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Source: (consider it) Thread: Mansplaining
Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Bullshit. Everyone knows what "less children" means. You don't make anything clearer by pedantically picking apart common usages.

And bless your heart. I really have trouble reading phrasing like that without having to stop and think about what the writer means. You don't get any credit for lashing out at people who critique your lazy usage.

(And I wasn't even the Shipmate who posted the original correction...)

Think yourself lucky - some of us really have trouble reading anything at all and often have to go through things two or three times to be sure of the meaning. The worst of the lot is when people put no line breaks in text - but I see no ‘line breaks police’ around.

--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk

Posts: 12592 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
OK I admit to not being a linguistics or grammar expert and these things have always confused me.

Fewer sounds better than less to me in the sentence "Younger mothers with less children than me."

Apparently it is correct to say "fewer" with plurals and numbers of things, "less" with abstracts.

But who created these rules and why?

Less money but fewer children. Less sheep sounds about the same as fewer sheep. Less cloud sounds better than fewer cloud (or fewer clouds). Less stars or fewer stars?

Seems to me this is a pretty elastic rule. If it doesn't really come naturally in speech and we can't really define why one thing is right or wrong, then maybe the rule is loosening or changing over time anyway..?

Exactly. The fact that the self-appointed guardians of the language are so often putting people down over this shows it is the common usage, and therefore by definition correct.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17482 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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Sick beats, bro.

(In other news, the one thing I hate more than Illinois Nazis is Grammar Nazis.)

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Forward the New Republic

Posts: 8760 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

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I don't think the issue is about the acceptability of certain linguistic forms - I'm quite happy to sit and discuss that. It's about correcting other people's speech and language, which I find absurd and tacky.

It often sounds patronizing, which is why it comes up on a thread on mansplaining. And there is often the implication that I'm more educated, I don't speak an ignorant dialect or accent, (as with double negatives), or I'm not from the wrong side of the tracks, so I will now give you benefit of my superior knowledge.

Nobody would go around overtly criticizing people for their clothes or their hair, would they? But speech is just as intimate.

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no path

Posts: 9559 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged
Kittyville
Shipmate
# 16106

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I've hesitated to post this, but as a favour to the hosts to get the thread back on topic:

My best mansplain ever was a former boyfriend explaining the mechanics of menstruation to me - a process I had personally experienced about 250 times by that point.

I was briefly astonished at the time. Comedy gold, in retrospect.

Posts: 283 | From: Sydney | Registered: Dec 2010  |  IP: Logged
Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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Heh! It sounds like the poor dear was repeating what he had once been told and was still trying to get his head around it.
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Kittyville
Shipmate
# 16106

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I think he was genuinely trying to explain to me why I felt so shitty with cramps, but my face must have been a picture.
Posts: 283 | From: Sydney | Registered: Dec 2010  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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Yes, I know this is Hell, but bless him for trying, anyhoo...

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

Posts: 8869 | From: With The Glums At The Bus Stop | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Rosa Winkel

Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424

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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
'Fewer children' please.

This is why a thread about mansplaining on the "Ship of Fools," is so amusing. There are so many teachers, pastors and doctors it's like a convention of natural born 'splainers.
The church I used to attend in Chester was full of that, male and female, all of them teachers.

I did wonder about whether the correction of what I said was classist. I've experienced more classism from Christians than any other group I've been part of, people all ready to teach Eliza Doolittle here, putting me in my place. Still, I'm calling everything classist at the moment, and my underclassness (that word exists, since just now) is probably not known to anyone here, even those I'm friends with on Facebook. Still, classism is an element of Anglicanism at least, so let's have fewer of that class-splaining here.

Here's a rare smilie from me, just in case people think I'm writing this in capital letters in green ink: [Biased]

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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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GREEN INK!

Is Outrage!

Underlined twice, please, in RED ink - with a RULER!

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

Posts: 8869 | From: With The Glums At The Bus Stop | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:


Still, classism is an element of Anglicanism at least, so let's have fewer of that class-splaining here.


Thank you Rosa! I'm currently trying to 'splain that very thing to the people on my TV forum while talking about "Poldark." Demelza's very lower class brothers are newly minted Methodists and the reaction when they walked into the Poldark family's CofE church was not just due to their unkempt appearance. They were [shudder] talking about Jesus.
[Eek!]

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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And (IIRC) singing hymns before the Squire arrived for service!

