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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Boris, you complete prick.
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
How far left the ship leans???
Ah well, must be something to do with the tilt of the world in the antipodes.
Anyway, in this case some background reading is required in order to understand what you are seeing. The relentless cozying up to Boris Johnson as a lovable buffoon, the ingrained privilege of his education, the unthinking belittling of anyone and everyone who disagreed with him, his complete failure to treat the mayoralty of London as anything more than an egofest.
Any given single outburst from him may not sound heinous, but it has to be read in context, particularly of the persist spin in his favour that makes the suspicious lift every single grain of sand in search for a lurking monster, which means that the gaslighting that generally goes on in his favour makes us look mad.
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
No, sorry, the Sikhs must have known what came with having a politician to visit during an election campaign.
I'm sure it is unfortunate that someone was offended and possibly Boris might have not mentioned it if he'd been a bit more clued up - but it is hardly a major problem even within Sikhism given that so many people drink.
It is absolutely like a reporter asking a politician about what they'd like to focus on with regard to EU trade deals whilst visiting a Synagogue during an election campaign and him/her talking about meat exports including beef, lamb and pork.
A Jew might have got offended he mentioned pork, just like a Christian I know got offended when a politician was talking (IIRC) about condoms during a hustings in a church.
It was a gaff. It wasn't a very important one and isn't really something to be blowing up into a massive deal.
[ 20. May 2017, 11:04: Message edited by: mr cheesy ]
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
You want to argue a different line that says policy discussion is in fact bad if it's done badly. Which actually does have some merit as an argument.
But then you go further and say he ought to have kept his gob shut? Well why the hell do you think he was even there, if not to talk about his party's policies?
Of course he was there to talk about his parties policies. And, in a Sikh temple it was natural that that included potential for future trade deals with India. But, at the end of the day he did it very badly, because his example of the benefits of UK-Indian trade was one that wouldn't resonate with the people he was addressing - and, more than that would be offensive to some. If the example you can think of is going to piss off your audience (or at best leave them cold) then, yes, he'd have done better to keep his gob shut. Better yet, do a wee bit of homework and find the examples which will appeal to your audience and talk about them. If he wants to promote the benefits of such a deal on sales of "clinky clinky" hold off that example until he visits a local brewery, or a distillery in Scotland.
Though I despise the bloke for his policies, and especially for willfully driving around the country in a bus displaying an outrageous lie even after the lie was clear to all, that's not really why I get worked up by this sort of thing. The reason this sort of thing gets people worked up so much is that he's the fucking Foreign Secretary, this buffoon who seems happy to revel in his ignorance of other cultures is supposed to be representing my country to other countries. He's supposed to be trying to present the UK as somewhere to do business, even after we sever our ties to the EU which has been one of the big selling points for the UK as a place to trade and do business. So, what do we present? A business like professionalism? No, we have a bumbling idiot who thinks it's good to talk about "clinky clinky", and even worse to do so in a place of worship for a religion which prohibits drinking alcohol.
If he was a magazine editor and frequent HIGNFY panelist we'd roll our eyes and move on. If he was just some back-bencher we'd do barely any more. But, he isn't. He holds one of the most important positions in the Cabinet. This bumbling buffoon is a disgrace to our nation, possibly more so than the rest of the shower who are set on doing all they can on making this country so much less than it is.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
Posted by Mr Cheesy:
quote:
No, sorry, the Sikhs must have known what came with having a politician to visit during an election campaign.
Oh, I see; everyone should just put up and shut up because its an election.
No, I don't think so. Surely politicians should take account of where they are and who they are talking to? I thought that was all part and parcel of politics, but perhaps all bets are off when they're in the midst of the dirty foreigners. Boris doesn't represent UKIP, but perhaps he'd be better suited to them.
I'm amazed at the blind willingness to continue giving this idiot a fool's pardon over and over and over and over and over and........
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
I'm amazed at the blind willingness to continue giving this idiot a fool's pardon over and over and over and over and over and........
I'm not giving anyone a pardon. The Tory policies are ridiculous. I just think kicking a politician for a minor mistake is stupid.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
I think you are right in thinking that any politician who makes a 'minor' mistake should;t be set upon by dogs, but that isn't Boris sadly. Boris seems to positively revel in his 'minor' mistakes, some not so minor at all, and yet oddly enough, very often directly relating to his post. Anyone could be forgiven for thinking that he holds it in contempt. You see, the thing is, it isn't just one mistake, it is repeated behaviour and some are beginning to wonder if a former private school boy with extensive public and political experience can really be that stupid. f he was a fresh faced, bumbling politician on his first year outing then there might be forgiveness there, but he's not and there really is a limit to putting up with his shit. For me, he crossed that point long before this incident.
