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Source: (consider it) Thread: Not again
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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Fuck

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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quote:
Police have confirmed children are among the 22 people who were killed
Fuck again.
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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Scary times.

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my new book: Biblical But Bollocks. Available in all good bookshops.

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mark_in_manchester

not waving, but...
# 15978

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quote:
Indeed, an hour is coming when those who kill you will think that by doing so they are offering worship to God.
From last night's lectionary reading, to which I turned when I heard the news.

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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

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Dark Knight

Super Zero
# 9415

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quote:
Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:
quote:
Indeed, an hour is coming when those who kill you will think that by doing so they are offering worship to God.
From last night's lectionary reading, to which I turned when I heard the news.
Indeed. [Votive]

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Wronger than a drooling idiot on stupid juice - but I understand his argument.
mousethief (paraphrase)
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Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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quote:
Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:
quote:
Indeed, an hour is coming when those who kill you will think that by doing so they are offering worship to God.

From last night's lectionary reading, to which I turned when I heard the news.
Not sure how much help that is - many different factions in various conflicts we're involved in seem to think that they're offering worship to God.

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my new book: Biblical But Bollocks. Available in all good bookshops.

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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Is it possible for you just once to refrain from gratuitously pissing immediately on other people's heartfelt comments, especially when expressed from the epicentre of a traumatic event?

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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mark_in_manchester

not waving, but...
# 15978

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It seemed too political to add such a 'lectio' word to an all-saints thread, and foolish also to add it here. You won't like the next verse either, I guess:

quote:
And they will do this because they have not known the Father or me.
But then that goes for Timothy McVeigh, PIRA, UVF...all of us, God save us.

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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

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mark_in_manchester

not waving, but...
# 15978

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I'm going to leave this thread - sorry folks, I shouldn't have come. If anyone wants to follow the reading and reflect on it, I use this.

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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

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Heard it in the night on World Service, which I use to combat insomnia.
From the reports, it sounds as though some of the children there may be finding that their parent, or, God help them, parents, are among the victims.

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Is it possible for you just once to refrain from gratuitously pissing immediately on other people's heartfelt comments, especially when expressed from the epicentre of a traumatic event?

I wasn't doing anything gratutiously, I was reflecting on the lextionary, which is rather the point of it.

The event is disgusting. The calls for internment in the wake of it are fascist.

How about you take your self-righteousness and put it away and allow people to reflect and come to terms with this event in their own way?

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my new book: Biblical But Bollocks. Available in all good bookshops.

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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128

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We have all been shocked, sickened, appalled by this event. But isn't the fact that we have already descended to argument one of the responses that the terrorists are hoping to evoke?

I know this is Hell, and I know I'll get accused of junior hosting ... but please let's not go down this line.

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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I think Jesus was talking about the near future, not 2000 years away.

These things happened then, but the weapons were not as destructive [Tear]

For every terrorist there are 50,000,000 good people helping in every way they possibly can. All strength to them.

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Garden. Room. Walk

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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I don't know yet who did this.

But to whoever it is: Fuck You.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Is it possible for you just once to refrain from gratuitously pissing immediately on other people's heartfelt comments, especially when expressed from the epicentre of a traumatic event?

I wasn't doing anything gratutiously
A piece of advice, that is probably true in almost all situations, if your first thought is "I'm not sure if this will help" then the best course of action is not to say anything. I say that as someone who would tend towards wanting to analyse and discuss things, recognising that most people at the moment don't find that helpful.

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

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Matt Black

Shipmate
# 2210

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Fucking Hell

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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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Please stop giving me advice. I think that words matter and that various groups are using weapons as worship of God.

I think it is helpful to reflect upon that at this time.

If you don't like that thought, don't post in hell.

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my new book: Biblical But Bollocks. Available in all good bookshops.

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I think that words matter and that various groups are using weapons as worship of God.

I think it is helpful to reflect upon that at this time.

Knock yourself out. I'm sure that could be discussed in Purgatory. Or, Kerygmania if you want to reflect on the lectionary passage. Whether anyone else is interested in discussing your sanctimonous twaddle is another matter.

quote:
If you don't like that thought, don't post in hell.

