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Source: (consider it) Thread: Jamat, you self-righteous fuckwit
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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You project like nobody's business. Where ever did I deny hypocrisy? Unlike you. You lie and you lie, and you think nobody notices. And why does this thread exist? Because you have the blasphemous audacity to tell other people they're not saved. As you're trying to do here, in a mealy-mouthed, deniable form.

--------------------
God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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Jamat
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# 11621

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
You project like nobody's business. Where ever did I deny hypocrisy? Unlike you. You lie and you lie, and you think nobody notices. And why does this thread exist? Because you have the blasphemous audacity to tell other people they're not saved. As you're trying to do here, in a mealy-mouthed, deniable form.

Well that is something. You do not deny hypocrisy.
I too do not deny I doubt many so called Christians actually know the Lord. What is hypocritical about it? As I have said many times, It would be terrible not to warn as the stakes a very high. You should be able to handle that without chucking your toys .
Why is this blasphemous? I include myself in my own warnings by the way.
The issue as I stated quite bluntly on the atonement thread is about grasping, experientially, not necessarily intellectually that you have embraced the Lord. Gamaliel would see my view as dualistic, Saved/lost. He is right; not a lot of nuance there but so what? Salvation is an eternal issue. I do not apologise for rubbing fur backwards. You can feel totally free to ignore but as you haven't and you have called me here, then at least discuss reasonably and stop being an ass.

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Palimpsest
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
You can feel totally free to ignore but as you haven't and you have called me here, then at least discuss reasonably and stop being an ass.

What's the matter? Is your fur being rubbed the wrong way?
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Jamat
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# 11621

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quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
You can feel totally free to ignore but as you haven't and you have called me here, then at least discuss reasonably and stop being an ass.

What's the matter? Is your fur being rubbed the wrong way?
Thanks for chipping in. Enjoy the show.

--------------------
Jamat ..in utmost longditude, where Heaven
with Earth and ocean meets, the setting sun slowly descended, and with right aspect
Against the eastern gate of Paradise. (Milton Paradise Lost Bk iv)

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mousethief

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I tried discussing things reasonably with you, Jamat. It failed spectacularly, thanks to your hypocrisy and hubris. That's why this thread exists. If you were actually able and willing to discuss things reasonably, this thread would not exist.

--------------------
God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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Gamaliel
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Don't presume to know what I'd say, Jamat.

Suggesting that there are the damned and there are the saved isn't dualistic.

Thinking you have some kind of infallible yardstick for determining who is in each category is.

FWIW, I don't like Mousethief's 'filthy language' either - which is hypocritical of me as I use it myself at times on these boards.

I wish he didn't use it. But he does. I wish you were capable of nuance too but you aren't. I wish you weren't some kind of obscurantist, 6-Day Creationist with a ponderous line in numpty Dispensationalism too, but you are.

I wish everyone was as sane, balanced and nuanced as I am but that's not going to happen either ...

--------------------
Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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Jamat
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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I tried discussing things reasonably with you, Jamat. It failed spectacularly, thanks to your hypocrisy and hubris. That's why this thread exists. If you were actually able and willing to discuss things reasonably, this thread would not exist.

Noted. In your view 'reasonable' is anything you say it is, right?In that case this is over. For the record, I deny your aspersions and accusations. Also for the record, there is a difference between declaring what I think the Bible teaches defines a Christian, and judging who is one. I certainly did the former, the latter, people do all by themselves.

--------------------
Jamat ..in utmost longditude, where Heaven
with Earth and ocean meets, the setting sun slowly descended, and with right aspect
Against the eastern gate of Paradise. (Milton Paradise Lost Bk iv)

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Gamaliel
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You don't get it, do you Jamat?

'Judge not lest he also be judged ...'

I think I've read that somewhere ...

I wonder who said that?

--------------------
Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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Gamaliel
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Also, you don't recognise how disingenuous you are.

You are constantly insinuating that people aren't true believers. You've done it to Mousethief, you've done it to other people, you've done it to me.

Then you hide behind the pathetic, 'It's not me who says it, it'd the Bible. Look, it suddenly grew a pair of hind legs and walked across to [insert name of Shipmate] and opened it's mouth and said, "Nah nur na na na - he said a naughty wo-o-rd. He can't possibly be a Christian - not like Jamat who takes me completely literally, even talking snakes in Genesis and the imagery in Revelation ... na nur na na nah ...'

It really is pathetic.

