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Source: (consider it) Thread: I don't want to go to your wedding
la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688

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Here’s the thing. I don’t think you actually want to be married. I think you want to play the princess for a day in a (knowing you, very ugly) big poofy dress and big floaty veil and twinkly tiara, and have your family all fawn over you and get to be the centre of attention. Also you don’t like your job and you want a meal ticket. And word is (I share a pillow with your fiancé’s witness) that the groom doesn’t really want to get married either. He’s just turning up to make you happy and because he’s a coward who figures that marrying you is the easy way out (hint: it isn’t). It’s all going to end in tears. Have you noticed that he’s not actually interested in putting you before his children? I have. On the subject of his children, the Girl AKA Walking Adolescent Angst is going to spend all day next Saturday wearing a pretty dress and scowling like Medusa. She’s going to ruin your photos. The Boy will be as clingy and annoying as he usually is.

I thought you’d put this shindig together too fast to be a proper Bridezilla, but that thing where you advised us a mere week before the big do that we were all supposed to wear a special colour? Not going to happen. I’ve already bought an outfit, by way of a silver lining for having to turn up (an excuse for new clothes!), I don’t have time to go shopping again, and I’ll be damned if I’m paying for anything else. Anyway, we’ll probably all have to wrap in horse blankets because you’re getting married in Normandy in September and it’s going to be bloody freezing. Also it would be a good idea if you and the groom could agree on what time your wedding’s happening exactly. The groom’s witness has been given two conflicting pieces of information and if he’s not there you can’t get married (which might not be such a bad thing in the long run, but I assume you’ll be upset).

Your hen party could have been worse. At least your witness is quite classy. Didn’t know that she and you were that close, but I suppose you chose from a limited field, taken how you’ve been alienating all your friends lately. (Like K, for example. By the by, did you know K’s getting married as well? The difference is that she actually looks radiant and happy and in love. See? I don’t have a problem with all weddings. It’s just yours I don’t want to go to.) And yes I bought you a present, because I have good manners and having agreed to go, I play the game. Although most of your friends didn’t bother, so I could have saved my money. Maybe they don’t really like you either. But you note that I didn’t buy you a sexy present or lacy undies? That’s because I know perfectly well that you’ve already slept together and your smalls hold no secrets for your betrothed. I actually don’t give a monkey’s about that – your problem – but I would really, really appreciate it if you stopped playing the Good Little Evangelical and pretending to be a blushing virgin. Hypocrite.

I’m deeply bummed that the world didn’t end last Saturday. I could have got out of going. You’d better be serving a very nice dinner.

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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Wow! Saucer of milk for table three please!

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Perhaps a nice, temporary, infectious (but not fatal) malady could be acquired (or reported to be acquired [Biased] )?

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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la vie en rouge--

"Don't mince words, Bones! Tell me what you *really* think!"--J.T. Kirk.
[Biased]

Sounds awful. I'm guessing skipping the whole thing isn't an option. Wishing the couple whatever's best about going ahead or cancelling.

And may you find a way to cope.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Dark Knight

Super Zero
# 9415

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Yeesh.
I'm going to wait for the film adaptation.

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Wronger than a drooling idiot on stupid juice - but I understand his argument.
mousethief (paraphrase)
----
Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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So don't fucking go. [Roll Eyes]

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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Nothing to be done. People have to be stupid. (God knows we can see this in American politics.)

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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I'm reminded of Mr. Punch's advice to persons about to embark upon matrimony:

'Don't.'

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Erroneous Monk
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# 10858

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quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Have you noticed that he’s not actually interested in putting you before his children?

I should hope he isn't. Children are for life.

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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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"I'm terribly sorry, but I promised myself I'd straighten out my sock drawer that day. So I won't be able to attend."

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"Stop your noisy songs; I do not want to listen to your praise bands." -- Amos 5:23, Good News Bible (modified)

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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688

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quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Have you noticed that he’s not actually interested in putting you before his children?

I should hope he isn't. Children are for life.
Whether (second) spouses or children come first is certainly a topic which one could discuss and opinions will vary. My only point is that Bride is deceiving herself about her relationship. She wants to come first and she’s not going to.

