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Source: (consider it) Thread: Mansplaining
rolyn
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# 16840

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quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
And your explanation for aggressive driving by men is ?

They're wankers

[ 01. October 2017, 10:24: Message edited by: rolyn ]

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Gee D
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While driving? Surely it's both hands on the wheel.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
And your explanation for aggressive driving by men is ?

They're wankers
I see gender is not really quired for this explanation in the way it is for aggressive women drivers - why is that ?

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19156 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
North East Quine

Curious beastie
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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
How was driving in 2002 a "man's domain" in the industrialised west rolyn ?

IME, when a mixed-sex couple drives somewhere, it is significantly more common for the man to drive. Women driving cars is normal, of course. Women driving a car with an adult man in the passenger's seat are fairly rare on roads around here.
My husband and I are equally competent drivers. But I am much better at being a passenger than him. I think this is true of many couples.
[Biased]

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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Gold, NEQ, pure gold.

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
I feel for you in your dilemma, Cliffdweller. My father-in-law is a mansplainer extraordinaire, which is frequently face-meltingly frustrating, particularly given that he's a completely lovely person and in no way a chauvinist pig. His wife (i.e.: my mother-in-law) is basically a genius, who speaks a completely ridiculous number of languages. I'm guessing they've evolved a sort of symbiosis over time - she accepts being mansplained to and says 'yes dear' a great deal, he is the acknowledged expert on anything practical, and all his bustling the place around affords her more time to sit and read books. This is all in great contrast to my own father, several years gone now, who strutted around being all 'head of the household' (in theory) while my much more practical mother actually ran the show. Despite absolutely decrying feminism, (in theory) he'll have my eternal gratitude for always engaging with me as just another person, no more, no less, whenever we sparred over some issue, which was very frequently, to our mutual satisfaction. God, I miss him.

This made me smile

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Hiro's Leap

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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Heading towards me, hogging the road and expecting me to make way would often be an aggressive overcompensatory female.

I wouldn't want to rule this out entirely, but it strikes me as much more likely that there's a cognitive bias here: some female drivers stood out as particularly aggressive because you didn't expect them to be.
quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
My father-in-law is a mansplainer extraordinaire, which is frequently face-meltingly frustrating, particularly given that he's a completely lovely person and in no way a chauvinist pig.

Part of the issue IMO is that there's a heavy social pressure on men to prove themselves useful in some way. This is a pressure applied by other men as well as by women: guys with skills and ambition* traditionally win respect and perhaps love; those who lack them have a rough time. From the perspective of the tribe, since men can't give birth they have to find a way to prove they're not a waste of resources.

A major way for men to show their value is to demonstrate domain knowledge, hence mansplaining.

[* Not necessarily to do with wealth.]
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
This made me smile

Me too.

[ 01. October 2017, 13:20: Message edited by: Hiro's Leap ]

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simontoad
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Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
This made me smile

me three

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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rolyn
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quote:
Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Heading towards me, hogging the road and expecting me to make way would often be an aggressive overcompensatory female.

I wouldn't want to rule this out entirely, but it strikes me as much more likely that there's a cognitive bias here: some female drivers stood out as particularly aggressive because you didn't expect them to be.
There is probably truth in there.
The hidden narrative in my head being that women drivers should approach in modest vehicles at modest speed. Having encountered me coming the other way, slowdown or stop, then offer kindly acknowledgment that I have reversed or got in the ditch to make room.

The real beef used to come from the occasions when passing places were gleefully ignored despite it being obvious that to continue made blockage inevitable. And yes men are inclined do it as well, but then like you say I expect that.
Closing footnote being this driver is not himself blameless at having pissed off other road users.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Penny S
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Over many years I have held that when two cars meet in a single track road it is the woman driver (me) who has to reverse, even downhill, when the Highway code stipulates priority runs the other way. Only once has a driver given way - a farmer south of Minehead.
But lately, I have found that women driving suspiciously clean large supposedly off roadish vehicles are behaving that way. I have seen one force a police car to reverse downhill out of their way! And as for gaps, they have to maintain a gap of at least a foot between their nearside and the hedge. While my little Skoda has to risk the vegetation (which is, granted, a risk, since hedging is now down by flails which leave arm thick branch ends hidden by later growth). And those women, being higher up, never make eye contact, or acknowledge with a hand gesture one's politeness.

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
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I learnt to drive on country tarmac. I am well versed in a wide range of hand gestures.

Including the one that means, "there is a passing place right behind you. And yes, I can wait all day for you to realise that."

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Forward the New Republic

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
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Have you thought about pulling out a book [Smile]

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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mr cheesy
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quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Over many years I have held that when two cars meet in a single track road it is the woman driver (me) who has to reverse, even downhill, when the Highway code stipulates priority runs the other way. Only once has a driver given way - a farmer south of Minehead.
But lately, I have found that women driving suspiciously clean large supposedly off roadish vehicles are behaving that way. I have seen one force a police car to reverse downhill out of their way! And as for gaps, they have to maintain a gap of at least a foot between their nearside and the hedge. While my little Skoda has to risk the vegetation (which is, granted, a risk, since hedging is now down by flails which leave arm thick branch ends hidden by later growth). And those women, being higher up, never make eye contact, or acknowledge with a hand gesture one's politeness.