--------------------
Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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mr cheesy
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# 3330

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This is a repeat announcement, do not adjust your sets, I repeat do not adjust your sets.

You are wasting your breath trying to make any kind of argument with Jamat.

--------------------
overheard on a Welsh bus-stop: Jesus don't care about you, he's only interested in your soul

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I tried discussing things reasonably with you, Jamat. It failed spectacularly, thanks to your hypocrisy and hubris. That's why this thread exists. If you were actually able and willing to discuss things reasonably, this thread would not exist.

Noted. In your view 'reasonable' is anything you say it is, right?In that case this is over. For the record, I deny your aspersions and accusations. Also for the record, there is a difference between declaring what I think the Bible teaches defines a Christian, and judging who is one. I certainly did the former, the latter, people do all by themselves.
You would make a wonderful Pharisee.

--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Gamaliel
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'Would'?

Correction:

'You ARE a wonderful Pharisee.'

@mr cheesy, looks like 'normal service' has been resumed ...

You're right. We are all wasting our time.

I might as well go into our local woods and strike up a debate with a tree-stump for the amount of 'give' and flexibility I'm going to get from Jamat and his brittle approach to issues of faith.

--------------------
Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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leo
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# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I tried discussing things reasonably with you, Jamat. It failed spectacularly, thanks to your hypocrisy and hubris. That's why this thread exists. If you were actually able and willing to discuss things reasonably, this thread would not exist.

Noted. In your view 'reasonable' is anything you say it is, right?In that case this is over. For the record, I deny your aspersions and accusations. Also for the record, there is a difference between declaring what I think the Bible teaches defines a Christian, and judging who is one. I certainly did the former, the latter, people do all by themselves.
You would make a wonderful Pharisee.
Don't diss the pharisees - they were far more inclusive.

--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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RooK

1 of 6
# 1852

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Well, that's a hell of a mic-drop for a Hell thread:
To have leo land a sick burn on you. Dayum.

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Jamat
Shipmate
# 11621

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quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Also, you don't recognise how disingenuous you are.

You are constantly insinuating that people aren't true believers. You've done it to Mousethief, you've done it to other people, you've done it to me.

Then you hide behind the pathetic, 'It's not me who says it, it's the Bible.

It really is pathetic.

Gamaliel, I am glad you posted as I think this will probably be, finally it, from me.

First, it is not 'disingenuous' which I take to mean naïve, to refer to the Bible as clearly teaching something. Bear in mind that the Bible is a library of Jewish literature compiled over 4000 or so years. It does clearly teach. It seeks to demonstrate and it certainly contains guidelines for establishing a relational connection with God through Christ. To suggest that 'interpretation' needs to occur is a given, but the interpretive approach often encountered in this internet puddle, is to glean whatever one wants to supplement the current wisdom or Zeitgeist which is inevitably an imposition of outside assumptions on the text itself.

Regarding insinuating. It is the reader who does this. The insinuation is not from the side of the author. Thus, it is the reader's assumption. You and others might well be saved, (shrug), I do not have to worry about you, only about me in that regard, but I am not taking a backward step from telling you what I think scripture teaches regarding salvation when so many voices want to fudge it.

If I am pathetic, then it is news to me but I am sad you think so.

Yes, It is rather pharisaical behaviour witnessed here. As I recall, they ganged up to confront Jesus on many occasions. The object inevitably was to justify what their little 'collective' taught and believed.

The 'who made you the judge' line wears a bit thin as well. One is suddenly the judge when pointing out what scripture says? Go figure! There are several occasions in the NT where the writer withstood opposing views, notably in Galatians. I am not saying I am like Paul in stature, only that it happened to him and to others. Judgement, in the sense of discerning between the truth and error is encouraged in scripture. Titus was encouraged to rebuke those who taught wrong doctrine(Titus:1,10). Paul did not retreat quoting:
'judge not lest you be judged' on any occasion that I recall.

However, in the end, I have no regard for your opinion or that of the demonstrably unchristlike folk such as Mousethief who called me here so he could show his true self as he has done to many other posters over the years in many other contexts. The criteria one uses to judge oneself must necessarily be above the opinions of others whom one does not know, on an internet forum but one is not thereby justified before God and I do not assume anything. You have your lives to live according to your lights. I wish you well.

--------------------
Jamat ..in utmost longditude, where Heaven
with Earth and ocean meets, the setting sun slowly descended, and with right aspect
Against the eastern gate of Paradise. (Milton Paradise Lost Bk iv)

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mousethief

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# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
In your view 'reasonable' is anything you say it is, right?