You don't get to make that decision. Even I don't get to make that decision.

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I think it is helpful to reflect upon that at this time.

Reflection isn't banned in Hell, but, you know, the fact that the pools of water keep evaporating makes it difficult.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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OK whatever.

I'm sorry for posting a thought that isn't acceptable and which caused pain.

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my new book: Biblical But Bollocks. Available in all good bookshops.

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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Props to my dear friend and Mancunian Andrew Graystone for doing something helpful, recognised as such to the extent that the BBC upgraded his hastily-penned Prayer For The Day, requested at 2am, to today's Radio 4 Thought For The Day.

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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Teekeey Misha
Shipmate
# 18604

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This magnificent city has faced assault before (the Manchester Blitz and the IRA bombing of 1996 for example) but we are a resilient folk in the North West. We were not cowed before and we will not be cowed now. We will weep but, supporting each other, we will stand again.

"Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted." Matt 5:4

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Misha
Don't assume I don't care; sometimes I just can't be bothered to put you right.

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RooK

Rocky Mountain SLAYER
# 1852

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
OK whatever.

I'm sorry for posting a thought that isn't acceptable and which caused pain.

Growth is the best kind of change. Thanks for the gesture.
Know that it wasn't a matter of acceptability, but entirely about the immediate pain of grief.

It is so saddening to see how hatred and fear is self-perpetuating. We are not better than this. But that doesn't mean we can't strive to be.

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Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

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It is an appalling attack. Aim to kill and maim people enjoying an evening out. Thoughts and prayers with all those involved. We had an email around today at work saying that some of our staff are affected (I don't know how closely or any more). It brings it very close to home - the reality that other people I may have spoken to or met, in an office like mine, are impacted.

And I was so angry at Amber Rudd this morning - "this attack on the most vulnerable among us". No they are not - and you should know, as you seek to attack them. They were not the very vulnerable - they were families, with money and ability to get out to a concert. Dragging out the usual trite phrases at a time like this.

These were normal, ordinary people, ordinary families, enjoying a night out at a concert. May God hold them all.

[ 23. May 2017, 17:22: Message edited by: Schroedinger's cat ]

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Blog
My books for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

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Manchester. Dignified, defiant, kind. The taxi drivers. The hotels. The poor helpless stupid bastard Salman Abedi and the spiritually destitute moral cretins behind him. Love will yet save them. It's already won this battle in ... Manchester.

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Love wins

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Callan
Shipmate
# 525

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Originally posted by Schroedinger's Cat:

quote:
And I was so angry at Amber Rudd this morning - "this attack on the most vulnerable among us". No they are not - and you should know, as you seek to attack them. They were not the very vulnerable - they were families, with money and ability to get out to a concert. Dragging out the usual trite phrases at a time like this.
I hold no brief for Ms. Rudd. But I struggle to think of anyone more vulnerable than an eight year old child caught in the blast radius of a terrorist bomb.

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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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Within the blast radius of a bomb everyone is equally vulnerable.

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

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Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Within the blast radius of a bomb everyone is equally vulnerable.

I think this is what I meant - we are all vulnerable to a bomb blast. We are all at risk from this.

These were ordinary people, out for an evening. It was us, you and me, not "the vulnerable", which is "others".

I don't know, it just sounded wrong, victim-blaming, typical Tory keywords. I don;t want to make something political out of it, I just found it wrong.

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Blog
My books for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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Curiosity killed ...

Ship's Mug
# 11770

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Schroedinger's Cat, my hackles rose when I heard Amber Rudd too. Horrendous incident, targeting a concert attracting a young audience, all that is horrible and evil. But not the "most vulnerable in our society", I immediately thought of the children in poverty and homeless, the ones where schools are fundraising to fund food parcels home and clothes to put on the children's backs, not those who can afford £50 odd a ticket to see a pop star.

[ 23. May 2017, 21:13: Message edited by: Curiosity killed ... ]

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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat

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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

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Callan.

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Love wins

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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

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quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
OK whatever.

I'm sorry for posting a thought that isn't acceptable and which caused pain.

