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Source: (consider it) Thread: Milo
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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I thought the first part of this article about Milo and his entourage, in particular, was excellent.

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The musical diary has been updated in praise of Paul Dempsey.

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
I thought the first part of this article about Milo and his entourage, in particular, was excellent.

Chilling.

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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I thought the whole article was very interesting. I'm going to keep an eye out for Laurie Penny from now on.
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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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It was a thoughtful article overall, but I still have a problem with the narrative of older people and underage relationships being part of the gay narrative. It only is because gay youth are not accepted by society, especially their parents. It is no less an abuse for all that.

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And I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad
The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had

- Roland Orzabal

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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This story talks about the dangers of lionizing bullies, essentially.

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
It was a thoughtful article overall, but I still have a problem with the narrative of older people and underage relationships being part of the gay narrative. It only is because gay youth are not accepted by society, especially their parents. It is no less an abuse for all that.

It's also part of the narrative of an awful lot of women, who aren't rejected by society or across the board rejected by their parents.
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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
It was a thoughtful article overall, but I still have a problem with the narrative of older people and underage relationships being part of the gay narrative. It only is because gay youth are not accepted by society, especially their parents. It is no less an abuse for all that.

It's also part of the narrative of an awful lot of women, who aren't rejected by society or across the board rejected by their parents.
Yes, I know. But those articles were addressing the gay community, so that is what I was responding to.

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And I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad
The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had

- Roland Orzabal

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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I'm questioning your explanation of why such relationships develop.
Posts: 24154 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
I'm questioning your explanation of why such relationships develop.

Women are not rejected in the same way, but misogyny is part of our cultures. Rejection, objectification and marginalisation are still there.
And far fewer people say that paedophilia is a feature of heterosexual culture.
I have a hard time thinking you are defending older gay people taking advantage of younger gay people, especially under-age. Or that it is somehow inherent in homosexuality.
What, then, do you think is the reason?

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And I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad
The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had

- Roland Orzabal

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
It was a thoughtful article overall, but I still have a problem with the narrative of older people and underage relationships being part of the gay narrative. It only is because gay youth are not accepted by society, especially their parents. It is no less an abuse for all that.

I'm not sure I understand what this actually has to do with the article. Gay youth barely get mentioned. In fact it's fairly explicit about not painting the young men travelling with Milo as gay.

[ 24. February 2017, 07:10: Message edited by: orfeo ]

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The musical diary has been updated in praise of Paul Dempsey.

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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Interesting articles; thanks both.

And thanks all for the responses to my original post. Helped me flesh out a bit more of what could make him tick and why he is who he is.

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
It was a thoughtful article overall, but I still have a problem with the narrative of older people and underage relationships being part of the gay narrative. It only is because gay youth are not accepted by society, especially their parents. It is no less an abuse for all that.

I'm not sure I understand what this actually has to do with the article.
I'm assuming that the comments came from this section of the article (near the end)
quote:
When he spoke about consenting relationships between adult men where there’s a large age gap, he was talking about something that is a real and meaningful part of romantic experience for a lot of gay men — and something that American conservatives seem to have no problem with when the participants are heterosexual or, indeed, presidential candidates.
Now, I can't comment on whether or not this "large age gap" is part of the experience of gay men. But, it certainly is part of the stereotype that many conservatives use to criticise gay relationships - that a large age-gap between partners is (almost by definition) an unbalanced relationship, and when the younger partner is very much younger it doesn't take much imagination to start thinking that if he was a few years younger it would be paedophilia. By painting this as the normal pattern in gay relationships (almost certainly inaccurately) it gives people a chance to point out that these relationships are wrong.

The hypocrisy is that the same conservatives using this to criticise gay relationships rarely use the same arguments against heterosexual relationships with a substantial age gap - stereotypically the rich, powerful older man with a much younger woman. And, when it is commented on it seems much more common to describe the woman as a "gold digger", putting her in the position of being in the wrong, rather than the probably more accurate description of a dirty old man wanting to demonstrate to all that he is rich and powerful, and still able to get a beautiful (read: young) woman.

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Citizen of the world.