No.

quote:
First, it is not 'disingenuous' which I take to mean naïve
Just no. Look up words you don't know. Don't assume what they mean and make a fool of yourself.

quote:
To suggest that 'interpretation' needs to occur is a given, but the interpretive approach often encountered in this internet puddle, is to glean whatever one wants to supplement the current wisdom or Zeitgeist which is inevitably an imposition of outside assumptions on the text itself.
Whereas for you the interpretation is just whatever the church you are going to tells you to believe it says.

quote:
Regarding insinuating. It is the reader who does this. The insinuation is not from the side of the author. Thus, it is the reader's assumption.
No. Again, you should look words up you don't know. Insinuation is BY DEFINITION from the side of the author. Is English your first language? Why are you so egotistical that you insist words mean what you want them to, rather then look them up and find out what they really mean? Who died and made you Noah Webster?

quote:
If I am pathetic, then it is news to me but I am sad you think so.
I wish it were news to you. But you just dismiss it out of hand rather than look at your behaviour and figure out what is giving off that impression.

quote:
The 'who made you the judge' line wears a bit thin as well. One is suddenly the judge when pointing out what scripture says?
The way you do? Yes.

quote:
However, in the end, I have no regard for your opinion
Clearly you have regard only for yourself. It's pathetic (look it up).

quote:
or that of the demonstrably unchristlike folk such as Mousethief
He's done it again. Will the hypocrisy never cease? No, probably not.

quote:
who called me here so he could show his true self
No, that is not why I called you here. Don't presume to tell me why I do what I do. You are 100% wrong 100% of the time.

quote:
I do not assume anything.
You are a liar. Just in this post you assumed you knew what several words meant (and you were wrong) and you assumed you knew why I called you here (and you were wrong).

--------------------
God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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Nick Tamen

Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164

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quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
First, it is not 'disingenuous' which I take to mean naïve, to refer to the Bible as clearly teaching something.

First, disingenuous does not mean naïve. It means lacking in frankness, or falsely sincere. In other words, dishonest.

Second, who has said the Bible doesn't clearly teach things? The problem is not that the rest of us don't believe the Bible clearly teaches things: it's that many of us disagree that it clearly teaches what you think it does with regard to some specific things.

This is one of the reasons many of us have become so frustrated with your method of discussion—rather than actually addressing what others say, you repeatedly create straw men that people, merely by disagreeing with your view of things, have tossed Scripture out entirely.

quote:
Regarding insinuating. It is the reader who does this. The insinuation is not from the side of the author. Thus, it is the reader's assumption.
Nope. Insinuation is done by the speaker/author. It means to hint at. (Perhaps you're confusing insinuate with infer.) And you have repeatedly insinuated that those who disagree with your narrow view of PSA are not saved.

quote:
You and others might well be saved, (shrug), I do not have to worry about you, only about me in that regard, but I am not taking a backward step from telling you what I think scripture teaches regarding salvation when so many voices want to fudge it.
No one has asked you to step back from what you believe. They have asked you not to suggest that anyone who believes differently is not a real Christian.

You have exhorted me and others to open our minds and consider whether the Lord might be trying to say something different to us. Your seemingly proud refusal to take your own advice is reminiscent of specks and planks, and only reinforces the perception that you stand in judgment of others. It wears very thin.

--------------------
The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

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Jamat
Shipmate
# 11621

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quote:
Nick Tamen: Nope. Insinuation is done by the speaker/author. It means to hint at. (Perhaps you're confusing insinuate with infer.) And you have repeatedly insinuated that those who disagree with your narrow view of PSA are not saved.
Your are correct of course, I should have checked.
My point then, is that what one chooses to infer from what I wrote about the atonement, is not necessarily what I implied or insinuated... not my personal judgement in other words. Thank you for that.

As for the rest of your post Nick, feel free to join the feeding frenzy but it does not reflect well on one to be part of a pack of snapping dogs. May you be blessed.

Posts: 2953 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
Nick Tamen

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# 15164

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quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
quote:
Nick Tamen: Nope. Insinuation is done by the speaker/author. It means to hint at. (Perhaps you're confusing insinuate with infer.) And you have repeatedly insinuated that those who disagree with your narrow view of PSA are not saved.
Your are correct of course, I should have checked.
My point then, is that what one chooses to infer from what I wrote about the atonement, is not necessarily what I implied or insinuated... not my personal judgement in other words. Thank you for that.

