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» Ship of Fools   » Community discussion   » Hell   » May I please rip off your gonads? (Page 2)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: May I please rip off your gonads?
Matt Black

Shipmate
# 2210

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I made the mistake of reading the first link despite the Hostly warning: "Ohfuckohfuckohfuckohfuckohfuck!!"

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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)

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Dark Knight

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quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:


I am not sure of criminal procedures in Victoria, where he is charged. In NSW, he could make an application to be tried by a judge alone, ie without a jury.

Which is relevant, because ...

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Wronger than a drooling idiot on stupid juice - but I understand his argument.
mousethief (paraphrase)
----
Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).

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Gee D
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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight:
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:


I am not sure of criminal procedures in Victoria, where he is charged. In NSW, he could make an application to be tried by a judge alone, ie without a jury.

Which is relevant, because ...
Because he will be tried in Victoria not NSW. He might well conclude after all the publicity that he would receive a fairer trial by judge alone than one before a jury.

[ 05. July 2017, 03:27: Message edited by: Gee D ]

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Dark Knight

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Right. Because judges are always fair.
Anyway, I was wrong - Cardinal Pell returned home after all, to his credit. I guess we will see what happens.
Returning to this thread, the Bishop of Newcastle who did very little to prevent or halt these abuses has finally finished his term as Archbishop of Perth last Friday.

[ 10. July 2017, 02:30: Message edited by: Dark Knight ]

--------------------
Wronger than a drooling idiot on stupid juice - but I understand his argument.
mousethief (paraphrase)
----
Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).

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Gee D
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My experience in 45 or so years of practice is that while some judges can be absolute bastards to appear before, there have been very few cases where the result could reasonably be thought to have been unfair.

A judge is required to give reasons, exposing how the conclusion was reached; that by itself militates in favour of a fair decision. An important factor in the Pell prosecution is that a judge will put aside the publicity about Pell in reaching a decision, and in particular the Tim Minchin bit of silliness.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Dark Knight

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That's nice. I have experience of appearing before one judge, and he was both a moron (which goes without saying - he was a lawyer, after all), and very unfair. That was a family court case.
And I loved the Tim Minchin "bit of silliness." For those of you who have not had the pleasure, you're welcome.

--------------------
Wronger than a drooling idiot on stupid juice - but I understand his argument.
mousethief (paraphrase)
----
Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).

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Gee D
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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight:
That's nice. I have experience of appearing before one judge, and he was both a moron (which goes without saying - he was a lawyer, after all), and very unfair. That was a family court case.
And I loved the Tim Minchin "bit of silliness." For those of you who have not had the pleasure, you're welcome.

And I assume that you did not achieve the outcome you were looking for.

Minchin was silly - it was very childish. More importantly, Pell may make an application for the criminal proceedings to be stayed on a range of bases, the time delay being one. He may also refer to such things as this along with newspaper articles and headlines, arguing that any jury trial would be compromised.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Bishops Finger
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All of which may well cause folk to say 'Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much.'

IOW, would it not be best (if he continues to maintain his innocence) to just get on with it as fast as possible?

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Dark Knight

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Yes, despite Gee's idiotic crystal ball gazing, it looks like Pell is actually coming back to try and clear his name. Not engage in law games. But I suppose time will tell.
Minchin's wonderful song was actually about Pell refusing to return to Australia to answer questions about abusers he knew about (not abuse he himself committed - perhaps even a judge could understand that distinction). It expressed the outrage many of us felt at Pell's actions at the time.

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Wronger than a drooling idiot on stupid juice - but I understand his argument.
mousethief (paraphrase)
----
Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).

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Dark Knight

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quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight:
That's nice. I have experience of appearing before one judge, and he was both a moron (which goes without saying - he was a lawyer, after all), and very unfair. That was a family court case.
And I loved the Tim Minchin "bit of silliness." For those of you who have not had the pleasure, you're welcome.

And I assume that you did not achieve the outcome you were looking for.
And I assume you have a point. Although based on previous interactions, all this demonstrates is my intrinsic (if frequently disappointed) sanguinness.

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Wronger than a drooling idiot on stupid juice - but I understand his argument.
mousethief (paraphrase)
----
Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).

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Gee D
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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight:
it looks like Pell is actually coming back to try and clear his name. Not engage in law games. But I suppose time will tell.

Pell does not have to prove anything, nor to "clear his name". The prosecution has to prove his guilt beyond reasonable doubt.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Gee D
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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
All of which may well cause folk to say 'Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much.'

IOW, would it not be best (if he continues to maintain his innocence) to just get on with it as fast as possible?

IJ

I have no idea of court delays in the state where he'll be charged. In NSW, times of more than a year after committal for trial are commonly quoted. That by itself causes injustice to an accused and the victims. To expedite any trial for Pell would cause a delay to others already in the system, and that should be avoided. Of course, we could always do away with criminal trials and leave it all to songwriters.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Dark Knight

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quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight:
it looks like Pell is actually coming back to try and clear his name. Not engage in law games. But I suppose time will tell.

Pell does not have to prove anything, nor to "clear his name". The prosecution has to prove his guilt beyond reasonable doubt.
Wait, are you a lawyer? It's been, like, twenty minutes since you mentioned it.

--------------------
Wronger than a drooling idiot on stupid juice - but I understand his argument.
mousethief (paraphrase)
----
Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).

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Matt Black

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I'm a lawyer and it's been more than 20 minutes since I last mentioned it.

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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)

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rolyn
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How many lawyers does it take to rip off someone's gonads?

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Caissa
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Lawyers don't need extra gonads.
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North East Quine

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Or indeed any gonads. I functioned perfectly well as a lawyer despite lacking male genitalia.
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Leorning Cniht
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quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
Or indeed any gonads. I functioned perfectly well as a lawyer despite lacking male genitalia.

Girls have gonads, too ;-) You'd have to rip them out, rather than off, and it's more of a challenge.
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Zappa
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Oh, Cthulu. Digressions, I think. [Disappointed]

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and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/

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Cthulhu
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Digressions can be delicious.

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I WILL DESTROY YOU ALL. Nothing personal.

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Ariston
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quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
Lawyers don't need extra gonads.

To the contrary, I fully plan on enjoying a nice, heaping plate of calf fries even after this whole "bar" thing is done. I could always use a few extra, if you wouldn't mind. Oh, and another lemon, please.

Many thanks.

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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Dark Knight

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Back to the OP, it is notable that a solicitor, Keith Allen, was an active agent of the abuse cover up, and actually coined the callous phrase that gave The Monthly article its title.
The unlamented Roger Herft has finally fucked off to retirement, having cost the Diocese of Perth over half a million in legal fees. He did nothing to prevent the abuses in Newcastle, and perhaps a gesture of actual contrition may have been to resign and bear his own legal costs himself as a private citizen.
But whatever - the lawyers got paid.

--------------------
Wronger than a drooling idiot on stupid juice - but I understand his argument.
mousethief (paraphrase)
----
Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).

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