I think the problem is that single-track roads are difficult and that the highway code doesn't really help in many situations.

Most sensible people will reverse if they're closest to a passing space - but there are certainly an increasing number of people who refuse or are not able to reverse. When I used to drive minibuses in the lanes of Devon and Cornwall, I've seen people get out of cars and allow others to reverse their car for them..

If one adds in a hill and a bend plus inexperienced drivers in those conditions, then the difficulty is multiplied.

According to the Highway Code, one might supposedly have the right of way going up a hill, but the reality might also be that that's actually more difficult if the road is bending steeply downhill.

That's not dismissing what you are saying - these lanes seem to attract some idiots - but it is also to say that it isn't easy.

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arse

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Boogie

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Thanks for splaining that mr cheesy [Razz]

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Garden. Room. Walk

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mr cheesy
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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Thanks for splaining that mr cheesy [Razz]

Yeah, sorry I did it again.

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arse

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Penny S
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I realise that I did not make it sufficiently clear that until the advent of the SUV women, it was always men who made me reverse. And who had just passed the passing places.
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jbohn
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
I wonder if we can add Mumsplaining to the list?

Take a crying baby into a public place and sooner or later a woman of a certain age will feel it necessary to impart the benefit of her immense wisdom:

'Do you think he could be hungry?'

GOSH I DIDN'T KNOW YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO FEED THEM I THOUGHT THEY JUST PHOTOSYNTHESISED IN THE SUNLIGHT

This. A million and two times this. For the love of God.

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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard

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Rosa Winkel

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I've had younger mothers giving me their wisdom about parenting. Younger mothers with less children than me. With one child who is over 1.5 years younger than my youngest child.

Still, it's the senior women who offer me advice/look suspiciously at me when I'm out with my child/children more or less every day.

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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project

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Amos

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'Fewer children' please.

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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken

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Ricardus
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In fairness new mothers get this sort of Terribly Helpful Advice as well. A friend of ours gave birth to a boy with an exceptionally thick head of hair that grew like, er, one of those creeping plants that grows really quickly. An astonishing number of people, not even close friends or family, felt the need to tell her (not even advise her) that she ought to get it cut.

All sorts of older women seem to want to talk to my wife about Getting Him Into A Routine. I assume that someone in about 1960 decided that Getting Them Into A Routine was the key to solving all childhood's mysteries, because obviously before the discovery of Routines all children were maladjusted psychopaths and since that date children have had no problems whatsoever.

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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
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Not sure if it's manplaining or what, but when I see kids malfunctioning, my tendency is to merely be friendly, such as ask if help's needed. Which is the scenario when mum has babe in arms and the toddler is upset and both kiddies are crying or perhaps toddler angry. A question like "what do we think we could do to help your mum here?" is my typical.

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Maybe I should stop to consider that I'm not worthy of an epiphany and just take what life has to offer
(formerly was just "no prophet") \_(ツ)_/

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Rossweisse

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quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
'Fewer children' please.

(Thank you, Amos.)

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I'm not dead yet.

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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
I realise that I did not make it sufficiently clear that until the advent of the SUV women, it was always men who made me reverse. And who had just passed the passing places.

Are SUV women a new breed?

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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M.
Ship's Spare Part
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Mousethief, yes. They're the older versions of the young women who elbow me out of the way to get to the empty seat on the underground in the mornings.

I'm not quite decrepit enough yet to need to sit down, but it would be nice if they didn't positively elbow me out of the way.

Chelsea tractor woman is utterly terrifying in her complete self-centredness.

M.

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Erroneous Monk
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It sometimes seems like my whole working life has been one long meeting with a white man telling me about his Great New Plan for how we're going to do Something I've Quietly Been Getting On With For Years.

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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.

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jbohn
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quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
'Fewer children' please.

(Thank you, Amos.)
I wasn't sure if that was a correction, or a request. [Biased]

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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard

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Nenya
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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I don't think us females always help the situation.

I do the AV at Church, and I'm good at it. One bloke loves to tell me how to do stuff I was doing ten years ago (it's all new to him). What do I do? I kindly listen and 'learn'.

A bit like fake orgasms, it's the easier route [Roll Eyes]

[Killing me]

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They told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn.

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Golden Key
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cliffdweller and others--

You might find it helpful, funny, and/or a relief to give out some of these (McPhee).
[Two face]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
'Fewer children' please.

(Thank you, Amos.)
I wasn't sure if that was a correction, or a request. [Biased]
Neither. It's "look how much more educated than you I am" superior pedantry. Cut it out.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
'Fewer children' please.

(Thank you, Amos.)
I wasn't sure if that was a correction, or a request. [Biased]
Neither. It's "look how much more educated than you I am" superior pedantry. Cut it out.
I am sorry your glass is so empty. I thought it was an attempt at humour.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Rossweisse

High Church Valkyrie
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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Neither. It's "look how much more educated than you I am" superior pedantry. Cut it out.

