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Source: (consider it) Thread: Compassionate Conservatives
Jane R
Shipmate
# 331

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mr cheesy:
quote:
Not sure what to say about this one.
Well, I was being sarcastic (the comment about Mussolini might have given you a hint).

Weak pound and volatile stock market? Doesn't matter if you are a gambler - sorry, that should be banker - or can afford to buy gold. Or have all your money salted away in Swiss bank accounts.

Trains not running on time - NOBODY travels by train any more, darling. Well, except for that loser Corbyn. The Tory elite are whisked from one place to the next by chauffeur-driven limousine or private helicopter.

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
If you are a thieving selfish Tory bastard, it is quite obvious: you live in a leafy suburb in an expensive house, you commute to work for your six-digit salary, you've moved recently to get your kid into a "good" school, you think that the rest of the country - a vast majority - who earn less than you do somehow is benefiting from your existence AND you object to paying tax.

I'm not a thieving selfish Tory bastard then*. Hooray!

.

*= depending on your definition of "leafy suburb" and "expensive house", of course. I mean, there are trees around, and I guess anything over 100 grand could be called "expensive". And I do commute to work, but my salary only has six digits if you count the ones after the decimal place. I don't have a kid, so that one's not applicable, I don't think the country benefits from my existence any more than it does from anyone else in gainful employment, and any objections I have to tax are about how much of it we should pay rather than whether we should pay it at all**.

.

**= you know it's a good post when the footnotes are considerably longer than the main content!

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Hail Gallaxhar

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mr cheesy
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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
I'm not a thieving selfish Tory bastard then*. Hooray!

Then you are sadly deluded that the Tory party has anything positive to offer you. It is not for you, it is just pretending by offering you things it has no intention of delivering to you.

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arse

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rolyn
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# 16840

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:

And when it came to the pointless Eton wargames over the fields of Flanders, there was a ready army of working people to tap for cannon-fodder.

Sanctioned by the highly principled Liberal leader Lloyd George who diligently managed to save the hides of his own sons.

What made Britain great was planks of English oak and committed sea-fairers who turned up on foreign shores with their own set of rules. Compassion was somewhere near the bottom of the list.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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deano
princess
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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
If you are a thieving selfish Tory bastard, it is quite obvious: you live in a leafy suburb in an expensive house, you commute to work for your six-digit salary, you've moved recently to get your kid into a "good" school, you think that the rest of the country - a vast majority - who earn less than you do somehow is benefiting from your existence AND you object to paying tax.

I'm not a thieving selfish Tory bastard then*. Hooray!
I own an ex-council house. Bought for a pittance but is now worth a lot, due in part to Blair's Labour Party housing inflation boom (cheers easy!).

So which valuation do I use? The one I paid or the one that reflects the value today? These things are important to get right because one ought to maximise the amount of Tory nastiness don't you think? These are what our grandparents fought and died for.

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
[QUOTE]Fuck off you illiterate dickwad. Fascism is a right-wing not a left-wing belief, you utter pilchard.

You really do need to get up to speed with this sort of thing you know. It makes you look a bit of a simpleton amongst your peers around here...

Left-wing fascism


Again I'm sure someone will help you with the big words.

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

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deano
princess
# 12063

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Hey, cheesy-drip, can I ask - just for my own pleasure you understand - were you terribly upset when the Conservatives won the election?

I mean did you have a quiet little weep to yourself, or was there a full-on anquished scream dragged from the very depths of your tortured soul?

Obviously I hope it was the latter but can you clear it up because there's money riding on it.

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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'Great' is an interesting word for empire and exploitation - of our own poor and those in other lands.

I'm glad the days of empire are over - but plenty of exploitation continues.

Imagine Africa and the USA if Europe had left them entirely alone!

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Garden. Room. Walk

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mr cheesy
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# 3330

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Yeah, all those fascists who are looking to spread human rights, to help the weakest, the immigrants, the minorities and the workers.

That totally happens.

Prick.

