and its sale would fund a noble HQ in some more hospitable polity.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Does the UN own the land???
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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