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Source: (consider it) Thread: Compassionate Conservatives
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
From Desmond Tutu:
quote:
“There comes a point where we need to stop just pulling people out of the river. We need to go upstream and find out why they’re falling in.”
In your case, it's because you're (by the way you vote) pushing them in.
I disagree. People are "falling in" for all kinds of reasons, many of them ultimately being due to their own poor choices. For what it's worth, I don't see any Party stopping people from falling in in the first place, they just have different approaches to pulling them out again.

quote:
I'm sorry if you think you should get some credit for your philanthropy. That's not the way it works.
Charitable giving means nothing if you don't vote for the correct Party. You heard it here first. Forget all that Bible stuff, the One and Only True Commandment is apparently "thou shalt vote Labour".

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Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 29732 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
People are "falling in" for all kinds of reasons, many of them ultimately being due to their own poor choices. For what it's worth, I don't see any Party stopping people from falling in in the first place, they just have different approaches to pulling them out again.

But I do see a party that's deliberately throwing people under the bus. And that's the party you're voting for. And I do see a party that's deliberately not pulling them out again. And that's also the party you're voting for.

quote:
Charitable giving means nothing if you don't vote for the correct Party. You heard it here first. Forget all that Bible stuff, the One and Only True Commandment is apparently "thou shalt vote Labour".
Try not to be too much of a self-righteously indignant little shit about this. If you help make people homeless, you don't get credit for helping them when they're homeless. It's not a difficult connection to make.

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Improbable Botany

Posts: 8550 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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Besides, it's perfectly acceptable to vote SNP, PC, LibDem, Green or some of the independents. It's only the ConUKIPers that are the problem.

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

Posts: 31799 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
But I do see a party that's deliberately throwing people under the bus. And that's the party you're voting for. And I do see a party that's deliberately not pulling them out again. And that's also the party you're voting for.

I can agree with the second part, but not the first. And on the subject of the first, how exactly do you think any Party can prevent people from becoming homeless in the first place?

quote:
quote:
Charitable giving means nothing if you don't vote for the correct Party. You heard it here first. Forget all that Bible stuff, the One and Only True Commandment is apparently "thou shalt vote Labour".
Try not to be too much of a self-righteously indignant little shit about this. If you help make people homeless, you don't get credit for helping them when they're homeless. It's not a difficult connection to make.
Again, there's a difference between making people homeless and not helping them when they are already homeless. And if I'm voting for a Party that does the latter then I think it's perfectly reasonable to make up the difference by helping the homeless when I can.

And I'm amazed you can have the gall to talk about my self-righteousness after some of the shit that's been sent my way purely because I have a different opinion about the best way to help the homeless.

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Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 29732 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Besides, it's perfectly acceptable to vote SNP, PC, LibDem, Green or some of the independents. It's only the ConUKIPers that are the problem.

I knew someone would say that! But posting that whole list would have spoiled the flow of my self-righteousness indignation [Biased]

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Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 29732 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
how exactly do you think any Party can prevent people from becoming homeless in the first place?

Seriously? You have to ask this? How about by not crushing them with punitive benefit sanctions? How about providing services for people with mental health problems that allows them to stay in their own homes? How about not taking housing benefit away from the most vulnerable? How about not putting in ridiculous work-capability assessments that are obviously and repeatedly unfair?

Are you that insular and/or selfish?

quote:
Again, there's a difference between making people homeless and not helping them when they are already homeless. And if I'm voting for a Party that does the latter then I think it's perfectly reasonable to make up the difference by helping the homeless when I can.
Oh ffs. You voted for the Leopards-eating-people's-faces party and you think it's okay because you run around with bandages to bind the wounds of those who've had their faces eaten by leopards.

Well done. Well done you, you massive cockwomble.

quote:
And I'm amazed you can have the gall to talk about my self-righteousness after some of the shit that's been sent my way purely because I have a different opinion about the best way to help the homeless.
No, you don't have a different opinion about the best way to help the homeless. You have a different opinion about the best way to make people homeless. If you can't tell the difference, you're beyond saving.

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Improbable Botany

Posts: 8550 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641

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quote:

How about providing services for people with mental health problems that allows them to stay in their own homes? How about not taking housing benefit away from the most vulnerable? How about not putting in ridiculous work-capability assessments that are obviously and repeatedly unfair?



