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» Ship of Fools   » Community discussion   » Hell   » Calling Russ, You Callous Bastard (Page 2)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Calling Russ, You Callous Bastard
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I do not care that he might occasionally say something decent, not any more.

And also with you.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 17792 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I do not care that he might occasionally say something decent, not any more.

And also with you.
I do not pretend that I am a good person. And I can be mean.
But if you are seriously putting me in the same catagory as those wastes of carbon, then fuck the hell off.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 15193 | From: out of the corner of your eye | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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Yes, because I am committed to permanently putting people in categories. FFS.

You might not pretend to be a good person, but you generally do a fairly good impression of an intelligent one. But wow are you being dumb right now. You're engaging in the kind of petulance I more generally associate with the President of the United States.

You are openly saying that if Russ dropped an utter pearl of wisdom you would reject it. Have you actually stopped, for one second, to consider what he said? Did it get through when I said it instead, or am I as equally valueless? Or is the thought permanently tainted once you know Russ had it?

Do you not realise how UTTERLY open to manipulation you are if you only care about the messenger and not the message? After all, this is exactly how politics works now. People who live in thought bubbles where they blindly accept what the "right" person says and immediately reject what the "wrong" person says. And you're fucking embracing that approach.

[ 25. March 2017, 13:06: Message edited by: orfeo ]

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

You are openly saying that if Russ dropped an utter pearl of wisdom you would reject it.

Not exactly what I said. But let me clarify things for you.
If Russ said he liked puppies, I am not going to assume he is lying or that he means he likes to squish his toes in the entrails of still writhing puppies. I would assume, barring further content, that he means he likes them for the same reason most people do; they are furry babies.
However, given a statement which can be viewed negatively, I am going to assume it negative given his posting history. Unless he gives evidence otherwise.

quote:

Have you actually stopped, for one second, to consider what he said?

Yes, and gave three interpretations of what he said.

quote:

Did it get through when I said it instead, or am I as equally valueless? Or is the thought permanently tainted once you know Russ had it?

You are making your evaluation of what you think he might be saying with less evidence or context than I am.

You aren't worthless, BTW. Annoying at times, but not worthless.
quote:

Do you not realise how UTTERLY open to manipulation you are if you only care about the messenger and not the message? After all, this is exactly how politics works now. People who live in thought bubbles where they blindly accept what the "right" person says and immediately reject what the "wrong" person says. And you're fucking embracing that approach.

That is one hell of an extrapolation. I don't even do that here.

When Russ utters a pearl of wisdom, let me know. Until then, I will be cautious stepping in what he typically utters?

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 15193 | From: out of the corner of your eye | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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Oh for fuck's sake I am NOT using less evidence or context. I READ THE THREAD HE POSTED ON!

Gosh, what a surprising idea, eh? Instead of citing the whole History of Russ, I looked at the conversation with which Russ was involved. The one where he wasn't the first person to put "poor" in quotes.

The one where it's easy to figure out that Russ was targeting well-meaning materialists because there's a bunch of people discussing the motives of the poor in a way that assumes being poor ought to determine one's vote.

I'm not using less context than you. I'm using context that makes SENSE.

Go on, any minute now you'll say "I missed that". The way you did after God knows how many posts suggesting a journalist wrote sympathetically about pedophilia when I finally got you to reread the relevant material.

Either that or you'll confirm how you don't care what anyone else said in the thread because it's all Russ, Russ, Russ, drowning out in your head any context that wasn't penned by Russ. You keep talking about Russ instead of talking about the thread.

[ 25. March 2017, 21:08: Message edited by: orfeo ]

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 17792 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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Of course it is about Russ. He said what he did, no one said it for him.
How does it matter if he was the first one to use "the poor" in quotes?

You are using the context that supports your argument. How can it not make sense to consider the track record of someone made a statement?
Especially when that statement doesn't appear to be a direct response to any post anywhere near it and there is no follow up to clarify.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 15193 | From: out of the corner of your eye | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Of course it is about Russ. He said what he did, no one said it for him.
How does it matter if he was the first one to use "the poor" in quotes?

Right. We're going with ongoing allegiance to stupidity, then. Carry on, I'm done.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 17792 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Of course it is about Russ. He said what he did, no one said it for him.
How does it matter if he was the first one to use "the poor" in quotes?

Right. We're going with ongoing allegiance to stupidity, then. Carry on, I'm done.
Cute. Russ' post wasn't tied very strongly to what was being said, but whatever floats your boat.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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<Munches warm cashews. Drinks Mousethief Cooler.>

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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Ah, cashews.

I fear your entertainment might be petering out, though. You see, when someone makes a nasty post and gets called to Hell for it, there is usually a steady entry of new people turning up to explain why the post was nasty.

This isn't happening in this case. This is following the other path of Hell calls, which is "why the fuck are you calling someone to Hell over that thoroughly reasonable post?", and it tends to peter out a lot more quickly. There being no genuine fuel for the fire. The anger is only secondary.