[Eek!]

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

Posts: 8869 | From: With The Glums At The Bus Stop | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

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quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
'Fewer children' please.

This is why a thread about mansplaining on the "Ship of Fools," is so amusing. There are so many teachers, pastors and doctors it's like a convention of natural born 'splainers.
The church I used to attend in Chester was full of that, male and female, all of them teachers.

I did wonder about whether the correction of what I said was classist. I've experienced more classism from Christians than any other group I've been part of, people all ready to teach Eliza Doolittle here, putting me in my place. Still, I'm calling everything classist at the moment, and my underclassness (that word exists, since just now) is probably not known to anyone here, even those I'm friends with on Facebook. Still, classism is an element of Anglicanism at least, so let's have fewer of that class-splaining here.

Here's a rare smilie from me, just in case people think I'm writing this in capital letters in green ink: [Biased]

It can be based on class, but also on dialect, although of course, dialect intersects with class. Thus, Standard English could be said to be class-based.

But the dialect stuff comes up a lot in over-corrections. I remember furious rows over double negatives, which seem to be well-formed in some dialects, but not Standard English, speakers of which therefore declare double negatives to be 'incorrect'. Thankfully, linguistics has rid itself of such snobbery. Descriptive not prescriptive.

--------------------
no path

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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Not down hear, they don't - not never, not nohow.

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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(or not here even, nohow).

[Hot and Hormonal]

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

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Here, here.

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no path

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Rossweisse

High Church Valkyrie
# 2349

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
(or not here even, nohow). ...

I thought you were making a joke. No worries.

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I'm not dead yet.

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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Think yourself lucky - some of us really have trouble reading anything at all and often have to go through things two or three times to be sure of the meaning. The worst of the lot is when people put no line breaks in text - but I see no ‘line breaks police’ around.

This.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17732 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757

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If Grammar Nazis* irritate you, I've been developing a range of humane traps (harmful to them, but everyone else is unaffected.

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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)

Posts: 7117 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Is Outrage!

That will be five cents please.

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Think yourself lucky - some of us really have trouble reading anything at all and often have to go through things two or three times to be sure of the meaning. The worst of the lot is when people put no line breaks in text - but I see no ‘line breaks police’ around.

This.
No line breaks?

Ignore them and move on, I do.

--------------------
Fearfully and wonderfully mad
Love the dinner, hate the din.
ن
blog

Posts: 8699 | From: Somewhere else | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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My health problems (including CFIDS/ CFS/ ME) can cause "brain fog"--and yes, that's a technical term. My brain can check out; I can read something as meaning exactly the opposite from what it does; and I can get lost in long, densely-worded paragraphs.

If I wind up in the middle of that kind of paragraph, I'll usually go back, skim the beginning and end, and get the gist.

So if Shipmates remember to occasionally hit Enter/Return, their posts are much easier for many other people to read.

FWIW.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17732 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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Nah, it's not worth the hassle. Let them be ignored.

--------------------
Fearfully and wonderfully mad
Love the dinner, hate the din.
ن
blog

Posts: 8699 | From: Somewhere else | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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If I see a big chunk of text with no paragraph breaks, I just scroll by. It's too hard to read, and the writer is too rude to think about others' needs.

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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Mansplainers be stupid.

[ 12. October 2017, 20:04: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 16726 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Mr Clingford
Shipmate
# 7961

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Mansplainers be stupid.

It doesn't help that Mrs Landis gets wrong the chronological order of the 2 Heston films and that confuses the tweeter.

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Ne'er cast a clout till May be out.

If only.

Posts: 1643 | From: A Fleeting moment | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
churchgeek

Have candles, will pray
# 5557

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When I was living in the SF Bay Area, I got so sick of San Franciscans telling me "what happened to Detroit" that I coined my own term, Sanfransplaining. Just for that one purpose.

The most common reason was that Detroit was too stupid to diversify its industries. Of course, those of us who know Detroit history know that our industries were diverse. Just, a lot of them fled when the going started getting tough. Like capitalists often do. Greener pastures. Well, in this case, whiter. (Caucasian, that is.)

I started just enjoying telling them I intended to return to Detroit. Very patronizingly, they'd say, "Oh, it's home, right?" [Roll Eyes]

--------------------
I reserve the right to change my mind.

My article on the Virgin of Vladimir

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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Mansplainers be stupid.