Growth is the best kind of change. Thanks for the gesture.
Know that it wasn't a matter of acceptability, but entirely about the immediate pain of grief.

It is so saddening to see how hatred and fear is self-perpetuating. We are not better than this. But that doesn't mean we can't strive to be.

Manchester is.

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Love wins

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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

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quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
Schroedinger's Cat, my hackles rose when I heard Amber Rudd too. Horrendous incident, targeting a concert attracting a young audience, all that is horrible and evil. But not the "most vulnerable in our society", I immediately thought of the children in poverty and homeless, the ones where schools are fundraising to fund food parcels home and clothes to put on the children's backs, not those who can afford £50 odd a ticket to see a pop star.

I'm sorry but this is just weird. With a hint, an edge of ... nasty. There will have been working class and underclass kids there. Fifty quid for birthdays chipped in by family members, saved up four FOUR YEARS, paid on credit cards. The undeserving 'rich'? Bollocks.

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Love wins

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Curiosity killed ...

Ship's Mug
# 11770

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No Martin, it's a reflection on the children I work with, who don't get to go to concerts and who we send home with food parcels to make sure they get an evening meal. Several of them we are also providing with clothes that aren't in holes. Three of them have been evicted this year due to parents not being able to cover the rent.

That's not considering the neglect and maltreatment.

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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat

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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Within the blast radius of a bomb everyone is equally vulnerable.

Can't argue with that.
Our bombs, their bombs, all bombs.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Leorning Cniht
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# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

I don't know, it just sounded wrong, victim-blaming, typical Tory keywords.

Really not sure how you get to victim-blaming. To me, it was a fairly standard "this wasn't an attack on soldiers, it was an attack on a bunch of young girls" statement.
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Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

I don't know, it just sounded wrong, victim-blaming, typical Tory keywords.

Really not sure how you get to victim-blaming. To me, it was a fairly standard "this wasn't an attack on soldiers, it was an attack on a bunch of young girls" statement.
Can we halt this tangent - I think it is distracting. A couple of us found Rudds statement sounded wrong, but I don't think I am able to put into words exactly why.

But the read story is those killed and injured. And more so, those wonderful people who went in to help, who "pulled nails out of a childs face", who saved lives.

Manchester, you are amazing.

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Blog
My books for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Within the blast radius of a bomb everyone is equally vulnerable.

Exactly [Frown]

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Garden. Room. Walk

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

Children in Manchester didn't deserve to be blown up any more than children in Syria deserved to die or children on the Med deserve to drown or countless others deserve lives of misery.

Victim-blaming and scapegoating isn't going to help. We are all simultaneously to blame and also not to blame - none of us here physically blew anyone up or gave any succor to those who did. Those kids at a pop concert were not harming anyone beyond the crazed gaze of the fanatics.

But we are also all to blame for living in a world where shit happens. Where homeless people live outside stadiums where others spend £50 for a night of entertainment. Where we feed the press sharks to intrude into the grief of others to satisfy our appetite for personal stories. Where the state which has such potential to do so much good so often does such damage. Where bad things go on beyond the horizon in our name in places we don't know and can't understand.

The question is then whether we're going to turn on our neighbours, whether we're going to tweet crap about interning people, whether we're going to cower in fear of the brown face, whether we're going to reach for the pitchforks.

Or whether we're going to stand in the ashes and say Father forgive - not Father forgive them.

Because we must be kind to one another, tender hearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave us.

[ 24. May 2017, 07:25: Message edited by: mr cheesy ]

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my new book: Biblical But Bollocks. Available in all good bookshops.

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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

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quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
No Martin, it's a reflection on the children I work with, who don't get to go to concerts and who we send home with food parcels to make sure they get an evening meal. Several of them we are also providing with clothes that aren't in holes. Three of them have been evicted this year due to parents not being able to cover the rent.

That's not considering the neglect and maltreatment.

What's that got to do with this deliberate insane atrocity against innocent children, pretty young girls, by a helpless depraved loser unhinged by the worse suffering of his parental culture? Of which OUR shared culture, which almost helplessly allows the suffering you almost helplessly experience, is complicit. You are seeing the world through your MOST worthy glasses. There were similar voices after 9 11. Rowan Williams soared in my view by saying saying nothing was most appropriate.