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arse

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mr cheesy
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# 3330

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Hey, cheesy-drip, can I ask

No you can't. Teabreak is over, call for the nurse.

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arse

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
I own an ex-council house. Bought for a pittance but is now worth a lot, due in part to Blair's Labour Party housing inflation boom (cheers easy!).

So which valuation do I use? The one I paid or the one that reflects the value today? These things are important to get right because one ought to maximise the amount of Tory nastiness don't you think? These are what our grandparents fought and died for.

You're in love with the free-market? What value is there other than that at which the house can be sold?

btw, if our grandparents (parents in my case) fought and died for those values, why did they vote in their droves for Attlee's Labour Party instead of the war-winning Churchill's Conservative Party in 1945?

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740

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Arguing with Conservatives is something I can do, but a Conservative troll? What's the point? You just get a series of wind-ups.

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the main fear that flat-earthers face is sphere itself.

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Yeah, all those fascists who are looking to spread human rights, to help the weakest, the immigrants, the minorities and the workers.

That totally happens.

"Fascist" is a word with a very specific definition, and just because many left-wingers often use it in too broad a manner doesn't mean it's right for right-wingers to do so as well.

"Totalitarian", on the other hand, is perfectly apt.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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There's not a lot of point. I try and offer an olive branch by saying that most Tories are not selfish bastards willing to push their granny under a bus to make a few more quid. Only to get a reply that I'm wrong, that all Tories are like that. With the added stupid comment harking back to the good old days when Brittania ruled the waves - presumably also when the Navy defended the rights of British traders to make vast profits by selling opium (as opposed to the much better modern practice of the Navy doing what they can to stop drug dealers).

I can discuss politics with someone like Marvin 'til the cows come home. We will probably never agree, but it will be an informative and intelligent conversation. But, deano ... well, I might as well try and have a conversation with bacterial slime (actually, I'll probably have a better conversation with bacterial slime, which is further up the evolutionary tree than deano).

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

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mr cheesy
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# 3330

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I am absolutely aware of what fascism means, and I also know that those who stand against Tories and call for the things I've described are not fascists.

They might indeed be many other things. But by definition, they're not fascists.

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arse

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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I think, in un-Hellish fairness, that it would be a little disingenuous to hold up Deano as an example of a typical Tory. I mean, he's a fucking gift; he's making Cheesy's point for him. The tl;dr version of this thread is:

Cheesy: Tories are selfish bastards
Deano: Yes. I am, and proud of it. So much so that I hate and despise anyone with more generosity of spirit than me, i.e. the rest of humanity. But they're all bastards as well, yes they are!

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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deano
princess
# 12063

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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Arguing with Conservatives is something I can do, but a Conservative troll? What's the point? You just get a series of wind-ups.

It's not trolling if it's true.

Also it isn't trolling if that's how the other shippies paint you regardless of your actual opinions of course.

I mean someone who supported Ken Clarke in his bid to become leader of the Conservative Party is quite clearly a beastial nazi. Cheesy-drip has said so.

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Arguing with Conservatives is something I can do, but a Conservative troll? What's the point? You just get a series of wind-ups.

It's not trolling if it's true.
True? True that the left are more community minded, generous, socially aware and better at managing the nation's economy? Yes. Yes it is.

If you'll note that the thread is ironically titled 'Compassionate Conservatives': you have simply proved that they're rarer than hens' teeth and the phrase deserves the scorn heaped upon it.

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Forward the New Republic

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Erroneous Monk
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# 10858

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I tend to believe that it is possible for conservative economics to support Christian social policy. I also agree with Martin Luther's idea that the aspects of human nature that can lead us to do harm are part of our created identity and therefore also have the capacity to lead us to do good ie that God made me avaricious to impel me to earning and ambitious to impel me to office (and lustful to impel me to marriage, though that's not, I think, relevant to this thread).

I think earning and leadership can be understood as part of the way God has ordered the world - and Jesus's teaching seems to reflect this, while also pointing out that the Kingdom of Heaven won't be like that.