Why are we going? Essentially because Groom is (or rather was – he’s become a whole lot less fun since being coupled up [Roll Eyes] ) one of my husband’s best friends and we don’t want to burn our bridges with him entirely. Which we would if we told him we weren’t going to his wedding.

(BTW, I didn’t bring it up earlier, but can I just mention how pleased I am that my spellchecker recognises the word “bridezilla”?)

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Have you noticed that he’s not actually interested in putting you before his children?

I should hope he isn't. Children are for life.
Whether (second) spouses or children come first is certainly a topic which one could discuss and opinions will vary.
Not for long.

Prior to my 2nd marriage my (never married) husband-to-be was briefly concerned that (when asked) I made clear that daughter would always come first. He consulted with two married friends: "is it normal for your wife to put your kids first?". One, a new father with a brand-new baby, pondered the question for a brief moment. The other-- having been a father for several years with a couple of toddlers-- laughed at them both, mocking the new father for not realizing that "you were #2 before the epidural wore off".

The subject never came up again. We've been married for 28 years now and have a newly empty nest. I adore my better half but kids are still first. Well, except they've now been supplanted by granddaughter...

It's the way of life. Get used to it.

[ 25. September 2017, 15:03: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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leo
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# 1458

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I hate weddings - patriarrchy - so don 't go to any.

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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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Stetson
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# 9597

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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I hate weddings - patriarrchy - so don 't go to any.

I also hate weddings. Always held in the scorching summer heat. I am actually impressed to hear that the one discussed in the OP is being done in a chilly locale.

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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!

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Ricardus
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# 8757

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quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Also it would be a good idea if you and the groom could agree on what time your wedding’s happening exactly. The groom’s witness has been given two conflicting pieces of information and if he’s not there you can’t get married (which might not be such a bad thing in the long run, but I assume you’ll be upset).

I am aware of at least one wedding in it was somehow arranged that the bride believed the starting time was half an hour earlier than everyone else, in the hope that this way there was at least a chance the ceremony would start on time ...

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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)

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Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

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Dear xxxx

Sorry I can't make it to your sham of a wedding. I will book some time in three months for the divorce party.

I hope you found someone who can make a dress that makes you look good. That would be an achievement - have you considered these people or similar? And I gather your make up providers are very high class.

Anyhow, do let me know if you need anything. So I can do my manic laughing, you fucking loser.

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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I hate weddings - patriarrchy - so don 't go to any.

I'm sure that comes/came as a massive relief to any of your friends or family who are/were planning their wedding.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Nenya
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# 16427

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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
Prior to my 2nd marriage my (never married) husband-to-be was briefly concerned that (when asked) I made clear that daughter would always come first. He consulted with two married friends: "is it normal for your wife to put your kids first?". One, a new father with a brand-new baby, pondered the question for a brief moment. The other-- having been a father for several years with a couple of toddlers-- laughed at them both, mocking the new father for not realizing that "you were #2 before the epidural wore off".

[Overused]

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They told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn.

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Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I hate weddings - patriarrchy - so don 't go to any.

Hahahahaha

Yes, the man and woman decide to get married, he gives her a $5000 ring, she gives him a big kiss. She decides they're going to have a huge wedding with a rented hall, a catered dinner, a band and a $8000 dress; and her father is going to pay for it. She and her mother plan every last detail and make every decision with any ideas from the groom quickly laughed to the ground.

The big day comes and somewhere in between her grand entrance and the embarrassing vows she's written for the two of them, the pastor might be permitted to say the line, "Who gives this woman in marriage?" to the father. It's about as literal in meaning as her white dress. That's the sum total of your awful patriarchy.

[ 25. September 2017, 21:45: Message edited by: Twilight ]

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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Oh Twilight, you're trying to teach a pig to sing. Might as well give up now.

quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Why are we going? Essentially because Groom is (or rather was – he’s become a whole lot less fun since being coupled up [Roll Eyes] ) one of my husband’s best friends and we don’t want to burn our bridges with him entirely. Which we would if we told him we weren’t going to his wedding.

Told him? Pshaw. Tell him you're going and then have a breakdown (of the automotive variety) motoring through the bleak and empty countryside to get to Normandy.

quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I know perfectly well that you’ve already slept together and your smalls hold no secrets for your betrothed.