It doesn't help that Mrs Landis gets wrong the chronological order of the 2 Heston films and that confuses the tweeter.
But that is irrelevant. She designed the costume. She sat in the theatre with Spielberg watching Secret of the Incas. The Greatest Show on Earth is not the film that inspired the Indiana Jones costume regardless of when it was made.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 16726 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76

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I did coin the term Saisbonio* to describe the phenomenon of an Englishman telling a Welshman why he's wrong about Wales, Welsh culture or the language.

*From Sais - Englishman, and Esbonio, to explain.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17482 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I did coin the term Saisbonio* to describe the phenomenon of an Englishman telling a Welshman why he's wrong about Wales, Welsh culture or the language.

*From Sais - Englishman, and Esbonio, to explain.

In the Welsh Assembly that's simple known as "Neil Hamilton"

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arse

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Mr Clingford
Shipmate
# 7961

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Mansplainers be stupid.

It doesn't help that Mrs Landis gets wrong the chronological order of the 2 Heston films and that confuses the tweeter.
But that is irrelevant. She designed the costume. She sat in the theatre with Spielberg watching Secret of the Incas. The Greatest Show on Earth is not the film that inspired the Indiana Jones costume regardless of when it was made.
No, it is relevant, but of rather lower priority to the fact that she was actually there.

--------------------
Ne'er cast a clout till May be out.

If only.

Posts: 1643 | From: A Fleeting moment | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Mansplainers be stupid.

It doesn't help that Mrs Landis gets wrong the chronological order of the 2 Heston films and that confuses the tweeter.
But that is irrelevant. She designed the costume. She sat in the theatre with Spielberg watching Secret of the Incas. The Greatest Show on Earth is not the film that inspired the Indiana Jones costume regardless of when it was made.
No, it is relevant, but of rather lower priority to the fact that she was actually there.
Dios mío. [Roll Eyes] Really dude? Mansplain me how?

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 16726 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Mr Clingford
Shipmate
# 7961

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Mansplainers be stupid.

It doesn't help that Mrs Landis gets wrong the chronological order of the 2 Heston films and that confuses the tweeter.
But that is irrelevant. She designed the costume. She sat in the theatre with Spielberg watching Secret of the Incas. The Greatest Show on Earth is not the film that inspired the Indiana Jones costume regardless of when it was made.
No, it is relevant, but of rather lower priority to the fact that she was actually there.
Dios mío. [Roll Eyes] Really dude? Mansplain me how?
Playing the 'mansplain me' card here doesn't change things. The tweeter should have accepted what Mrs Landis said. Straight up. Absolutely. No argument. But she did get her facts wrong in stating that Harry Steele came first. But the tweeter was an idiot for arguing with Mrs Landis about which film was the inspiration.

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Ne'er cast a clout till May be out.

If only.

Posts: 1643 | From: A Fleeting moment | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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The Jeopardy “answer” was
quote:
Charlton Heston’s wardrobe in the 1954 film “Secret of the Incas” inspired the clothes worn by this adventurous character 27 years later.
The order of the movies’ release is irrelevant to that.

[ 15. October 2017, 14:02: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 16726 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Mr Clingford
Shipmate
# 7961

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
The Jeopardy “answer” was
quote:
Charlton Heston’s wardrobe in the 1954 film “Secret of the Incas” inspired the clothes worn by this adventurous character 27 years later.
The order of the movies’ release is irrelevant to that.
Indeed.

--------------------
Ne'er cast a clout till May be out.

If only.

Posts: 1643 | From: A Fleeting moment | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
The Intrepid Mrs S
Shipmate
# 17002

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Can I raise my head above the parapet and coin the term 'mansuming' here?

I adore my Mazda MX-5 (low-slung two-seater frankly sports car, for those of you who really aren't interested in cars) but on at least three occasions, having watched me get out of the driver's seat and pocket the keys, men have rushed up to my male passenger with delighted cries of 'How long have you had the Mazda/is the folding metal roof the way to go/what sort of mpg do you get?' and the like [Mad]

Nearly as bad as 'and have you got a little car of your own, then?' or when we are on a sailing holiday, men mansuming that Mr S is the skipper and I the galley slave. Au contraire - Mr S fulfils the vital roles of brute force, ignorance and navigation while I look after the bits of cloth and string, as befits someone of the feminine persuasion [Mad]

Mrs. S, spluttering indignantly

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Don't get your knickers in a twist over your advancing age. It achieves nothing and makes you walk funny.
Prayer should be our first recourse, not our last resort
'Lord, please give us patience. NOW!'