I would, however, appreciate some challenge on the idea that (enlightened, responsible) capitalism is the best way to fund Christian social policy. I could be completely wrong.

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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.

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rolyn
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# 16840

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
'Great' is an interesting word for empire and exploitation - of our own poor and those in other lands.

I'm glad the days of empire are over - but plenty of exploitation continues.

Imagine Africa and the USA if Europe had left them entirely alone!

'Great' in the case of this Country has been a bit of a self-aggrandisement. Great at spin doctoring and convincing the majority outside the ruling circle that they should be content with their lot.
Held us in good stead until two world wars made us too weary to keep up the act.

I often wonder what N and S America, and Africa would look like today without any European contamination. Tribal and backward is my guess, but that could be the inner, (we-know-best), Imperialist tyrant's projection .

Always seems a bit rich that we exported our brand of progress and now moan at certain countries chopping all their trees down.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
I can discuss politics with someone like Marvin 'til the cows come home. We will probably never agree, but it will be an informative and intelligent conversation.

High praise indeed. Thank you!

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
If you'll note that the thread is ironically titled 'Compassionate Conservatives': you have simply proved that they're rarer than hens' teeth and the phrase deserves the scorn heaped upon it.

All he's proved is that he isn't one.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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mr cheesy
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# 3330

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
All he's proved is that he isn't one.

Go on then, show your working how you can prove that the troll above is the exception rather than the rule. I don't think you can.

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arse

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
If you'll note that the thread is ironically titled 'Compassionate Conservatives': you have simply proved that they're rarer than hens' teeth and the phrase deserves the scorn heaped upon it.

All he's proved is that he isn't one.
None of our previous discussions have ever indicated to me that you are compassionate or generous to your wider community or further afield. You're certainly more courteous than deano, but that's not the yardstick we're using.

I'd make an exception for old school 'one nation' Tories, who I believe are more misguided than malevolent, but they appear to be in startlingly short supply. These days the Conservative Party seems to be a coalition between the Authoritarian Right and the Libertarian Right, neither of which could ever be accused of compassion or generosity to anyone else but themselves. And even then most of them would sell their own grandmothers for a few quid.

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Forward the New Republic

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Go on then, show your working how you can prove that the troll above is the exception rather than the rule. I don't think you can.

I don't see why I should have to. Over 11 million people voted Tory at the last general election, and to extrapolate from one person to all of them is ridiculous no matter which way you do it.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
I don't see why I should have to. Over 11 million people voted Tory at the last general election, and to extrapolate from one person to all of them is ridiculous no matter which way you do it.

It's only ridiculous when it doesn't resemble the thing you say that you believe in. And doesn't resemble your words in this thread and elsewhere. You've had the opportunity to prove that you're not actually a selfish Tory bastard, you've had the opportunity to show that Conservatism is more than me-me-me privilege and you've failed to take it. More than that, you've reinforced the image of a privileged Tory voting bastard who is only really interested in himself.

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arse

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
None of our previous discussions have ever indicated to me that you are compassionate or generous to your wider community or further afield.

Why would they? Politics at a national or international level (i.e. what we discuss here) is a completely different beast to personal actions at more local levels.

I'm not going to sit here and claim that I'm some kind of paragon of virtue and compassion in my local community, because I'm not. But neither am I any worse than most people you'll meet.

If I get to the Pearly Gates and St Peter asks me for a character reference, I'll be pointing him towards the homeless on the streets of Birmingham rather than some people with whom I debate political theory on the internet. Nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus say "I was hungry and thirsty, and you posted about how the government should be doing more to help me on an internet bulletin board. Come, take your inheritance."

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Hail Gallaxhar

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

If I get to the Pearly Gates and St Peter asks me for a character reference, I'll be pointing him towards the homeless on the streets of Birmingham rather than some people with whom I debate political theory on the internet. Nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus say "I was hungry and thirsty, and you posted about how the government should be doing more to help me on an internet bulletin board. Come, take your inheritance."