A recent example of this kind of policy:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/housing-benefit-young-people-18-21-scrapped-universal-credit-exemptions-a761058 1.html

Posts: 3606 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged
alienfromzog

Ship's Alien
# 5327

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
I disagree. People are "falling in" for all kinds of reasons, many of them ultimately being due to their own poor choices. For what it's worth, I don't see any Party stopping people from falling in in the first place, they just have different approaches to pulling them out again.

Ah yes, the standard evasion. blame the poor for being poor.
[Roll Eyes] [brick wall]
quote:
So wickedly, devilishly false is that common
objection, ‘They are poor, only because they are
idle’.

John Wesley, 1753

Well, this is now four years old, but here's a brilliant piece of work done by the Baptist Union of Great Britain, the Methodist Church, the Church of Scotland and the United Reformed Church:
The lies we tell ourselves: ending comfortable myths about poverty.

And here are my reflections on this report. Which do you prefer?
  • Eliphaz the Martian,
  • Bildad the Martian, or
  • Zophar the Martian.

[Biased]

AFZ

--------------------
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]

An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
No, you don't have a different opinion about the best way to help the homeless. You have a different opinion about the best way to make people homeless. If you can't tell the difference, you're beyond saving.

Doesn't matter how many times you say it, it's still not true.

--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 29732 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
No, you don't have a different opinion about the best way to help the homeless. You have a different opinion about the best way to make people homeless. If you can't tell the difference, you're beyond saving.

Doesn't matter how many times you say it, it's still not true.
Right back at you.

And I don't think you'll find many people here who agree with you, not because we're all right-on lefties, but because we have some self-awareness and are able to recognise massive cognitive dissonance when we see it.

[edited to add]

The very best way of helping homeless people not be homeless is empirically to vote for a Labour government. Anything else that you do is, at best, rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic, and at worst, deliberately driving the ship into the iceberg just so you can pluck a few lucky souls from the freezing waters.

[ 05. March 2017, 13:26: Message edited by: Doc Tor ]

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Improbable Botany

Posts: 8550 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
deano
princess
# 12063

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Besides, it's perfectly acceptable to vote SNP, PC, LibDem, Green or some of the independents. It's only the ConUKIPers that are the problem.

It is a pity that those "problem" parties are the one getting the votes that matter.

It isn't really a pity though.

[ 05. March 2017, 19:02: Message edited by: deano ]

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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You are such a wanker, your entire body must have carpal tunnel

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Besides, it's perfectly acceptable to vote SNP, PC, LibDem, Green or some of the independents. It's only the ConUKIPers that are the problem.

It is a pity that those "problem" parties are the one getting the votes that matter.

It isn't really a pity though.

True. For well-off fascists who don't give a shit it must be a wet dream. If we're going to be dragged to hell in a handcart, it may as well be as soon as possible.

Farage was/is the epitome of the hobbyist politician who has nothing to lose either way, however the vote goes. And many Conservatives would appear to be little better.

That's why he's been whining recently about feeling 'unsafe'. He's just found out that when you fuck with people's lives - real live human beings with actual lives of their own - and change the face of political life by compromising the truth, fostering and amplifying complex societal fears, scapegoating the minority, and encouraging racism, it might just come back to bite you on the arse.

Public accountability and self-sacrificial commitment are not what he signed up for. His ego is both too large and too fragile to hack the demands of that real kind of political endeavour, which builds and benefits society; not splintering it without hope of remedy. No wonder he chickened out of leadership as soon as the damage with the Brexit vote had been done. He really thought he could just walk away.

However, he's too wealthy to be inconvenienced for too long. As usual it'll be the vulnerable who have to cope with the damage he helped to cause.

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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!

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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Besides, it's perfectly acceptable to vote SNP, PC, LibDem, Green or some of the independents. It's only the ConUKIPers that are the problem.

It is a pity that those "problem" parties are the one getting the votes that matter.

It isn't really a pity though.

Deano, you're not at al compassionate. That should let you sleep more easily tonight. But your certainly not Conservative either - to the extent that you may be capable of forming some political thoughts, a far-right radical is much closer to the mark.

Anselmina who's the "he" you refer to a bit in your post please?

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:

Anselmina who's the "he" you refer to a bit in your post please?