Posts: 1358 | From: Neither here nor there | Registered: Mar 2012  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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You may indeed. It will cover a multitude of sins.

--------------------
Forward the New Republic

Posts: 8760 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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quote:
Originally posted by The Intrepid Mrs S:
Can I raise my head above the parapet and coin the term 'mansuming' here?

Years ago an appliance installer asked me where my husband kept his tools. (I was married at the time, but most of the tools belonged to me -- from before our marriage.)

--------------------
Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

Posts: 9348 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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I could tell you of female astronomers who listen patiently as men explain planetary orbits to them. Women with PhDs in medieval history who are assumed, by men, to need to be informed who Richard III was. There are many examples, some quite famous.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Lyda*Rose

Ship's broken porthole
# 4544

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One of my favorite exchanges in a movie was fron "Shadowlands":
quote:
Effete Oxford twerp- "This is how I explain the otherwise puzzling differences between the sexes… where men have intellect, women have a soul."

Joy Gresham- "As you say, Professor Reilly, I’m from the United States and different cultures have different modes of discourse… are you trying to be offensive or just merely stupid?"

[Overused]

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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano

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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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Lyda--

[Killing me]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17732 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
jbohn
Shipmate
# 8753

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I once had the sublime experience of standing on deck aboard a schooner, listening to a man with a degree in Physics explain to the captain of said schooner how tacking into the wind isn't actually possible - while she was doing it... [Ultra confused]

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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard

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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
I once had the sublime experience of standing on deck aboard a schooner, listening to a man with a degree in Physics explain to the captain of said schooner how tacking into the wind isn't actually possible - while she was doing it... [Ultra confused]

He probably believes that bees can't fly either. [brick wall]
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RooK

1 of 6
# 1852

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quote:
Originally posted by The Intrepid Mrs S:
I adore my Mazda MX-5

[respect]
Do you happen to read Jalopnik?

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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
quote:
Originally posted by The Intrepid Mrs S:
I adore my Mazda MX-5

[respect]
Do you happen to read Jalopnik?

I like Jalopnik, but say he's got it wrong. The Toyota MR2 Roadster/Sypder is all that and mid-engine.
Though, the new MX-5s are beautiful motors.
The idea of gender for cars is rubbish anyway.
Mrs.S: Next time you see a sexist bellend like that, challenge him and blow his doors off.

[ 19. October 2017, 16:34: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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RooK

1 of 6
# 1852

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I like Jalopnik, but say he's got it wrong.

Well, obviously. Though not as wrong as you. Until recently, the answer to everything was "Porsche 911". Now the truth must be admitted that the answer to everything is "electric drive". I dream of a future when we reach utopia: "Electric drive Porsche 911-esque".
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I like Jalopnik, but say he's got it wrong.

Well, obviously. Though not as wrong as you. Until recently, the answer to everything was "Porsche 911". Now the truth must be admitted that the answer to everything is "electric drive". I dream of a future when we reach utopia: "Electric drive Porsche 911-esque".
Well, an electric Porsche will result in fewer over-priced parts to pay for, so that is a plus.
Electric, really? I though we were talking about cars and driving.
[Disappointed]

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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Get a room, you two.

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Forward the New Republic

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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
I once had the sublime experience of standing on deck aboard a schooner, listening to a man with a degree in Physics explain to the captain of said schooner how tacking into the wind isn't actually possible - while she was doing it... [Ultra confused]

[Smile]

There was a long-ago episode of either "Love Boat" or "Love, American Style" where this smart guy meets up with a *stereotypical* dumb, beautiful blonde on a cruise. He tries to teach her stuff, she simpers stupidly. Then, at the end of the cruise, she pipes up to correct him on something. When he freaks out, she explains that she was tired of guys who were turned off by her brain. IIRC, she was an astrophysicist.

They got together.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17732 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
RooK

1 of 6
# 1852

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Well, an electric Porsche will result in fewer over-priced parts to pay for, so that is a plus.
Electric, really? I though we were talking about cars and driving.

Oh, I see. You've never had the Porsche experience. Or a real electric drive experience. That's the only explanation I can see for the massive bout of carsplaining you're begging for.

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Get a room, you two.

But... I'm lazy.
#Hellsplaining

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