The thing is, Jamat, if everyone is inferring the same unintended message from what I say, I tend to ask myself whether the fault is mine for not communicating clearly. By saying that we have all "chosen" to infer what you did not imply or insinuate—which should perhaps more accurately be what you did not intend to imply or insinuate—you have abdicated responsibility for your own words and laid the blame on those who took your words at face value. That doesn't reflect well on one either.

--------------------
The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

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Jamat
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# 11621

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quote:
Mousethief:You are a liar. Just in this post you assumed you knew what several words meant (and you were wrong) and you assumed you knew why I called you here (and you were wrong).
I did make a mistake in defining the word insinuate. so, yes, I apologise.
As to the rest of your post, I think it is clutching at straws. You called me here under a pretext of being insulted. You maintain the charade. It is just more lies. You merely wish to vent your unpleasant spleen which you continue to do. That is rather sad. One who feeds off the kind of bitterness you seem to must, at heart, be a very miserable man.

--------------------
Jamat ..in utmost longditude, where Heaven
with Earth and ocean meets, the setting sun slowly descended, and with right aspect
Against the eastern gate of Paradise. (Milton Paradise Lost Bk iv)

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Palimpsest
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# 16772

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quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
I did make a mistake in defining the word insinuate. so, yes, I apologise.
As to the rest of your post, I think it is clutching at straws. You called me here under a pretext of being insulted. You maintain the charade. It is just more lies. You merely wish to vent your unpleasant spleen which you continue to do. That is rather sad. One who feeds off the kind of bitterness you seem to must, at heart, be a very miserable man.

After all, it's impossible to actually be insulted by Jamat. The people on this thread are just pretending so they can vent their nastiness. And of course, Jamat can tell you what is in other people's heart because he's so so special. I think it's his own inner doubt about the belief he professes that makes him so vehement in attacking others because he thinks they are like him at the hollow core. Any one watching his panic about Genesis not being literal can see that.
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Gamaliel
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# 812

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Jamat, even in Hell I did not say 'you' were pathetic, I said 'it' was pathetic referring to your behaviour.

You seem unable to make that distinction and interpret any 'opposition', however mild, as some kind of personal attack or else some nefarious attempt to undermine the Gospel.

Nick Tamen argues in a very measured and reasoned way and yet you accuse him of joining a 'feeding frenzy'.

I see no 'feeding frenzy' here - and there have certainly​ been such things in Hell and they aren't pretty - but plenty of frustration at what you seem unwilling to acknowledge - that your interpretive framework is exactly that - an interpretive framework - and that you don't have any special rights or privilege to sit in judgement over the spiritual state of anyone else.

It's been counter-productive of Mousethief to use what the BBC calls 'strong language' as all it's done is feed your own ego and spiritual pride. 'I'm glad I'm not like that unChristlike Mousethief, swearing at people ...'

You've accused me of amateur psychologising in the past. Now you are doing exactly the same thing by speculating how 'miserable' Mousethief must be and presuming to understand what flaws he must have in order to have the temerity to challenge you in your unassailably biblical and principled position ...

You make assumptions over and over again. You've even assumed what words mean without bothering to look them up.

In a similar way you make assumptions about the position / spiritual state of fellow Shipmates without bothering to find out what they believe and why.

You cling to a comfort-blanket of highly conservative fundagelicalism and dismiss any hint of nuance or variation as evidence of a dangerous slippery slope towards liberalism and perdition.

You have gone beyond the legitimate use of an interpretive framework and transformed it into a strait-jacket.

That is what is sad. That is what is 'pathetic'.

--------------------
Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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Jamat
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# 11621

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quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
I did make a mistake in defining the word insinuate. so, yes, I apologise.
As to the rest of your post, I think it is clutching at straws. You called me here under a pretext of being insulted. You maintain the charade. It is just more lies. You merely wish to vent your unpleasant spleen which you continue to do. That is rather sad. One who feeds off the kind of bitterness you seem to must, at heart, be a very miserable man.

After all, it's impossible to actually be insulted by Jamat. The people on this thread are just pretending so they can vent their nastiness. And of course, Jamat can tell you what is in other people's heart because he's so so special. I think it's his own inner doubt about the belief he professes that makes him so vehement in attacking others because he thinks they are like him at the hollow core. Any one watching his panic about Genesis not being literal can see that.
It is not a matter of seeing hearts, merely one of interpreting behaviour in a common sense manner, given Mousethief's track record of career internet bullying.
And you, mate, are obviously a fool.

