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Source: (consider it) Thread: I don't want to go to your wedding
Nick Tamen

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# 15164

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
A good sponge should have its own flavour. It is a thing in its own right.

Your 'white cake' is a vehicle in the same way a rice cake is: a pointless carrier of more interesting comestibles. You may as well ice polystyrene blocks for all that it matters.

Having had both rice cakes (horrid things) and white cake—something I assume you cannot claim since you appeared to think that by “white cake” I meant a cake that is iced with white icing—I feel no hesitancy in saying that I not only disagree with your opinion, but that you are simply wrong.

But don't worry—however worked up you want to get about it, I’m certainly not going to force you to eat any white cake against your will. More for the rest of us.

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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

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Doc Tor
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:

Also, 'sweet' is not a flavour.

Sweet is a characteristic and fits the way most appear to be using it.
And eggs are not honest to any god. They are a compromise between good and evil. Good in what they do for baking, evil when eaten for themselves.
There is a reason they smell of sulpher.

Tomorrow, I'm going to make egg and chips. And I'm going to enjoy every last, gooey, joyous mouthful.

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Forward the New Republic

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Doc Tor
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quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
Having had both rice cakes (horrid things) and white cake—something I assume you cannot claim since you appeared to think that by “white cake” I meant a cake that is iced with white icing—I feel no hesitancy in saying that I not only disagree with your opinion, but that you are simply wrong.

Ah, one of those idiots who insists I have to have tried something to know whether or not I would like it.

Over this side of the Atlantic a vehicle is something you drive, not something you eat. You may keep you faux food to yourself.

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Forward the New Republic

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:

Also, 'sweet' is not a flavour.

Sweet is a characteristic and fits the way most appear to be using it.
And eggs are not honest to any god. They are a compromise between good and evil. Good in what they do for baking, evil when eaten for themselves.
There is a reason they smell of sulpher.

Tomorrow, I'm going to make egg and chips. And I'm going to enjoy every last, gooey, joyous mouthful.
Illustrating why you moderate here.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Nick Tamen

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Ah, one of those idiots who insists I have to have tried something to know whether or not I would like it.

Nah, not really. More like one of those people who thinks that when you’ve never tasted a particular food (and didn’t even know what it was until a few hours ago), and yet to take it on yourself to school others on what that food tastes like, you look like an idiot.

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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

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Doc Tor
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*cracks open jar of lutfisk*

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Forward the New Republic

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Boogie

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quote:
In some areas, particularly the American South, two cakes are presented at weddings. The more traditional tiered cake is the bride's cake, and a second flavor choice is called the "groom's cake". This tradition was brought over from England by early American colonists, who considered the white-iced "Bride's Cake" too light for masculinity. The groom's cake was usually a dark, liquor-soaked fruitcake, particularly in Virginia. Today groom's cakes are usually chocolate, although the groom often choose another of his favorite flavors. The groom's cake is usually decorated or shaped as something significant to him, such as a hobby item, sports team or symbol of his occupation. The movie Steel Magnolias features a red velvet groom's cake in the shape of a giant armadillo. The groom's cake is served at the reception as a second flavor choice for the guests, although in some regions it is served at the rehearsal dinner.
(Wiki)

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Nick Tamen

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Thanks, Boogie. FWIW, though, “Steel Magnolias” is the only time I’ve seen a groom’s cake at the wedding reception. In North Carolina, at least, the tradition is to have it at the rehearsal dinner the night before the wedding, as noted at the end of the article.

[ 22. October 2017, 13:25: Message edited by: Nick Tamen ]

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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

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L'organist
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I have had the misfortune to taste US white "cake" [Projectile]

The thing I remember most about that particular wedding (apart from the effort required not to spit out the offending sickly horror) is that every flat surface was laden with plates bearing slices of the "cake" uneaten.

IMO wedding cake should be fruit: but if you're having more than one tier then you can have a sponge for those who prefer. The top tier is traditionally kept (icing having been removed) in an air-tight container ready to be re-iced for the tea following the baptism of the first child.

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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Nick Tamen

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
I have had the misfortune to taste US white "cake" [Projectile]

As I think I readily acknowledged upthread, the white cake typically served at weddings is to good white cake as Taco Bell is to good Mexican cuisine. Indeed, that seems to be the case with most wedding cakes here—the emphasis on how the cake looks, coupled with things like needing to make the cake days in advance, makes for pretty bad cake. Add in fondant or bad icing, and the cake typically isn’t good, regardless of what kind it is. That’s just the sad reality here. In my experience, people here have very low expectations of how wedding cake will taste and are pleasantly surprised if it’s good. That’s regardless of what kind of cake it is.

quote:
The thing I remember most about that particular wedding (apart from the effort required not to spit out the offending sickly horror) is that every flat surface was laden with plates bearing slices of the "cake" uneaten.