Wow. I thought it was an attempt to make it easier to read comments on the board by encouraging the use of the right words to say what you mean. It's not pedantry at all.

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I'm not dead yet.

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quetzalcoatl
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I thought it was a brilliant postmodern joke, by demonstrating how to be priggish and patronizing, or really, peoplesplaining.

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no path

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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grammarsplaining - the internet is full of it [Razz]

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Garden. Room. Walk

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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740

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The world is full of it. I used to teach linguistics, and got tired of arguments with people about correctness. It's correct because, er, er, my primary school teacher taught it to me.

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no path

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Rossweisse

High Church Valkyrie
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No, it's correct because words have specific meanings, and those meanings matter.

Well, they matter to some of us, at least.

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I'm not dead yet.

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
grammarsplaining - the internet is full of it [Razz]

Yes.

I have a dyslexic son. You may think you are helping but you are being a jerk. That apostrophe can remain in the wrong place, it doesn't matter.

STOP IT.

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Fearfully and wonderfully mad

ن
blog

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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740

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quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
No, it's correct because words have specific meanings, and those meanings matter.

Well, they matter to some of us, at least.

<runs off screaming into the distance, anything but grammar fascism, even a Theresa May speech would be better than this>

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no path

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
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quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
No, it's correct because words have specific meanings, and those meanings matter.

Well, they matter to some of us, at least.

Which gives you licence to abuse dyslexics.

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Fearfully and wonderfully mad

ن
blog

Posts: 8684 | From: Somewhere else | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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I am dyslexic and I work hard all the time with spelling and grammar. Some mistakes still slip by and always will. But the grammar/spelling police are ever prowling ...

🐺 🐺 🐺

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Garden. Room. Walk

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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I am dyslexic and I work hard all the time with spelling and grammar. Some mistakes still slip by and always will. But the grammar/spelling police are ever prowling ...

🐺 🐺 🐺

I think it's correcting other people's speech and language that gets me madder and madder. It's knobbish, especially when it's the tired old chestnuts, don't begin a sentence with and and so on. Fuck off.

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no path

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Rossweisse

High Church Valkyrie
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quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
Which gives you licence to abuse dyslexics.

Wow. That's an amazing stretch.

quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Fuck off.

Well, bless your heart.

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I'm not dead yet.

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Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
'Fewer children' please.

This is why a thread about mansplaining on the "Ship of Fools," is so amusing. There are so many teachers, pastors and doctors it's like a convention of natural born 'splainers.
Posts: 6661 | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76

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quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Neither. It's "look how much more educated than you I am" superior pedantry. Cut it out.

Wow. I thought it was an attempt to make it easier to read comments on the board by encouraging the use of the right words to say what you mean. It's not pedantry at all.
Bullshit. Everyone knows what "less children" means. You don't make anything clearer by pedantically picking apart common usages.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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I'd go further and say that common usage is often the easiest to understand, and would deliberately use "less children" to prevent it sounding stilted.

Wrong, perhaps, but clear in meaning.

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Fearfully and wonderfully mad

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blog

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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Neither. It's "look how much more educated than you I am" superior pedantry. Cut it out.

Wow. I thought it was an attempt to make it easier to read comments on the board by encouraging the use of the right words to say what you mean. It's not pedantry at all.
Bullshit. Everyone knows what "less children" means.
Depends on context. Are we talking population or recipes?

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
It's "look how much more educated than you I am" superior pedantry. Cut it out.

Can't speak for anybody else, of course, but who died and made you the king of Hell, that you can tell people what to say and not say? Cut it out.

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
It's "look how much more educated than you I am" superior pedantry. Cut it out.

Can't speak for anybody else, of course, but who died and made you the king of Hell, that you can tell people what to say and not say? Cut it out.
Oooh, so now you're the guardian of the Hell ethos. Cut it out.


[Biased]

[ 05. October 2017, 01:47: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 16666 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Rossweisse

High Church Valkyrie
# 2349

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Bullshit. Everyone knows what "less children" means. You don't make anything clearer by pedantically picking apart common usages.

And bless your heart. I really have trouble reading phrasing like that without having to stop and think about what the writer means. You don't get any credit for lashing out at people who critique your lazy usage.

(And I wasn't even the Shipmate who posted the original correction...)

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I'm not dead yet.

Posts: 14648 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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Now come on everyone. This may be hell but there's no rule to say we can't be nice to one another.

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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OK I admit to not being a linguistics or grammar expert and these things have always confused me.

Fewer sounds better than less to me in the sentence "Younger mothers with less children than me."

Apparently it is correct to say "fewer" with plurals and numbers of things, "less" with abstracts.

But who created these rules and why?

Less money but fewer children. Less sheep sounds about the same as fewer sheep. Less cloud sounds better than fewer cloud (or fewer clouds). Less stars or fewer stars?

Seems to me this is a pretty elastic rule. If it doesn't really come naturally in speech and we can't really define why one thing is right or wrong, then maybe the rule is loosening or changing over time anyway..?

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arse

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