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 17792 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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The way I see it is that they are not aware of Russ' pattern of posting. He has a tendency to post in a way that appears misguided, but might not be ill-intentioned. Like your racist, homophobic "that is the was it was" grand-parent. But the mask slipped down here and he fully revealed this was a guise. He is a troll. Perhaps only part-time, but a troll no less.
I owe him no consideration.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
<Munches warm cashews. Drinks Mousethief Cooler.>

{Passes Camp Fire Thin Mints around.}

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 16811 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Mmmmmmm. I missed them this year.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 19370 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
The way I see it is that they are not aware of Russ' pattern of posting.

[Roll Eyes]

The way I see it, any time a crime is committed all the people roundabout who've been in jail should be rounded up. They did it before, chances are they did it this time too.

So let's just assume that. Let's not gather evidence about what happened THIS time, it'll take too much effort.

Lilbuddha, every time you double down on justifying why you shouldn't have to consider the contents of a particular post because you can just work off your knowledge of previous posts, I think a little less of you.

Which I will, of course, out of respect for your own beliefs, use to think less of your future posts. After all, you're showing on such a regular basis how stubbornly you can stick to a prejudice, I should just assume from now on that's probably what you're doing. It'll save me time.

You are embodying the very definition of prejudice, of judging beforehand. And you're fucking proud of it. You're urging other people to join you in your assumptions. All the people who turned up on this thread and said "I don't see anything wrong with that post by Russ", you actually hope to get them to change their view about the post they read by showing them OTHER posts.

You are quite seriously trying to prove a wrongdoing by pointing to past wrongdoings. You are the self-appointed posting police who "knows Russ' type" and, if he fails on a particular occasion to provide evidence of wrongdoing, you'll manufacture some to ensure the right result.

There is a reason why someone's past criminal history is not admissible in a criminal trial. It's precisely to prevent the flawed reasoning you are openly and repeatedly advocating.

[ 26. March 2017, 12:59: Message edited by: orfeo ]

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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I'll be honest and admit that my first reaction was a four-finger salute.
And then a scathing, biting reply.
I've an anger issue, this I've admitted and anger influences my responses, this I know.
So I had a cuppa and thought about this as dispassionately as I can, and I do not see Russ' statement in the light you do.
And here I was going to leave it, but I cannot let go pride enough to do so: I have issued far many more apologies, Mea Culpa, oops, my bad; than stubborn refusals to accede.
Pride would not let your accusation stand without response. But I will not tell you how you must, or even whether you should, evaluate this.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
You see, when someone makes a nasty post and gets called to Hell for it, there is usually a steady entry of new people turning up to explain why the post was nasty.

This isn't happening in this case. This is following the other path of Hell calls, which is "why the fuck are you calling someone to Hell over that thoroughly reasonable post?", and it tends to peter out a lot more quickly. There being no genuine fuel for the fire. The anger is only secondary.

Actually, Sioni Sais started the thread, and Callan said he thought the post was cynical and supercilious, though not in the top 10 (whether he meant the top 10 mean Russ posts or the top 10 mean posts ever I can't tell). lilBuddha isn't all alone.

Personally I wonder how on earth Russ can possibly have any insight into the motivation of the many disparate people who make up "the poor," given his long history of demonstrating no feeling whatsoever for people who are not like him.

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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Oh, and just as soon as the rules of courts of law apply here, you'll be among the first to know.
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815

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Orfeo,it's often no longer the case that an accused's history is inadmissible - think of the growth of tendency evidence in cases of child sexual abuse. I don't like it one little bit, but prosecutors have been given it and use it. One thing if an accused gives evidence of good character - the prosecution has plenty of power to bring in contrary evidence; very much another to allow it to be slipped in at an early stage in a trial. A lazy technique.

I still don't see what was so bad about this particular post to justify the Hell call as one of the 10 nastiest ever. I thought that it may have been the last straw.

--------------------
Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Personally I wonder how on earth Russ can possibly have any insight into the motivation of the many disparate people who make up "the poor," given his long history of demonstrating no feeling whatsoever for people who are not like him.

I saw him as commenting more on the way in which other Shipmates were claiming insight into the motivation of the poor.

And indeed, the way in which the poor were being defined purely by their material circumstances (rather than being "many disparate people"), and examined en masse for having failed to vote themselves out of poverty.

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Orfeo,it's often no longer the case that an accused's history is inadmissible - think of the growth of tendency evidence in cases of child sexual abuse. I don't like it one little bit, but prosecutors have been given it and use it. One thing if an accused gives evidence of good character - the prosecution has plenty of power to bring in contrary evidence; very much another to allow it to be slipped in at an early stage in a trial. A lazy technique.

I still don't see what was so bad about this particular post to justify the Hell call as one of the 10 nastiest ever. I thought that it may have been the last straw.

I guess that was it. Russ had passed into the zone where found debate useless. Something Had To Be Done. It wasn't very good, but it stood for something.

As I said earlier, I should have posted on the existing Russ thread.

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