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Jamat
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# 11621

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quote:
Gamaliel: It's been counter-productive of Mousethief to use what the BBC calls 'strong language' as all it's done is feed your own ego and spiritual pride. 'I'm glad I'm not like that unChristlike Mousethief, swearing at people ...Gamaliel
Well, now, that is pretty judgemental. I am not the judge of my own pride so how could you be? And on what basis do you claim to know my motives? I have only pity for anyone as bitter and vindictive as someone who needs to lash out on such a flimsy pretext. I also beg to differ on the feeding frenzy. It does not bother me at all but there is no personal judgement at all on my part and pretty well a constant stream of pretended outrage not at my views but at me personally, from a number of folk.

--------------------
Jamat ..in utmost longditude, where Heaven
with Earth and ocean meets, the setting sun slowly descended, and with right aspect
Against the eastern gate of Paradise. (Milton Paradise Lost Bk iv)

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Gamaliel
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# 812

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Your lack of self-awareness is monumental.

I'd admire it as I would a large rock sculpture if the unintended irony weren't so deafening.

You really, really, really don't get it do you?

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

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Gamaliel
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# 812

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Your ability to assess how badly you come across online is exceeded only by your inability to look words up in the dictionary and cope with anything beyond the most basic, formulaic and binary level of assessment.

If I didn't know differently, I'd assume you had a day job as a pit-prop or a railway girder.

--------------------
Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:


Yes, It is rather pharisaical behaviour witnessed here. As I recall, they ganged up to confront Jesus on many occasions. The object inevitably was to justify what their little 'collective' taught and believed.


The aspect of pharisaical behaviour I referred to was their self-righteousness and belief in superior sanctity, not the paranoia you demonstrate. Don't for a moment compare the opposition you get here to the sufferings of our Lord.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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"He's not the Messiah..."

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Improbable Botany

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Nick Tamen

Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164

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quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
And on what basis do you claim to know my motives?

On what basis do you claim to know mousethief's motives? Or that anyone's outrage is "pretended"?

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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

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Gamaliel
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# 812

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Well exactly.

I got stick - justifiably probably - from Jamat for presuming to analyse aspects of his conversion from adolescent Roman Catholicism to conservative evangelicalism and now he's doing the self-same thing by presuming to be able to 'read' people's motives.

The double-standard is spectacular.

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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RooK

1 of 6
# 1852

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It can sometimes be hard for people to recognize the meta-content of their own modality - it is a common human failing. However, in Jamat's case, there is clearly some profound inability process any reflected reality that challenges Jamat's prejudices.

So, while this thread is unlikely to affect any change, at least it vents some frustration. Which, I suspect, was this threads only original intent. No matter how patiently some participants have tried to make it more worthy.

Also: sky blue; sea wet.

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mousethief

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# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
quote:
... you assumed you knew why I called you here (and you were wrong).
As to the rest of your post, I think it is clutching at straws. You called me here under a pretext of being insulted.
You are still wrong. How on earth do you think you know what is inside my mind? So much so that you can tell me to my face I am lying when I report on my inner states? What thought-o-meter do you think you possess, you whitewashed tomb, that you dare to presume to know what I'm thinking or feeling?

And of course your report is internally self-contradictory. Am I venting my spleen, or only pretending to be angry? You can't have both.

quote:
One who feeds off the kind of bitterness you seem to must, at heart, be a very miserable man.
Ask anybody who knows me IRL if I am a miserable man. I who for 8 years ran an award-winning humor website. Who am first to make a joke at any pretext. (Indeed I was nearly banned from the Ship for the frequency and nature of my joking.) No, you judgmental fool, I am not a miserable man.

No, you had best stick to mis-interpreting the Bible rather than trying to interpret men's souls. Because you suck at it.

quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Your lack of self-awareness is monumental.

You misspelled "choking."

quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
So, while this thread is unlikely to affect any change, at least it vents some frustration. Which, I suspect, was this threads only original intent.

Correct.

quote:
Also: sky blue; sea wet.
I live near Seattle. Only the second one seems to be true this year.

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
It can sometimes be hard for people to recognize the meta-content of their own modality - it is a common human failing. However, in Jamat's case, there is clearly some profound inability process any reflected reality that challenges Jamat's prejudices.