IMO wedding cake should be fruit. . . .

If that were served here, you wouldn’t need to worry about plates all over the room with partially eaten cake, because hardly anyone would get a plate to start with. As has been said, Americans like me who like fruitcake are a rare bread. Most Americans detest it. Couple that with the fact the fruitcake is firmly tethered to Christmas and Christmas only, and fruitcake at a wedding here just ain’t never gonna happen.

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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

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Ariston
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There are good white cakes in the world. Like dining on a cloud, they are.

You will not find them at weddings. Or the rubber chicken circuit. Or any reception.

Clouds are ephemeral. A moment in the sun, and they fade. They are creatures of but a moment, passing in the wind.

Reception cakes? Eff it. Need that made a day in advance, preferably two, covered in a half inch of custom icing, extra piping, and the slogan they ordered.

You know what's easy to mix and pour, lasts forever unchanging, and can support the weight of all that preserving icing?

Concrete.

And, if we're talking about the straws in wedding cake—well, prestressed, reinforced concrete.

You'll never find a wedding cake worth eating at a modern Outdo the Neighbors wedding. The small, simple, and homemade—like some aunt's cloud out of the oven—just isn't going to fit in at a formal, over-the-top Do. So concrete monuments it is.

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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Boogie

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That’s why fruit cakes are needed - substantial and very tasty.

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Doc Tor
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And you can make them in advance. Sometimes a century in advance.

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Forward the New Republic

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Curiosity killed ...

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We call white cake angel cake in the UK. It doesn't keep well, so isn't a great cake to use for a wedding cake that needs decorating. It is fat free and is often served with fruit and maybe cream. It's not the easiest cake to make as it relies on whisked egg whites for its structure.

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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat

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Nick Tamen

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
That’s why fruit cakes are needed - substantial and very tasty.

I agree on the tasty part. But for whatever reason, the vast majority of Americans don’t. I don’t know why, but it is what it is.

quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
We call white cake angel cake in the UK.

Right, we call that angel food cake. But it’s not the same thing as white cake. Looking around the allrecipes.co.uk site, this (vanilla sponge) is what we would call white cake.

[ 23. October 2017, 11:32: Message edited by: Nick Tamen ]

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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

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cliffdweller
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I love how this thread has devolved into Cake Wars.

I may be all alone on this thread, but most of my fellow 'mericans are with me in steadfastly opposing the culinary horror that is fruit cake (or really anything that involves candied fruit) and a devout supporter of lovely sweet white cake with lots of sugary frosting.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Brenda Clough
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I have been through the peculiar (and utterly expensive) ordeal of marrying a daughter off, and nowadays wedding cake providers will supply you with a menu of cake flavors to choose from. The clever ones offer tasting parties, so that the bride and her bridesmaids can make an occasion of it. My daughter selected some variation of chocolate, her favorite.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Pigwidgeon

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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
I love how this thread has devolved into Cake Wars.

I may be all alone on this thread, but most of my fellow 'mericans are with me in steadfastly opposing the culinary horror that is fruit cake (or really anything that involves candied fruit) and a devout supporter of lovely sweet white cake with lots of sugary frosting.

This 'merican won't touch the hideous white cake with lots of sugary frosting.
[Projectile]

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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Jengie jon

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I think I know the problem. Somebody said "no sight of candied fruit". My brain did a double take. Well if candied peel is the problem just don't have it. Plenty of fruitcakes don't. Then I started to wonder if Americans make fruit cake with all candied fruit. The vast majority (and if you exclude candied peel, all) the fruit in the UK is dried. This is important as to get the moisture level we soak or feed, not in sugar syrup but in alcoholic beverages, fresh orange or lemon juice or tea. We would not consider this candied fruit cake on a par with something like this Christmas cake.

Jengie

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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge

Back to my blog

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Doc Tor
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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
with lots of sugary frosting.

But that is *not* cake. The whole point of cake is the actual cake, not what the cake is a 'vehicle' for.

You may as well ice an actual car for all the attention that gets paid to the cake. Or serve plates of icing. I have observed, even in my own home, the marzipan and fondant icing removed and left on the side of the plate, so better to enjoy the actual cake (which I've also lovingly crafted from raw ingredients which may include glace cherries and candied orange peel. And brandy. Quite a lot of brandy).

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Forward the New Republic

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
The whole point of cake is the actual cake, not what the cake is a 'vehicle' for.

Inaccurate. The whole cake is the whole point. And this includes the icing, for those cakes that are meant to be iced. That some remove the icing indicates either an inferior icing or a personal preference.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Leorning Cniht
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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
most of my fellow 'mericans are with me in steadfastly opposing the culinary horror that is fruit cake (or really anything that involves candied fruit)

I've had US store-bought candied peel, and it's a ghastly sickly concoction soaked in corn syrup. You don't taste the fruit at all - just the sweetness.