And there we have it again - not only is Tory politics about me-me-me, I don't even care that it isn't doing anything for anyone else (never mind the "least of these"), because my political theory doesn't extend beyond what the government should be doing to feather my nest.

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arse

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Erroneous Monk
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# 10858

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus say "I was hungry and thirsty, and you posted about how the government should be doing more to help me on an internet bulletin board. Come, take your inheritance."

[Overused]

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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

If I get to the Pearly Gates and St Peter asks me for a character reference, I'll be pointing him towards the homeless on the streets of Birmingham rather than some people with whom I debate political theory on the internet. Nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus say "I was hungry and thirsty, and you posted about how the government should be doing more to help me on an internet bulletin board. Come, take your inheritance."

And there we have it again - not only is Tory politics about me-me-me, I don't even care that it isn't doing anything for anyone else (never mind the "least of these"), because my political theory doesn't extend beyond what the government should be doing to feather my nest.
Perhaps you should consider why I just said I'd ask the homeless on the streets of Birmingham for a character reference.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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mr cheesy
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# 3330

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Perhaps you should consider why I just said I'd ask the homeless on the streets of Birmingham for a character reference.

Doesn't it cross your mind that the political philosophy you support put those unfortunates in that situation?

If people keep getting hurt in a dark alley, it is obviously well-and-good to support an ambulance system, but better to ensure the streetlights are working.

[ 03. March 2017, 13:47: Message edited by: mr cheesy ]

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arse

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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It's not unreasonable, though, to suggest the question could be asked "This is all good, but why did you consistently vote for and argue for the policies that put them there in the first place?"

I think this is the problem.

[X-posted with Cheesy]

[ 03. March 2017, 13:46: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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Somewhat akin to "When I help the homeless of Birmingham they call me a saint, when I ask why they're homeless they call me a Communist".

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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Of course, caring for the homeless of Birmingham shows compassion (and, not in the sarcastic sense of my title) and therefore separates Marvin from the heartless bastards who would just pretend they aren't there and not care if they freeze.

I'm assuming we could have a good conversation about how best to help the homeless of Birmingham (and elsewhere), and we will have different views of what the government (national and local) should be doing - and, if the government should be doing something where the funds for that come from.

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
If people keep getting hurt in a dark alley, it is obviously well-and-good to support an ambulance system, but better to ensure the streetlights are working.

That assumes that the "dark" part is why people are getting hurt. But if it's not then providing more light isn't going to change anything.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
None of our previous discussions have ever indicated to me that you are compassionate or generous to your wider community or further afield.

Why would they? Politics at a national or international level (i.e. what we discuss here) is a completely different beast to personal actions at more local levels.
You'd like to think it is, but it's not.

From Desmond Tutu:
quote:
“There comes a point where we need to stop just pulling people out of the river. We need to go upstream and find out why they’re falling in.”
In your case, it's because you're (by the way you vote) pushing them in. Labour inherited a problem. When the Coalition came in, homelessness had fallen by 2/3rds. It's now going back up. A lot.

I'm sorry if you think you should get some credit for your philanthropy. That's not the way it works.

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Forward the New Republic

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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740

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The old saying about the US was that it produced private affluence, and public squalor, (Galbraith). The Tories also? Labour often come into office, and have to repair all the damage.

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the main fear that flat-earthers face is sphere itself.

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

I'm not going to sit here and claim that I'm some kind of paragon of virtue and compassion in my local community, because I'm not. But neither am I any worse than most people you'll meet.

Other people suck as well is hardly a fantastic standard.
quote:

If I get to the Pearly Gates and St Peter asks me for a character reference, I'll be pointing him towards the homeless on the streets of Birmingham

Because the policies you support helped put them there?

quote:
Nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus say "I was hungry and thirsty, and you posted about how the government should be doing more to help me on an internet bulletin board. Come, take your inheritance."