What are "smalls"?

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I hate weddings - patriarrchy - so don 't go to any.

I'm sure that comes/came as a massive relief to any of your friends or family who are/were planning their wedding.
[Killing me] [Overused]

Next Leo will be telling us that PIV sex is always a product of Patriarchy, and is always de facto rape. I've heard that before from ultrafeminists. It must be true.

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
What are "smalls"?

Underwear.

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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Isn't this why people get drunk at weddings and then go shout rude things in each other's faces?

I once went to a Macedonian/Greek wedding. It was huge, there must have been 200 people there. They had two bands, one played Macedonian music and the other Greek music. There was a full bottle of Johnny Walker Red on each table at the start of the night. My wife and I left at the first available opportunity (our signature style), and in my imagination there was a massive fight just after the whiskey ran out. The couple, about 10 years later, are happily married with two kids. Who says mixed marriages can't work.

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Human

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Stercus Tauri
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# 16668

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Mixed marriages do work, though my father was uneasy about me marrying an American, almost 45 years ago. It worked, though.

The story is a familiar one. I've been to some happy funerals and some gruesome weddings of the kind predicted here. Funerals hardly ever turn out badly months or years after the event.

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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)

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Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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Ensure your outfit includes a nice warm shrug (and possibly woolly socks).

Other than that, there's always remarking audibly from the back of the church: 'I've had them both, and they were both lousy'.

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Ethne Alba
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# 5804

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That's a lot of hours spent doing something you don't want to....
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Jane R
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# 331

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Welcome to the wonderful world of adulting.

la vie en rouge, I can perfectly understand both why you don't want to go to this wedding and why you feel like you have to, but is it wise to vent your feelings about it in a public forum?

[ 26. September 2017, 09:56: Message edited by: Jane R ]

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Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I hate weddings - patriarrchy - so don 't go to any.

I suppose more women than not feel that Forward in Faith and similar outfits have to more to do with patriarchy than weddings have. Do you refuse to attend conservative Anglo-Catholic Mass?

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
There was a full bottle of Johnny Walker Red on each table at the start of the night.

I can't get over this. To someone like my husband who can't resist anything free, such a set-up could prove deadly.
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Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:

la vie en rouge, I can perfectly understand both why you don't want to go to this wedding and why you feel like you have to, but is it wise to vent your feelings about it in a public forum?

I doubt the bridezilla is spending her time scanning obscure english-language relgious bulletin boards.
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967

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quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Have you noticed that he’s not actually interested in putting you before his children? [...]

I would really, really appreciate it if you stopped playing the Good Little Evangelical and pretending to be a blushing virgin. Hypocrite.

Shouldn't the kids come first, if he already has some?

And if the couple end up divorced they won't be 'Good Little Evangelicals' any more, so it's all good, isn't it?

But I can understand not wanting to go to someone else's wedding. I avoided one myself, recently. Mostly by being on another continent.

[ 26. September 2017, 11:23: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]

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Helen-Eva
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# 15025

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I'm quite good at developing migraines after the service and before the party. That way one goes to the wedding but avoids most of the unpleasantness (leaving more time to tidy one's sock drawer).

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I thought the radio 3 announcer said "Weber" but it turned out to be Webern. Story of my life.

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Stetson
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# 9597

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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I hate weddings - patriarrchy - so don 't go to any.

Hahahahaha

Yes, the man and woman decide to get married, he gives her a $5000 ring, she gives him a big kiss. She decides they're going to have a huge wedding with a rented hall, a catered dinner, a band and a $8000 dress; and her father is going to pay for it. She and her mother plan every last detail and make every decision with any ideas from the groom quickly laughed to the ground.

The big day comes and somewhere in between her grand entrance and the embarrassing vows she's written for the two of them, the pastor might be permitted to say the line, "Who gives this woman in marriage?" to the father. It's about as literal in meaning as her white dress. That's the sum total of your awful patriarchy.

"and her father is going to pay for it"

Actually, isn't that bit about her father paying for it pretty rooted in patriarchy, ie. he's paying the other father to take a female child off of his hands, female offspring being generally viewed as a burden on the family finances and resources. That's always been how I've understood the tradition.