Yes. There is many a shipmate whose stubborn close-minded posting prods me to hellish frustration (and vice versa as well, I'm sure). But with Jamat it's not frustration I feel so much as sorrow. He seems to have already heeded a hell-call of his own making-- trapped in a very rigid prison at the "hands of an angry god". I wish for him freedom and grace, even as I despair of seeing a way forward toward that.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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leo
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# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
Yes, It is rather pharisaical behaviour witnessed here. As I recall, they ganged up to confront Jesus on many occasions. The object inevitably was to justify what their little 'collective' taught and believed.

They did not 'gang up'- they enjoyed discussing with Jesus as with one of their number.

They did not have a collective belief - everything was disputable and they always recoded all opinions.

--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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leo--

Hmmm...I wonder if any of them had been around when Jesus was 12 and debated with them? Could've made for interesting dynamics. "Young upstart... (or) Seems to have matured well... (or) He's BA-AAACK!"

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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leo
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# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
leo--

Hmmm...I wonder if any of them had been around when Jesus was 12 and debated with them? Could've made for interesting dynamics. "Young upstart... (or) Seems to have matured well... (or) He's BA-AAACK!"

point is they were friends, not enemies

[ 21. June 2017, 15:06: Message edited by: leo ]

--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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mousethief

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# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
leo--

Hmmm...I wonder if any of them had been around when Jesus was 12 and debated with them? Could've made for interesting dynamics. "Young upstart... (or) Seems to have matured well... (or) He's BA-AAACK!"

point is they were friends, not enemies
Before or after he called them hypocrites and whitewashed tombs full of dead men's bones?

--------------------
God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
leo--

Hmmm...I wonder if any of them had been around when Jesus was 12 and debated with them? Could've made for interesting dynamics. "Young upstart... (or) Seems to have matured well... (or) He's BA-AAACK!"

point is they were friends, not enemies
Before or after he called them hypocrites and whitewashed tombs full of dead men's bones?
What I had heard was that it was part of the way Pharisees debated. Insults given to the losers with no animosity. A sport or Bro kinda thing.
This was from an RCC priest.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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mousethief

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# 953

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I'd want to see some kind of contemporary verification of that.

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I'd want to see some kind of contemporary verification of that.

I think that would have to come from a scholar of Judaism, I am just repeating what I heard.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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{Tangent--Pharisees}

I did some searching on "pharisees debating style". One interesting hit is "Talk:Jesus/Scribes Pharisees and Saducees" (Wikipedia). The page cites various scholars. I only skimmed it, but it seems to support leo's statement.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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I've started a "Pharisees: Friends of Jesus?" thread in Keryg. Figured the H/As would eventually shut the tangent down, or move it to a Keryg thread. I've copied the relevant posts over.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Sorry. That should be "Friends with", not "of".

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
I've started a "Pharisees: Friends of Jesus?" thread in Keryg. Figured the H/As would eventually shut the tangent down, or move it to a Keryg thread. I've copied the relevant posts over.

Good call. +1 Ship points, redeemable on insults and Mousethief Coolers.

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Improbable Botany

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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{Curtsey.}

Thankee.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17447 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gamaliel
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# 812

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In which case, Jesus would be a friend of Jamat's ...

I'm sure he is ...

I'll get me coat ...

--------------------
Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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leo
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# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
leo--

Hmmm...I wonder if any of them had been around when Jesus was 12 and debated with them? Could've made for interesting dynamics. "Young upstart... (or) Seems to have matured well... (or) He's BA-AAACK!"

point is they were friends, not enemies
Before or after he called them hypocrites and whitewashed tombs full of dead men's bones?
typical hyperbole used between pharisees of the time.

--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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He's back, with fresh new judgmentalism in defiance of his much-repeated claim that he never makes judgments on other people's eternal destinations. Italics mine.

quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
Aijalon: You need to stop chucking the pearls in front of swine. Almost no one here takes the Bible as God's word. Professing to be wise, they are fools whose hearts are hardened and their understanding is consequently darkened. (Romans 1:21) Most are apostates who should know better but are now on the broad road although there are a few genuinely unenlightened individuals. Lil Buddah's ignorance of spiritual issues is only exceeded by her arrogant assertions about them. She should be in our prayers.



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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Wow.

Jamat, do you know how snooty that post mt quoted sounds?
[Eek!]


mt--Link or thread name, please? Th.

[ 04. July 2017, 04:55: Message edited by: Golden Key ]

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17447 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

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# 953

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Always glad to oblige.

--------------------
God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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