That'd be former UKIP leader and general arse Nigel "Cabbage" Farage. You could google but I wouldn't bother if I was you.

He stood on a popularist xenophobic platform and then resigned as party leader to take up a career as a TV pundit, in addition to his increasingly part-time role as a Member of the European Parliament.

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my new book: Biblical But Bollocks. Available in all good bookshops.

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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Don't forget buddy to Donald Trump, aspiring British Ambassador to the US and under the impression that destroying British society means he deserves a knighthood.

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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That last bit seems rather counter-productive...

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Gee D
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# 13815

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Thanks - I thought that it was probably Farage, but was not certain. A nasty piece of work - is he Deano's twin separated at birth?

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Don't forget buddy to Donald Trump, aspiring British Ambassador to the US and under the impression that destroying British society means he deserves a knighthood.

But only because his originally preferred option of being elevated to the House of Lords would mean that he'd have to step down as an MEP (and with that lose that salary and the associated perks).
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Rosa Winkel

Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424

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quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Thanks - I thought that it was probably Farage, but was not certain. A nasty piece of work - is he Deano's twin separated at birth?

For all his sins, Farage comes across as having intelligence. So no, he isn't.

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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist in a Purgatory thread:
Mrs May made what seems to be a commitment to a Trump state visit invitation so quickly because (a) she was the first foreign head of state to visit Washington after the election, and (b) it was being screeched by everyone - but especially the REMAIN camp - that the Brexit vote would leave the UK isolated and that we should protect the "special relationship" at all costs. The newspapers were also full of the view that UK trade would need to increase exports to the US after leaving the EU.

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Mrs May shares any of Mr Trump's views, and to suggest otherwise is unfair. Far from being right wing (which you imply is automatically a bad thing) Mrs May has a reputation for being neither of the left nor the right. As for her being "uncaring", again where is your evidence?

The fact is, some people seem to be anti Mrs May simply because she is a conservative: that thinking is as sloppy as it would be for an assumption to be made that anyone who self-described as "left-wing" to have been in sympathy with the likes of George Galloway and Jeremy Corbyn.

Seriously: what. the. fuck. are. you. talking. about?

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my new book: Biblical But Bollocks. Available in all good bookshops.

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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I don't know which Purg thread that was. But, the main thing the Remain people are saying is that the UK needs to protect existing trading relations with the rest of the EU. Reducing tariffs with the US (or, the Commonwealth nations) will never increase trade enough to compensate for a collapse in trade with the EU. If we have to leave the EU (because a narrow majority in a poorly defined glorified opinion poll voted for it) at least Remain in the single market.

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

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Jemima the 9th
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# 15106

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Words fail me (an unusual thing) when it comes to the bastardry of these bastards. As of April 2018 the govt are going to impose an arbitrary cap on the amount people can claim on the Access To Work scheme. This will force some disabled people out of work. It'll make the govt all of about £3m.

It will also directly affect a friend of mine, who has a good job and pays her damn taxes. And happens to have a significant physical disability. I really, really hope she can keep her job, because, frankly, she's bloody great at it.

It makes no sense economically. It's an ideological attack on people who are the least able to fight back. The muppetry is astounding.

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Jemima the 9th:

It makes no sense economically. It's an ideological attack on people who are the least able to fight back. The muppetry is astounding.

In the first place it certainly makes no sense because more people will become net claimants rather than contributors (in budgetary terms) and secondly 'ideological attacks of people who can least afford it' is the cornerstone, if not the millstone, of modern British Conservatism.

Muppetry doesn't cover it. It is vindictiveness.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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alienfromzog

Ship's Alien
# 5327

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Jemima the 9th:

It makes no sense economically. It's an ideological attack on people who are the least able to fight back. The muppetry is astounding.

In the first place it certainly makes no sense because more people will become net claimants rather than contributors (in budgetary terms) and secondly 'ideological attacks of people who can least afford it' is the cornerstone, if not the millstone, of modern British Conservatism.

Muppetry doesn't cover it. It is vindictiveness.

But it's really easy to spin it as getting the welfare budget under control

AFZ

--------------------
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]

An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)

Posts: 2097 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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Meanwhile we transfer vast amounts of public funds directly to the pockets of big business, without insisting any actual work is done in return.

The Tories are the biggest 'welfare queens' in the country.

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Improbable Botany

Posts: 8550 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged



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