Now yes, if you mean "the bride's father as opposed to the bride's mother", then the man is getting the worst of it(since he's the one spending the cash, but has little say in how it's used). But insofar as a particular wedding follows the practice of the bride's family(as opposed to the groom's family) having to make the financial sacrifice, I'd say it's a pretty deep bow to the traditional devaluation of females.

[ 26. September 2017, 12:28: Message edited by: Stetson ]

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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!

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Jane R
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# 331

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Nowadays the 'happy' couple quite often foot the bill themselves. And the tradition of the bride's family paying for the wedding reception (in the UK, the groom is supposed to pay any costs associated with the wedding ceremony; licence/banns, minister's fee etc.) is not universal.
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BroJames
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# 9636

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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I hate weddings - patriarrchy - so don 't go to any.

I think most of the weddings I'm involved in these days the couples are paying their own way - often, but not always with help from parents on either side. Equal vows, equal words at the exchange of rings. The bride is usually (but not always) accompanied up the aisle by her father, but it is her choice (made in private before the rehearsal) whether I ask "Who brings* this woman to be married to this man?". No words are provided at that point for the bringer** to say.
[* not the BCP's "giveth" - although **the giver - even in the BCP - in the BCP could be "a friend" - no gender specified. Father still seems to be the default option, but I've seen mothers, sons and daughters as well as male father-alternatives, as well as couples coming in together arm in arm.]

It can be argued that mutual promises of lifelong commitment are inherently patriarchal. They seem, however, to be popular not only between mixed sex couples, but also for same sex couples - so I suspect that there is more to it than a mere hangover from patriarchy.

Of course there are other more patriarchal cultural accretions to weddings which I'm not very fond of - but they are not of the essence of the marriage, and very rarely an accurate reflection of the couple's self understanding and are just done because "that's how weddings are" with little or no thought to their semiotics.

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Stetson
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# 9597

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quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Nowadays the 'happy' couple quite often foot the bill themselves. And the tradition of the bride's family paying for the wedding reception (in the UK, the groom is supposed to pay any costs associated with the wedding ceremony; licence/banns, minister's fee etc.) is not universal.

Yeah, I know, but Twilight's example included the bride's father paying for it, as an example of a non-patriarchal practice.
Posts: 6446 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leaf
Shipmate
# 14169

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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I hate weddings - patriarrchy - so don 't go to any.

The rest of you are reading leo wrong. He is protesting the sexism inherent in pirate weddings.

I have not yet subscribed to the theory that Shipmate #1458 is actually a collective of bored art students, but goddamn do his typos cheer me up.

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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The art students would have said something interesting by now.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331

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Posting a lot without saying anything interesting is an art form in itself. Many aspire, but few achieve it.
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I hate weddings - patriarrchy - so don 't go to any.

I suppose more women than not feel that Forward in Faith and similar outfits have to more to do with patriarchy than weddings have. Do you refuse to attend conservative Anglo-Catholic Mass?
Went to one last week but don't often - an exception because a friend of mine was being inducted to his new parish - indeed, I left my previous church when it joined F in F.

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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

Posts: 23075 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
leo
Shipmate
# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Next Leo will be telling us that PIV sex is always a product of Patriarchy, and is always de facto rape. I've heard that before from ultrafeminists. It must be true.

No - but if you listen to what Jesus says about 'family'....

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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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Leorning Cniht
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# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Went to one last week but don't often - an exception because a friend of mine was being inducted to his new parish - indeed, I left my previous church when it joined F in F.

So you don't go to your friends' weddings, because patriarchy, but will go to your friend's induction into a F in F parish, because somehow less patriarchy?

You are, of course, free to attend or not as you choose, but this seems a bit inconsistent. Unless it's just that the friend who was inducted into the F in F parish is closer to you than the people who invite you to weddings, and you'll make an exception to either your wedding or your F in F rule for close friends only.

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Ensure your outfit includes a nice warm shrug

Let's hope it's a Gallic shrug.

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Forward the New Republic

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Ricardus
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# 8757

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I wonder how many members of the clergy have been tempted to start a thread like this after leading the marriage preparation course ...