I took to making my own (it's not difficult - just tedious and time-consuming) in order to get something I wanted to bake with.

But on average, American and British tastes differ. Americans, in general, like things much sweeter than Brits do. I find the majority of American bread uneatable because of its sweetness (this is true of cheap packaged supermarket loaves, expensive artisan bakery creations, and everything in between). You can get away with it as toast with jam, but it's really strange in a cheese sandwich. I don't think I've ever had bread in the UK that tastes sweet.

So I'm not surprised that fruit cake doesn't satisfy the average American taste bud, nor that a people who consider marshmallows baked on top of sweet potatoes a suitable vegetable also like sweet fluff in cake form. [Devil]

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la vie en rouge
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I am also quite tickled that a thread that started off on the subject of weddings and their associated horrors has spent more than two pages on the subject of cake.

If you don't like fruitcake, I don't think you've tried a good one. Good grief, I served fruitcake to French people at my wedding, with all their legendary gastronomic snobbery, and they liked it. It was a good one. (One of the lighter recipes, because a French wedding meal is enormous. This was my original complaint about pièce montée - much too sweet for the end of a very big and heavy meal.)

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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Doc Tor
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I move we rush the ceremony bit and get onto the important part, The Testing of the Wedding Cake. That, like an augury, will determine the success or failure of the marriage.

Any couple that doesn't serve an apocalypse-proof fruit cake will be clearly doomed. (Though a three-wheel cheese might rescue the situation)

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Forward the New Republic

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Ian Climacus

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(Philistine)

I've never understood the appeal of cheese after a meal. Fruit, yes. Some sickly sweet dessert, oh god, yes [pardonne-moi, la vie en rouge]. But cheese? Clearly missing something.

(/Philistine)

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
(Philistine)

I've never understood the appeal of cheese after a meal. Fruit, yes. Some sickly sweet dessert, oh god, yes [pardonne-moi, la vie en rouge]. But cheese? Clearly missing something.

(/Philistine)

Because cheese is the single finest foodstuff in existence.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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JonahMan
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And cheese (preferably a good Wensleydale) on fruitcake combines the two to utter perfection.

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Thank God for the aged
And old age itself, and illness and the grave
For when you're old, or ill and particularly in the coffin
It's no trouble to behave

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Leorning Cniht
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
I move we rush the ceremony bit and get onto the important part, The Testing of the Wedding Cake.

Taste testing, or something like this?
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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Because cheese is the single finest foodstuff in existence.

Wrong. CHOCOLATE is. Cheese and bread are tied for second. German bread, that is. Various other breads make a close third.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Stercus Tauri
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
(Philistine)

I've never understood the appeal of cheese after a meal. Fruit, yes. Some sickly sweet dessert, oh god, yes [pardonne-moi, la vie en rouge]. But cheese? Clearly missing something.

(/Philistine)

You really don't need these complicated meals that I am sure people only pretend to like. For a simple, happy life, well aged cheese, a fresh baguette and cheap red wine are all I need. For special occasions, which I am sure could include weddings, there are variations, such as Stilton and a good ale, or Shropshire blue and an Islay whisky.

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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)

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Leorning Cniht
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quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
For a simple, happy life, well aged cheese, a fresh baguette and cheap red wine are all I need.

Let's qualify that "cheap" just a little: there is a minimum quality below which you really don't want to dip. Whether the "cheap" wine falls above or below that line rather depends on where you are.
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Because cheese is the single finest foodstuff in existence.

Wrong. CHOCOLATE is. Cheese and bread are tied for second. German bread, that is. Various other breads make a close third.
Nope. If I never ate chocolate again it'd be a formidable hardship, and I'd expect a good few millenia off of Purgatory for it, but giving up cheese should be enough to pluck a soul from Hell itself.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
For a simple, happy life, well aged cheese, a fresh baguette and cheap red wine are all I need.

Let's qualify that "cheap" just a little: there is a minimum quality below which you really don't want to dip. Whether the "cheap" wine falls above or below that line rather depends on where you are.
Sooner cheap wine than rubbish beer. Cheap wine is still wine. Rubbish beer (often no cheaper, weirdly) is fizzy widdle.

Assuming the wine is red, of course. White, God alone knows.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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You will get my soft white wedding cake with piles of icing when you pry it from my cold, dead hand

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Jane R
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No, cliffdweller, it's fine - I don't actually want your white wedding cake. In fact, you can have my share of it as well.

People who think cheap red wine is drinkable have obviously *never* tasted genuine French vin ordinaire. Mislabelled paint-stripper.

[ 24. October 2017, 14:18: Message edited by: Jane R ]

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Doc Tor
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No, hang on. Traditionally, you serve the good stuff first, then bring out the paint stripper. It's in the Bible so it must be the right way to do it.