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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Yeah, so in fact the article ISN'T painting it as specifically a "gay experience", but as one that occurs in heterosexual relationships as well and isn't commented on.

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The musical diary has been updated in praise of Paul Dempsey.

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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I don't know, this bit
quote:
he was talking about something that is a real and meaningful part of romantic experience for a lot of gay men 
still seems to be excusing it to me.
As does the
earlier linked article.
Yes, the hypocrisy is being pointed out, but the language used appears to me to treat something as nuanced and at least partially positive that is still wrong.
ISTM, straight men don't consider the Lolita thing as exactly OK as they are not happy when it is their own daughter.

[ 24. February 2017, 09:23: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

--------------------
And I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad
The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had

- Roland Orzabal

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Yes, the hypocrisy is being pointed out, but the language used appears to me to treat something as nuanced and at least partially positive that is still wrong.

Only because you chopped off the part of the sentence that explicitly referred to adult relationships.

Seriously, if you're going to skate straight past "When he spoke about consenting relationships between adult men where there’s a large age gap" then you're going to end up reading something complete different from what the author actually wrote.

[ 24. February 2017, 10:35: Message edited by: orfeo ]

--------------------
The musical diary has been updated in praise of Paul Dempsey.

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beatmenace
Shipmate
# 16955

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Heres one interesting one i found ....

"Milo may seem new and fresh, but he is the strongest tool that the Catholic church and Bible-based values has at its disposal"

Item written by a self-declared Atheist so may have a small axe to grind, but even so...

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/barrierbreaker/milo-yiannapoulos-leading-catholic-guilt-evangelist/

He did write for the Catholic Herald anf the Telgraph as well as Breitbart, you know.

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"I'm the village idiot , aspiring to great things." (The Icicle Works)

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Yes, the hypocrisy is being pointed out, but the language used appears to me to treat something as nuanced and at least partially positive that is still wrong.

Only because you chopped off the part of the sentence that explicitly referred to adult relationships.

Seriously, if you're going to skate straight past "When he spoke about consenting relationships between adult men where there’s a large age gap" then you're going to end up reading something complete different from what the author actually wrote.

I did not explicitly chop it off. I missed it. Perhaps* because adult relationships is not what the Milo quote which touched it off was refering to. Maybe I am misreading the second article, but I don't think I did so in the first.

*Also because any adult taking abusing any child, no matter sex or gender.

[ 24. February 2017, 14:05: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

--------------------
And I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad
The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had

- Roland Orzabal

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Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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quote:
Originally posted by beatmenace:
Heres one interesting one i found ....

"Milo may seem new and fresh, but he is the strongest tool that the Catholic church and Bible-based values has at its disposal"

Item written by a self-declared Atheist so may have a small axe to grind, but even so...

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/barrierbreaker/milo-yiannapoulos-leading-catholic-guilt-evangelist/

He did write for the Catholic Herald anf the Telgraph as well as Breitbart, you know.

That really is interesting. I can see a few good Purgatory threads from some of his statements:
"people are Anglicans, they’re Baptists, or Methodists, or whatever because they believe they’re good people. Well, Catholics are Catholic because they know they’re not."
As well as his belief that The Catholic church in Ireland has done more than any other institution to protect gays when they were widely persecuted.

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Stetson
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# 9597

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quote:
As well as his belief that The Catholic church in Ireland has done more than any other institution to protect gays when they were widely persecuted.
Well, it's not implausible to speculate that the priesthood provided a subculture for gay men to enter, where they were at relative liberty to have active(if highly cloistered) sex lives, free from the judgemental eyes of public opinion or the law.

Granted, I don't know how much sex was going on in seminaries, rectories, etc, but to the extent that it was, the conjugants were probably better protected than their counterparts in the secular world. I can't imagine the police in most places would be as willing to raid a priests' residence as they would a gay bar, for example.

Plus, the priesthood provided you with the perfect excuse to remain a bachelor past early adulthood.

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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!

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simontoad
Shipmate
# 18096

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quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
Any other thoughts?


Just prayers for him and for the whole world. ISTM we all damage each other in so many ways and then point at each other's brokenness and laugh and/or judge.
Reminds me of something Mr Bennett says in Pride and Prejudice.

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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