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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)

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Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I hate weddings - patriarrchy - so don 't go to any.

The rest of you are reading leo wrong. He is protesting the sexism inherent in pirate weddings.


[Killing me]
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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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Leo, it's clear you just don't like weddings, and use Patriarchy to pin your dislike upon, so you can pretend your avoidance of them is for moral reasons.

quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
Now yes, if you mean "the bride's father as opposed to the bride's mother", then the man is getting the worst of it(since he's the one spending the cash, but has little say in how it's used). But insofar as a particular wedding follows the practice of the bride's family(as opposed to the groom's family) having to make the financial sacrifice, I'd say it's a pretty deep bow to the traditional devaluation of females.

And in a culture where the husband pays a "bride price" to the father of the bride, that's patriarchy too. So, bride's family pays groom's family, patriarchy. Groom's family pays bride's family, patriarchy. When do they get to cancel out?

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
And in a culture where the husband pays a "bride price" to the father of the bride, that's patriarchy too. So, bride's family pays groom's family, patriarchy. Groom's family pays bride's family, patriarchy. When do they get to cancel out?

I'm really confused about where you're going with this, and perhaps that means I'm too tired, but just in case: Yes, both of those are patriarchal. In both cases, the power is (at least on paper) vested in the menfolk of the two families. It doesn't matter whether I buy your daughter or you pay me to take her off your hands - both are patriarchal.
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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
There was a full bottle of Johnny Walker Red on each table at the start of the night. My wife and I left at the first available opportunity (our signature style) ...

There was a bottle of Johnny Walker Red on each table and you guys bailed?!? [Disappointed]
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
There was a full bottle of Johnny Walker Red on each table at the start of the night. My wife and I left at the first available opportunity (our signature style) ...

There was a bottle of Johnny Walker Red on each table and you guys bailed?!? [Disappointed]
Maybe the simontoads preferred a single malt? At any rate, that would have kept me there for a while.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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anoesis
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# 14189

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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I hate weddings - patriarrchy - so don 't go to any.

Hahahahaha

Yes, the man and woman decide to get married, he gives her a $5000 ring, she gives him a big kiss. She decides they're going to have a huge wedding with a rented hall, a catered dinner, a band and a $8000 dress; and her father is going to pay for it. She and her mother plan every last detail and make every decision with any ideas from the groom quickly laughed to the ground.

The big day comes and somewhere in between her grand entrance and the embarrassing vows she's written for the two of them, the pastor might be permitted to say the line, "Who gives this woman in marriage?" to the father. It's about as literal in meaning as her white dress. That's the sum total of your awful patriarchy.

You two are so right together...! It would make a great movie, you know, the ones where they seethe with hatred for each other, right up until the point they realise they're in love...

Seriously, though: While I'm plenty prepared to believe that weddings can perpetrate patriarchy, and may, sometimes, approximate Twilight's caricature, I have not, in my whole life, attended a wedding that is anything like what she describes. It's obviously a fairly traumatic and scarring experience. If it helps at all to restore your faith in humanity, Twilight, I had an $800* ring, a $600 dress, no band, 100 people to a buffet dinner, made all decisions (apart from dress) in concert with fiancee, with $1000 dollars provided by each set of parents and the rest coming from our own pockets. We were graduate students at the time, so the pockets weren't very deep. (I know, anecdata...)

I wore a white dress, which I had a 'literal' right to do, according to your styling. Though I'd have worn blue if I felt like it - or purple, or whatever. The whole virginity thing isn't important to me now, but it was at the time. And you'd better freaking believe no-one asked my father if he was giving me away! I had lived 600 miles away from 'home' for five years by that point - I was well and truly off his hands. Nor did anyone ceremonially unveil me, seeing as I'm not a painting, or a slab of granite, or a piece of merchandise (yeah, I see the patriarchy in that bit).

*That's NZD we're talking about - edging ever closer to parity with yours but at about 50 USC at the time I married.

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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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My DIL had a £30 dress off eBay - she looked amazing, as did her bridesmaids with dresses of the same price.

Here she is.

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Garden. Room. Walk

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