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Love wins

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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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Can I just say that I think it's pretty fucking appalling that the Home Secretary *has had to tell* the US government to not leak anymore information that may undermine the investigation.

You know what, sod lighting up monuments and picking the right words for your tribute, don't fuck up attempts to find the perpetrator's associates and prevent a second attack [Mad]

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

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mr cheesy.

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Love wins

Posts: 15957 | From: More Corieltauvi than Dobunni now. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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When was the last time soldiers were deployed on the streets? 2005?
Posts: 7212 | From: Albury, Australia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

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quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

I don't know, it just sounded wrong, victim-blaming, typical Tory keywords.

Really not sure how you get to victim-blaming. To me, it was a fairly standard "this wasn't an attack on soldiers, it was an attack on a bunch of young girls" statement.
Can we halt this tangent - I think it is distracting. A couple of us found Rudds statement sounded wrong, but I don't think I am able to put into words exactly why.

But the read story is those killed and injured. And more so, those wonderful people who went in to help, who "pulled nails out of a childs face", who saved lives.

Manchester, you are amazing.

That ended better.

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Love wins

Posts: 15957 | From: More Corieltauvi than Dobunni now. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

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What is wrong with the FUCKING Americans? Morons, utter FUCKING morons.

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Love wins

Posts: 15957 | From: More Corieltauvi than Dobunni now. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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I'm sorry about both the bombing and the leak. Also the continued danger.
[Votive]

FWIW: I read the article to which Martin linked. I didn't see anything that specifically indicated it was someone in the US gov't who was the leak. (Especially with the current crew. The Keystone Cops (old comedy act in films) could do a much better job.) They may well have been. They seem to leak things all the time. But the major networks cited are quite capable of finding other sources.

*Not defending the leaker.* Just saying there may be more possibilities than the US gov't.

FWIW, YMMV.

I hope anyone else involved in what happened and/or any future plans is quickly caught and brought to justice.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17245 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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British newspapers said it was a US official who gave them the information.

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my new book: Biblical But Bollocks. Available in all good bookshops.

Posts: 9008 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Moo

Ship's tough old bird
# 107

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Victim-blaming and scapegoating isn't going to help. We are all simultaneously to blame and also not to blame - none of us here physically blew anyone up or gave any succor to those who did. Those kids at a pop concert were not harming anyone beyond the crazed gaze of the fanatics.

But we are also all to blame for living in a world where shit happens.

How can each of us, as individuals, avoid living in a world where shit happens?

Moo

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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.

Posts: 19997 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804

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We can't avoid it.
Maybe as individuals we can choose to sit in it...or shovel it though?

[ 24. May 2017, 12:13: Message edited by: Ethne Alba ]

Posts: 3072 | From: "....hallelujah for all of my days......" | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
passer

Indigo
# 13329

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Re: Americans spilling the beans - they can just do one, as far as I'm concerned, the fucking simpletons; anything to distract from the train-wreck which is their current political situation. President Buffoon is trying to find out how they financed the Wailing Wall and struggling to do joined-up writing in the guest book..... ooh, look - an Ayrab Name in England - let's put that out there, it'll be out eventually anyway, and we'll be first - Yay, go us!

My son's a nurse in Manchester as it happens, and it took an hour on the phone last night to calm him down and try to clear his mind after what was a difficult day. The arrest made in association with the bomber was from an address not far from where he lives too. Whilst Mrs passer and I were in conversation with him, he made no reference to the perp, or the perp's religion, or the perp's ethnicity, which is no more than I would have expected. He was far more forthcoming about the positives he witnessed - the un-rostered staff coming in to help out (medical and others), the food and coffee donated by local businesses to the hospitals, and the cameraderie evident between all the emergency services.

I'm not looking forward to the creeping politicisation of this outrage over the next couple of weeks as Theresa Thatcher seeks to emulate her heroine.

Posts: 1264 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128

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I read this article yesterday which I thought was rather good.
Posts: 8759 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged



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