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
SPAD: Boris, you're going to a Sikh temple tomorrow, and there are a few things you need to know before you go.
Boris: What what what? Indian chappies, turbans and dancing. Avoid the spicy food. That's everything, right?
SPAD: ... yes, Boris. That's everything. ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
I'm not sure I can follow your train of thought. You're pissed off because some people are irritated that Boris made another gaff and the same people are a bit fed up with a long train wreck of gaffs? You're pissed off because people are talking about it now? You're pissed off because some people - namely the people his comments were directed at and the same people in front of him he was addressing; the very same grouping that the Tories have a murky and deeply unpleasant history with - were irritated by the stupidity of Boris despite probably feeling that (bearing in mind the sensitivities of such a visit by a Tory member of government) he would in all likelihood have been briefed in order to defray any 'difficult' scenes? You're pissed off because the Sihks' had the good grace to have a Tory in their Gudwara, despite the past and the fact that there is at least some responsibility for the deaths in 1984 (of which it is not unreasonable to suggest that some may be family members or friends) on the part of the party this buffoon represents, makes a thorough mess of the gesture by acting the wag yet again?
Yes....I'm sure you've a lot to be pissed off about, I just don't see it here.
I'm pissed off because every time I look for a reason to properly resume my tending of Hell, I'm faced with squeaking twaddle.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
You see, the thing is, it isn't just one mistake, it is repeated behaviour and some are beginning to wonder if a former private school boy with extensive public and political experience can really be that stupid.
I tend to think that the well-meaning public school buffoon act is entirely deliberate. Boris creates a caricature of himself. Whether presenting himself as "friendly bumbling idiot" is tactically sound or not is a question that I don't think I'm able to answer, but I think it's intentional.
Sure - his character naturally tends to public school buffoonery, but he cultivates it in order to achieve his goals.
And the evidence seems to be that he is rather more liked by the public than most politicians. His amiable buffoon act plays well among the public. I've no idea how it plays with his foreign counterparts, but it wouldn't surprise me if it worked quite well there, too.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
Posted by Orfeo:
quote:
I'm pissed off because every time I look for a reason to properly resume my tending of Hell, I'm faced with squeaking twaddle.
Channeling your inner Boris?
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
There's a big difference between taking part in a debate and stating you disagree about x, or are an atheist, versus - say - wandering around a mosque with your shoes on, or using a votive candle to light your fag.
Oh FFS, you'd think he'd taken a bottle of wine with him and swigged from it.
Seriously, you just made a comparison where, on one side, you have debate and policy, and on the other you have actions. And yet you still look as if you're trying to place Boris on the naughty side of your comparison.
He made a statement about policy. It's there in the article. He made a statement about what a future Conservative government would do. In which case he clearly belongs on the GOOD side of the comparison that you yourself set up.
I don't really give a damn about the man or his policies, but I do give a damn about the rampant bias that is showing in this conversation.
If you accept a person in a church stating in a debate that they disagree with a church policy, then exactly the same logic applies to stating in a Sikh temple that your policy is contrary in some way to a Sikh teaching.
The only reason for not treating those two situations the same is the kind of fetishistic treatment of other religions and cultures that mainstream people often engage in as they fall over themselves trying to demonstrate just how culturally sensitive they are.
You appear to have theology and political policy confused.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
this is part of a pattern of arrogant indifference.
Ever since I saw this clip I've been looking for a way to summarise it and this is it. The clip oozes this attitude.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
For clarity, there is no expectation for politicians to share the beliefs of a particular faith community (especially not in the UK), but you respect customs in a place of worship and you don't announce trident renewal in a Quaker meeting house, your stimulus to the brewing industry in a mosque, or your new pork subsidy in a synagogue. It's just rude, not catastrophic, but tactless.
In Boris's case it will always catch attention, because he's famous, and because he does this all the fucking time. It was less racist than the last two more high profile "gaffes", which is a blessing I suppose. (Obama's part-Kenyan ancestral hatred of the UK, some part of the EU being like Hitler. I doubt his limerick about Erdogan fucking a goat did much for international relationships either - though it was arguably more defensible.)
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
You appear to have theology and political policy confused.
You appear to believe they are separate categories. I think you'll find a heck of a lot of people believe they are intertwined.
In fact, isn't that the whole point of why this woman was aggrieved? The subject matter of the political policy intersected with the subject matter of her religious beliefs.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Bangs head against wall.
Can you not see the differences between debating a moral/theological question - having been invited to do so - and failing to account for blindingly obvious sensitivities in the course of a conversation that is not a theological debate ?
Normally talking to other people's 11 year olds children about sex and masturbation is not acceptable, during a sex education lesson it becomes acceptable. Outside that context - not so much. Even if you are in the same classroom where you did the lesson.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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