Cute, but stupid. You are responsible for what you do, and that includes the repercussions of your voting.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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deano
princess
# 12063

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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
The old saying about the US was that it produced private affluence, and public squalor, (Galbraith). The Tories also? Labour often come into office, and have to repair all the damage.

Wrong way round. Labour fuck things up royally when they are in office and then the electorate realise they need someone to fix it so they vote Conservative.

Only the last time Labour was in power Brown and his cronies really fucked things up big time ti the pount where nine years later we are still having to fix it. But the electorate aren't stupid so they voted thenpm in again in 2015 because they know the scale of what Labour did.

It's a lesson the electorate apear have took to heart and they will keep voting Conservative for a good few elections yet.

[ 03. March 2017, 18:18: Message edited by: deano ]

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Labour fuck things up royally when they are in office and then the electorate realise they need someone to fix it so they vote Conservative.

Only the last time Labour was in power Brown and his cronies really fucked things up big time ti the pount where nine years later we are still having to fix it. But the electorate aren't stupid so they voted thenpm in again in 2015 because they know the scale of what Labour did.

[citation needed]

By any recognisable measure, the Conservatives leave the country in a poorer state than when they found it. Balance of payments, debt, funding for social programs (like prisons, the police, the NHS). It's almost as if they just piss it up against the wall, and boring old Labour have to come along and fix all those things - at an inevitable cost - which the Tories then carp on about. Endlessly.

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Forward the New Republic

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rolyn
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# 16840

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I'm no Tory boy but the general consensus is that things weren't too great in 79. Then come 97 things only 'Got Better' under New Labour because they inherited Major's hard earned Green shoots

Having said all that, a future Britain without a credible opposition is disconcerting. Mind you it's easy to forget, given all Labour's current woe, that the Tories are only in government with a slender majority.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
I'm no Tory boy but the general consensus is that things weren't too great in 79. Then come 97 things only 'Got Better' under New Labour because they inherited Major's hard earned Green shoots

Having said all that, a future Britain without a credible opposition is disconcerting. Mind you it's easy to forget, given all Labour's current woe, that the Tories are only in government with a slender majority.

I'm just going to repeat: Labour governments are more fiscally conservative than Conservative governments. Borrowing is lower. Inflation is lower. Unemployment is lower. Labour has managed budget surpluses and has, surprisingly, spent less than the Tories on infrastructure investment.

Source

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Forward the New Republic

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:

and has, surprisingly, spent less than the Tories on infrastructure investment.

This is not actually a good thing. Both spend to little on infrastructure and have a fix it when it fails attitude that is more costly than proper maintenance and building for the future.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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I appreciate it's not a good thing, but it does put the accusation of 'tax and spend' in a new light.

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Forward the New Republic

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alienfromzog

Ship's Alien
# 5327

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When you consider that Thatcher's government had peak North Sea oil revenues and privatisation receipts, their economic record is simply shocking. Not bad, awful.

However, why do people voted Conservative? At least in part because they believe the Tories are a party of good economic management. It's a myth, but it's not malevolence that votes for that myth.

AFZ

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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]

An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)

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Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Only the last time Labour was in power Brown and his cronies really fucked things up big time ti the pount where nine years later we are still having to fix it.

The reason it's taken nine years and still no end in sight is Osborne's economic policies were incompetent. Austerity doesn't work. It isn't working. It won't work. And as long as the Tories can keep blaming it on Labour and suckers keep buying their story the Tories have no incentive to make it work.

Brown deregulated the banks. Well, he shouldn't have. But did the Tories object at the time? No. Did they object later? No. Have they actually done anything about it to fix it? I've missed it if so.
Brown was handed an economic crash that started in the US because banks oversold rubbish mortgages. Brown and Darling pretty much stopped the rot. The UK economy and the world economy could be in a much worse place if Brown and Darling hadn't acted on a problem that was largely not their fault. And by May 2010 the economy was recovering.
And then Osborne got in and either through incompetence or on purpose screwed things up again. Do you remember all that talk of a double-dip recession? The reason we didn't get one was Osborne revised the figures.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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alienfromzog

Ship's Alien
# 5327

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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Only the last time Labour was in power Brown and his cronies really fucked things up big time ti the pount where nine years later we are still having to fix it.