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Forward the New Republic

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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032

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quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
(Philistine)

I've never understood the appeal of cheese after a meal. Fruit, yes. Some sickly sweet dessert, oh god, yes [pardonne-moi, la vie en rouge]. But cheese? Clearly missing something.

(/Philistine)

I've been reading a couple of novels ranging through the period of late 1800s to 1920s, in England. And noticed significant references to an apparently 'normal' habit of having omelettes served after dessert, cheese in preference to oyster!

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Jane R
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# 331

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Doc Tor:
quote:
Traditionally, you serve the good stuff first, then bring out the paint stripper. It's in the Bible so it must be the right way to do it.

But the whole point of that story was that Jesus gave the good stuff to people who were too drunk to notice, so that means that you should serve the worst wine first.
Posts: 3934 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Doc Tor:
quote:
Traditionally, you serve the good stuff first, then bring out the paint stripper. It's in the Bible so it must be the right way to do it.

But the whole point of that story was that Jesus gave the good stuff to people who were too drunk to notice, so that means that you should serve the worst wine first.
Only if Jesus and His Mother are among the guests.

[Biased]

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Doc Tor:
quote:
Traditionally, you serve the good stuff first, then bring out the paint stripper. It's in the Bible so it must be the right way to do it.

But the whole point of that story was that Jesus gave the good stuff to people who were too drunk to notice, so that means that you should serve the worst wine first.
Only if Jesus and His Mother are among the guests.

[Biased]

No, no, quite the reverse-- when Jesus is there we save the best for last. Jesus always brings the good stuff.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Doc Tor:
quote:
Traditionally, you serve the good stuff first, then bring out the paint stripper. It's in the Bible so it must be the right way to do it.

But the whole point of that story was that Jesus gave the good stuff to people who were too drunk to notice, so that means that you should serve the worst wine first.
Ah, but they did notice. Not just because it was a reverse of the usual, but because the vintage that Jesus served was better than the good stuff the steward knew that he'd served first.

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Forward the New Republic

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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331

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Well, I was assuming the steward was the only one who was still sober...
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Stercus Tauri
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# 16668

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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
For a simple, happy life, well aged cheese, a fresh baguette and cheap red wine are all I need.

Let's qualify that "cheap" just a little: there is a minimum quality below which you really don't want to dip. Whether the "cheap" wine falls above or below that line rather depends on where you are.
We could probably have a new thread on this topic... However, I do have strong feelings about cheap wine and am not convinced that there's a strong correlation between price and quality. Extreme cheapness is grounds for suspicion, of course, but long ago, it was buying and drinking wine that finally made me understand the meaning of the law of diminishing returns.

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Because cheese is the single finest foodstuff in existence.

Wrong. CHOCOLATE is. Cheese and bread are tied for second. German bread, that is. Various other breads make a close third.
Yes, re chocolate. Very dark, possibly Ghirardellis's, or some sourish Belgian stuff. 2nd would be thin-crust, "kitchen sink" (some of everything) pizza--and, in a favorite American tradition, cold and leftover for breakfast!
[Cool]

Re German bread: Do you mean black bread (schwarz broet), the really heavy stuff in square loaves? It's good; but it's hard to eat much, because it's so heavy.

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--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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the best cheese is much better than the best chocolate.

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Human

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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Concerning bread, elaboration is necessary.

There's a time for pumpernickel, a time for baguettes, a time for wuppertaler a time for sourdough, a time for brioche a time for ciabatta, a time for whole wheat and a time for rye.

There's a time for unleavened breads, naan naan naan; a time for large pita breads, naan naan naan; and a time for a tortilla baked in the sun.

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Human

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
(Philistine)

I've never understood the appeal of cheese after a meal. Fruit, yes. Some sickly sweet dessert, oh god, yes [pardonne-moi, la vie en rouge]. But cheese? Clearly missing something.

(/Philistine)

Because cheese is the single finest foodstuff in existence.
Seconded. Dorset Blue Vinney, a good Wensleydale, Pont l'Eveque and that French one with the straw down the middle rolled in ash. Just don't have too much.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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I'm reasonably certain that there's no such thing as "too much cheese".

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Forward the New Republic

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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There is definitely such a thing as too much fondue, but on the plus side it gives you some very spacey dreams.

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Human

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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:

Re German bread: Do you mean black bread (schwarz broet), the really heavy stuff in square loaves?

and Semmeln oder Brötchen, Landbrot, Fünfkornbrot, Katenbrot....

quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
the best cheese is much better than the best chocolate.

Ordinarily, I would be arraigning your stay in the looney bin, but Cheese and Bread are so very good that your MISTAKE in the order of importance can be overlooked.

For now.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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