The reason it's taken nine years and still no end in sight is Osborne's economic policies were incompetent. Austerity doesn't work. It isn't working. It won't work. And as long as the Tories can keep blaming it on Labour and suckers keep buying their story the Tories have no incentive to make it work.

Brown deregulated the banks. Well, he shouldn't have. But did the Tories object at the time? No. Did they object later? No. Have they actually done anything about it to fix it? I've missed it if so.
Brown was handed an economic crash that started in the US because banks oversold rubbish mortgages. Brown and Darling pretty much stopped the rot. The UK economy and the world economy could be in a much worse place if Brown and Darling hadn't acted on a problem that was largely not their fault. And by May 2010 the economy was recovering.
And then Osborne got in and either through incompetence or on purpose screwed things up again. Do you remember all that talk of a double-dip recession? The reason we didn't get one was Osborne revised the figures.

Indeed.

(Apologies for posting to my own blog but it's where I've put all the numbers together).

AFZ

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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]

An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)

Posts: 2099 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
chris stiles
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# 12641

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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:

Brown deregulated the banks. Well, he shouldn't have. But did the Tories object at the time? No. Did they object later? No.

They not only didn't object, but the feeling at the time was that deregulation should have gone a lot further:

https://image.guim.co.uk/sys-files/Politics/documents/2007/08/17/ECPGcomplete.pdf

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alienfromzog

Ship's Alien
# 5327

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quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:

Brown deregulated the banks. Well, he shouldn't have. But did the Tories object at the time? No. Did they object later? No.

They not only didn't object, but the feeling at the time was that deregulation should have gone a lot further:

https://image.guim.co.uk/sys-files/Politics/documents/2007/08/17/ECPGcomplete.pdf

Yep, this is one of my greatest annoyances. The Tories spend over a decade complaining that over-regulation in killing the UK economy. There when it turns out that the financial sector regulation was actually woefully too loose, they claim the moral high ground. Two things I am certain of in this context:
1) If the Tories had been in power in the lead-up to 2008, the crisis would have been the same or worse.
2) Cameron/Osborne would have never been anywhere near the brilliant management of the crisis provided by Brown and Darling.

History will be much kinder to Brown than the electorate were.

AFZ

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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]

An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)

Posts: 2099 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
chris stiles
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# 12641

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quote:
Originally posted by alienfromzog:

Yep, this is one of my greatest annoyances. The Tories spend over a decade complaining that over-regulation in killing the UK economy. There when it turns out that the financial sector regulation was actually woefully too loose, they claim the moral high ground.

Yes, key quotes:

"The government claims that this regulation is all necessary. They seem to believe that without it banks could steal our money"

"We see no need to continue to regulate the provision of mortgage finance, as it is the lending institutions rather than the client taking the risk"

"From its first days in office, a Conservative government should challenge the public and press assumptions that encourage excessive regulation, and explain the likely effects of and reasons for its regulatory reforms"

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Gamaliel
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# 812

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Arguing with Conservatives is something I can do, but a Conservative troll? What's the point? You just get a series of wind-ups.

It's not trolling if it's true.

Also it isn't trolling if that's how the other shippies paint you regardless of your actual opinions of course.

I mean someone who supported Ken Clarke in his bid to become leader of the Conservative Party is quite clearly a beastial nazi. Cheesy-drip has said so.

mr cheesy can be quite runny and the glop can get all over your fingers ...

Ken Clarke's a good guy. I like him.

I'm glad you supported his bid to become leader of the Conservative Party. Mind you, that tells us more about Ken Clark than it tells us about you.

You probably voted for him because he likes jazz and smokes a pipe or something.

You can't even spell 'bestial'.

You, sir, are a twat. You have shown us so. Time and time again.

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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